Evaluating the Cousins Trade.

Livinthedream said:
Seriously though. You trade your all star, Olympic gold medalist for a SG who you think is going to be a star. Then you hesitate to trade 2 SG's on your roster who aren't working out.

They are going to let Ben walk when they could have gotten something. Anything. If they try to re-sign Ben in the summer, I'm going to flip out.....Again...

Good luck Joerger.
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I thought Mclemore and Afflalo are SF and PF from now on, am I wrong?
 
Livinthedream said:
Seriously though. You trade your all star, Olympic gold medalist for a SG who you think is going to be a star. Then you hesitate to trade 2 SG's on your roster who aren't working out.

They are going to let Ben walk when they could have gotten something. Anything. If they try to re-sign Ben in the summer, I'm going to flip out.....Again...

Good luck Joerger.
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From Buddy's mouth...

Sean CunninghamVerified account‏@SeanCunningham
In his 2 games in Sacramento as a member of the Pelicans, Buddy Hield said Kings owner Vivek Ranadive would say: 'we're still gonna get you'

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/2/22/14705772/kings-owner-told-buddy-hield-were-still-gonna-get-you


Vivek really thinks he got a steal here. He'll probably be getting to the arena early today to help play ball boy for Buddy so he can put up 200 shots before tip off to ensure he has a Steph Curry like debut.
 
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Peter_Gibbons said:
From Buddy's mouth...

Sean CunninghamVerified account‏@SeanCunningham
In his 2 games in Sacramento as a member of the Pelicans, Buddy Hield said Kings owner Vivek Ranadive would say: 'we're still gonna get you'

Vivek really thinks he got a steal here. He'll probably be getting to the arena early today to help play ball boy for Buddy so he can put up 200 shots before tip off to ensure he has a Steph Curry like debut.
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Oh my.

This is just comical at this point. Maybe it wasn't about committing the money to Cuz. Maybe it was, seriously, about Buddy Hield.
 
Remember that one time Vivek told Pete to get Rudy Gay for him? At your service. Doesn't matter if Pete and co. weren't interested in him, he was.
 
Peter_Gibbons said:
This is creepy as hell and I hope Vivek gets slapped with the biggest tampering fine possible.
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Vivek strikes me as a very creepy dude. It's almost like he gets a fetish (yes, in that way) for certain players, and then "gets off" by bringing them here.

Sorry for is distasteful post, but I am earthing for reasons why this keeps happening.

Also, I'm not familiar with the tampering laws. Would this qualify?
 
The Hammer said:
Vivek strikes me as a very creepy dude. It's almost like he gets a fetish (yes, in that way) for certain players, and then "gets off" by bringing them here.

Sorry for is distasteful post, but I am earthing for reasons why this keeps happening.

Also, I'm not familiar with the tampering laws. Would this qualify?
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Just of the media people who covered it, including Jason Jones said it would be tampering. I'm sure Vivek deserves a fine and/or some punishment if Adam Silver goes by the books.
 
The Hammer said:
Vivek strikes me as a very creepy dude. It's almost like he gets a fetish (yes, in that way) for certain players, and then "gets off" by bringing them here.

Sorry for is distasteful post, but I am earthing for reasons why this keeps happening.

Also, I'm not familiar with the tampering laws. Would this qualify?
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not distasteful at all. dude gets a tent everytime a competent 3 point shooter launches one from behind the arc
 
Boogie got his 18th technical foul 32 seconds in tonights game vs Thunder. He will be suspended for next home against vs. Pistons unless the technical is rescinded. Anyone feeling better about the trade yet? :cool:
 
Blob said:
Boogie got his 18th technical foul 32 seconds in tonights game vs Thunder. He will be suspended for next home against vs. Pistons unless the technical is rescinded. Anyone feeling better about the trade yet? :cool:
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I was until he started putting everything he touched into the bucket in the second.

It's gonna be weird because of course I want the Pels to struggle and struggle bad... so we get their high pick. But if they struggle too much and they lotto into the first three picks.... dang
 
John Galt said:
I was until he started putting everything he touched into the bucket in the second.

It's gonna be weird because of course I want the Pels to struggle and struggle bad... so we get their high pick. But if they struggle too much and they lotto into the first three picks.... dang
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That would be terrible if NOP gets Top 3 we need both those picks! Chad Ford has us taking Jason Taytum and De'Aaron Fox at #8 and #11 in his latest mock draft. This draft must be special because those guys look very talented. I haven't done any scouting other than form a few observations: Lonzo Ball is overrated. Terrible build doesn't play D. Markelle Fultz is great. I mean great! I think he can take the league by storm. I think he goes #1.

Taytum looks like a young Rudy Gay. Super impressive. Hopefully he plays D better than Rudy! De' Aaron Fox looks like a longer quicker bouncier Cameron Payne. Now think about this. The Bulls gave up Gibson and McDermott to get Payne, a guy they think can be their starting PG. We know Vlade loved Payne pre-draft and almost made trade before draft. Then we were going after him this year before Rudy went down. Now all we have to do is lose to possibly get prospect better than Payne? A position of need with two pending UFAs? Just lose baby! Both these guys could go Top 5 in last years draft, so that's how we should look at the picks 8-12 or thereabouts.

Now about Boogie. Just made a dumb foul to get whistled for 4th with 10:00 to go in 3rd quarter. This is crucial game for the Pelicans and he has to play smarter!
 
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Blob said:
Boogie got his 18th technical foul 32 seconds in tonights game vs Thunder. He will be suspended for next home against vs. Pistons unless the technical is rescinded. Anyone feeling better about the trade yet? :cool:
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Let me put it this way....even if

- Boogie did not play a single game for the rest of the season AND
- Pelicans got pick 4 because it AND
- Kings got a top 2 pick of their own (Philly got pick 1) because they suck so bad and finally got lucky in the lottery AND
- Pick from the Philly is essentially a late 1st round pick AND
- Kings drafted 3 excellent players with those picks

It still doesn't change the fact that the trade itself was crap!

Chances of all of those things happening? Sweet **** All!
 
Blob said:
Boogie got his 18th technical foul 32 seconds in tonights game vs Thunder. He will be suspended for next home against vs. Pistons unless the technical is rescinded. Anyone feeling better about the trade yet? :cool:
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To be quite honest, I still have mixed feelings and thoughts about the trade and it changes all the time. I didn't realize how bad that Pels team was going to be minus the three players we got in return. It may not matter if Cousins doesn't play here and there because of techs, that team is going nowhere faster than the Kings.
 
I've yet to see any argument that convinces me that Cuz wasn't becoming more perimeter oriented due to his own volition. If we needed a stretch big, we can get one. His strength is bully/post play, and I would just see more and more reasoning why he was only utilizing that a fourth of his offense these last few years. How about his conditioning isn't up to par and it takes more energy to run 4/5 of the court and fight for position? Or maybe he thought he was Dirk. I don't see why Joerger would t want him exploiting his strengths? Then it became because we didn't have a true PG? How about his creating offense from the block and not the top of the key and letting the shooters feed off it?

One of the clear reasons the FO maybe didn't value him was his refusal to play to his strengths. Maybe they thought it was pulling hairs just to get him on the block?
 
Čarolija said:
Let me put it this way....even if

- Boogie did not play a single game for the rest of the season AND
- Pelicans got pick 4 because it AND
- Kings got a top 2 pick of their own (Philly got pick 1) because they suck so bad and finally got lucky in the lottery AND
- Pick from the Philly is essentially a late 1st round pick AND
- Kings drafted 3 excellent players with those picks

It still doesn't change the fact that the trade itself was poopoo!

Chances of all of those things happening? Sweet **** All!
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I agree it is a crap trade regardless based on risk/reward and awful and panicked negotiating tactics. But to play along with your hypothetical if it turns out to be Buddy, the #2 and #4 in 2017 draft vs. paying Boogie $209M and losing our pick to CHI (which would've happened if we kept him), then it turns into a good trade. Not because of judgment but amazing luck. I say that not trusting Vlade as a drafter either. But the draft is so strong, it will be hard to mess it up. He doesn't have to be brilliant to get it right or semi-right.

As an aside and as a lot of us speculated Vlade said in Bee interview the 2017 #1 and 2019 #1 was on the table from NOP, then pulled when Dan Fegan meddled. If this was the haul with no protection, there would have been less backlash, though still not a great deal. He also said if his decision does not work out he will step down in two years. This is interesting because it implies (1) the decision was his and his alone and (2) he will last that long in current capacity to see how this plays out.
 
Thats pretty vague about stepping down if it does not work out. By who's criteria will that be decided?

At any rate, if we end up with 2 top 10 picks I will be extatic. If for nothing else for the potential the picks would represent. Faith in how we would use them is another matter.
 
Blob said:
I agree it is a poopoo trade regardless based on risk/reward and awful and panicked negotiating tactics. But to play along with your hypothetical if it turns out to be Buddy, the #2 and #4 in 2017 draft vs. paying Boogie $209M and losing our pick to CHI (which would've happened if we kept him), then it turns into a good trade. Not because of judgment but amazing luck. I say that not trusting Vlade as a drafter either. But the draft is so strong, it will be hard to mess it up. He doesn't have to be brilliant to get it right or semi-right.

As an aside and as a lot of us speculated Vlade said in Bee interview the 2017 #1 and 2019 #1 was on the table from NOP, then pulled when Dan Fegan meddled. If this was the haul with no protection, there would have been less backlash, though still not a great deal. He also said if his decision does not work out he will step down in two years. This is interesting because it implies (1) the decision was his and his alone and (2) he will last that long in current capacity to see how this plays out.
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It wouldn't be a good trade. It would just mean Kings got really lucky! Doesn't change the fact that it was a crap deal to start off with.

I am not sure why people point out that Fegan cost the Kings a 1st round pick. What exactly did they expect him to do. Surely our front office is not that amateurish to expect agents to keep out of it if it is damaging their client. Fegan and his agency did exactly what you would expect the player agent to do and that is to try and make the best possible deal for their client. Their angle has obviously been to scare teams off so that the offers Kings get for Cousins are well below par to the point where the Kings say no to them. The trade was going to cost their client some $80 million. Any client worth a crumpet would do exactly what Fagan did and if the Kings did not expect that, well then that says more about them than it does about the agents. And that is well before we start getting into the integrity angle of one week saying we are not trading Cousins and we talking about parameters of the extension to next week trading him for ridiculously underwhelming offer.

No matter what happens from this point onward, the deal itself has been and will continue to be crap.
 
Čarolija said:
It wouldn't be a good trade. It would just mean Kings got really lucky! Doesn't change the fact that it was a poopoo deal to start off with.

I am not sure why people point out that Fegan cost the Kings a 1st round pick. What exactly did they expect him to do. Surely our front office is not that amateurish to expect agents to keep out of it if it is damaging their client. Fegan and his agency did exactly what you would expect the player agent to do and that is to try and make the best possible deal for their client. Their angle has obviously been to scare teams off so that the offers Kings get for Cousins are well below par to the point where the Kings say no to them. The trade was going to cost their client some $80 million. Any client worth a crumpet would do exactly what Fagan did and if the Kings did not expect that, well then that says more about them than it does about the agents. And that is well before we start getting into the integrity angle of one week saying we are not trading Cousins and we talking about parameters of the extension to next week trading him for ridiculously underwhelming offer.

No matter what happens from this point onward, the deal itself has been and will continue to be poopoo.
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I said similar thing re: Fegan in my rant post. Vlade was naive to expect cooperation from a player agent and let him dictate the narrative to Pelicans. He needed to step back and see it from Gentry and Demps perspective. Their team has struggled mightily to put cast around Davis. Both coach and GM are on verge of being fired if they did not make a playoff run. In adding Boogie, they had to see that as chance to turn around the season AND save their jobs! Vlade could have preyed upon this desperation leading up to the deadline by walking away from trade talks and subtly letting Pelicans know the Lakers and Suns were engaged in talks too. But Vlade does not have that skill set in him. He's not shrewd or cunning. He lets his counterpart dictate the terms and conditions just like he did with Hinkie. To be blunt he allowed himself to be screwed.
 
Big Cuz 15 said:
UGH is NO Tanking?? vlade should've forced for unprotected pick.
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No they are just bad, outside of AD and Cousins and theoretically Holiday(who has sucked since the trade) that roster is an embarassment. Also Cousins and AD dont really mesh together, they will definitely have to work on their synergy.
 
jcwkings said:
No they are just bad, outside of AD and Cousins and theoretically Holiday(who has sucked since the trade) that roster is an embarassment. Also Cousins and AD dont really mesh together, they will definitely have to work on their synergy.
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AD/Boogie will be fine next year they've literally had like 2 practices together
 
MRW Demarcus goes off for 31/10/3 in 21 minutes

ragecomic.png
 
Even if it was time to move on from Cuz, which is arguable....

...resign him, and then start the bidding war after he's locked in to a long term contract. We just had to wait it out until the summer and we could have gotten so much for the dude.

But no, Vivek just haaaaaad to have Buddy. Idiot.
 
gunks said:
Even if it was time to move on from Cuz, which is arguable....

...resign him, and then start the bidding war after he's locked in to a long term contract. We just had to wait it out until the summer and we could have gotten so much for the dude.

But no, Vivek just haaaaaad to have Buddy. Idiot.
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I thought I read somewhere that they couldn't trade him for a year after the extension. So if the organization had decided they were in a rut with Cuz, they had to move him now for the best they could get.

I totally get people being pissed that the Kings traded away the best player, but I don't really get all the ruminating over what we got in return. We got what we got... and it is better than getting a little bit more equity and sending him to the Lakers.
 
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