Evaluating the Cousins Trade.

ockingsfan said:
Here is another #SilverLining for everyone. :)

During the entire 2018-2019 Season, we don't have to worry about people talking about Tanking at ALL for one whole season!!! :)

Because, we don't own our own draft pick for the 2019 NBA Draft!!! :confused:
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Congratulations. You win the thread. :)
 
ockingsfan said:
Here is another #SilverLining for everyone. :)

During the entire 2018-2019 Season, we don't have to worry about people talking about Tanking at ALL for one whole season!!! :)

Because, we don't own our own draft pick for the 2019 NBA Draft!!! :confused:
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Now, that's how you do that... Why do I feel like Philadelphia media would vote Divac for Executive of the Year?
 
jcwkings said:
This trade was never about getting equal value. It was about removing Cousins from the team and reset with a new mindset. If you watched the Jazz vs Pelicans you can see what they wanted "removed". Cousins was complaining left and right, bad body language, waffling up the court and being outworked by Gobert, yelling and arguing with fans mid game, and just in general being focused on everything other than the basketball game, you do not want that from any player let alone your franchise player. All things we have seen here for seven years that have not and will likely never change. Having a player like that poisons the work environment, imagine going to work and theres a really talented guy acting the way Cousins does?
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Talent matters. If you are trading a highly talented player for a rookie over which the owner creams his pants and labels him as the next Steph Curry then you better make damn sure that you are getting a high quality player in return. We failed to do it and fairly or unfairly Buddy will get judged for as long as he is in Sacramento. It's not his fault, it is the fault of the owner and the front office for placing that expectation on him by their comments and/or behaviour.

All I am saying is that Kings might have got themselves a low level starter/role player here. The dude cannot handle the ball under pressure and to Mike Malone's credit he kept doubling up Buddy as soon as he put the ball on the floor. The last couple of days, he has had how many turnovers and in how many minutes? The numbers look UGLY for a player who was the center piece of the trade.
 
Čarolija said:
Talent matters. If you are trading a highly talented player for a rookie over which the owner creams his pants and labels him as the next Steph Curry then you better make damn sure that you are getting a high quality player in return. We failed to do it and fairly or unfairly Buddy will get judged for as long as he is in Sacramento. It's not his fault, it is the fault of the owner and the front office for placing that expectation on him by their comments and/or behaviour.

All I am saying is that Kings might have got themselves a low level starter/role player here. The dude cannot handle the ball under pressure and to Mike Malone's credit he kept doubling up Buddy as soon as he put the ball on the floor. The last couple of days, he has had how many turnovers and in how many minutes? The numbers look UGLY for a player who was the center piece of the trade.
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To his credit after that flub Buddy handled the double off the pick and roll much better. He looks like a quick learner. I really think people should put into context how Buddy is playing overall right now. He's looked like a blue chipper so far. He's got a long way to go but there is talent there and some serious scoring potential.
 
Mike said:
On paper it doesn't look good giving away a superstar player in Cousins for the return that we got for him. However, this team had peaked at around 30 wins with Cousins. There is a legitimate argument that this team was not going to get better because we don't attract big name free agents (and that will become more difficult with the new CBA), we haven't been able to draft another star, and we don't have the assets to acquire another star. Thus, the whole game plan this season was to get Joerger to work his magic with a below par roster in the hopes that he could replicate what he did last season with the Grizzlies with us. Sad thing is he hasn't managed to do that. So as good as Cousins played for us this season, he didn't make enough of a difference to carry this team into the next tier. Instead, we were on the fringes of the play offs and arguably not ascending.

Buddy might never become a star player, but he could become a useful role player off the bench, or even a decent enough starting shooting guard. Remember you don't need five all stars in the starting line up. You can get away with a couple of good starters and if Buddy can become a consistent shooter and play well defensively, then as a 3 and D player he can make a very good career for himself here.

The other thing to bear in mind is that we will get the Pelicans draft pick. With them continuing to struggle to win games that could mean we will have two top ten picks if the lottery Gods are kind to us. Obviously their pick has top three protection if memory serves, and our pick heads to Chicago if it falls outside the top ten, so we need a bit of luck to go our way to land the picks, but overall we can potentially get two good players for this team. If our front office do their job - I know that's a big ask based on their track record - then we can get two contributors in the coming draft. Remember other teams have built quality rosters without ever landing the top pick.

Warriors: Curry was picked 7th, Thompson 11th, and Green 35th. Now that is a rare line up to get a trio of all stars in those positions.
Jazz: I think the highest draft pick they have on their roster is Dante Exum who went 5th, everyone else came after that point.
Trail Blazers: Lillard 6th and McCollum 10th, and their other talent has come from all over the place.
Nuggets: generally a collection of top ten and outside top ten draft picks.

If these teams can build quality rosters, then we have the opportunity to do that if our front office do their job and get lucky. Two top ten picks, plus the young players we have on this roster, and we can start heading in the right direction, especially if our head coach and front office deliver on their promise to instil a strong culture going forwards.

So sure, this trade does look bad on the outside, but it could also be the best thing to happen to this team because it could just kickstart the next successful era in Kings basketball. As much as I love Cousins, I don't think we were ascending with him, and frankly I don't think we could ever be anything more than a fringe play off team at best with him. I think this front office made a tough decision in trading him, and for me, they made the right one to move on and start again.
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I read that and cannot agree with the bolded parts because treat them just about as given.

No matter what Vlade and his dummies say, TALENT WINS in this league and it sure as hell matters. Play off teams are built around all-star level talent at the least and contenders around superstars. There is not one team in the play offs that don't have the all-star level talent or superstar talent on their roster so this talk about "getting away with a couple of good starters" is just fantasy level stuff out of Peaches' PR book. Last time I checked, the culture matters bullcrap did not exactly help us play better as a team since the trade despite the talent level. Bottom line it, as coach Joerger said, TALENT MATTERS!

You make it given that we will get the Pelican's pick......we probably will next year the way things are going as Pelicans are closer to getting a top 3 pick than they are for pushing to the play offs for a number of reasons but I am sure people be label Cousins as the main reason.

Potentially you could get 2 very good players with the two picks provided that you get Pelican's pick this year. Potentially you can also get Robinson and Jimmer types. We have no idea what we will get and given this franchise's track record, I am not confident that they will get good players.....especially if Vivek goes into a lust mode for a player Stauskas style.
 
Čarolija said:
Talent matters. If you are trading a highly talented player for a rookie over which the owner creams his pants and labels him as the next Steph Curry then you better make damn sure that you are getting a high quality player in return. We failed to do it and fairly or unfairly Buddy will get judged for as long as he is in Sacramento. It's not his fault, it is the fault of the owner and the front office for placing that expectation on him by their comments and/or behaviour.

All I am saying is that Kings might have got themselves a low level starter/role player here. The dude cannot handle the ball under pressure and to Mike Malone's credit he kept doubling up Buddy as soon as he put the ball on the floor. The last couple of days, he has had how many turnovers and in how many minutes? The numbers look UGLY for a player who was the center piece of the trade.
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we'll forget all about him when we use both of our picks on more shooting "guards"
 
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Čarolija said:
I read that and cannot agree with the bolded parts because treat them just about as given.

No matter what Vlade and his dummies say, TALENT WINS in this league and it sure as hell matters. Play off teams are built around all-star level talent at the least and contenders around superstars. There is not one team in the play offs that don't have the all-star level talent or superstar talent on their roster so this talk about "getting away with a couple of good starters" is just fantasy level stuff out of Peaches' PR book. Last time I checked, the culture matters bullpoopoo did not exactly help us play better as a team since the trade despite the talent level. Bottom line it, as coach Joerger said, TALENT MATTERS!

You make it given that we will get the Pelican's pick......we probably will next year the way things are going as Pelicans are closer to getting a top 3 pick than they are for pushing to the play offs for a number of reasons but I am sure people be label Cousins as the main reason.

Potentially you could get 2 very good players with the two picks provided that you get Pelican's pick this year. Potentially you can also get Robinson and Jimmer types. We have no idea what we will get and given this franchise's track record, I am not confident that they will get good players.....especially if Vivek goes into a lust mode for a player Stauskas style.
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one, two, three...
 
Warhawk said:
So hold on, I'm confused.

Did Culture ever make the trip to Sacramento or did he stay in NO? Because according to Red, he was the biggest part of the trade. Frankly I don't see him contributing much yet. Is he a rookie Coach isn't playing or did I miss something?
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nah he's right there sitting next to cash considerations and capspace. It's always a big deal when we trade for them but they dont do much when they become a King. Much like all free agents but on a smaller scale.
 
steelevt said:
nah he's right there sitting next to cash considerations and capspace. It's always a big deal when we trade for them but they dont do much when they become a King. Much like all free agents but on a smaller scale.
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Hopefully he'll make a bigger dent than "flexible pieces"
 
Čarolija said:
I read that and cannot agree with the bolded parts because treat them just about as given.

No matter what Vlade and his dummies say, TALENT WINS in this league and it sure as hell matters. Play off teams are built around all-star level talent at the least and contenders around superstars. There is not one team in the play offs that don't have the all-star level talent or superstar talent on their roster so this talk about "getting away with a couple of good starters" is just fantasy level stuff out of Peaches' PR book. Last time I checked, the culture matters bullpoopoo did not exactly help us play better as a team since the trade despite the talent level. Bottom line it, as coach Joerger said, TALENT MATTERS!

You make it given that we will get the Pelican's pick......we probably will next year the way things are going as Pelicans are closer to getting a top 3 pick than they are for pushing to the play offs for a number of reasons but I am sure people be label Cousins as the main reason.

Potentially you could get 2 very good players with the two picks provided that you get Pelican's pick this year. Potentially you can also get Robinson and Jimmer types. We have no idea what we will get and given this franchise's track record, I am not confident that they will get good players.....especially if Vivek goes into a lust mode for a player Stauskas style.
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1. I said you can get away with a couple of good starters, meaning you don't need five all stars. Unfortunately I missed adding the latter to my post. As long as you have two or three all stars / borderline all stars, then yes you can get away with good players filling the other spots.

2. Yes it's not a given that we will get the Pelicans pick. As I said, we need the lottery Gods on our side. If our picks end up being #1 and #11 we have no pick and no star talent, but we could end up with #4 and #5. It's down to luck. Hopefully we are lucky.

3. Obviously our front office could screw up, but with the team arguably not heading anywhere with Cousins they had to make a decision: stay the course and hope something changes, or move on and rebuild. They picked the latter and while I could sit here and write a number of negative things about this team and front office, I am trying to be positive about the potential outcome. I'd rather post about how our rebuild can lead to better things rather than us being an Orlando Magic like team (ie some good talent but ultimately still one of the worst teams after a number of years of rebuilding).
 
Mike said:
1. I said you can get away with a couple of good starters, meaning you don't need five all stars. Unfortunately I missed adding the latter to my post. As long as you have two or three all stars / borderline all stars, then yes you can get away with good players filling the other spots.

2. Yes it's not a given that we will get the Pelicans pick. As I said, we need the lottery Gods on our side. If our picks end up being #1 and #11 we have no pick and no star talent, but we could end up with #4 and #5. It's down to luck. Hopefully we are lucky.

3. Obviously our front office could screw up, but with the team arguably not heading anywhere with Cousins they had to make a decision: stay the course and hope something changes, or move on and rebuild. They picked the latter and while I could sit here and write a number of negative things about this team and front office, I am trying to be positive about the potential outcome. I'd rather post about how our rebuild can lead to better things rather than us being an Orlando Magic like team (ie some good talent but ultimately still one of the worst teams after a number of years of rebuilding).
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Not bad but not perfect. Come to the oldster or wait for Capt. :)

It is mostly a matter of statistical probability with the lottery gods determining if we are screwed totally or treated like a King. (good pun!). We have our pick which is totally under control of the Kings except for the chance that we trade with Philly. So far they have no reason to trade as their record is worse than ours. We must hope for Philly to fold and also the Kings to fold. A swap may not be terribly important if our records are darn near similar. Then there is the NO pick which is ours unless they end up a top three pick at which time it is theirs. I curse this almost routine "top three protected" fad in so many trades. This for me would be incredibly sad. We would have their pick next year but I am in no mood for waiting given the strength of this year's draft AND the likelihood NO will be better next year. The addition of Boogie and a top three pick is a massive improvement in talent for the Pels. Worse than a top 10 pick for the Kings means we get no pick in a deal long since forgotten by me.

Sooooo, the best we could do is #2 (which means either we finished #1 and Philly finished #2 and there was a swap or Philly finished #1 and we finished #2). The NO pick could be be no lower (higher?) than #4 because of the top 3 protection. Then on the devilish side of things is if NO finished top 3 and we get nothing from them this year and we finished worse than #10 and we get nothing from our own pick.

On this date, March 8, we seem to be in good shape depending on ping pong balls which could help or hurt us. The statistical probability seems favorable.

Then there must be factored in fate as some tremendous athletes (Embiid and Odem anyone?) who may never play decent minutes. Finally there is the skill of the FO and its meddlesome owner. A simple pick of a pg and sf seems safe.
 
The Pelicans have not exactly been knocking anybody dead since they got number 0.
Buddy can play. It is such a relief to have a talented shooter that can move without the ball.
Evans may have trouble staying healthy.
This is a great year to have a shot at some high draft players.
The Warriors wasted no time in picking up Barnes and getting him into their line-up.
 
Čarolija said:
Talent matters. If you are trading a highly talented player for a rookie over which the owner creams his pants and labels him as the next Steph Curry then you better make damn sure that you are getting a high quality player in return. We failed to do it and fairly or unfairly Buddy will get judged for as long as he is in Sacramento. It's not his fault, it is the fault of the owner and the front office for placing that expectation on him by their comments and/or behaviour.

All I am saying is that Kings might have got themselves a low level starter/role player here. The dude cannot handle the ball under pressure and to Mike Malone's credit he kept doubling up Buddy as soon as he put the ball on the floor. The last couple of days, he has had how many turnovers and in how many minutes? The numbers look UGLY for a player who was the center piece of the trade.
Click to expand...

Vivek never factually compared him to Curry (unless there is a report I'm unaware of). Some idiot, I think Baxter Holmes, started that nonsense and it was ran with
 
Kingsfan23 said:
Vivek never factually compared him to Curry (unless there is a report I'm unaware of). Some idiot, I think Baxter Holmes, started that nonsense and it was ran with
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I wondered about that too. Does that story have any evidence to it because besides some copy and paste tweet I haven't seen anything to support it.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
Vivek never factually compared him to Curry (unless there is a report I'm unaware of). Some idiot, I think Baxter Holmes, started that nonsense and it was ran with
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upinsmoke said:
I wondered about that too. Does that story have any evidence to it because besides some copy and paste tweet I haven't seen anything to support it.
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Yes, the tweet in question was this: https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/status/833754906129412096

Source familiar w/ Kings’ thinking: "Vivek thinks Buddy [Hield] has Steph Curry potential.” Am told that fixation was a key driver in deal.
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John Galt said:
Like coach is saying in all the post games, they are playing their tails off. That's doing it for me.
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I can appreciate this and still be damn upset and frustrated at how the ownership/FO has handled recent things, right? You can't keep giving away talent and expect to get better. And you have to nail your draft picks. I don't know why this is so hard for the Kings to understand. Year after year we make the same stupid mistakes. I put more of that on Vivek than Vlade, though.

So while our style (and effort/attitude) is easier on the eyes than it used to be, we don't have the talent to actually pull out many wins. Make it entertaining (and ultimately very frustrating), yes. But a winning season sometime before the next two leap years have passed would be appreciated. Given our ownership track record, I'm not holding my breath on that actually happening.
 
Warhawk said:
I can appreciate this and still be damn upset and frustrated at how the ownership/FO has handled recent things, right? You can't keep giving away talent and expect to get better. And you have to nail your draft picks. I don't know why this is so hard for the Kings to understand. Year after year we make the same stupid mistakes. I put more of that on Vivek than Vlade, though.

So while our style (and effort/attitude) is easier on the eyes than it used to be, we don't have the talent to actually pull out many wins. Make it entertaining (and ultimately very frustrating), yes. But a winning season sometime before the next two leap years have passed would be appreciated. Given our ownership track record, I'm not holding my breath on that actually happening.
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Has Vlade drafted badly?

WCS : may develop into good starting C/PF - rather have him than Mudiay
Skal: Skal!
Malachi: may develop into quality SG/SF so unlucky he got hurt when he did.
Paps : he's tall
 
ESP47 said:
Would be the icing on top if the Pelicans landed a top 3 pick and wound up drafting a star with it.

Then again I don't have any trust that our front office would do anything other than draft a bust with the pick anyway. I'm sure Vlade would wind up drafting a 17 year old SG from Prussia who nobody has ever heard of with it.
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Folsomkingsfan said:
Same. After that Papagiannis pick last year I now have no faith in drafting the logical choice. This year I wouldn't be surprised if Tatum and Dennis Smith are both there when we pick and we wind up taking Isaiah Hartenstein from Germany.
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lol..I would absolutely flip my crap if this happened. Please no Vlade..
 
Čarolija said:
All I will say is that the trade looks worse by the day. Nothing against Buddy but for the life of me I cannot see how some people are thinking that he can be a special player. Other than that shot, there is not much there to hang your hat on in terms of NBA skill or game in general.

Hell when it comes to handles, Ben McLemore is Kyrie Irving compared to Buddy.
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Hield's ball handling is frustrating to watch. He easily gets trapped and his handles are really loose. We see him settle for mid-range a lot because he doesn't have the quickness to get to the rim. However, if he can knock down 3s at a great rate, then I think he has a good chance of being a solid starter. I think that's all we can ask for.

John Galt said:
Has Vlade drafted badly?

WCS : may develop into good starting C/PF - rather have him than Mudiay
Skal: Skal!
Malachi: may develop into quality SG/SF so unlucky he got hurt when he did.
Paps : he's tall
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I think Vlade has been an OK drafter. WCS was a below average pick(in comparison to what else was on the board). Malachi was a good pick. Skal was a very good pick. Papagiannis..jury is still out on this Kosta-Koufos looking player.
 
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