Douglas and Thomas together in the back court
- Thread starter ppine
- Start date
Darth Divac
Bench
No place for Reke, I guess. Let's trade him for DJ Mbenga! Get him off our hands so IT can shine. And while you're at it, let Cousins walk.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Uh no. The defensive lineup is Douglas and Reke.
Douglas/IT is a freakish short minute lineup, but still makes more tactical sense than Jimmer/IT. It depends on Douglas's ability to handle SGs defensively, which he can to some degree. But where we've seen his real impact is as a defender of PGs.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It can work against some lineups because of the quickness it provides. But if you have to guard a taller guard like Kobe, it probably won't work for a long period of time. If Douglas was a little more of a creative scorer, then I'd be more in favor of on this lineup because he could then put additional offensive pressure on the bigger guard he has to guard.
Telemachus
Starter
I wouldn't compare Douglas to Terrance Williams. Talent was never the problem with Williams, it was always his ability to get along with others (which seems to have followed him this year as well). Douglas doesn't seem to have that problem and also seems to know his limitations better as well.
kingsnation
All-Star
I like Toney alot. But I'm not sure how these 2 together are good for "defense at the end of games." IT isn't good for defense, ever. Toney will only be effective late in games defensively at the 2 if he can guard bigger 2's.
I think there's certainly a time and place for them to be on the floor together. The quickness they bring can cause a lot of problems. With a real coach, we will only need around 13 minutes sans Reke anyways. I don't see why IT and Douglas couldn't get 6 minutes a half of burn together
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
douglas has been a pleasant surprise this year. he'd be a good backup point guard when we need to tighten up defense.
i'd still go with
reke as the primary ball handler with jimmer in the backcourt to spread the floor.
i'd still go with
reke as the primary ball handler with jimmer in the backcourt to spread the floor.
K
KingMilz
Guest
You could say the exact thing for Thomas.....plus Douglas is a better fit and plays excellent D.....
Anything which involves getting rid of Salmons for these like 5+ games if it be Douglas/Thornton @SG (Evans @ SF) or even Patterson @ SF I'm happy with.
Agent23
Starter
It all depends. If he has to guard Lebron, Melo or Durant as a 3, we might as well chalk it up as an L.
DesertFox
Starter
Against most teams any of this team's combos is an L.
There really is no difference between Reke and Salmons playing the 3, and I'd rather see Reke at the 3 and small ball guards than Outlaw in any shape or form.
I honestly don't understand the infatuation with going small. In the NBA, size is an advantage. More so on the defensive side than the offensive side. It is easier to pass around, and shoot over, small players in a half court setting. It's easier to pick off smaller players. Two short years ago, we were able too have a size advantage. Man, was it nice.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
I don't think it matters which guard combo is out there since we don't have a coach to make any situation work best for the team. I think the root of the guard situation is the lack of an athletic, scoring SF. If such a SF can defend well, then one really good defending guard, Douglas or Evans, along with IT or Jimmer can do the trick. If your SF is a 15-20 scorer and a so-so defender then maybe IT and Evans makes most sense with Douglas and Jimmer off the bench. Salmon as the SF just has not worked in any combo so it throws out any logical argument as to guard pairings.
I remember the size advantage you speak of. Everything looked so promising. Having size can cover up so many miscues and mistakes. Gives teams a huge margin of error on both sides of the ball. I long for a big team again.
Spudfan,
Bigger players were all the rage in the NBA for a while. The Lakers as an example used their size to advantage for a long time. Quickness and getting there first are being recognized more as being valuable. At the college level there are lots of 3 guard teams and some 4 guard line-ups. That trend seems to have spilled over into the NBA somewhat. Coaches have to use the players they have to best advantage. Skilled big men are hard to find.
Along time ago we had guards, forwards and a center. Then we got more specialized with PG,SG,SF,PF and C. Then we saw players like Magic playing the PG at 6'9". Durant is kind of a point forward. So is James. Pippen started that trend. Giving a player like Evans a designated role is not that easy. To me, he is a SG-SF with PG tendencies.
A lot of people around here don't like Thomas because he is small. And maybe because he smiles a lot. Try to be objective about what you see.
Bigger players were all the rage in the NBA for a while. The Lakers as an example used their size to advantage for a long time. Quickness and getting there first are being recognized more as being valuable. At the college level there are lots of 3 guard teams and some 4 guard line-ups. That trend seems to have spilled over into the NBA somewhat. Coaches have to use the players they have to best advantage. Skilled big men are hard to find.
Along time ago we had guards, forwards and a center. Then we got more specialized with PG,SG,SF,PF and C. Then we saw players like Magic playing the PG at 6'9". Durant is kind of a point forward. So is James. Pippen started that trend. Giving a player like Evans a designated role is not that easy. To me, he is a SG-SF with PG tendencies.
A lot of people around here don't like Thomas because he is small. And maybe because he smiles a lot. Try to be objective about what you see.
Padrino
All-Star
that's a fallacy, at least as far as my criticisms are concerned. i don't like isaiah thomas as a starter because he is small, is a defensive liability on a team full of them, and requires the ball in his hands to be the most effective. demarcus cousins and tyreke evans are ball dominant talents higher up in the pecking order, and thus it has always made more sense for a player like isaiah thomas to come off the bench, though that's still problematic because this team has been constructed with zero thought to rotational balance, as marcus thornton is also a ball dominant personality deserving of minutes [off the bench]. and it gets awfully crowded on that bench when you trade for a player like thornton, then draft two players like jimmer fredette and isaiah thomas, then sign a player like aaron brooks, just to waive him because you've finally realized that there's far too many chuckers on your roster, and far too few defensive talents. enter toney douglas, and it's just another guard who deserves minutes, though moreso than jimmer, and likely even moreso than thomas if you ask me, because douglas is a superior defensive presence in the backcourt on a team in desperate need of defensive effort...
Kingsnbucs1987
Bench
I don't like him starting cause he's a small shooting guard starting at Point Guard, if that's the case I'd rather have a bigger version doing that for defense cause every raves that our offense is putting up point, but when you look at the defensive side that where it all breaks down. Douglas and Thomas really only works on small back courts, not big and physical ones which you're going to see night in and night out. Yeah IT will get his mostly and Douglas somewhat as well, but one of those guards is going to be giving the points right back on defense.
And yet, when I look at the top teams in the NBA, here's what I get:
Miami: Chalmers (6'2") and Ray Allen (6'5") Opposing PPG: 95
Spurs: Parker (6'2") and Danny Green (6'6") Opposing PPG: 96.2
Thunder: Westbrook (6'3") and Sefolosha (6'7") Opposing PPG: 96.6
Indiana: Hill (6'2") and Stephenson (6'5") Opposing PPG: 90.2
The only team in the top that really "looks" smaller (I guess) is the Clippers with Paul (6'0") and Crawford (6'5"), and their OPPG: 94.8
Our issue, is, and remains, defense. We need the size, and it looks like teams that value winning over scoring a lot of points do as well. Consistently going to three and (gulp) four guard lineups puts us at a disadvantage. Size still matters.
Denver gives up 100.8 PPG, fwiw.