For the love of hoops (USA team review)

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for the love of hoops

var sByline = "Robert Windrem|NBC News Investigative Producer (and hoops fan)|rwindrem.jpg"; var aByline = sByline.split("|"); document.write("Posted by "+aByline[0]+", "+aByline[1]+" (11:56 am ET, 09/ 1/06)

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"); } Posted by Robert Windrem, NBC News Investigative Producer (and hoops fan) (11:56 am ET, 09/ 1/06)


The basketball boards around the Internet are buzzing today with anger and confusion. American fans are in a deep funk about the U.S. loss to Greece in the semifinals. "Greece!" they say. "Greece? They don’t play basketball in GREECE!"
Oh yes, they do.
Greece is the reigning European champion and their teams in the Euroleague -- world’s second-best professional league after the NBA -- are always among the top five.
But the posters and bloggers analyzing and criticizing are all in denial, if you ask me.
Team USA finished sixth in the worlds in Indianapolis in 2002; third in the Olympics in Athens in 2004; and probably fourth in the worlds in Tokyo in 2006. What is it about the end of U.S. dominance in basketball that you don't understand?
The U.S. produces the best individual players (for now), but they cannot play team basketball as well as the Europeans. Or the South Americans! The 2002 team had George Karl as coach, the 2004 team had Larry Brown, the 2006 team has Mike Krzyzewksi. Those are among the best coaches in U.S. hoops history. They and the players are simply not good enough and one reason may be that the players think they can rely on their raw athleticism and reputation. They can't. Not anymore.
This is not the 1992 Olympics in Barcelona. This is not about whether LeBron James holds the ball too long either, or that Chris Paul never played in a big game before in his life, both of which may be true but are irrelevant. This is about the world catching and passing the U.S. in the elements of the game that count the most: TEAM play on both sides of the ball, fundamentals, outside shooting to complement the inside game. And coaching.
My favorite line delivered by those most in denial -- and ignorance -- is: "Well, they couldn't beat the NBA Champs! We should send the NBA champs every year!" The problem is that, increasingly, the NBA champs are dependent on international players. The Heat didn’t have any significant international players this year but the most successful NBA franchise over the past decade has been the San Antonio Spurs, winning in 1999, 2003, and 2005.
The Spurs' point guard is from France -- Tony Parker. Their shooting guard is from Argentina -- Manu Ginobili, and their best player and power forward, Tim Duncan, may have played his college ball at Wake Forest, but he learned the game in his native Virgin Islands, not a hotbed of b-ball.
The Suns' Steve Nash of Canada, Boris Diaw of France, Leandro Barbosa of Brazil, and Raja Bell of the Virgin Islands all averaged 14 points a game this year or better -- and their training camp this year will be held in Treviso, Italy!
The Mavs would be nothing without Dirk Nowitzki of Germany. Role players like Desagana Diop of Senegal are also critical to the Dallas success. For most of last year, Mark Cuban had players from Senegal, Russia, Germany, Guyana, and Congo on his payroll.
The Nets, who had the first international superstar in Drazen Petrovic of Croatia, didn't have an international player for years after his death. They now have three -- a starter, Nenad Krstic, a bench player, Bostjan Nachbar, and a rookie, Mile Ilic -- all from the Balkans. They have an international scouting director who is Dutch and has spent the last two weeks in northern Nigeria scouting teenagers!
And we haven't even mentioned China yet. A nation with 500 million self-professed basketball fans -- which some months produces more revenue for the NBA than the U.S. -- has only one player in the NBA. How long will that last? You think it's impossible that sometime in the next 30 years that the NBA commissioner will speak Mandarin--and carry a Chinese passport? I wouldn't bet on it.
This year, one out of every five NBA players held a foreign passport. By 2010, the next world championship, the number will be one out of three if trends continue. Be prepared for more surprises as time passes.
It's not about "fixing" Team USA to assure U.S. dominance of the game invented in Springfield, Mass. (by a Canadian). It's about understanding that the world loves the game and embracing it.
 
there is a very subtle twist here. the guy flames american bball without doing so for the nba itself. a player's certificate of excellence is his presence in the nba. very clever. he fails, however, to state that the entire greek team had no one playing in the nba. the real problem for the nba would be when a basketball league elsewhere got more hype. i don't think that will happen any time soon.
 
there is a very subtle twist here. the guy flames american bball without doing so for the nba itself. a player's certificate of excellence is his presence in the nba. very clever. he fails, however, to state that the entire greek team had no one playing in the nba. the real problem for the nba would be when a basketball league elsewhere got more hype. i don't think that will happen any time soon.

It will happen when some other league starts to get more money rolling into it, and when the talent begins to step up in it as well...compare soccer in the USA and the rest of the world.
 
It will happen when some other league starts to get more money rolling into it, and when the talent begins to step up in it as well...compare soccer in the USA and the rest of the world.

as far as i know, the russian maffia now found an alternative to soccer to cleanse some dirty money: basketball. the russian basketball league has either become or is on the verge of becoming the most expensive league in europe. but due to low quality of life, especially for players' wives, they don't expect the russian craze to take over. and soccer will not let go its premier status.

as for soccer in the usa, i am not really getting it. soccer is also different from basketball; it is, for most, a way of life. however, it has gotten so low, i just despise any soccer related news.
 
i think that team usa, with the right makeup could dominate... or at least win. problem is the makeup. they talked the talk, role players and team ball, but they didn't walk the walk.
 
It will happen when some other league starts to get more money rolling into it, and when the talent begins to step up in it as well...compare soccer in the USA and the rest of the world.

:confused: Soccer?
Terrible comparison, some of you guys are saying some goofy stuff, what'd you do stay up all night partying after the games? Has the US ever been dominant in soccer? Has the US ever even really cared much about soccer?
 
:confused: Soccer?
Terrible comparison, some of you guys are saying some goofy stuff, what'd you do stay up all night partying after the games? Has the US ever been dominant in soccer? Has the US ever even really cared much about soccer?

My point is that in terms of professional leagues, the NBA is on top for basketball because that's where the money is; not because the USA is inherently better at basketball because it's the USA. I was saying that if another league were to develope elsewhere in the world with equivalent star power and money and popularity, the NBA would have some real competition. I referred to soccer to compare the MLS and other premier soccer leagues in the world which are much more popular than the MLS because of funding and star power.

The US dominance in basketball has ended. Once you realize that fact, you'll be better able to get back on top.
 
:confused: Soccer?
Terrible comparison, some of you guys are saying some goofy stuff, what'd you do stay up all night partying after the games? Has the US ever been dominant in soccer? Has the US ever even really cared much about soccer?
The United States will never be dominant in soccer, and maybe not even competitive. And one big reason why is, unlike in many other countries, the best athletes in the United States don't play soccer.

If you grew up in Manchester and you're between 6'0" and 6'3" and have blazing speed, you might have the dream to grow up and play for United. If you grew up in the Oakland, you probably wanted to play for the Raiders. If you're 6'6" and you grew up in Niedersachsen, you might have grown up wanting to play for Bremen. If you're 6'6" in Chicago, you grew up wanting to be like Mike.
 
The United States will never be dominant in soccer, and maybe not even competitive. And one big reason why is, unlike in many other countries, the best athletes in the United States don't play soccer.

If you grew up in Manchester and you're between 6'0" and 6'3" and have blazing speed, you might have the dream to grow up and play for United. If you grew up in the Oakland, you probably wanted to play for the Raiders. If you're 6'6" and you grew up in Niedersachsen, you might have grown up wanting to play for Bremen. If you're 6'6" in Chicago, you grew up wanting to be like Mike.

yep, it is a social/cultural thing. in europe, there is no love for other sports; it is all about soccer. i am pretty sure if, in a european country, people were asked to choose between winning the fiba world cup and winning the fifa world cup, the overwhelming majority would vote for the latter.
 
My point is that in terms of professional leagues, the NBA is on top for basketball because that's where the money is; not because the USA is inherently better at basketball because it's the USA. I was saying that if another league were to develope elsewhere in the world with equivalent star power and money and popularity, the NBA would have some real competition. I referred to soccer to compare the MLS and other premier soccer leagues in the world which are much more popular than the MLS because of funding and star power.

The US dominance in basketball has ended. Once you realize that fact, you'll be better able to get back on top.

Your explaination makes the comparison sound even worse.
 
The United States will never be dominant in soccer, and maybe not even competitive. And one big reason why is, unlike in many other countries, the best athletes in the United States don't play soccer.

If you grew up in Manchester and you're between 6'0" and 6'3" and have blazing speed, you might have the dream to grow up and play for United. If you grew up in the Oakland, you probably wanted to play for the Raiders. If you're 6'6" and you grew up in Niedersachsen, you might have grown up wanting to play for Bremen. If you're 6'6" in Chicago, you grew up wanting to be like Mike.

Then it is a real bad situation for the US, all those great atheletes want to play in the nba and these nba players are not able to get past the semi finals in so many attempts.
 
yep, it is a social/cultural thing. in europe, there is no love for other sports; it is all about soccer. i am pretty sure if, in a european country, people were asked to choose between winning the fiba world cup and winning the fifa world cup, the overwhelming majority would vote for the latter.
sorry to disagree, but americans think pretty much the same in that they love their own team sports and think its all about american team sports such as gridiron, basketball and to an extent baseball...

what about rugby? soccer?... not that popular there...

and the team sports the USA are really good at, with the exception of swimming (which other countries have caught up already), are the sports they created, which is pretty much the case with most countries, such as the uk with soccer or australia with rugby league..

and europe is not just one country and they do not think its all about soccer.... take lithuania for instance... sure they have a soccer team but to them its pretty much basketball that matters most...

i just think its wrong saying that europe is all about soccer when their not, when you should look at the USA and see what sports their most dominant in.. which is american team sports, which are hardly established worldwide, such as gridiron and even basketball, when comparing it to worldwide sports such as soccer...

that being said, i love my basketball and NBA! and it is my fav sport...
 
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Then it is a real bad situation for the US, all those great atheletes want to play in the nba and these nba players are not able to get past the semi finals in so many attempts.
Not sure what one thing has to do with the other, but whatever. That post was an explanation on why the US will never compete in soccer, not basketball; we're already competitive in basketball, and it won't take much more than a little discipline to make this team into champions again.

This was a learning experience for this team; unlike in '02, they weren't mailing it in, and unlike in '04, they weren't a mismatched collection of parts. If USAB keeps this same team together for Beijing, then they'll be better for what's happened in Saitama, and they don't win gold in '08, I'll be very surprised. The real indication of how committed this team is to improving will be seeing what they do in the '07 offseason.
 
after reading this thread and seeing how so many people are pointing to international basketball as a great model for team play, where can i follow the various national teams/leagues? i don't know much about international ball.
 
A good place to start would be http://www.fiba.com/

Right now they're touting the championships, of course, so click on the option under the lannguage choices that says "No thanks, take me to fiba.com"
 
after reading this thread and seeing how so many people are pointing to international basketball as a great model for team play, where can i follow the various national teams/leagues? i don't know much about international ball.

the european league games are not as entertaining as these tournaments, though.
 
i really have no idea where you can adress to see some european games but i just wanted to react to what twocents said
that's not right because some euroleagues games are really very exciting !
besides some games in "la liga" (spanish league) like Madrid versus Barcelona are also very good
 
i really have no idea where you can adress to see some european games but i just wanted to react to what twocents said
that's not right because some euroleagues games are really very exciting !
besides some games in "la liga" (spanish league) like Madrid versus Barcelona are also very good

some games do not make a full season of excitement. that is what i wanted to say.
 
well this is the problem right there then. we should get an international coach who knows the international game.

Perhaps, but international ball is largely irrelevant to most of the top American coaches.

The way to go might be to eventually quit pasting on top coaches the way we paste on top players, and just settle on one guy, with some international experience (like a D'Antoni or Donnie Nelson or Scott Skiles) and just have him be the permanent coach every year. Would start off with a good base of knowledge, and would add consistency year in and year oout.
 
Since the beginning I wondered if D'Antoni shouldn't have just been the head coach, rather than just an assistant.
 
i really have no idea where you can adress to see some european games but i just wanted to react to what twocents said
that's not right because some euroleagues games are really very exciting !
besides some games in "la liga" (spanish league) like Madrid versus Barcelona are also very good
usually it really comes down to the country though, when it comes to personal taste...

e.g. americans may find gridiron exciting, while another country may find it very very very boring becasue of soooo many stopages...
 
I think too much is made of the US losing this game leading to a loss in dominance. They got lolled to sleep. They blow out everyone then got beat by the first team that can play. If you watch the games in progression you will notice that the first few games showed a lot of passing and defense but the last one I watched it started looking like the fight to be the best player started to show through. Guys holding the ball and attempting to take over the game. They just lost team focus and started being me focused.

This team and original style of play would have won the whole thing but after a few blow out games our guys got cocky like they always do and we got beat. My example is with all the substitutions and star power we had, how could a player score over 25 points without a ridiculous %. The answer – jack up a bunch of shots and quit sharing the ball.

The end result – we get beat a better TEAM.
 
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