Fire Walton

Regardless, this is one of the bigger moves, if not the biggest move of McNair's tenure as GM. Whether it's actually his decision or not to keep Walton, the fallout if things go badly next year is now on him and doesn't get passed off to being "Vlade's leftover"
That's what sucks about this franchise. We have no idea if it's McNair's decision, Vivek's decision or a purely monetary decision based on the business.
 
I largely agree but how does the best basketball league in the world have only a handful of consensus good coaches?
Simple, because in any given year there are only a handful of TRUE contenders and moreso now than ever with superstar teams being formed. Coaches are going to get flack, it's the way of the NBA world and it always has been. I look at it like this, good coaches are harder to find than bad ones. Bad ones are easy to spot if you're looking. They are the ones that take what works and fidget with it. Or take players that could be really good in certain aspects and attempt to turn them into what they need or want. Or take a ROY candidate while being a part of a top 4 unit according to net rating and put a journeyman role player (who his coach completely identifies with) in his place. Costing him an award and you a reputation as anything other than mediocre. Gee, I think we know a guy who did just that. Better lock that down tight! haha.
 
We, well, I got sold the bill of goods. I thought every move a franchise do should be driven by trying to win. I have never and will never root for tanking. Honestly. Every season we have full 2 rounds of rookies and buncha undrafted players trying to make it before, during, and after the draft. But statistically, there is only a very very small percentage of them that would become superstars. Why would fans even root for your team playing worse, which makes the current players, young and old, slowly detaching from the reality where they care about winning, which hurts your team's culture, just to try their hands literally in a lottery that REGULARLY filled with the Greg-Odens and "Out of Service Pervis"-Ellisons?

The winning is going to help your current players so much in more winning because it is addictive to win, and thus, the drive to win will raise their skill level/stock value, which in turn make them more attractive to you, or any other NBA teams if they don't turn out to be the right fit for this current team. That is how I understand about building a successful winning culture. I never built an NBA team other than in NBA 2K video games so obviously, I wouldn't know the nitty-gritty. But if we aren't about winning, what are we about?

"Every team in the league is striving to win" is the narrative I was sold on. I understand winning is not an immediate thing but looking at the New York Knicks, you can see how big an impact a good head coach is and you can't tell me the Knicks' roster was SO MUCH BETTER than us a year ago.

If our GM and our owner are fine with this team's continuous losing, that's on them. Ultimately, it's about selling tickets to the fans and I now learned that, by no means, it's hinging on winning.

But count me out of this mediocre train. I hope the Kings make it next year to the Playoffs because all you fans deserve this. I wish the best for all of you.
 
I'm not disputing any of that but I also think that based on what he did with the Golden State roster and that prior to LeBron he was getting steady improvement out of a garbage LA roster the hire was valid for basketball reasons.
I’m of course not a huge fan of warriors or lakers... but what comes to mind is when Walton was given the opportunity to take over for Steve Kerr , at that time , wasn’t that team a very “seasoned” team? Not that some credit isn’t due but was there alot of... coaching needed from Walton? When Vlade announced the hiring of Walton I was disappointed... and since we’re entering our third season I hope as the players know there has to be adjustments please Walton make your adjustments .
 
I’m of course not a huge fan of warriors or lakers... but what comes to mind is when Walton was given the opportunity to take over for Steve Kerr , at that time , wasn’t that team a very “seasoned” team? Not that some credit isn’t due but was there alot of... coaching needed from Walton? When Vlade announced the hiring of Walton I was disappointed... and since we’re entering our third season I hope as the players know there has to be adjustments please Walton make your adjustments .
Golden State was a ready made team indeed, but he coached them to a higher win % than Kerr did. Ultimately this is tempered somewhat because they did not win the championship that season, but they eclipsed the Bulls 72 win regular season that year - the team went 39-4 in games he coached. That's a hell of an achievement.
 
I firmly believe Joe Dumars is running this show. As soon as it was reported his duties wouldn't conflict with Vlade and barely a year later Vlade was asked to step aside for Dumars you knew what was going on. They hired a cheap rookie GM that won't stand in his way.
Once again, another wrench in the mix. Is it Dumars? Vivek? McNair? This the by far the largest issue Vivek has created with his power structure and it's a big reason I have very little faith this organization can ever really turn it around. Every well-run organization in any sport starts with a defined power structure that's all on the same page. The Kings tenure under Vivek started day 1 with that out of whack by hiring the coach before the GM.
 
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on Walton's coaching acumen. His teams are atrocious on defense, his substitutions and usage of players are head scratching, and he's never had a winning season as a coach; even with LBJ playing he was BARELY 0.500, which is woefully underperforming.
As I said, I’m not advocating Walton as a good coach. I’m not even disagreeing with you on acumen. Just keeping things realistic and accurate.

They had a winning record w/ LeBron in the line up and a different coach wouldn’t have fared any better with that roster minus LeBron in the West.
 
Once again, another wrench in the mix. Is it Dumars? Vivek? McNair? This the by far the largest issue Vivek has created with his power structure and it's a big reason I have very little faith this organization can ever really turn it around. Every well-run organization in any sport starts with a defined power structure that's all on the same page. The Kings tenure under Vivek started day 1 with that out of whack by hiring the coach before the GM.
Yeah, the gift that keeps on giving is Vivek himself. I think it's fairly clear he's easily duped by board room politicians. It's why he sided against Malone and why Vlade only lasted as long as he did. Walton appears to have a fairly decent political game going for him. That well ran dry in LA at a certain point though.
 
As I said, I’m not advocating Walton as a good coach. I’m not even disagreeing with you on acumen. Just keeping things realistic and accurate.

They had a winning record w/ LeBron in the line up and a different coach wouldn’t have fared any better with that roster minus LeBron in the West.
Really? Want to ask LeBron about that one? I mean, there has to be a reason that went down the way it did. Why aren't the Kings letting other franchises mistakes be a lesson that they themselves do not have to learn?
 
Fans need to voice their displeasure at the home games next year if early, we go on another 9 game losing streak. I mean, didn’t we have 2 of those this year or no?

Fans need to bring the heat with being vocal at the games and then quite frankly, Monte got to pull a big trade out of his arse to give the fans hope because bringing back Walton is already strike one for next year for many fans.
 
To me, you can objectively evaluate based on season goals/expectations (Realistic ones). So for lotto teams, are players being developed, improved, good rotations, player management, etc. I am not sure Luke meets that. But even so, Luke was hired to make us a playoff team, so by that metric he's also out.

You take a guy like Stotts, he's a decent coach, but not one that is going to get the Blazers to the next level. But a guy like Stotts probably would be better than Walton. Same with McMillan, who is the one retread I'd be on board with. Stevens may not have much longer to go in Boston and would probably improve this team. But again I don't know about just picking up guys immediately after they are canned. I really hope Monte has a long term guy in mind and maybe just has been convinced to give it one more year because the players want him and the money is tight. but yikes, horrible reasons.
There is no next level the Blazers can go with the current roster, this has got nothing to do with coaching.
 
Really? Want to ask LeBron about that one? I mean, there has to be a reason that went down the way it did. Why aren't the Kings letting other franchises mistakes be a lesson that they themselves do not have to learn?
First, why would anyone want LeBron’s opinion on anything? While an all-time great talent, he’s proven himself to be an overly sensitive, mentally weak pansy. He can’t handle criticism of any kind, historically shrinks and defers to others under pressure and surrounds himself with ‘Yes’ people.

As for the reason it went down as it did, re-read the above paragraph. LBJ is the problem. He’s had issues with other coaches too, along with GM’s, owners, etc. and has to hand pick his own guy. An LBJ yes man.

This is the same dude that had the audacity to complain to the media that he didn’t have enough help a season after winning the title with Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Co. Same dude that had to defer to Dwayne Wade to see how it’s supposed to be done. Same dude that couldn’t hack it in the Western Conference w/o Anthony Davis. But I digress.

I’m not a proponent for Luke Walton. Like others, I see him as a big part of the problem. But I’m also not closed off to the idea that, like players, perhaps the guy can improve. And with the KINGS financial situation, Walton’s contract extending 3 more seasons and Swipa’s recent semi-endorsement of him — I’m not against his return for one more season come hell or high water.

Regardless of my feeling about that, I still feel it’s important to be accurate and fair. Some of you aren’t being accurate and fair. But that doesn’t mean I feel he’s a great coach. Or the right coach. Whatever the truth is, how LeBron James feels about him doesn’t factor in at all for me. For the reasons stated. That dude would probably have problems with Phil Jackson’s mental approach. He doesn’t work well with anyone that has an ego half as large as his own and that doesn’t run the team as he sees fit.
 
Last edited:
First, why would anyone want LeBron’s opinion on anything? While an all-time great talent, he’s proven himself to be an overly sensitive, mentally weak pansy. He can’t handle criticism of any kind, historically shrinks and defers to others under pressure and surrounds himself with ‘Yes’ people.

As for the reason it went down as it did, re-read the above paragraph. LBJ is the problem. He’s had issues with other coaches too, along with GM’s, owners, etc. and has to hand pick his own guy. An LBJ yes man.

This is the same dude that had the audacity to complain to the media that he didn’t have enough help a season after winning the title with Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Co. Same dude that had to defer to Dwayne Wade to see how it’s supposed to be done. Same dude that couldn’t hack it in the Western Conference w/o Anthony Davis. But I digress.

I’m not a proponent for Luke Walton. Like others, I see him as a big part of the problem. But I’m also not closed off to the idea that, like players, perhaps the guy can improve. And with the KINGS financial situation, Walton’s contract extending 3 more seasons and Swipa’s recent semi-endorsement of him — I’m not against his return for one more season come hell or high water.

Regardless of my feeling about that, I still feel it’s important to be accurate and fair. Some of you aren’t being accurate and fair. But that doesn’t mean I feel he’s a greatyaee6qe4qe2e coach. Or the right coach. Whatever the truth is, how LeBron James feels about him doesn’t factor in at all for me. For the reasons stated. That dude would probably have problems with Phil Jackson’s mental approach. He doesn’t work well with anyone that has an ego half as large as his own and that doesn’t run the team as he sees fit.
While I'm not a fan of Walton, using criticism from LBJ isn't the way to prove your point. He has tried to get the coach fired at pretty much every new team he has joined. The one I know he failed was in Miami where Pat Riley refused to fire Spoelstra.
 
McNair created this mess by half-heartedly going for the play-offs and then falling short. Fans bought into “we can be a play-off team” and when we failed logically looked for a reason why. That available “reason” was Walton.

Had McNair been clear “We don’t have the base of players beyond Fox and Haliburton” he would have
1) avoided setting Walton up for failure
2) put himself in position for a higher pick
3) potentially had additional picks from Boston (Barnes) and/or Charlotte (Holmes)
4) had more cap space to go after young players that fit with Fox and Hali in free agency.

the fan base was more than willing to give him a one to two year pass but he F’d it up. Now he better hope he is either an outstanding talent evaluator from the 9-10 slot or as lucky as Vlade.
 
First, why would anyone want LeBron’s opinion on anything? While an all-time great talent, he’s proven himself to be an overly sensitive, mentally weak pansy. He can’t handle criticism of any kind, historically shrinks and defers to others under pressure and surrounds himself with ‘Yes’ people.

As for the reason it went down as it did, re-read the above paragraph. LBJ is the problem. He’s had issues with other coaches too, along with GM’s, owners, etc. and has to hand pick his own guy. An LBJ yes man.

This is the same dude that had the audacity to complain to the media that he didn’t have enough help a season after winning the title with Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Co. Same dude that had to defer to Dwayne Wade to see how it’s supposed to be done. Same dude that couldn’t hack it in the Western Conference w/o Anthony Davis. But I digress.
.
I have to disagree on some of this. I’ve never quite understood why Lebron is so unpopular among a large portion of the fan base. The guy was a good student, great family man, no trouble or scandals, Unbelievably generous, a good teammate and a fantastic role model for young boys and girls, minorities in particular. Imagine being all those things and having people who don’t know you criticize all day every day and sometimes despise you.

As far as being a coach killer, he can be. However, if you listen to interviews by former teammates they all say the same thing. He is a basketball genius with a steel trap memory. It’s probably hard to be coached by people who have half your acumen.

From a competitive stand point, the gold standard is Jordan for sure. LBJ doesn’t have the cut throat nature Jordan had but I think it’s silly to think Lebron’s accomplishments are less impressive because he joined Wade or asked for better players. Jordan played three years in college and it still took him 6 years in the NBA to win a championship. He had the perfect team built around him and who many consider the best coach in history. Pippen was a top 5 two way player during that run and perfect role players like Tony K, Kerr, Rodman.


Whether you agree with his politics or not, I find it hard to understand the scrutiny he faces in comparison to other players.
 
McNair created this mess by half-heartedly going for the play-offs and then falling short. Fans bought into “we can be a play-off team” and when we failed logically looked for a reason why. That available “reason” was Walton.

Had McNair been clear “We don’t have the base of players beyond Fox and Haliburton” he would have
1) avoided setting Walton up for failure
2) put himself in position for a higher pick
3) potentially had additional picks from Boston (Barnes) and/or Charlotte (Holmes)
4) had more cap space to go after young players that fit with Fox and Hali in free agency.

the fan base was more than willing to give him a one to two year pass but he F’d it up. Now he better hope he is either an outstanding talent evaluator from the 9-10 slot or as lucky as Vlade.
I know you think clearing the roster would guarantee us a higher pick, but as we found out at the end of the season, that isn’t necessarily the case. Our record after losing Barnes, Fox and Haliburton was on par with our record with those guys.

I don’t think it’s the end of the world we kept Barnes. If he helps us make the play offs next year it will end up being the correct move. On top of that, we can still trade him next year if we are underachieving and his deal will look even better to teams. I also won’t fault Monte for not trading Holmes since all indications are he wants to re-sign him. If we lose him for nothing, that was the risk necessary to try and keep him onboard.

If we jump up, this is all for naught, if we stand pat, we ended up with TD and a Wagner or Moody or some other piece. All that plus Hali is more than Vlade accomplished in his time here.
 
McNair created this mess by half-heartedly going for the play-offs and then falling short. Fans bought into “we can be a play-off team” and when we failed logically looked for a reason why. That available “reason” was Walton.

Had McNair been clear “We don’t have the base of players beyond Fox and Haliburton” he would have
1) avoided setting Walton up for failure
2) put himself in position for a higher pick
3) potentially had additional picks from Boston (Barnes) and/or Charlotte (Holmes)
4) had more cap space to go after young players that fit with Fox and Hali in free agency.

the fan base was more than willing to give him a one to two year pass but he F’d it up. Now he better hope he is either an outstanding talent evaluator from the 9-10 slot or as lucky as Vlade.
Considering we are posting in a "fire Walton" thread that began in January, I'm not sure McNair's actions or inactions at the trade deadline "created this mess."

That said, I agree that the responsibility for keeping Walton, at this point, lies with McNair.
 
I know you think clearing the roster would guarantee us a higher pick, but as we found out at the end of the season, that isn’t necessarily the case. Our record after losing Barnes, Fox and Haliburton was on par with our record with those guys.

I don’t think it’s the end of the world we kept Barnes. If he helps us make the play offs next year it will end up being the correct move. On top of that, we can still trade him next year if we are underachieving and his deal will look even better to teams. I also won’t fault Monte for not trading Holmes since all indications are he wants to re-sign him. If we lose him for nothing, that was the risk necessary to try and keep him onboard.

If we jump up, this is all for naught, if we stand pat, we ended up with TD and a Wagner or Moody or some other piece. All that plus Hali is more than Vlade accomplished in his time here.
well multiple points to say...

If we cleared the roster we aren’t playing Harkless or Wright. And it should be concerning that substituting clear end of bench and role players for our starters resulted in little drop off. That should argue more heavily that the current roster in not play off caliber in the west.

Monte owns setting the expectation of the playoffs with this roster.
 
I’ve never quite understood why Lebron is so unpopular among a large portion of the fan base. The guy was a good student, great family man, no trouble or scandals, Unbelievably generous, a good teammate and a fantastic role model for young boys and girls, minorities in particular.
I don't disagree with most of what you outlined here. My criticism didn't extend to those areas. They were specifically directed at his over-sensitivity, penchant to surround himself with "yes" people and history of deferring to others and being weak in big moments.

I can cite numerous examples to support, but I don't believe it necessary at this time. Because regardless whether you agree with those points, that's where my criticism was directed.

Next, to be completely honest and transparent, at one time I was a fan of LBJ. For a long time, actually.

I followed his HS career and rooted hard for the kid during his entire 1st tenure with Cleveland. I often defended him against the incessant comparisons to MJ and the like.

However, he began to really start to rub me the wrong way when he bolted to MIA. Not just because he was front running, but because of the manner in which he executed the free agency move. If Chris Webber had done to KINGS fans and Sacramento what LBJ did to Cleveland with "the announcement", we'd have denounced him forever.

So that was the first chink in the armor for me.

I still half way rooted and defended him, despite numerous instances of failing to rise to the challenge (remember the AC/cramping game?), deferring to Dwyane Wade and having to be saved by Ray Allen (MIA loses 2 out of 3 Finals if Allen doesn't hit that 3 against SA).

I also rooted for LBJ big time against the Warriors from 2015-2018. I was extremely happy to see Cleveland finally redeemed.

However, the kid suddenly grew a HUGE head and began self-proclaiming himself GOAT (WHAT?!). All because he managed to finally step up once as the true alpha player with the block on Andre Iguodala.

It's as if he thinks we forgot all about the past failures or the fact that, despite his fantastic block, CLE arguably doesn't win that series if Draymond Green doesn't miss GM5 AND if Kyrie Irving didn't make the BIG shot. Again, someone else stepping up to save the day offensively per usual.

Then, on top of all that, he suddenly became super over-bearing with his political activism. Not that I'm suggesting I take issue with all the causes because I don't. I largely take issue with the manner he goes about it.

Early on I felt he was doing a lot of virtue signaling. He wasn't actively doing much about anything other than voicing displeasure via social media. A lot of what he'd say struck me as disingenuous and often ill-informed and/or hypocritical.

Like his basketball career, I feel his primary motivation is to be praised and loved. Unlike say MJ or Kobe Bryant -- who are/were extremely confident in most everything they say and do -- LBJ's motives come from an extreme place of insecurity. And I just finally saw through it all. I see him as extremely fake. Not a bad guy, just not close to the image he works so hard to project.

I'm not at all suggesting guys like MJ and Kobe were perfect and w/o flaws. Because they are/were not. There was a level of in-authenticity in those guys too. But neither of them emitted near the same level of insecurity. Neither had the checkered history LBJ has in terms of rising to the challenge in the biggest of games. Both helped lead their teams to more championships. Yet neither went out of their way to proclaim themselves GOAT -- let alone after only a 3rd title.

So while I acknowledge many of the things you listed about him to be seemingly true -- it is the above that altered my view over the past 10+ years.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program -- Luke Walton. :)
 
Last edited:
I know you think clearing the roster would guarantee us a higher pick, but as we found out at the end of the season, that isn’t necessarily the case. Our record after losing Barnes, Fox and Haliburton was on par with our record with those guys.

I don’t think it’s the end of the world we kept Barnes. If he helps us make the play offs next year it will end up being the correct move. On top of that, we can still trade him next year if we are underachieving and his deal will look even better to teams. I also won’t fault Monte for not trading Holmes since all indications are he wants to re-sign him. If we lose him for nothing, that was the risk necessary to try and keep him onboard.

If we jump up, this is all for naught, if we stand pat, we ended up with TD and a Wagner or Moody or some other piece. All that plus Hali is more than Vlade accomplished in his time here.
while I’m far from a Vlade fan but Vlade got us Fox and Bogi and Holmes. I haven’t seen anything from McNair that supersedes those acquisitions yet.
 
Shoulda fired Walton. This is just gonna be another lost year for the kings.
On a sidenote, props to D-lo and KC over at 1320 espn for getting coach Rick Adelman. God it was so great to hear him. The memories..............
 
First, why would anyone want LeBron’s opinion on anything? While an all-time great talent, he’s proven himself to be an overly sensitive, mentally weak pansy. He can’t handle criticism of any kind, historically shrinks and defers to others under pressure and surrounds himself with ‘Yes’ people.

As for the reason it went down as it did, re-read the above paragraph. LBJ is the problem. He’s had issues with other coaches too, along with GM’s, owners, etc. and has to hand pick his own guy. An LBJ yes man.

This is the same dude that had the audacity to complain to the media that he didn’t have enough help a season after winning the title with Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Co. Same dude that had to defer to Dwayne Wade to see how it’s supposed to be done. Same dude that couldn’t hack it in the Western Conference w/o Anthony Davis. But I digress.

I’m not a proponent for Luke Walton. Like others, I see him as a big part of the problem. But I’m also not closed off to the idea that, like players, perhaps the guy can improve. And with the KINGS financial situation, Walton’s contract extending 3 more seasons and Swipa’s recent semi-endorsement of him — I’m not against his return for one more season come hell or high water.

Regardless of my feeling about that, I still feel it’s important to be accurate and fair. Some of you aren’t being accurate and fair. But that doesn’t mean I feel he’s a great coach. Or the right coach. Whatever the truth is, how LeBron James feels about him doesn’t factor in at all for me. For the reasons stated. That dude would probably have problems with Phil Jackson’s mental approach. He doesn’t work well with anyone that has an ego half as large as his own and that doesn’t run the team as he sees fit.
Yeah and the Kings picked up those table scraps and how's it working so far? LeBron has some rings to his name at least. Beggars can't be choosers