KingsFanGER
Starter
The story repeats the same assumptions about vivek we got used to in the past couple of months. Nothing really new and not more than a few quotes taken out of the context to back it up.
ESPN the Magazine article on Vivek: The Fast and the Curious
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Asked to describe Ranadive's involvement with Reno, Arsenault says, "He's the guy who is promoting the whole creative thought. He's the mastermind behind the whole plan."
And what exactly is that plan?
Arsenault pauses, his face stuck in a rictus of hesitation. To this point, he's had the timing just so. He starts to answer, stops, shrugs and finally says, "That's the million-dollar question."
That speaks volumes, in an article filled with red flags.
And what exactly is that plan?
Arsenault pauses, his face stuck in a rictus of hesitation. To this point, he's had the timing just so. He starts to answer, stops, shrugs and finally says, "That's the million-dollar question."
That speaks volumes, in an article filled with red flags.
The Hammer
All-Star
From the article...
Oh... oh lord.
Oh... oh lord.
The Hammer
All-Star
Insightful as usual LD. Glad you're posting again.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I like how all the talk from the front office and Vivek recently has been "We don't make suggestions to our coaches" despite the fact that when Tyrone Corbin took over as coach, he employed a fast style that went completely against what Malone was running and any system Ty had been running in the past and matched the calls for a faster-paced offense we'd been hearing about through the media.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I think we should all know by now that Vivek, PDA and Mullin are bullcrap artists and everything they say shall not be trusted. If this season has taught us anything, its that these idiots are not trustworthy at all! Spin, spin, spin and more spin. That's what they keep trying to shove down our throats.
KingsFanGER
Starter
I may be once again lost in translation, but didn't Vivek say, that HE didn't make suggestions to the coaches? That leaves Pete as the one, who is in contact with the coach concerning the playstyle of the team and needs to be on the same page with him. But after all this is pretty normal for a GM or not?
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
great. validated the crap we've been wondering on the forums.
Chubbs
Starter
Yes, in Vivek's mind, him telling the gm his crazy ideas and those being relayed to the coach through the GM is totally different than vivek talking to the coach directly. Those stories are way off.
Except several stories all along have said PDA is the errand boy, charged with relaying whatever whim or delusion Vivek the V-Speaking Silicon Valley duchebag wants to try next.
It's a heck of a coincidence that Reno is Vivek's personal lab pushing faster pace, and somehow that same philosophy leaked to the pro team, despite Vivek not telling the coach what to do. It's almost like him being the owner, means the people directly reporting to him are trying to do the things he wants. Like if they didn't they'd be fired.
Maybe because that's what happened to Malone.
And corbin too in a sense. He was sure making a big deal about pace in interviews. As if to say, see boss, I'm trying your crazy crap, just doing what I'm told. Didn't work for him either.
What's karl to do? Well, move rudy to the 4 apparently.
KingsFanGER
Starter
All those stories were pretty much guesses from so called experts or not?
Every little bit of information is exaggerated into some kind of scandal. PDA admits he was wrong with the firing, but hey he is just some guy lying all the time. There must be more going on behind the scenes, than a GM and a coach not on the same page in terms of playstyle right? Everyone mentioning pace and fluid offense is just some guy wanting to play nellie ball right? Rudy at the 4 - oh no the hall of fame coach doesn't know what's best for our players right? Ranadive is meddling with the NBA-Team cause he is meddling in Reno right? After all this is all a conspiracy to finally trade DMC right?
I'm sorry - this is nothing personal, I try to respect every opinion and I know that I'm in the minority around here, but to me it looks like people tend to overreact to everything after Malone got fired. There has to be a scapegoat right?
Every little bit of information is exaggerated into some kind of scandal. PDA admits he was wrong with the firing, but hey he is just some guy lying all the time. There must be more going on behind the scenes, than a GM and a coach not on the same page in terms of playstyle right? Everyone mentioning pace and fluid offense is just some guy wanting to play nellie ball right? Rudy at the 4 - oh no the hall of fame coach doesn't know what's best for our players right? Ranadive is meddling with the NBA-Team cause he is meddling in Reno right? After all this is all a conspiracy to finally trade DMC right?
I'm sorry - this is nothing personal, I try to respect every opinion and I know that I'm in the minority around here, but to me it looks like people tend to overreact to everything after Malone got fired. There has to be a scapegoat right?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Well, if every single person (national media types like Amick, Woj, Lowe, Harper, local media guys, fans, and everyone else in between) is "guessing" the same thing, there's a decent possibility that the idea in question is not far off from the truth. And given management's utter inability to keep a secret/not talk to the media like a gabby middle school cheerleader/shoot itself in the foot and try to shut the wound with lemon juice, you don't really have to be Rust Cohle to connect the dots.
J
jdbraver
Guest
Love how people Judge others through what they hear in the media. Remember #hellastorm and #brianwilliams #sensationalizingSells folks.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Not just the media though. Just about everyone I know around the team (admittedly not that many but guys that I do trust) and everyone talking about it in the media as well present the same image of Vivek as being a bit of a kook and a dick out of touch with the realities of the NBA. The only ones NOT presenting this image of Vivek are either (a) on Vivek's payroll (Leslie Moore, PDA), (b) blindly optimistic fans (there's nothing wrong with being this), (c) other Silicon Valley guys, or (d) guys who have something to lose if the guy goes boobies up.
I mean, there is a reason that the man is being sued by the guy who initially brought him into the Kings ownership group (Darius Anderson).
When everyone is saying the same thing, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's the truth.
Is there anything wrong with being a crazy person or an butthead? Nope. Hell, I'm a dude who probably fits into both categories just as much as Ranadive does. The key is to channel these traits into something beneficial to the team (i.e. popularizing the Kings in international markets, developing downtown Sacramento, modernizing our scouting department) rather than whatever the hell the last three months of the season have been.
And I'm not saying he can't ever become a successful NBA owner, just that if he continues this erratic trend of Incompetent Ownership 3.0 he won't be.
Larry David
Starter
The cherry picking stuff is pretty great
* I didn't advocate cherry picking
* When were in a strategy meeting discussing our bench, I asked whether we should consider cherry picking.
* It is totally fine that I advocated cherry picking because lots of people emailed to say I wasn't the first person to think it.
* In fact, one owner said he's been trying to figure out if cherry picking is a good idea for years.
Oh my, he thinks we are living on the cutting edge because he asks "outside of the box questions" to see where we can reshape the entire sport of basketball and it won't impact who wants to work with him. Plus, how many do you think were sent as being kind "don't feel bad" emails and our owner who doesn't appear good at reading people or grasping how out of his depth he is right now construes them as folks vindicating his decisions to throw crazy poop at the wall in significant strategy sessions.
Man, our bench is an issue. I know everybody is moving toward rest, but you think we should consider extending the starters? Maybe try to get Landry off on the block for bench scoring?
Well coach, what if we just try cherry picking? What if we sign the world's tallest man? What if we signed conjoined twins and counted them as one player? Have we considered dimming the lights in the gym when Demarcus rests? Do you think it would help if I put frozen yougurt in my shoes?
Obviously I kid, but our owner thinks that constantly asking crazy questions to folks who have to listen to him will make us the NBA money ball x 100. If this keeps up, we are going to be a bigger joke than the 80s Clippers
* I didn't advocate cherry picking
* When were in a strategy meeting discussing our bench, I asked whether we should consider cherry picking.
* It is totally fine that I advocated cherry picking because lots of people emailed to say I wasn't the first person to think it.
* In fact, one owner said he's been trying to figure out if cherry picking is a good idea for years.
Oh my, he thinks we are living on the cutting edge because he asks "outside of the box questions" to see where we can reshape the entire sport of basketball and it won't impact who wants to work with him. Plus, how many do you think were sent as being kind "don't feel bad" emails and our owner who doesn't appear good at reading people or grasping how out of his depth he is right now construes them as folks vindicating his decisions to throw crazy poop at the wall in significant strategy sessions.
Man, our bench is an issue. I know everybody is moving toward rest, but you think we should consider extending the starters? Maybe try to get Landry off on the block for bench scoring?
Well coach, what if we just try cherry picking? What if we sign the world's tallest man? What if we signed conjoined twins and counted them as one player? Have we considered dimming the lights in the gym when Demarcus rests? Do you think it would help if I put frozen yougurt in my shoes?
Obviously I kid, but our owner thinks that constantly asking crazy questions to folks who have to listen to him will make us the NBA money ball x 100. If this keeps up, we are going to be a bigger joke than the 80s Clippers
Larry David
Starter
You nailed it. This is a national writer gently calling an owner a guy that is either a nut or completely oblivious to how both bad and corrosive his "chief irritant" role is. Unless folks work for the team, much of the local media (100% of khtk) or the city, this is consistent with the slow drum beat that has been slowly coming out for a year.
If you want to waste your time treating India like its the Fairfield market, knock yourself out. But don't pretend that being Dan Snyder without a clue, any sense of self awareness or much people skills is a good thing.
I get why folks will want to spin or deny he's an odd duck and probably a bad owner. It's unlikely he sells the team for at least 5 years and he's on track to hold this team back. It is just grim.
The Hammer
All-Star
It's shocking how vehemently out of touch this guy is with how he's perceived. When you keep repeating your same TED talk slogans over and over (it's been two years now)... he simply does not see how insulting that is to fans' intelligence. Is he just going to come up with new slogans in a few years? Or are we going to be hearing the same pat answers spit out by the algorithm he is using that keeps producing the same answers. It's like he thinks talking to people is a math problem, and he's convinced his answer is right, and he just keep repeating it. The problem really seems to be... he has no idea how to relate to actual people at all, let alone one of the most basketball savvy fanbases in the league.
The Hammer
All-Star
How else are you supposed to judge public figures? Have them over for dinner?
"The Media" is actually the only way anybody gets any information about anything Kings related. There's been a TON of information coming out (plus observable behavior) that have shaped the attitudes that patient, loving, supporting, enthusiastic Kings fans have about Vivek. We're talking 2 years now. It's not a snap judgement... you'll recall the incredible amount of goodwill Vivek started out with. He could basically do no wrong... for a while. Kings fans in general very patient, forgiving, and fair.
If you mean condemning the man's soul (capital J), no one is doing that. So maybe you can stop with the #sensationalizingSells bs?
We're evaluating his competency as the CEO of our beloved Kings. The fans pay his goddamn salary and enrich his investment. They have every right (and responsibility) to "judge" him from what they hear through "the media".
The reason this piece is striking such a chord is because it's a big national piece that sums up and details out a lot of what we've been perceiving on a local level for many months, not because people are quick to judge. We've been remarkably SLOW to judge Vivek (me included).
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PurpleHaze
All-Star
I thought among NBA owners only Mark Cuban was eccentric fool in perennial hanging baggy t-shirt. Vivek Ranadive is only better dressed.
The Hammer
All-Star
They're worlds apart. Cuban is a tech guy, but he's MILES ahead in terms of understanding people and communicating. He allows himself the crazy ideas... but they're not completely out of touch. And he doesn't lack the awareness of himself in relation to his environment. Vivek strikes me as somewhere on the autism spectrum if I'm being honest. From our perspective it's like "He can't actually expect us to believe the b.s. he's shoveling, right". But from his perspective he seems to have no idea what we're talking about. He just happens to be really good at a couple things math/software related and also really rich... so people in his inner circle aren't exactly eager to point this out to him... the problem, I fear and suspect, is that even if they did, he wouldn't have the capacity to integrate that information.
Let's not conflate eccentric and genuinely forward thinking with someone who simply lacks communication skills.
whozit
Starter
Or could be as simple as, maybe the man is shallow, maybe very shallow. Am I concerned about the damage he has done and might do again in the future? Yes. How he is perceived or even how he thinks he is perceived? No, he's only a man that happens to own the team that I follow, nothing more.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Yeah, I agree - it was more tongue and cheek. Cuban has NBA championship under his belt. At this FO stumbling juncture all Vivek gives for inspiration is wow the crowd V-speak, silly hand signs, and always, always, always, I hire people smarter than me.
Larry David
Starter
Mark Cuban is an attention whore, who harps on the refs and spends a lot on extra eminities but otherwise runs his team like 20 other owners.
Imo, he is not an eccentric person. Despite regularly making himself available to the local and national media for one on ones, he's painted as too much of a fan but not someone that lacks the common sense or self awareness for his franchise to effectively function. People are quietly saying that about our owner. Being new at your job and acting like a person with a loose screw are not the same thing.
Our owner is losing his fan base at breakneck speed. If he was a normal petson and capable of effective human interaction, at some point a team would push him out before the general media (not PR KHTK) for a little availability with the Bee Fox 40 ect to both face a few real questions and mostly just act like a person that's got a clue. Instead, it appears he's being walled off by employees trying to protect both him and the Kings brand. They don't want to see 5 points 2.0.
A year ago today, he was still the savior of Sacramento. Now it appears they decided to keep him out of the Karl presser because his presence is at best a distraction from the Karl excitement / they know the media is interested in finding out if this guy is a little nutty. They guy behind the curtain appears to a problem and that's becoming apparent.
I'm sure folks will cherry pick the few weak points in this story or claim there is bad bias to dismiss it. I'd like to point out that's what happened after Bill Simmons' flawed Maloof piece about 3 years ago and in hindsight that so so piece was considerably closer to the truth than everything on KHTK and most of the talk here. Im totally cool with blind loyalty and hoping for the best, but objectively the red flags are popping up at an alarming rate.
Imo, he is not an eccentric person. Despite regularly making himself available to the local and national media for one on ones, he's painted as too much of a fan but not someone that lacks the common sense or self awareness for his franchise to effectively function. People are quietly saying that about our owner. Being new at your job and acting like a person with a loose screw are not the same thing.
Our owner is losing his fan base at breakneck speed. If he was a normal petson and capable of effective human interaction, at some point a team would push him out before the general media (not PR KHTK) for a little availability with the Bee Fox 40 ect to both face a few real questions and mostly just act like a person that's got a clue. Instead, it appears he's being walled off by employees trying to protect both him and the Kings brand. They don't want to see 5 points 2.0.
A year ago today, he was still the savior of Sacramento. Now it appears they decided to keep him out of the Karl presser because his presence is at best a distraction from the Karl excitement / they know the media is interested in finding out if this guy is a little nutty. They guy behind the curtain appears to a problem and that's becoming apparent.
I'm sure folks will cherry pick the few weak points in this story or claim there is bad bias to dismiss it. I'd like to point out that's what happened after Bill Simmons' flawed Maloof piece about 3 years ago and in hindsight that so so piece was considerably closer to the truth than everything on KHTK and most of the talk here. Im totally cool with blind loyalty and hoping for the best, but objectively the red flags are popping up at an alarming rate.
kingjatt
Starter
He hit it big in software because he spent his whole life preparing himself for it. His ego has gotten him to think he can do the same in basketball when he doesnt have a clue. Brace yourselves folks its looking like our drought will be extended until he can figure out that he should just sign checks and stay out of the way.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Yes, in Vivek's mind, him telling the gm his crazy ideas and those being relayed to the coach through the GM is totally different than vivek talking to the coach directly. Those stories are way off.
Except several stories all along have said PDA is the errand boy, charged with relaying whatever whim or delusion Vivek the V-Speaking Silicon Valley duchebag wants to try next.
It's a heck of a coincidence that Reno is Vivek's personal lab pushing faster pace, and somehow that same philosophy leaked to the pro team, despite Vivek not telling the coach what to do. It's almost like him being the owner, means the people directly reporting to him are trying to do the things he wants. Like if they didn't they'd be fired.
Maybe because that's what happened to Malone.
And corbin too in a sense. He was sure making a big deal about pace in interviews. As if to say, see boss, I'm trying your crazy poopoo, just doing what I'm told. Didn't work for him either.
What's karl to do? Well, move rudy to the 4 apparently.
In the real world there is nothing wrong with an owner running ideas past the GM BUT, if the GM has some sense of self confidence and job security, he will push back or agree. This will mean the ultimate decision is the GM's.
Everybody on the planet earth with an interest in the Kings knows what Vivek expects so Vivek saying he doesn't communicate with the coach is meaningless as the coach can get information from multiple sources including me.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
He probably even went to school to get some learnin' about software.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I am not terribly confident in what I am about to say so let's start with that.
Vivek took over the Kings with arrogance and confidence perhaps that he would change basketball forevermore. That seems clear. Now we have to hope that he can change.
He has changed his story so as to deny he would meddle in any way. Whether that is the truth or not, it means he knows such meddling is wrong. He knows the crapstorm that this season turned into with the loss of money and respect may have been his fault. So now he denies or lies - it makes some difference as to whether he is denying or lying but my original fear was that he had no awareness of how bat crap crazy he appeared to be may be wrong. I am saying he has the capacity to change and may be changing.
Now, is he lying?
Vivek took over the Kings with arrogance and confidence perhaps that he would change basketball forevermore. That seems clear. Now we have to hope that he can change.
He has changed his story so as to deny he would meddle in any way. Whether that is the truth or not, it means he knows such meddling is wrong. He knows the crapstorm that this season turned into with the loss of money and respect may have been his fault. So now he denies or lies - it makes some difference as to whether he is denying or lying but my original fear was that he had no awareness of how bat crap crazy he appeared to be may be wrong. I am saying he has the capacity to change and may be changing.
Now, is he lying?
Larry David
Starter
Can one both: (1) claim not to be a meddler; and (2) proudly proclaim your role is the chief irritant, who always asks everybody lots off "outside the box questions" and encourages "making different mistakes"? I'm having a hard time seeing how you slice the point that thin.
I own the team, and I'm always walking around asking my subordinates stuff like "Shouldn't we play faster? Why aren't we pressing? Should we play Nik more? Should we trade Nik now for a vet? Should Rudy play more 4? And I'm not a meddling owner? Do I have to walk into practice and tell the coach to try a press right now be a meddling owner?
It's your new toy. Ask some questions, even dumb ones. If you truly hire smart and qualified people, let them do their jobs. They will loop you into conversations that show they are doing their jobs well, educate you, and service the owner. When there are big ticket issues like a trade they will seek your input and they would embrace you asking lots of questions so you give a full and educated sign off on the move.
Constantly asking everybody bizarre stuff makes you at best butthead at some point. You can treat young people in Silicon Valley that way because it's the culture and there is a line of qualified people waiting often literally outside the gates willing to try to do more for less money. If our owner ever wants to hire a top 10 GM or coach, he should probably stop thinking that being a clueless irritant all the time is going to take Sacramento to NBA 3.0.
I own the team, and I'm always walking around asking my subordinates stuff like "Shouldn't we play faster? Why aren't we pressing? Should we play Nik more? Should we trade Nik now for a vet? Should Rudy play more 4? And I'm not a meddling owner? Do I have to walk into practice and tell the coach to try a press right now be a meddling owner?
It's your new toy. Ask some questions, even dumb ones. If you truly hire smart and qualified people, let them do their jobs. They will loop you into conversations that show they are doing their jobs well, educate you, and service the owner. When there are big ticket issues like a trade they will seek your input and they would embrace you asking lots of questions so you give a full and educated sign off on the move.
Constantly asking everybody bizarre stuff makes you at best butthead at some point. You can treat young people in Silicon Valley that way because it's the culture and there is a line of qualified people waiting often literally outside the gates willing to try to do more for less money. If our owner ever wants to hire a top 10 GM or coach, he should probably stop thinking that being a clueless irritant all the time is going to take Sacramento to NBA 3.0.
Larry David
Starter
In the end, it seems like Malone was mostly fired because he stopped fielding all of the nutty questions with any tact or respect at some point. Sure, he wasn't running the offense Vivek and PDA wanted and that will get you fired, but it seems like he got abrupt shipped because "nobody talks to me like that." It is hard to say, but I wouldn't put much stock into what PDA says because his primary job is to protect the owner. PDA wanted one of 30 GM jobs. He's probably going to fail here at some point. If he protects an eccentric owner and has some success in spite of him, he might get to sit in the big chair again elsewhere. If he points the finger to his owner, he probably won't.
The current Kings narrative is that Vivek is asking (most likely on more than one occasion) whether cherry picking is the solution to our bench problems in a high level think session and always acting as chief irritant on numerous topics ... but he's the rare owner that doesn't want final sign off on a GM decision to fire a coach? Come on now Vivek, that's nuts. If you knew anything about basketball, you'd know that's crazy.
The Maloofs sucked, but they knew enough to keep their hands and bad ideas at least out of the papers until they'd got their feet wet for 2-3 years. If you don't have more common sense that the Maloof boys, this is going to end very badly.
Flat out, this stuff is leaking out because some people clearly don't enjoy working for him and are trying to shame him into changing. Between Shareef, Malone, and whoever else keeps taking, it's not isolated.
PDA is a rookie, Mully was out of basketball for a while, and Karl is working his last job. Karl is smart enough to massage Vivek and will be firm at times, but if you think Karl is going to give Vivek the Art Howe from moneyball treatment regularly, I think you are kidding yourselves.
The current Kings narrative is that Vivek is asking (most likely on more than one occasion) whether cherry picking is the solution to our bench problems in a high level think session and always acting as chief irritant on numerous topics ... but he's the rare owner that doesn't want final sign off on a GM decision to fire a coach? Come on now Vivek, that's nuts. If you knew anything about basketball, you'd know that's crazy.
The Maloofs sucked, but they knew enough to keep their hands and bad ideas at least out of the papers until they'd got their feet wet for 2-3 years. If you don't have more common sense that the Maloof boys, this is going to end very badly.
Flat out, this stuff is leaking out because some people clearly don't enjoy working for him and are trying to shame him into changing. Between Shareef, Malone, and whoever else keeps taking, it's not isolated.
PDA is a rookie, Mully was out of basketball for a while, and Karl is working his last job. Karl is smart enough to massage Vivek and will be firm at times, but if you think Karl is going to give Vivek the Art Howe from moneyball treatment regularly, I think you are kidding yourselves.
The Hammer
All-Star
Damn LD. Your posts reign supreme!
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