ESPN : The Madness of Kings

#31
By the way, this article is really about slowly transitioning Cuz to become the face of the league and media darling. They know he is also the most watchable player on the planet right now.
everyone has their agenda it seems...

glad boogie is ours

the national narative is slowly changing but at the end of the day winning is the final piece
 
#34
Long, informative article, but you should note how PDA's involvement is completely left out. Even the IT trade is listed under the Vlade section when PDA proudly made that trade. So I figure the amount of Vivek shots are coming from the PDA influence. It still has interesting stuff in it.
For me it's a hit piece on Kings/Cousins/Vivek

Even discussing Cousins value the writer just speaks on opposing GMs having negative views
 
#35
I just read the garbage piece, or tried to. Firing Malone wasn't Vivek, and I stopped reading there.
Huh?
Edit: i saw you elaborate above. I don't think it's a hit piece at all. I thought it was a very fair, well written article. If anything I thought they really portrayed DMC in a more positive light....not focusing just on the negatives but also highlighting the positives and why he is such an enigma. Touched on everything I really like about Cousins and everything about him that drives me crazy. Everything else also seemed to be pretty spot on and not written from the perspective of someone who had an ax to grind
 
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#38
Something interesting is how Cousins reasons his beef with the refs partially stems from the fact that they tell the captains that they would be happy to answer any questions during the game but refuses to listen when he does ask them about calls.
That jumped out to me too, and it's so obvious watching the games that there are refs who come into the game with no intention of being reasonable. We all know there's a double standard in how fouls and technicals are assessed. DeMarcus is one of the few players unwilling to just accept it and that's to his credit (he's nothing if not straightforward) and to his detriment. Almost every conversation I have with Kings fans eventually works it's way back to Cousins arguing with refs when he should be playing defense but it's hard for me to find much fault in DeMarcus' refusal to just put his head down and roll with the bad calls because I know I would react the same way he does in that situation until years of futility pounded the defiance out of me. But that's not changing your mind, it's cowing to authority and there's a part of me that wants to see him rewarded for continuing to take a stand against the injustice beyond all reason. 96% of us would have given up the fight by now and DeMarcus is more emboldened than ever. I admire him for that. His defiance hurts the team at times -- quite a lot of times actually -- but he's got a point. And it's a point nobody else is taking a stand for.
 
#39
What point are you trying to make? Cousins complains more than any current NBA player, and it's not even close. I think Kings fans have just been accustomed to it, so it's a normal to us. I have a casual fan who was watching a Kings game with me. During the game, his reaction was basically: "Wtf, Cousins complains after almost every other offensive possession, how do the refs not tech him?"
That statement is false. LeBron was yapping after every call. many players yap after every call. Draymond Green yaps more than any other player. On the team level the Kings are not even in the top ten of technicals per game
 
#41
That jumped out to me too, and it's so obvious watching the games that there are refs who come into the game with no intention of being reasonable. We all know there's a double standard in how fouls and technicals are assessed. DeMarcus is one of the few players unwilling to just accept it and that's to his credit (he's nothing if not straightforward) and to his detriment. Almost every conversation I have with Kings fans eventually works it's way back to Cousins arguing with refs when he should be playing defense but it's hard for me to find much fault in DeMarcus' refusal to just put his head down and roll with the bad calls because I know I would react the same way he does in that situation until years of futility pounded the defiance out of me. But that's not changing your mind, it's cowing to authority and there's a part of me that wants to see him rewarded for continuing to take a stand against the injustice beyond all reason. 96% of us would have given up the fight by now and DeMarcus is more emboldened than ever. I admire him for that. His defiance hurts the team at times -- quite a lot of times actually -- but he's got a point. And it's a point nobody else is taking a stand for.
His stand loses credibility with me when he complains after every single play, and I'm sure the refs are just sick and tired of having to argue/discuss after each play with players. . You have to know when to complain and when not to complain. Out of curiosity , Did you feel Rasheed Wallace was justified back when complained incessantly ?
 
#42
His stand loses credibility with me when he complains after every single play, and I'm sure the refs are just sick and tired of having to argue/discuss after each play with players. . You have to know when to complain and when not to complain. Out of curiosity , Did you feel Rasheed Wallace was justified back when complained incessantly ?
I didn't watch Sheed play all that much. A couple times per year maybe. But he always struck me as a guy who would seed chaos just for the fun of it. He'd yell but he'd do it with a smile on his face which, if you do that enough, costs you credibility. DeMarcus is a loudmouth too but he generally has a reason for it. He could pick his spots better but the whole point is that there isn't artifice behind it, he's reacting in the moment. Picking his spots better is a form of artifice too -- some would call it veteran savvy but I appreciate that Cousins isn't calculating. He's not trying to milk calls he doesn't deserve (not going to name names, but you probably know which players I'm referring to...), he just plays straight up and demands to be treated fairly. That's what I like about him the most.

And who holds the referees accountable? The league comes out with a report after the game saying a call which likely cost us the game was incorrect but what happens because of it? Suspensions? Apologies? We watched a team of three referees steal the most important playoff series in franchise history from us and what was the result? I never saw any kind of public apology. They want accountability from the players and then offer nothing in return. The unspoken rules of 'when it's okay to argue' that the league enforces with technical fouls are just a power trip.
 
#43
His stand loses credibility with me when he complains after every single play, and I'm sure the refs are just sick and tired of having to argue/discuss after each play with players. . You have to know when to complain and when not to complain. Out of curiosity , Did you feel Rasheed Wallace was justified back when complained incessantly ?
and stands like this lose credibility with me when they offer such hyperbolic statements. demarcus simply does not complain after every single play. he doesn't even complain after every fifth play. but when he does complain, it is demonstrative and forceful, and it earns notice (and, from time to time, technical foul calls). russell westbrook is a demonstrative complainer, as well. he has only one fewer technical foul than demarcus this season. yet i see few arguments that he's a volatile malcontent, and mostly because he has a reputation as a fiery competitor. why is his reputation so much stronger than cousins? well, he's been on a winning team nearly his entire career, surrounded by capable talent. it always boils down to perception. even your rasheed wallace comparison betrays a lack of perspective. wallace regularly earned upwards of 20 techs per season. he had seasons of 27, 38, and 41 technicals in his prime. i'm not sure it's a fair comparison.

none of this is to say that demarcus doesn't need to improve his focus during games, particularly after missed calls/bad calls. he does. i'll say so along with everyone else. it's just to say that many kings fans don't level their perception to the rest of the league, where superstars complain regularly. lebron... big time complainer. chris paul and blake griffin... huge complainers. 'melo's a complainer. draymond might very well be even worse than demarcus, though being on the best team in the nba takes the edge off. jimmy butler has a penchant for flashing a bitter beer face around the court when things don't go his way. anthony davis, kawhi leonard, and james harden are much more laconic among superstars, and we don't see them complain much. but i'd say they're the exception rather than the rule. point is, this isn't some phenomenon that's unique to demarcus, and kings fans tend to overstate its impact on the win/loss column (as does the media coverage of cousins).

let's try a thought experiment: if demarcus had developed a sunnier demeanor on the court in the time since vivek purchased the kings, would the team have managed to finish at .500 or better in any of those seasons? or would defensive deficiencies, organizational upheaval, boneheaded personnel decisions, etc. have continued to hold this team back? once again, i'm not saying that demarcus shouldn't improve in the area of mental focus. he has already, and he's self-aware enough to recognize that he still has plenty of room to mature further. but it's melodramatic for kings fans to claim that demarcus complains after every play, and beside that point, it's also just not in demarcus to concede when he raises a valid criticism; nba referees call the game differently depending on who has the ball in their hands. boogie gets absolutely hammered by defenses night in and night out, and last night was no exception. to his credit, on the road against the defending champs, cousins kept his head in the game, and despite an unusually poor shooting night, he made the big plays when it mattered.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#44
Long, informative article, but you should note how PDA's involvement is completely left out. Even the IT trade is listed under the Vlade section when PDA proudly made that trade. So I figure the amount of Vivek shots are coming from the PDA influence. It still has interesting stuff in it.
PDA is one of the constant sources for half the negative articles on the Kings anymore. I mean who do people think this ubiquitous "rival executive with knowledge of Kings internal affairs" is anyway? You can guess at the unnamed players too.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#46
PDA is one of the constant sources for half the negative articles on the Kings anymore. I mean who do people think this ubiquitous "rival executive with knowledge of Kings internal affairs" is anyway? You can guess at the unnamed players too.
WE can guess but others will not know.
 
#47
Good article.

Paints Cuz as a complex, self aware guy who's making strides with his 'tude.

Portrays Vlade as a terribly ill conceived public relations hire that might actually work out with time as he gains more experience in his role.

Lambasts Vivek as the awful, delusional, disruptive little goblin he is. Lawrd I hate Vivek. We're screwed for as long as he lurks here.
This article just backs up what I've always thought about vivek. He's a basketball megalomaniac. Personally I think we are screwed until the other owners can finally toss vivek out on his ass.
I thought the article was more about how screwed up the kings are than how disruptive DMC is. Im glad they brought up his charity work because demarcus will never be the one to talk about it.
The other day my wife was telling me about a couple of kids who were selling candy outside of either the arena or the teams hotel on this trip. Demarcus saw that the people walking out were just ignoring them so he walked up to them and asked them what they were selling for. Boogie ended up buying all of their candy. Little things like that just show what a kind guy boogie is. If he could somehow get his court behavior under control the world would be his oyster.

edit: wife informed me that this happened in chicago.
 
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#48
Lord have mercy.

I had not seen that. That counts.

I don't see how we trade him now anyway though. He'll be much more tradeable as an expiring. If he's not gone by next trade deadline, I will be pissed. Also, for chemistry purposes, it's absolutely better to keep him for now.

So fortunately I think this is a stopped clock is right twice a day type of thing. It also could be jus tgrandstanding on an issue he has now power over anyway. That would also fit his personality. Jus the appearance of influence. It's a weird world he lives in where appearances matter (and yes, not just in his mind), so hi, appearing Tao be an influencer has legitimate value. This is one where it doesn't actually harm the team.
 
#49
I thought it was a good piece which clearly highlights the chaos that exists at the top of the tree.

We will struggle to put a winning product out on the floor, regardless of how great our business savvy is if Vivek continues to be so heavily set in his ways.

The structure that put him in power kept the kings here but it may handicap them for years to come.
 
#51
I don't get the people that throw all blame on PDA and pretend its all roses now. Every indication and report to the day is that Vivek is indeed the meddling, full of himself person that is always written about. Its pretty clear that PDA and Malone were polar opposites and one of them was gonna go and PDA being the slimy lawyer type got in Vivek's head that Malone needed to go, but the decision was on Vivek and everyone knows it. Do I hope Cousins and Joerger grow together? Yes. Do I hope Vlade with the help of others becomes a competent GM? Yes. Do I want to pretend the Vivek has learned his lessons and is sticking to the background and letting the experts make the basketball decisions? Heck no, between being caught in lies(Amick article from last year) and just reading situations, I know damn well Vivek is a problem.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#53
Didn't want to spend any time reading this, knowing more likely than not, it's a endless attack on topics we all have been discussing and known about for multiple seasons. I'll take the comments in here with more value than that article to be honest.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#54
Didn't want to spend any time reading this, knowing more likely than not, it's a endless attack on topics we all have been discussing and known about for multiple seasons. I'll take the comments in here with more value than that article to be honest.
Exactly....I just don't give a damn to read about any of this stuff anymore.....started to read and then stopped. I mean how many times can we be told stuff we know. The organization just needs to keep striving to stabilize and move forward
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#55
Let's be clear here btw, this was a long, and thorough article that made an attempt to be fair for the most part. There are long stretches of it that would make good recommended reading for Kings peeps. Unfortunately it was by a compromised outlet making fairly obvious use of some of the same sources they have used in previous articles on the Kings which had a more hit piece vibe. There's new details in there to be read. There's also a lot of warmed over stuff too.
 
#56
1) If Cuz takes the article to heart and cuts his "sabotage plays" in half it will be awesome. I think he has turned a corner recently but we'll see if it lasts for the long haul.

2) If minority owners can engineer a coup, any coup, to oust Vivek it will be awesome. Do the audit at the right time, or blackmail him - whatever it takes. A consensus based ownership headed by Mastrov would be far superior.
 
#59
I think there is a section of Kings fans who want this to stop

It's like a wound. We are trying to heal it. Every stupid article sets the franchise being a pariah for another several years. We are tired of the franchise being laughed at. Maybe another section of fans don't care. We don't like this franchise being spoken tongue in cheek in every stupid national article

It hurts the franchises operations as well. No kids will work out here draft day and no free agents
 
#60
and stands like this lose credibility with me when they offer such hyperbolic statements. demarcus simply does not complain after every single play. he doesn't even complain after every fifth play. but when he does complain, it is demonstrative and forceful, and it earns notice (and, from time to time, technical foul calls). russell westbrook is a demonstrative complainer, as well. he has only one fewer technical foul than demarcus this season. yet i see few arguments that he's a volatile malcontent, and mostly because he has a reputation as a fiery competitor. why is his reputation so much stronger than cousins? well, he's been on a winning team nearly his entire career, surrounded by capable talent. it always boils down to perception.
I would hardly call Cousins' complaints/pouts/arguments/scenes "demonstrative and forceful." Throwing his hands up in frustration, shaking his head, yelling expletives or sitting/laying on the ground when 9 other guys are running down the floor are not "demonstrative and forceful." In fact, I'd call them more of a distraction, a nuisance and inconvenient most of the time and something that typically drags the team down and costs them games rather than motivating anyone.

Westbrook earns his rep as a fiery competitor because you won't see him take 9 seconds to enter half court on a game-changing possession.