Does Mark McGwire Deserve a Free Pass

[Purple Reign]

I know Mark McGwire was considered Paul Bunyan and the "Great American Dream", but I can can easily believe that he took steroids more now than ever, after the revelations of one Jose "rat" Canseco.

To me McGwire is on the same level as Bonds when it comes to circumstantial evidence

- In 1987, McGwire was a rail thin kid with talent just like Bonds.
- From 1987-1998, McGwire's body filled out to the 6'5 - 260lbs monster in the same gradual progression just like Bonds (6'2" - 230).
In 1999, Mark McGwire was legally and knowingly using Andro (Androstenedione). Bonds was legally and "unknowingly" taking THG

ANDRO
Androcan have powerful effects on muscle-building and athletic performance. andro is only one step away from testosterone. Therefore, by itself, it is not a muscle builder; but after the liver converts it to testosterone-watch out, BIG gains are on their way. Studies conducted on andro indicate that when taken orally, androstenedione produces significantly more testosterone than either a placebo or DHEA. In fact, East German athletes have used andro to improve their athletic performance in the Olympics since 1980. According to German records, their athletes experienced raises in testosterone levels as significant as 140% to 183% of normal with 50 mg of andro and incredibly 211% to 237% of normal with 100 mg of andro! These testosterone boosts have lead many athletes to improving their performance and lean muscle mass. This has lead many to believe that it may even work well as a libido booster.

Back to the circumstancial evidence....

McGwire was a teamate with two known steroids users in Jason Giambi and Jose Canseco. Bonds was indirectly linked to Victor Conte.

Why should we give McGwire a pass and Bonds is sentenced to steroid prison with a * beside every record he owns?

 

[SaCTowNFeveR]

option #2

 

[VF21]

And why exactly would I base an option on ANYTHING Jose Conseco has written in a book?

Sorry, but he's a prime candidate for biggest sleazebag ever to play in MLB, IMHO.

 

[BigWaxer]

I thought he used it before Jose came out with his book.

Look at McGwires body before and at the end of his career. Is that all from Andro? I don't think so.

What I find funny is how people (not here just a general statement) on the radio, callers, hosts whatever are ready to sell Bonds down the river while at the same time nobody questions McGwire and how he got his size. Oh ya hard work, although Barry is known to have one of the hardest workouts/offseason programs of most players.

I believe they both used them, I don't care if they did but the records are tarnished IMO. Problem is everytime someone hits a home run I am gonna wonder if its legit or if he is injecting himself in the bathroom with Jose.

Balco = Bay Area

Imagine Jose and Mark 2 big guys in one small stall injecting each other with roids? Okay that seems a tad unbelievable Jose...

 

[Heuge]

Big Mac did hit 49 homeruns his rookie year, that is before the alleged steriod use. He then dropped off for two years, before he got contact lenses, he then went homer happy.
He did nothing against the rules to get his homers.

 

[Bricklayer]

He hit those 49 homers, and that's his best defense, but he did SOMETHING dramatic to his body over the next 5 years. I remember in the early 90's when he kept on getting hurt his HRs per/AB were suddenly off the chart, and you kept on wondering what would happen if he could stay healthy.



The before and after shots of McGwire, Sosa, Bonds are eye-popping to say the least. Wouldn't even know they were the same people.

Canseco may be a scumbag, but people should thank him. He's blown the lid right off of this whole thing and the light of day is now shining into baseball's dirty little secrets. Be good for the fans in the long run by restoring a little integrity to the game. All of these ridiculous pumped up records over the last decade have really damaged the one appeal the game as always had -- its sense of history.

 

[iheartBrad]

all this talk of steriods in MLB is just sickening

i really don't know what to believe...and i am trying my hardest to stay away from all the reports on the subject

::sigh::

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

seen some pics. of mark, man, his arms ,head,HUGE and lumpy,looked like he fell in vat of juice,but how to prove it?

 

[Purple Reign]

You can add this weekend's revelation that McGwire was involved in a federal steroids investigation that led to the conviction of 70 people.

 

[VF21]

And you can add another nail into the coffin of MLB. This witch-hunting HAS to stop. What good is going to come from MORE accusations, MORE revelations, etc. if the league is in no real hurry to clean it up? The Senate hearings aren't going to do anything, and the fact we taxpayers are paying for Senate investigations into this is ridiculous. Big Brother's minions need to quit worrying about juiced athletes and the image of America's national pastime and start paying more attention to what really matters. (And I won't go into specifics about what I think matters because this isn't a political forum.)

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Well, last time I went to the capitol, the senate building was pretty empty... they usually have about 6 senators in the room at a time, 3 from either side. It must get boring for them, they have to find some way to pass the time

 

[VF21]

Well, last time I went to the capitol, the senate building was pretty empty... they usually have about 6 senators in the room at a time, 3 from either side. It must get boring for them, they have to find some way to pass the time

Of course it was empty. There are all those junkets to warm third-world countries they have to go on. Not to mention the newest crop of interns.

 

[El Duque]

They can actually watch any proceeding or hearing on a T.V. in their office. How lazy can you possibly be!?

Anyways, McGwire should be under scrutiny like the rest of them, but that doesn't mean Congress needs to get involved. What does need to happen, IMO, is that Roger Maris needs to go into the Hall of Fame. I know his career numbers don't warrant it, but how great does his record look now, when the only people who have passed it since have all, knowingly or unknowingly, taken andro/steroids/HGH/whatever the hell else there is out there.

 

[VF21]

They can actually watch any proceeding or hearing on a T.V. in their office. How lazy can you possibly be!?

Anyways, McGwire should be under scrutiny like the rest of them, but that doesn't mean Congress needs to get involved. What does need to happen, IMO, is that Roger Maris needs to go into the Hall of Fame. I know his career numbers don't warrant it, but how great does his record look now, when the only people who have passed it since have all, knowingly or unknowingly, taken andro/steroids/HGH/whatever the hell else there is out there.

I can see it in Cooperstown...

ROGER MARIS*

*Last person to set a home-run record without the use of performance enhancing chemicals.

Maybe they can open up a new section or sections, separated by type of chemical used, how it was consumed, etc. Then we might actually have an audioanimatronic display of Jose Conseco giving McGwire a shot in the left buttocks.



/dripping sarcasm

 

[slugking50]

MLB deserves getting attacked. Do you know that HGH is not part of the MLB Drug Testing Program? Rediculous.

 

[JSin]

There is not one person in the record books who played in a vaccum. They all had advantages and disadvantages that players from other eras didn't have. Asterisk talk is laughable.

 

[VF21]

There is not one person in the record books who played in a vaccum. They all had advantages and disadvantages that players from other eras didn't have. Asterisk talk is laughable.

There's a difference between advantages/disadvantages and blatant and pervasive use of performance enhancing chemicals.

Roger Maris broke Babe Ruth's record legitimately. Hank Aaron worked VERY HARD to establish the all-time home run record and he did it legitimately. Neither should have their record beaten by someone who chose to do so knowing full well he had used steroids or whatever to increase his performance above his natural limits.

I cannot understand how you can defend the use of steroids by your heroes. They CHEATED. Pure and simple. And if they hadn't thought it was cheating they wouldn't have hidden it.

I was disgusted with MLB before because it was no longer the game I used to love listening to on the radio with my dad. Now, it's a caricature of itself. It's laughable and if I had a son I would urge him to stay away from the sport, until and unless they clean up their act.

 

[Heuge]

There's a difference between advantages/disadvantages and blatant and pervasive use of performance enhancing chemicals.

Roger Maris broke Babe Ruth's record legitimately. Hank Aaron worked VERY HARD to establish the all-time home run record and he did it legitimately. Neither should have their record beaten by someone who chose to do so knowing full well he had used steroids or whatever to increase his performance above his natural limits.

I cannot understand how you can defend the use of steroids by your heroes. They CHEATED. Pure and simple. And if they hadn't thought it was cheating they wouldn't have hidden it.

I was disgusted with MLB before because it was no longer the game I used to love listening to on the radio with my dad. Now, it's a caricature of itself. It's laughable and if I had a son I would urge him to stay away from the sport, until and unless they clean up their act.

First of all, the is no proof Big Mac did anything wrong.

Second, performance enhancing drugs were not illegal as defined by baseball; therefore the ones who did performance enhancing drugs did not cheat.

Third, maybe these guys did do hard work to get where they are. Just because they used performance enhancing drugs (legal at the time- Andro) does not mean they skipped the whole work part. For that matter, we have no idea what Maris, Aaron, and Ruth did or did not do to become stronger.

To label someone with an astrix, and say their totals is not legitimate because it was not "pure (especially since their is no conviction)" is arbitrary and insulting.

 

[SacFanInOR]

Personally, I'm not sure who took steroids and who didn't...I don't really know what to believe about all this. Of course I think that performance enhancing drugs are bad and shouldn't be used by professional athletes or anyone else, but like someone else mentioned, it was not against the rules of baseball to uses these drugs...yes, they were still illegal in the United States, but so are a lot of other things that athletes do and aren't punished for. If it wasn't against the rules of baseball, I don't see why they should be punished by having an asterik next to their name, especially since no one can actually prove who was using and who wasn't.
I think that the best way to deal with the steroids issue is to just move on from here...implement the testing policy and inforce it.

 

[Elise10]

I thought it was long admitted that Mark McGwire did steroids.

By baseball standards it wasn't illegal but unless you have a doctor who prescribed a steroid for a specific purpose it's illegal to take them. Never mind the moral ramifications in which is what the records are really about.

I don't believe that Mark deserves a free pass. As much as you can hate the messenger in Jose Canseco(as well as Ken Caminiti for that matter, may he rest in peace) it really is forcing baseball especially Bud Selig and Donald Fehr to stop turning a blind eye and realize that "hey, we have a problem and have for quite sometime"

As for Barry Bonds....well for those who will disargee with what I'm about to say have their right to and I'll still respect them.

I truly honestly believe that he willing took steroids and continues to think that the public will look past it for as long he can hit a homerun. I don't understand the logic of how your "childhood friend" can tell the next stranger exactly what he was taking and where to shoot it but in the next breathe continue to call what you're taking as "flaxseed oil".I'm not saying that the same results can happen from one to the next because you're talking about two different people. There are other reasons but that really seems to bother me.

 

[VF21]

First of all, the is no proof Big Mac did anything wrong.

Second, performance enhancing drugs were not illegal as defined by baseball; therefore the ones who did performance enhancing drugs did not cheat.

Third, maybe these guys did do hard work to get where they are. Just because they used performance enhancing drugs (legal at the time- Andro) does not mean they skipped the whole work part. For that matter, we have no idea what Maris, Aaron, and Ruth did or did not do to become stronger.

To label someone with an astrix, and say their totals is not legitimate because it was not "pure (especially since their is no conviction)" is arbitrary and insulting.

It's insulting to the guys who took steroids to have it noted that they used steroids or whatever performance-enhancing chemicals they could to set records they might well have not come anywhere close to setting without those chemicals?

What about the insult to all the young men who DIDN'T take drugs? Who didn't sneak around and hide the use of those chemicals?

I agree with Elise10 - and I find it reprehensible that someone could try and defend the actions of the few who sullied not only their own names but dragged the MLB through the mud.

I never said those who took the chemicals didn't work hard. They sure worked hard to hide the truth.

Maris, Aaron and Ruth didn't take performance enhancing drugs because they weren't available, for one thing. In addition, their careers didn't suddenly spike abnormally.

If you're going to hold an athlete to certain standards, those standards should be concrete and absolute. You cannot allow tainted performances to receive the same accolades as performances earned honestly.

That's just my three cents...

 

[Purple Reign]

I know Mark McGwire was considered Paul Bunyan and the "Great American Dream", but I can can easily believe that he took steroids more now than ever, after the revelations of one Jose "rat" Canseco.

To me McGwire is on the same level as Bonds when it comes to circumstantial evidence

- In 1987, McGwire was a rail thin kid with talent just like Bonds.
- From 1987-1998, McGwire's body filled out to the 6'5 - 260lbs monster in the same gradual progression just like Bonds (6'2" - 230).
In 1999, Mark McGwire was legally and knowingly using Andro (Androstenedione). Bonds was legally and "unknowingly" taking THG

ANDRO
Androcan have powerful effects on muscle-building and athletic performance. andro is only one step away from testosterone. Therefore, by itself, it is not a muscle builder; but after the liver converts it to testosterone-watch out, BIG gains are on their way. Studies conducted on andro indicate that when taken orally, androstenedione produces significantly more testosterone than either a placebo or DHEA. In fact, East German athletes have used andro to improve their athletic performance in the Olympics since 1980. According to German records, their athletes experienced raises in testosterone levels as significant as 140% to 183% of normal with 50 mg of andro and incredibly 211% to 237% of normal with 100 mg of andro! These testosterone boosts have lead many athletes to improving their performance and lean muscle mass. This has lead many to believe that it may even work well as a libido booster.

Back to the circumstancial evidence....

McGwire was a teamate with two known steroids users in Jason Giambi and Jose Canseco. Bonds was indirectly linked to Victor Conte.

Why should we give McGwire a pass and Bonds is sentenced to steroid prison with a * beside every record he owns?

I thought that Mark McGwire was a complete embarrassment yesterday. I have to admit that I am neither a McGwire fan or a McGwire hater. But this guy did nothing but evade the questions and did so when he was asked specific, comprehensive questions about what can he do to better this situation.

He was asked "Mr. McGwire how do you know that steroids can hae a negative effect on a person"?

McGwire: "I am here not to talk about the past, just the positives".

Give me a break.

 

[BigWaxer]

I agree PReign. Every answer he said IMO said.. I AM GUILTY. If he never took roids then he could of said NO I DIDN'T do it. Period. instead he choose to play games.

IMO, anyone that thinks his record is legit and not tanted is either a very trusting person or someone in denial. BigMac looked very bad yesterday and IMO looked like a guilty person.