EC Playoffs Rnd1: (2) Magic vs (7) Bobcats

[est.1999]

Dude, simple basketball? I've been watching my life. My understanding of the game is great. Look, maybe for one or two games the mismatch can be a problem. But if you're a supposedly great team you need to make adjustments. Especially when the adjustment you make is having to deal with a star player NOT being there. If they can't adjust to a team that ended up being completely guard oriented cause a main big player isn't there then how to you expect them to beat orlando. Stop giving me this nonsense about speedier team cause bogut is out. You're a playoff team. Suck it up and find a way to punish that team for not having their best player. Jeez.

 

[JayBird]

est.1999, are you a football fan by any chance? If so, try this one out: The Eagles last year had 2 QB's: Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick. McNabb has a great arm and is a deadly thrower, but his mobility in the pocket had decreased due to old age and he can't run the ball effectively anymore. Vick, on the other hand, is young and speedy, and can run a wildcat style offense that doesn't rely on the pass as much as the run.

The Eagles play the niners, a team that is designed to stop the run, but has really a shoddy secondary and can't stop an effective thrower. If McNabb is hurt for this game and doesn't play, the niners have a good chance of stopping them, because they can stop the run. It's what their defense is designed to do.

Now if the Eagles were playing the Buffalo Bills (who were 2nd in the NFL in Pass defense, 30th in rush defense), the Bills would obviously want McNabb in the line-up. He's a great passer, but Buffalo's secondary is great too, so he has to beat them, and cannot hurt their crappy defensive line because he can't run the ball. If McNabb is hurt, and Vick is out there exposing all of their defensive flaws, it changes the structure of the game completely.

Nobody is arguing that Bogut isn't a key piece in Milwaukee's game plan. But a team's style of play is dependant on the 5 guys that are on the court at a given time. With Bogut not on the court, they play differently, and this gives Atlanta fits. That is all.

 

[est.1999]

Instead of comparing football to basketball(which I think was a terrible argument and example) why don't you find me another team that lost their best player who happens to be a legit 7 footer with a post up game(usually teams goals for recipe for success) and tell me how that became an advantage for them and they also won the series too. It doesn't happen. Atl just played lazy iso ball an they fell into a trap. It wasn't an advantage on the bucks side. Now look at them they finally figured it out an got their heads out of their a**es and they dominated the last two games.

 

[JayBird]

Instead of comparing football to basketball(which I think was a terrible argument and example) why don't you find me another team that lost their best player who happens to be a legit 7 footer with a post up game(usually teams goals for recipe for success) and tell me how that became an advantage for them and they also won the series too. It doesn't happen. Atl just played lazy iso ball an they fell into a trap. It wasn't an advantage on the bucks side. Now look at them they finally figured it out an got their heads out of their a**es and they dominated the last two games.

Hmm, ok. 1999 Eastern Conference Finals, Ewing tears his achilles in Game 2 and was out for the remainder of the playoffs, and guess what? The Knicks won the series in six games.

Was he their best player? Yes.

Was he a legit 7 footer? Yes.

With a post up game? Yes.

Did they win the series? Yes.

It's called "The Ewing effect". Google it.

 

[est.1999]

That was still a good proven team. You can't compare this bucks team to that knicks team.

 

[JayBird]

That was still a good proven team. You can't compare this bucks team to that knicks team.

Yea, they were 43-39 and had the 8th seed in the playoffs that year. The Bucks were 46-36 and had the 6th seed in the playoffs this year. Why can't I compare them again?

 

[est.1999]

Cause that was a lock out year. Where did you get that the knicks were 43-39? Is that a prorated record? They were 27-23, 6 games back of the 1 seed.

 

[JayBird]

Cause that was a lock out year. Where did you get that the knicks were 43-39? Is that a prorated record? They were 27-23, 6 games back of the 1 seed.

Oh woops, looked at the wrong season's records. My bad. So they were 4 games above .500 (.540) and the Bucks were 10 games above .500 (.561).

Didn't really answer my question about why I can't compare them though...

 

[est.1999]

Because the knicks started off the season slow as evident by their finals appearance.

 

[JayBird]

Because the knicks started off the slow as evident by their finals appearance.

I see. And this affects how they played in a playoff series without their best player? Neat.

 

[est.1999]

Ewing was at the end of his career by then. Bogut is in his prime.

 

[JayBird]

Ewing was at the end of his career by then. Bogut is in his prime.

Ok. So then you're argument becomes: It is impossible for a team to play in a different style without their star player that may create match-up problems for their opponent, unless said player is at the end of his career by then. Got it.

Whatever dude, agree to disagree. (and BTW, Ewing averaged 17 and 10 in 98-99. Bogut averaged 16 and 10 this year. But I'm sure you knew that).

 

[est.1999]

Another stat guy. Whatever dude, my argument the whole time was that atl should be able to dominate a team that is missing a key player. They essentially became a bunch of role players, a stud guard rookie who's a shooter and a ball dominant drive in slasher. I just said they shouldn't have had any problems winning this series.

 

[mac]

Another stat guy. Whatever dude, my argument the whole time was that atl should be able to dominate a team that is missing a key player. They essentially became a bunch of role players, a stud guard rookie who's a shooter and a ball dominant drive in slasher. I just said they shouldn't have had any problems winning this series.

Well here's where I'll agree with you. Coming into this series the Hawks should have won easily. But they didn't, and that has to do with matchups AS WELL AS them not playing hard/well. You also said that great teams (of which Atlanta is not) make adjustments in the playoffs. Well, they did make their adjustments, which is why they easily won game 6 and 7.

So...what's the problem again?

 

[est.1999]

I already stated that they got their act together. It's just that this debate has dragged out quite a bit. All I'm saying is people are making it out to be like bogut being out created a mismatch. But my problem with that is that the success the bucks had this year was not by playing that style. Now if we were talking about the '07 warriors who upset the mavs then that's a different story because that was how the warriors played all year. Milwaukee didn't. So my thing is that it shouldve been harder, not easier, for the bucks to matchbup with the hawks. But all in all, pretty good debate. And I don't wanna argue with you guys anymore . Let's hope we can debate about the kings' playoff matchup problems and the problems they fan inflict on other teams in the near future!

 

[kingsnation]

Atlanta moved on. So should we.

...and this is Orl/Cha series thread at that...