Evaluating the Cousins Trade.

[Blob]

Nothing against Buddy but for the life of me I cannot see how some people are thinking that he can be a special player. Other than that shot, there is not much there to hang your hat on in terms of NBA skill or game in general. Hell when it comes to handles, Ben McLemore is Kyrie Irving compared to Buddy.

Weak analysis. Buddy has (1) great footwork and (2) moves tremendously off the ball (3) changes end well in transition and (4) (unlike Ben) has a solid left hand. There's 4 skills that I just rattled off the top of my head in addition to his shot to give fans basis for optimism. Your summation of his game is myopic. And a lot of his handling issues are related to new teammates and system and finding a comfort level amidst this change. He needs to improve his handles but it is not as dreary as you portray.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Weak analysis. Buddy has (1) great footwork and (2) moves tremendously off the ball (3) changes end well in transition and (4) (unlike Ben) has a solid left hand. There's 4 skills that I just rattled off the top of my head in addition to his shot to give fans basis for optimism. Your summation of his game is myopic. And a lot of his handling issues are related to new teammates and system and finding a comfort level amidst this change. He needs to improve his handles but it is not as dreary as you portray.

A lot of the negativity still may be some type of backlash for the Cousins trade, I'd take those posts with that in mind

Buddy has been encouraging and has shown me he can be a good two guard with heart

 

[John Galt]

A lot of the negativity still may be some type of backlash for the Cousins trade, I'd take those posts (and to some degree posters) with that in mind

This will prevail for a while unfortunately. For me, there is no point dwelling on what might have been. A championship around a max resigned cuz? multi-year deep playoff run? who knows - but none of that was anywhere near certain... and now we're doing something else.

nobody seems to really believe that "reasonable people can disagree" on whether to max Cuz or not. I feel there are smart people on both sides - and I'm just enjoying watching Joerger bring the youth along HIS way... which I really believe is the right way.

 

[VF21]

A lot of the negativity still may be some type of backlash for the Cousins trade, I'd take those posts with that in mind

Buddy has been encouraging and has shown me he can be a good two guard with heart

I think you're holding onto the past yourself. Most Cousins peeps (at least in my POV) are moving on; they're judging Buddy by what they see on the court. I think you need to quit acting like our viewpoints have no value.

 

[VF21]

This will prevail for a while unfortunately. For me, there is no point dwelling on what might have been. A championship around a max resigned cuz? multi-year deep playoff run? who knows - but none of that was anywhere near certain... and now we're doing something else.

nobody seems to really believe that "reasonable people can disagree" on whether to max Cuz or not. I feel there are smart people on both sides - and I'm just enjoying watching Joerger bring the youth along HIS way... which I really believe is the right way.

Please see my comments to Kingsfan23 above.

 

[Warhawk]

Has Vlade drafted badly?

WCS : may develop into good starting C/PF - rather have him than Mudiay
Skal: Skal!
Malachi: may develop into quality SG/SF so unlucky he got hurt when he did.
Paps : he's tall

We won't know for a few years how it all pans out. But if we decide that WCS doesn't fit our culture, or we almost sneak into the PO and decide that it's a foreign concept and decide to tank again by trading Skal for protected draft picks, or whatever, someone might again decide to pull the rug out from under us. Starting to feel like Charlie Brown and the football with this damn team.

 

[Hoovtrain]

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/11/1...avis-pelicans-benched-why-struggle?yptr=yahoo

 

[206Fan]

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/11/1...avis-pelicans-benched-why-struggle?yptr=yahoo

Cousins was looking extremely frustrating on the bench. Cousins was having a bad game. 25mins, 4-11, 11pts 4rebs 4asts, but 6tos and 5PFs. Gentry benched him early in the 4th quarter, and they won in OT. Cousins looked upset on the bench, and I don't know if benching him was the right move. AD-Cousins is your future. I think helping those 2 to continually build chemistry is more important than getting the W at this point.

Cousins was playing poor and a bit out of control, and the Pels have the luxury of benching him. It was obvious that benching Cuz was the only way to win...but I don't know.

An off-season together should work things out, but I think another year of Gentry is just going to waste it. In the end, I don't think the AD-Cousins pairing will work out. I think Cousins will be frustrated as the #2 option, and fouling will continue to be a problem for him.

 

[Jeremy Fraser]

Since Cousins joined New Orleans, they’re outscoring opponents by more than five points per 100 possessions without him on the court. With him on the court, the Pelicans are outscored by about 11 points per 100 possessions.

 

[Jeremy Fraser]

BUT #SUPERSTAR #FRANCHISEPLAYER

 

[Kingsfan23]

I don't doubt that he is mentally not all there with the Pelicans, but the same issues, turnovers, fouling, lack of running the floor and perimeter play have followed him to New Orleans.

 

[Joshoua]

lol can't even give them a training camp together

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

An off-season together should work things out, but I think another year of Gentry is just going to waste it. In the end, I don't think the AD-Cousins pairing will work out. I think Cousins will be frustrated as the #2 option, and fouling will continue to be a problem for him.

We've seen counterfactual evidence that Cousins can function and be productive on a team where he's not the #1 option. What I don't think is ever going to work is him being the #2 or #3 option on a losing team.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

lol can't even give them a training camp together

Why would a reasonable person do that, when you can get out in front on declaring him a failure in nine games?

 

[Blob]

I don't doubt that he is mentally not all there with the Pelicans, but the same issues, turnovers, fouling, lack of running the floor and perimeter play have followed him to New Orleans.

He is playing his worst basketball of the season. And I know because I have seen all his games! He's been about one point per shot and more TOs than assists in recent losses. This meddling offensive efficiency is what plagued him his first 6 years in the league....with a 53% TS and 0.8 assist to turnover rate. When the game ended and Pelicans won, he made a beeline to locker room without even celebrating with teammates, or high five to Anthony Davis for his incredible performance.

Clearly Boogie's fragile ego was bruised. He's been pressing too when he can't get his offensive on track, and this led last night to his 5th foul with 9:00 minutes left in the fourth. It's bush league lazy basketball for guy who should know better and play with more discipline. It has been less than a month with Pelicans and Boogie has been suspended for one game, fined 50K for cursing out two fans in classless display, and benched while team had best win post-trade without his help. This was not the plan for either side (Pelicans or the Boogie camp) and does not bode well for long term marriage.

I thought Davis and Boogie could share the court fruitfully. Now I am not so sure. One reason is the opponents 4 man is often open when they share the court together, either in pick and pop situations or in transition. The second reason is that Boogie doesn't like to defer, be second banana, for his usage rage to decline as it has when he plays with another all-star, and one who has proven himself to be more efficient as scorer and passer. Remember that Boogie did not fight hard (or at all) for Isaiah to be retained when he was a free agent. He did not like having a high scoring teammate with the ball in his hands. It is one of the reasons he advocated for Rondo, a PG dedicated to feeding the primary scorer.

We will see how dramatically things change after training camp and personnel moves over the summer. The Pelicans are limited in what they can do. As it stands I doubt Boogie entertains seriously resigning with the Pelicans. Honestly and sadly I see him becoming a Laker in two seasons.

 

[Glenn]

There is a part of Boogie that I think is operative now. He loved Sacramento. He wanted to see his jersey raised to the rafters. I suspect he wanted to retire here. The trade screwed him up in a way unknown to pro sports. He cannot tolerate what happened to him and might need quite awhile to adjust to the Pels if he does adjust. There are parts of Boogie that are not "normal" in a good way. He was loyal. Then he got crapped on. I dare anyone to tell him this is just business because I don't think it was "just" business to him. If it appears to an outsider that he can't focus, that is probably exactly what is going on. Don't count on it changing this year. He appears to be good buddies with AD and that may help eventually. I doubt it.

 

[VF21]

...As it stands I doubt Boogie entertains seriously resigning with the Pelicans. Honestly and sadly I see him becoming a Laker in two seasons.

He hates all things LA and I don't think that will change. I see him in Boston.

 

[whozit]

He hates all things LA and I don't think that will change. I see him in Boston.

I didn't look to see what their salary cap projections are for his FA summer, but I could see him in Washington also. I still think going to a stable environment would do him wonders. NO may have fleeced the Kings but that doesn't change the fact that they appear pretty dysfunctional themselves.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I didn't look to see what their salary cap projections are for his FA summer, but I could see him in Washington also. I still think going to a stable environment would do him wonders...

It remains to be seen whether or not it's too late for Cousins. If it is, it'd be a god damned shame, because he's just so talented.

I honestly believe that, any given year, there are 35-40 guys that, whether they succeed or fail, whether they are thought of as good players or bad players, whether they are thought of as leaders or cancers, simply comes down to what organization drafts them. I don't think that there are nearly as many "Would have been X, no matter what"-type players in the league as many fans seem to believe. Like, Kings Fans like to lament over how the management blew the Jimmer Fredette pick, but I just can't make myself believe that Kawhi Leonard would have actually become KAWHI LEONARD if the Kings had drafted him, instead.

 

[whozit]

It remains to be seen whether or not it's too late for Cousins. If it is, it'd be a god damned shame, because he's just so talented.

I honestly believe that, any given year, there are 35-40 guys that, whether they succeed or fail, whether they are thought of as good players or bad players, whether they are thought of as leaders or cancers, simply comes down to what organization drafts them. I don't think that there are nearly as many "Would have been X, no matter what"-type players in the league as many fans seem to believe. Like, Kings Fans like to lament over how the management blew the Jimmer Fredette pick, but I just can't make myself believe that Kawhi Leonard would have actually become KAWHI LEONARD if the Kings had drafted him, instead.

Your bloody right. For the "average" player who drafts them can be a determining factor for their level of success. And by "average" I'm meaning in the context that even NBA scrubs aren't scrubs in nearly any other league. 35-40 may be a low estimate.

I hope Cousins does not resign in NO. I think their organization is unstable. Maybe not to Kings standards but still unstable.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't even limit that to "average" players, though. I already brought up Kawhi Leonard and the Kings, but I don't believe that Damian Lillard becomes DAMIAN LILLARD, if he gets drafted by the post-LeBron Cleveland Cavaliers, instead of Dion Waiters. I don't think that Paul George ever becomes PAUL GEORGE, if he gets taken fourth by the Timberwolves, instead of tenth, by the Pacers. Hell, talk about revisionist history, does anyone actually believe that Stephen Curry would have actually become STEPH CURRY, if he had gone Number One overall, to the Clippers?

I don't think that there are any more than one or two "can't miss" players in any given draft. And some draft years (*cough2013cough*) don't even have that many. How pretty much everybody else turns out is practically a roll of the dice.

 

[Glenn]

I don't even limit that to "average" players, though. I already brought up Kawhi Leonard and the Kings, but I don't believe that Damian Lillard becomes DAMIAN LILLARD, if he gets drafted by the post-LeBron Cleveland Cavaliers, instead of Dion Waiters. I don't think that Paul George ever becomes PAUL GEORGE, if he gets taken fourth by the Timberwolves, instead of tenth, by the Pacers. Hell, talk about revisionist history, does anyone actually believe that Stephen Curry would have actually become STEPH CURRY, if he had gone Number One overall, to the Clippers?

I don't think that there are any more than one or two "can't miss" players in any given draft. And some draft years (*cough2013cough*) don't even have that many. How pretty much everybody else turns out is practically a roll of the dice.

I wonder how many can't miss players are in this draft. I'm just pondering. The draft in some ways is more of a crap shoot than people might want to believe. Factoring in the marriage between a player and his team is another complication. I use the term "marriage" deliberately.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I tell you what: some of us were joking last month that the biggest winners in this trade were probably the Seventy-sixers... You know who the real biggest winner in this trade might be?


Alvin Gentry.


Because one of the few things that basketball fans of all thirty teams in the league would have agreed on is that Alvin Gentry is a ****ty coach. Like, I'm not even kidding: there would have been unanimous agreement on this issue a month ago. Twenty-five days ago, Gentry was twenty-five games away from losing his job, and now there are bewildered Pelicans fans and disgruntled Kings fans who would suggest that putting even one iota of the blame for the Pelicans losing on Gentry would be making excuses for DeMarcus Cousins.

Gentry might **** around and keep his job; that's got to be some kind of god damned magic trick.

 

[roasthawg]

I wonder how many can't miss players are in this draft. I'm just pondering. The draft in some ways is more of a crap shoot than people might want to believe. Factoring in the marriage between a player and his team is another complication. I use the term "marriage" deliberately.

I agree about the draft... I see three guys I really like, two that look solid, and then a bunch of meh after that.

That said I'm of the belief that we don't need to hit a home run in this draft. If we simply resigned collision and Lawson and brought back the same group next year I like our chances at improving based on that alone. From my vantage point we have two players who could possibly ascend as early as next season in Buddy and Skal. Willie can continue to get better and Malachi could surprise a bit as well. Papa is still an unknown with upside and there's the whole Bogdan issue as well. I'm a fan so I'm surely too optimistic but I like where we're at for the moment.

 

[Telemachus]

I tell you what: some of us were joking last month that the biggest winners in this trade were probably the Seventy-sixers... You know who the real biggest winner in this trade might be?

Alvin Gentry.

Because one of the few things that basketball fans of all thirty teams in the league would have agreed on is that Alvin Gentry is a ****ty coach. Like, I'm not even kidding: there would have been unanimous agreement on this issue a month ago. Twenty-five days ago, Gentry was twenty-five games away from losing his job, and now there are bewildered Pelicans fans and disgruntled Kings fans who would suggest that putting even one iota of the blame for the Pelicans losing on Gentry would be making excuses for DeMarcus Cousins.

Gentry might **** around and keep his job; that's got to be some kind of god damned magic trick.

For the Pelicans sake, I hope you are wrong. Gentry took an above average defensive team (on the rise) and turned them into one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

[Warhawk]

He hates all things LA and I don't think that will change. I see him in Boston.

Doubtful. Did you see these articles?

https://theringer.com/bill-simmons-demarcus-cousins-trade-analysis-27840c8cfc01#.vevidclqc

Simmons: Well, listen, if I was Phoenix, I would have tried whatever it took to get him without giving up Devin Booker and Bledsoe. Because I think I could build around those three guys and make something. But obviously they weren’t interested because they could’ve trumped that New Orleans offer in five minutes. The same thing with Boston. Boston wasn’t interested. They never even kicked the tires.

Vernon: What are the chances Vlade Divac did his due diligence on this?

Simmons: I think he did! I think he called — I think they made a list, which is basically the list I’m rattling off right now, and called all the usual suspects.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...cus-cousins/7Cgggokz7CPKgfjN2CakWM/story.html

According to league sources, a Cousins-to-Celtics trade was never going to happen because the Celtics never had any interest in acquiring him. There never were trade talks. There never were offers. Cousins-to-Boston was mostly a pipe dream concocted on the airwaves. It was never a reality, according to the sources.

The Celtics, a source said, simply could not overlook all the warning signs associated with Cousins. The forward played for six coaches during his stay in Sacramento, and Celtics staffers had spoken to most of them at various times after they left that organization.

And time and again, any mention of Cousins turned ominous, the source said. Agents for other Kings players had even reached out to teams hoping to find new homes for their clients, primarily citing the difficulties that came from playing with Cousins.