Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Getting so good that you can win in spite of terrible coaching is only viable when you're literally the winningest team in NBA history or
*Luke proved that one wrong.
Fire Walton
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*Luke proved that one wrong.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Also have the two best shooters in NBA history in their primes and three of the best defenders of their generation (one of whom is also one of those generational shooters) on the roster. Oh, and play against a bunch of teams that have yet to adjust to the pace of play of "modern" basketball.
Even with all of that, there was a general lightning-in-a-bottle feel to the season wherein the Warriors were just winning no matter what based on the momentum of their previous championship run.
Yes
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Everyone on the forum thinks they have the answer but have we considered taking the advice of NBA’s very own Sage?
“I don’t really see us having a ‘head’ coach,” Sage said on a podcast.
“______could be a head coach, I could be a head coach (some days). . . . _______ could be a head coach, could do it one day. It’s a collaborative effort.”
“I don’t really see us having a ‘head’ coach,” Sage said on a podcast.
“______could be a head coach, I could be a head coach (some days). . . . _______ could be a head coach, could do it one day. It’s a collaborative effort.”
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
He then went on to "retract that statement" before subsequently missing like three weeks and forcing the Nets into sorta panic trading their entire future for James Harden.
It is rather remarkable that he had the opportunity to watch that team up close for so long and yet appears to have learned nothing about how their offense or defense works.
whozit
Starter
Can't be "Yes." The first question goes against the last two. Unless, yes on the first is in a negative sense.
I am neither a sage nor very astute. I am just very curious why Walton is the hill that ppine is deciding to die on. He in the past has provided insightful posts on players and had material to back up his opinions. Irregardless of if you agreed or disagreed with the opinion. Or my memory is failing me and I am getting posters confused. It was an honest question.
KainLear
Starter
I mean for crying out loud, the man had one of the bigger NBA last names and played with Kobe and Shaq from a bench position throughout most of his career, he's not "learning" from Steve Kerr, his fellow.
Yeah he also had that tutelage under PJ with Kobe and Shaq but I was referring more to a "what works in this era" formula the Warriors pioneered and which their success has passed on to the rest of the league, More specifically I mean running shooters off multiple screens to get good looks, decoy screens on the weak side, having the guards set screens then capitalize on the confusion by popping out for a quick three, giving up size inside in exchange for positional flexibility with long-limbed swingmen relentlessly patrolling the passing lanes. We're doing none of the things that made Golden State an unprecedented success and that includes both offense and defense.
Walton had: His dad, Lute Olson and Phil. All before Kerr (also descended from Lute and Phil). He's not an idiot but we received damaged goods post LeBron. He needs to take time off, have less pressure, assist someone, get back in his lane and then I think he could succeed. Honestly, we have ditched coaches that sucked here (Muss, Theus) and they have found success again in the college ranks and I think Luke could easily do that if he is willing to recruit. Go home to UA buddy.
I wager McNair had an inkling something along these lines would happen this season. Team wouldn't be good enough, he would have free reign to fire Walton and sell of the vets for future assets. I do think with a proper coaching staff and another couple key rotation guys or two this team could compete for a playoff spot with the emergence of Hali... but why?
Hopefully McNair gets the clearance to fire Walton and just fire-sale this thing. Position ourselves well in this upcoming draft, get a ton of developmental time for the young guys, grab future assets for the vets and go get the coach you actually want in the off-season. The turn-around could be so incredibly quick if Vivek actually signs off on it.
KainLear
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I was alluding to his ego being the biggest obstacle to his "learning"... it's a mostly baseless accusation on my end just from reading his general attitude and demeaner. Seems to be someone who talks a good game and had a lot of friends in the league. Always seems to have to "watch some tapes" before he could say anything of substance, a good friend of mine is a Lakers fan and had watched and analyzed his tenure in LA more closely. I just have never been a fanof him.
chief bromden
Starter
I've been following this team for 28 years, and these past two seasons have been the most discouraging. I don't know if it's misplaced expectations or whether the team should actually be better than it is, but it seems like everyone is at a loss for what is happening in these games, and the only mantra I hear from players and the coach is "it just needs to be better.". Firing Luke seems like it should happen, but then the Kings are on the same Merry go round they've been on since Vivek took over. I'm not sure which is better or worse.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He had a shot and the talent said hit the bricks.
KainLear
Starter
From seeing the sequences like the one when Fox scored 42 points and Walton immediately drew up a "hack-a-Adams" play and then 2 other big men shooting 3 from corner plays, I now take that Walton's press conference's "the players need to make the right decisions" with a heavy grain of salt as I'm not even sure his decisions are going to get us winning.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It should be. I can't remember when this team actually had this much talent and talent in ways that should work in this era of basketball. And firing coaches is par for the course when you change a FO. They did this merry go round with Karl before. Vlade came in and gave him a shot. In the meantime it obliterated any shot of keeping their franchise player long term. Obviously in the end it worked out considering Cuz' body breaking down but still. That was another untenable situation and they let it ride until it rode off the rails and they might be doing the same thing now.
The timing/ lack of action is frustrating. If it is on ownership because of money or a phobia of repeating the Mike Malone drama, that's a bummer. Although Malone was doing well when he got the boot and Luke isn't. If it's on the front office - maybe they want the team to lose as much as possible this year, want to avoid long interim coaching periods and will wait until, say the all star break, to get move pieces, or genuinely want to give Luke a shot and see if they can work with him. Whichever it is, at some stage the losses have to catch up with him.
My expectations are based - for the most part - on our playoff chase two years ago. Maybe we overachieved then, or rode an early win streak longer than what we should have, but the core of that team is still here and is more experienced. We shouldn't be 2 - 9 in our last 11 with a -10 point differential for the season.
KainLear
Starter
It is unrealistic now to really expect Walton to be fired IMO. On one hand, poor performance usually gets your coaches fired, that's common practice in sports. But during COVID with no fans, games being postponed, teams losing money, we don't even sure if or when the whole NBA season will be able to finish, with the Kings never really have the intention or hope to make the Playoffs or anything from the start, and our salary situation being what it is (McNair did say he wants players who can flourish within the timeline of Fox and Bagley I believe) and next season's good selections of rookies, it would almost be ridiculous to fire Luke Walton now unless there are other reasons.
Last night Mike (the new commentator??) commented the Kings don't work the ball into the post on too many possessions. They just run around the perimeter. That would be a scheme thing, not a player decision thing.
Luke should take some responsibility. He is a young coach that has not achieved anything on his own. He does not have the resume to just say 'I wash my hands of this'. If he had led a couple of different teams deep into the playoffs, then cool, it might be just on the players.
I see Monte as a huge upgrade over Vlade and those other two idiots not even worth mentioning. He hasn't had a chance to hire a coach yet, and he most certainly will soon enough, so I don't think it's the same merry go round, but he definitely needs to stick the landing when he hops off!
Vinny Basketballerino
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Ridiculous. Bagley is still up the upswing and Barnes is about as reliable a 3/4 in the league and every playoff team has a guy like him on it. You just don't trade guys like that. I can see you are of the perpetual tank philosophy. We just landed the best player in the draft, have one of the best young PGs in the league, and a promising (if unknown) young big still coming off an injury plagued season. Bagley is twenty-one years old. You just don't give up on that. I'm with you on Buddy though, he is the type of player you trade... his numbers outpace his actual impact.
Still, I rate your post: NO LASAGNA
Just let Walton ride it out for the year so we can nab one of the top prospects. I see no point in "improving" this group into mediocrity, only to allow themselves to miss out on a top prospect just so they can prove to everyone that they suck, just not enough to ever get better again.
Agreed. Unfortunately.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And the window to really provide a quick spark might have passed. All the reason needed is erasing the image of a total lack of hope being your foundation and the eventual feeling of these players being left on an island to fend for themselves. It's something only the worst of the worst organizations pull off in a truly grandiose fashion and it's well remembered around draft time and free agency by agents. No draft pick is worth creating a real life Lord of the Flies in your locker room. Not if they consider any of these players long term pieces. We just witnessed what it looks like when your franchise player is done in James Harden and that was even with a decent team behind him. Every player has their breaking point. Better to not tempt that as a first time GM. Monte needs to think about his own survival at this point. If he passes the potato over to his coach then the organization at the very least creates an illusion that they aren't joined at the hip to the lifelessness Walton is exhibiting on the sideline. Then it's on the players to buy in.
whozit
Starter
If taking the job required taking Walton for the year, that’s a bitter pill to swallow. With how quickly it was announced that Walton was staying, it would not shock me in the least.
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