[Rumor] Fischer: Keon Ellis a popular name on the market but Kings also interested in extending him

Jdbraver137 said:
Kinda dumb to agree ahead of time. Things change so quickly.
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If Monk for Kuminga is the deal or they are two principals in a three team trade, why jeopardize it with a twisted ankle let alone something more serious? Anyone trading for Monk is doing it as part of a push for the playoffs this season and not so he's ready in 27-28 when they have a team together.
 
Playing Westbrook and Schroeder over Monk also makes sense if you, as the Kings powers that be (Perry, Christie, and per recent reports Sabonis), see Westbrook and Schroeder as point guards and Monk as not a point guard.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It does if Monk is already agreed to in a trade package that can't go through for another week.
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yeah, doesn't take rocket science to put this together. Kuminga last played on Dec 18th. "Coincidentally" Dec 18th is when Monk got his first DNP vs POR and since then:

POR-DNP
POR-DNP
HOU- 4:50
DET: 13:47
DAL: 19:00
LAL: 19:24
LAC: 11:06
BOS: 6:22
PHO: DNP
MIL: DNP
DAL: DNP

And I think he only got back in those games because LaVine was out and we just refuse to play Carter.

My guess is the principle of the deal is done. They're just seeing if there's anything to happen with Porter or Murphy where they have to tie in money from Sac to get it finished before the 15th. But you simply don't sit 2 very good rotation players in Monk/Kuminga for a month like they have for no reason.

As long as we aren't giving up FRP, Keon or Carter, I'll be good. Monk+1 or maybe 2 2nds to bring it home is solid for us
 
The_Jamal said:
yeah, doesn't take rocket science to put this together. Kuminga last played on Dec 18th. "Coincidentally" Dec 18th is when Monk got his first DNP vs POR and since then:

POR-DNP
POR-DNP
HOU- 4:50
DET: 13:47
DAL: 19:00
LAL: 19:24
LAC: 11:06
BOS: 6:22
PHO: DNP
MIL: DNP
DAL: DNP

And I think he only got back in those games because LaVine was out and we just refuse to play Carter.

My guess is the principle of the deal is done. They're just seeing if there's anything to happen with Porter or Murphy where they have to tie in money from Sac to get it finished before the 15th. But you simply don't sit 2 very good rotation players in Monk/Kuminga for a month like they have for no reason.

As long as we aren't giving up FRP, Keon or Carter, I'll be good. Monk+1 or maybe 2 2nds to bring it home is solid for us
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Not sure why we should sweeten the deal at this point other than player for player after they FAFO'd the offseason. But yeah it is all too convenient. Wonder what might have happened during the stretch he was active though.
 
Light it up said:
Any sweeteners better not be anything except Eubanks or 2nds. I could see them pushing for Precious.
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I am not sure if it is Maxime's play or the fact we actually are likely to have 2nd rounders play on the NBA team rather than 2-ways over the next 2 seasons that I am softening my "2nd round picks aren't worth much" stance. The second round is a sideshow run by player agents but if we are actually in the position to offering players genuine guaranteed NBA contracts over the next few years we should not be parting with them.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I am not sure if it is Maxime's play or the fact we actually are likely to have 2nd rounders play on the NBA team rather than 2-ways over the next 2 seasons that I am softening my "2nd round picks aren't worth much" stance. The second round is a sideshow run by player agents but if we are actually in the position to offering players genuine guaranteed NBA contracts over the next few years we should not be parting with them.
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Presuming that a Monk-Kuminga deal is on the table (as we all speculate) we will probably have to give up at least this year's SRP (either ours or CHA's) to get it done. GSW have had a hard public stance about wanting a FRP for Kuminga from the jump - they likely won't get it but there's face to be saved here. A good SRP this year and then perhaps something like a 40-60 of a future SRP (2027 or 2032...we don't have any others!) might allow GSW to tell the public they got the value they wanted.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Presuming that a Monk-Kuminga deal is on the table (as we all speculate) we will probably have to give up at least this year's SRP (either ours or CHA's) to get it done. GSW have had a hard public stance about wanting a FRP for Kuminga from the jump - they likely won't get it but there's face to be saved here. A good SRP this year and then perhaps something like a 40-60 of a future SRP (2027 or 2032...we don't have any others!) might allow GSW to tell the public they got the value they wanted.
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I guess. Or they could let Monk ball.
 
Or maybe it’s a 3 team deal where Monk goes to a team that actually wants him and THEY pay the draft pick to the Warriors
 
Sending Monk to Brooklyn, when so many teams need a dynamic guard right now, would be criminal. Send him to a contender!
 
Caccia said:
Sending Monk to Brooklyn, when so many teams need a dynamic guard right now, would be criminal. Send him to a contender!
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I agree but maybe he and Jordi had a thing and at least you got Brooklyn and Manhattan as your playground?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I agree but maybe he and Jordi had a thing and at least you got Brooklyn and Manhattan as your playground?
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They did get along, so far as I remember. The Nets have been playing .500 ball since the start of December. They could certainly use Monk as a starting point guard. Did you ever hear of a Russian rookie named Egor Demin? Still, the team is already 8 games from the playoffs and 4.5 from the play-in.
 
The_Jamal said:
But when you shed LaVine/DDR/Monk, possibly Domas, that money has to go somewhere.
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It can go in more flexible pieces on rookie contracts or bargain signings. Youth is one thing, but the ability to utilize rookie contract flexibility is almost mandatory these days. They squandered Fox's rookie years and instead tried to make moves up from day 1 rather than focusing on building a team long term. It was nothing short of a miracle they got one lone playoff appearance TBH.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It all comes down to lottery luck and draft capital. The Spurs had money like that tied up then win top 4 picks three years in a row.

We need to always be trying to add an extra pick. I think even at the end of the golden years it was bad drafting and not trying to move up in drafts that doomed us to the 2008-2009 season.
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Also, the truth is the Kings bigger signings recently have been the kind that cost draft capital not net it in return. Get space, have a little core of cheap youth, and then carry on. At least for a year or two.
 
SacTownKid said:
It can go in more flexible pieces on rookie contracts or bargain signings. Youth is one thing, but the ability to utilize rookie contract flexibility is almost mandatory these days. They squandered Fox's rookie years and instead tried to make moves up from day 1 rather than focusing on building a team long term. It was nothing short of a miracle they got one lone playoff appearance TBH.
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How do you get to the salary floor on rookie scales and bargain signings?

Buy-low guys can be flipped, as we're seeing with MPJ. They likely get 2 FRP from somebody, which brings their total to 3 FRP for Cam Johnson.

Just because you get a good deal on Kuminga/Watson, etc, doesn't mean they're on the team forever. The hope is you get the breakout on your team and that puts you in control on whether to keep as a long-term option, or sell high like BKN is.

Now, I completely agree with you on the "Paolo" idea that's been going around the last few days. That's skipping steps and putting the cart way before the horse. But I think the Kings should ALWAYS be looking for potential breakout guys as they're bad; essentially it just helps them get to their salary floor, which they'll need here soon anyways once the vet exodus happens.
 
The_Jamal said:
How do you get to the salary floor on rookie scales and bargain signings?

Buy-low guys can be flipped, as we're seeing with MPJ. They likely get 2 FRP from somebody, which brings their total to 3 FRP for Cam Johnson.

Just because you get a good deal on Kuminga/Watson, etc, doesn't mean they're on the team forever. The hope is you get the breakout on your team and that puts you in control on whether to keep as a long-term option, or sell high like BKN is.
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The Kings need to be positioning themselves to be the Nets, not focusing on pure talent grabs where salary isn't a factor. I mean, look at Kumingas value now, if he kind of stagnates to what he is they'll just be replacing Monks sketchy deal with the next one. This is KT to JT all over again potentially. They could always just sign one year contracts and preferably do what teams have done to the Kings in the past and be used as grease to facilitate other deals while picking up free picks in the process. Taking on other teams dead weight pays off.

Do teams still just spread the difference to the players on the team if they don't reach the floor? The Kings did that in the past didn't they? Regardless, the Kings as of now aren't getting any space for a few years unless they can unload major salary. If it were just Monk for Kuminga it's doable, but Perry has to let immediate results dictate the future when it comes to Kuminga because he doesn't have much time sit and gestate.
 
Amick coming out and confirming again that Keon remains the top trade target on the Kings……I’m guessing in part due to his low salary combined with his 3 and D ability.

Also insiders saying Scott Perry remains a big fan of Keon and the DNPs are Doug Christie’s call.
I do not believe this is just radio chatter.
I also believe the company line of guys who meet the Standards or the Perry pillars are the ones who will play is about the biggest load of doodoo this org has shoveled out in a long time and that’s saying something.

Then again, maybe I’m misreading the Standards and those standards are about iso ball and giving half effort on defense. Seems to work for Westbrook, Lavine and DDR.
 
dude12 said:
Amick coming out and confirming again that Keon remains the top trade target on the Kings……I’m guessing in part due to his low salary combined with his 3 and D ability.

Also insiders saying Scott Perry remains a big fan of Keon and the DNPs are Doug Christie’s call.
I do not believe this is just radio chatter.
I also believe the company line of guys who meet the Standards or the Perry pillars are the ones who will play is about the biggest load of doodoo this org has shoveled out in a long time and that’s saying something.

Then again, maybe I’m misreading the Standards and those standards are about iso ball and giving half effort on defense. Seems to work for Westbrook, Lavine and DDR.
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If Perry was a big fan of Keon, he wouldn't be an UFA. Clearly neither Perry nor Christie value Keon and that makes me question both of their IQs.
 
ESP47 said:
If Perry was a big fan of Keon, he wouldn't be an UFA. Clearly neither Perry nor Christie value Keon and that makes me question both of their IQs.
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I don’t question Doug’s IQ, I think very little of him. Perry’s only positives so far are getting the 3 young guys in Nique, Max and Cardwell who all look to be rotational pieces AND Perry is saying we need a rebuild. But this rebuild part is negated by his other moves in bringing in Schroeder and Westbrook. Horrible idea if we are looking at the future. Actually have never seen an org do it like this in our situation. Dumb. I guess the Eubanks acquisition got us off Jonas contract? I guess. Resigning McDermott, I guess for a salary filler contract? I guess.
Would have rather seen a young prospects guy fill that spot like Plowden or other young vet you can take a flyer on

The Devin Carter deal is bizarre. No 2 ways around it.
So others keep saying wait til trade deadline but I have a feeling every thing leading up to this point will have not been worth it in regards to these vets being on the team. We shall see. And I’m still think that Perry could have gotten ahead of the trade deadline with a move. It’s not written in stone you have to wait.

But he says get younger but Christie plays the ancient ones and sits Keon, Carter….hell, Monk is young compared to Westbrook. This product is so hard to watch.
 
dude12 said:
I don’t question Doug’s IQ, I think very little of him. Perry’s only positives so far are getting the 3 young guys in Nique, Max and Cardwell who all look to be rotational pieces AND Perry is saying we need a rebuild. But this rebuild part is negated by his other moves in bringing in Schroeder and Westbrook. Horrible idea if we are looking at the future. Actually have never seen an org do it like this in our situation. Dumb. I guess the Eubanks acquisition got us off Jonas contract? I guess. Resigning McDermott, I guess for a salary filler contract? I guess.
Would have rather seen a young prospects guy fill that spot like Plowden or other young vet you can take a flyer on

The Devin Carter deal is bizarre. No 2 ways around it.
So others keep saying wait til trade deadline but I have a feeling every thing leading up to this point will have not been worth it in regards to these vets being on the team. We shall see. And I’m still think that Perry could have gotten ahead of the trade deadline with a move. It’s not written in stone you have to wait.

But he says get younger but Christie plays the ancient ones and sits Keon, Carter….hell, Monk is young compared to Westbrook. This product is so hard to watch.
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Yep the games are pretty much just background noise in my house at this point. I'll pay a little attention when the bench comes in so I can see what Nique and Cardwell are doing but I don't even pay attention or care about what the starters are doing.

Carter and Keon's situations are both bizarre. Not a single person here has made a case for either situation that led me to think 'oh, that makes sense'. Both situations are nonsensical and fly in the face of the words that have come out of Perry and Christie's mouths.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Amick goes further than that. He says an Ellis deal “is almost certain to go down.”
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Can't wait for the usual suspects who never wanted to give Keon a chance all of a sudden try to flip the script when he's playing valuable rotation minutes in the playoffs in 3 months.

This stupid franchise cannot get out of its own way. Even if we manage to snag a FRP from a contender... all to hopefully draft someone who hopefully is as good/impactful as Keon?
 
ESP47 said:
Yep the games are pretty much just background noise in my house at this point. I'll pay a little attention when the bench comes in so I can see what Nique and Cardwell are doing but I don't even pay attention or care about what the starters are doing.

Carter and Keon's situations are both bizarre. Not a single person here has made a case for either situation that led me to think 'oh, that makes sense'. Both situations are nonsensical and fly in the face of the words that have come out of Perry and Christie's mouths.
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Yep.
 
The_Jamal said:
Can't wait for the usual suspects who never wanted to give Keon a chance all of a sudden try to flip the script when he's playing valuable rotation minutes in the playoffs in 3 months.

This stupid franchise cannot get out of its own way. Even if we manage to snag a FRP from a contender... all to hopefully draft someone who hopefully is as good/impactful as Keon?
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I can’t remember if it was Amick or another reputable source but they said that coaches around the league don’t feel the same way about Keon as fans/scouts. Id have to assume it’s the gambling style defense as opposed to keeping your guy in front of you.

Keon level players can be found in the second round. Will Richard, Sion James, Jamal Shead. In my opinion, a first round pick for Keon would be great asset management. If it’s this year, you have a controlled asset on a cheap deal and if it’s a future pick you get flexibility and the ability to package in a trade.

Again just my opinion, but Keon is a great fit for a contending team as a piece off the bench. He’s wasting away on a rebuilding team.
 
ESP47 said:
Yep the games are pretty much just background noise in my house at this point. I'll pay a little attention when the bench comes in so I can see what Nique and Cardwell are doing but I don't even pay attention or care about what the starters are doing.

Carter and Keon's situations are both bizarre. Not a single person here has made a case for either situation that led me to think 'oh, that makes sense'. Both situations are nonsensical and fly in the face of the words that have come out of Perry and Christie's mouths.
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Yeah, even if we accept that Carter is so awful at basketball right now... young players get better by seeing the floor. We've seen it in real time pretty much with all 3 of our rookies over the last month as they've been integrated into consistent high-minute role players.

Cardwell has been the major surprise, but Nique has quietly been pretty impactful as well. He's not shooting well, but if we take the data from Dec 18th to now (basically when I think there was a switch flipped to getting these rookies on the floor, consistently), he's looking like:

19 games:

21.1 MPG
6.6 PPG
3.4 RPG
1.3 APG
30.9% from 3 (2.9 3PA)

50.4% TS
15.8% USG
8.4% AST
7.8% TRB

ORtg 112.2
DRtg: 111.0 (2nd on team behind Cardwell)
Net: +1.2 (2nd on team behind Cardwell)

And out of curiosity, I wanted to take a look at Cardwell-Nique minutes together over this span. Obviously very noisy stuff with 2-man LU data on small samples, but was still a fun data point:

201 minutes

112.2 ORtg
100.0 DRtg
+12.2 Net

To put this number into context a bit, there's 11 "2 man duo" combos with more minutes over this span. The next closest net rating is Dennis/Nique at -0.4.
 
iowamcnabb said:
I can’t remember if it was Amick or another reputable source but they said that coaches around the league don’t feel the same way about Keon as fans/scouts. Id have to assume it’s the gambling style defense as opposed to keeping your guy in front of you.

Keon level players can be found in the second round. Will Richard, Sion James, Jamal Shead. In my opinion, a first round pick for Keon would be great asset management. If it’s this year, you have a controlled asset on a cheap deal and if it’s a future pick you get flexibility and the ability to package in a trade.

Again just my opinion, but Keon is a great fit for a contending team as a piece off the bench. He’s wasting away on a rebuilding team.
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Sad but true. side note I'm sure has been pointed out but we owned the pick that Shead was selected with and shipped it as part of the deal to get Sasha off our books with Davion.
 
iowamcnabb said:
I can’t remember if it was Amick or another reputable source but they said that coaches around the league don’t feel the same way about Keon as fans/scouts. Id have to assume it’s the gambling style defense as opposed to keeping your guy in front of you.

Keon level players can be found in the second round. Will Richard, Sion James, Jamal Shead. In my opinion, a first round pick for Keon would be great asset management. If it’s this year, you have a controlled asset on a cheap deal and if it’s a future pick you get flexibility and the ability to package in a trade.

Again just my opinion, but Keon is a great fit for a contending team as a piece off the bench. He’s wasting away on a rebuilding team.
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I mean possibly. But then why are 10 teams (All I assume good/playoff orgs) beating down our door to acquire him? That would give me all the pause in the world to think about why am I trading this guy when every good team wants him?

The only argument I'd buy is the exact one you made. We're rebuilding, get future cost-controlled assets for our good players right now makes sense.... if you're not running Russ/Dennis/DDR/LaVine/Monk for max minutes every single night.
 
Is there any risk with running into the luxury tax if they extend him, add a high draft pick, and can’t move off any of the other contracts?
 
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