Do you want Bibby back?
- Thread starter TheJoker
- Start date
I think its probably time for him to go, and Mike is NOT, nor has he ever been, the sort of guy that you just have to have to have to hold onto forever. He's a good player. Not a great one. Not a franchise one. Along with Peja was just one of our finishers during our peak years, but likely no better than the 4th most important starter, maybe even 5th.
That said, as with everything else this offseason, it all depends on what else we do. Its hard/impossible to answer an isolated question like this, because everything, and I do mean everything, is open to question and possible change this offseason. We could go win now. We could rebuild. We could move Ron, we might not. Mike could opt out, or not. We could make a play for KG, which would cost us Kevin I am sure, or not. We could get lucky in the lottery and land a young stud. Or not. There will be trades, FAs, a draft pick...I don't see any real reason to bring Mike back just because he's Mike, and he has value in trade that can speed our rebuild (value that could erode further with another bad year). But until you know the direction of the team, nothing is set in stone.
That said, as with everything else this offseason, it all depends on what else we do. Its hard/impossible to answer an isolated question like this, because everything, and I do mean everything, is open to question and possible change this offseason. We could go win now. We could rebuild. We could move Ron, we might not. Mike could opt out, or not. We could make a play for KG, which would cost us Kevin I am sure, or not. We could get lucky in the lottery and land a young stud. Or not. There will be trades, FAs, a draft pick...I don't see any real reason to bring Mike back just because he's Mike, and he has value in trade that can speed our rebuild (value that could erode further with another bad year). But until you know the direction of the team, nothing is set in stone.
Do I want Mike back. well, honestly, I don't know. Last year I was ready to pull the trigger on him (same as some times this year), he didn't pass to Peja, he had problems with Adelman and wouldn't listen, he called himself a leader and didn't back it up on the court. But right now, I don't know what to think.
He's a good player and if he's surrounded by other great players, we can still use him.
To me, Mike isn't my first concern. There are other players that are on my mind...Artest. S.A.R. Kenny
This is off topic but personally, I would love to have Jordan Farmar. I don't want to lose Ronnie (plus, we can probably switch his role because he has a shooters mentality and hey, we're the kings).
He's a good player and if he's surrounded by other great players, we can still use him.
To me, Mike isn't my first concern. There are other players that are on my mind...Artest. S.A.R. Kenny
This is off topic but personally, I would love to have Jordan Farmar. I don't want to lose Ronnie (plus, we can probably switch his role because he has a shooters mentality and hey, we're the kings).
No. I want somebody at the point quicker than Martin is at the 2. Also, Martin is the only player that is core player in my view, and he's 23 (or 24 per Brick). Bibby is 28, the last time I checked. So, why have a point guard that's going to start going downhill just when Martin is entering into his prime? That makes no sense to me. Hopefully, we can trade him for young player(s), contract-enders, and a high pick for this year.
Bibby has been my favorite player on the kings since he signed. My son and I wear his jersey to every game, my wife loves him and we would be very sad if he left. However, his inconsistent shooting and horrible defense signal to me that it's time to start over especially if we can get a guy like conley, or collison in the draft and start grooming them to take over this team, or if we could possibly pick up a free agent up that is better than him (highly unlikely). Do you guys really see us being able to trade him with the huge contract he has?
Out with the old, in with the new, dump Bibby like a hot potatoe. Moving him being that he is making the most on the team for picks and youngins with some NBA experience is a great sign of a rebuild. Bibby definately needs to go, he brings nothing if his shot isn't falling and as a PG he definately needs to make the players around him better with his good passes and decisions. He is like a quarterback in the NFL always trying to rely on Q-Back Sneaks and scoring the points rather then throwing the good pass or facking out the opponents and then handing it off, not looking for his own glory by taking the shot or scoring the points.
Since when does Bibby not have a shot? He's still the best shooter, hands down, on this team. And probably would be if he were still here next year. Top five shooting point guard in the League, regardless of the low numbers this season.
You can't take one year's poor shooting performance and let it convince you that a player can't do what he's done his entire career anymore. Bibby can still shoot.
You can't take one year's poor shooting performance and let it convince you that a player can't do what he's done his entire career anymore. Bibby can still shoot.
Okay, but he's one of the bottom five playmaking PGs.
We've got two other players that like to shoot the ball from outside in Artest and Martin.
This team doesn't need another shooter. It's one of our biggest problems this year - too much "me-first", 3 point shooting shenanegins. We need someone who is willing to set other people up - and I'm just not convinced Bibby is that person.
We've got two other players that like to shoot the ball from outside in Artest and Martin.
This team doesn't need another shooter. It's one of our biggest problems this year - too much "me-first", 3 point shooting shenanegins. We need someone who is willing to set other people up - and I'm just not convinced Bibby is that person.
First off, I doubt we'll be seeing much more of Ron Artest in Sacramento, and secondly, Martin shouldn't be taking more than about 18 shots a game.
Bibby never has been the set-up man, prototypical point guard. Never been one to rack up a ton of assists, not the type of guard that you'd run your entire offense through either.
But the reason we traded for him - and subsequently signed him to a big money deal - is because he plays great two-man basketball with a skilled big man, ala Webber, Vlade, and even Brad Miller when he's not sucking like he has the past two seasons. I know we're not the Princeton offense Kings anymore, but Bibby still has his value on the right kind of team. Which is why we should have sent him to LA at the trade deadline, as much as that would have hurt.
And honestly speaking, there aren't that many good-playmaking point guards who don't take a lot of shots anymore. Which is why the whole basketball world is going gaga over Steve Nash the past three years, when he's been playing that way his entire career, just not on such an athletic team. Maybe there will be a resurgence of the pass-first point guard in coming years, but that's not the reality of the position in the NBA anymore.
Bibby's main weakness is his lack of athleticism. It hurts him when a quick, strong defender is assigned to him, and it hurts him on the defensive end. He is a one-dimensional player anymore, and I don't think we should pay a one-dimensional player $27 million over two years unless he's leading us to 50 wins a year.
So while I think Mike's time is up as a King (or at least should be), I think we waited too long to move him. I think we got our best offers at the deadline from Cleveland and LA, and we froze in the headlights. They called our bluff, and now Mike's value has plummeted. So while I don't want to see him traded away for Kracker Jack prizes the way we moved Webber, I don't know that we have any other option, except to bit the bullet and pay up. Which sucks.
Bibby never has been the set-up man, prototypical point guard. Never been one to rack up a ton of assists, not the type of guard that you'd run your entire offense through either.
But the reason we traded for him - and subsequently signed him to a big money deal - is because he plays great two-man basketball with a skilled big man, ala Webber, Vlade, and even Brad Miller when he's not sucking like he has the past two seasons. I know we're not the Princeton offense Kings anymore, but Bibby still has his value on the right kind of team. Which is why we should have sent him to LA at the trade deadline, as much as that would have hurt.
And honestly speaking, there aren't that many good-playmaking point guards who don't take a lot of shots anymore. Which is why the whole basketball world is going gaga over Steve Nash the past three years, when he's been playing that way his entire career, just not on such an athletic team. Maybe there will be a resurgence of the pass-first point guard in coming years, but that's not the reality of the position in the NBA anymore.
Bibby's main weakness is his lack of athleticism. It hurts him when a quick, strong defender is assigned to him, and it hurts him on the defensive end. He is a one-dimensional player anymore, and I don't think we should pay a one-dimensional player $27 million over two years unless he's leading us to 50 wins a year.
So while I think Mike's time is up as a King (or at least should be), I think we waited too long to move him. I think we got our best offers at the deadline from Cleveland and LA, and we froze in the headlights. They called our bluff, and now Mike's value has plummeted. So while I don't want to see him traded away for Kracker Jack prizes the way we moved Webber, I don't know that we have any other option, except to bit the bullet and pay up. Which sucks.
Bibby should go. (although he won't).
His defensive ineptness is one reason the king's defense is as bad as it is. Our defense is consistently penetrated by other PGs who then "create" scoring opportunities for their other teammates. Even with a defensive big inside, that would only compensate for mike's defense. We should also replace him so that one of our problems will be fixed at the "source".
His defensive ineptness is one reason the king's defense is as bad as it is. Our defense is consistently penetrated by other PGs who then "create" scoring opportunities for their other teammates. Even with a defensive big inside, that would only compensate for mike's defense. We should also replace him so that one of our problems will be fixed at the "source".
I see that too, but KMart with his height and athletism shouldn't have much trouble with shooting over them, he usually will not be able to outmuscle them like Ron can to to just about anyone, but maybe Shaq...but Kmart blows by many a PG even.
From just watching the 1st quarter of the Jazz game tonight and seeing him through his stay in Sac....I would be all for Ronnie being our starting PG next year. The guy hasn't had a lot of minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a season like KMart has had this year when he got the starting spot and the confidence.
Also Justin Williams is just amazing, I think we found our PF for the future. What he does in a few minutes with his blocks, hustle, rebounding is what it takes other players to do in almost a game (well at least SAR & Miller).
It doesn't mean we should stop making the deals to bring in some more back court help because we still need it and need to lose K9 in the worst way more then anything.
Our starting lineup and I think the more we see this the more Muss will not be able to get away with not starting this group:
Price
KMart
Artest
Williams
SAR
From just watching the 1st quarter of the Jazz game tonight and seeing him through his stay in Sac....I would be all for Ronnie being our starting PG next year. The guy hasn't had a lot of minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a season like KMart has had this year when he got the starting spot and the confidence.
Also Justin Williams is just amazing, I think we found our PF for the future. What he does in a few minutes with his blocks, hustle, rebounding is what it takes other players to do in almost a game (well at least SAR & Miller).
It doesn't mean we should stop making the deals to bring in some more back court help because we still need it and need to lose K9 in the worst way more then anything.
Our starting lineup and I think the more we see this the more Muss will not be able to get away with not starting this group:
Price
KMart
Artest
Williams
SAR
I see that too, but KMart with his height and athletism shouldn't have much trouble with shooting over them, he usually will not be able to outmuscle them like Ron can to to just about anyone, but maybe Shaq...but Kmart blows by many a PG even.
From just watching the 1st quarter of the Jazz game tonight and seeing him through his stay in Sac....I would be all for Ronnie being our starting PG next year. The guy hasn't had a lot of minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a season like KMart has had this year when he got the starting spot and the confidence.
Also Justin Williams is just amazing, I think we found our PF for the future. What he does in a few minutes with his blocks, hustle, rebounding is what it takes other players to do in almost a game (well at least SAR & Miller).
It doesn't mean we should stop making the deals to bring in some more back court help because we still need it and need to lose K9 in the worst way more then anything.
Our starting lineup and I think the more we see this the more Muss will not be able to get away with not starting this group:
Price
KMart
Artest
Williams
SAR
From just watching the 1st quarter of the Jazz game tonight and seeing him through his stay in Sac....I would be all for Ronnie being our starting PG next year. The guy hasn't had a lot of minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a season like KMart has had this year when he got the starting spot and the confidence.
Also Justin Williams is just amazing, I think we found our PF for the future. What he does in a few minutes with his blocks, hustle, rebounding is what it takes other players to do in almost a game (well at least SAR & Miller).
It doesn't mean we should stop making the deals to bring in some more back court help because we still need it and need to lose K9 in the worst way more then anything.
Our starting lineup and I think the more we see this the more Muss will not be able to get away with not starting this group:
Price
KMart
Artest
Williams
SAR
Price
Martin
Williams
Brewer (with the #1 pick)
Athletic young 4 who we get by trading Bibby, Artest, SAR, Salmons or Miller.
Garcia - backup swinging between the 2 & 3.
Rest of the Bench - Only qualification: you must be young, athletic, and hungry to improve.
We would probably have to be lucky to get .500 next year with that lineup because it is so young, but it would be a blast to watch because they would be so athletic and they all can play defense (despite what you hear about Martin). I want athleticism at EVERY position. Then you have a synergistic effect on defense where the whole definitely is greater than the sum of the parts because then every guy on your team can help out (because of their quickness) every other guy on the team. It becomes a swarm of hornets.
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i agree with most of your points with the exception of the last one. i think most GMs wanted to stay away from him bc he has a opt out clause. would a GM want to bring him (to a losing team) while giving up some young players/draft pick for a player that might opt out at the end of the season? it's highly risky on their end to pull the trigger on such a deal. we'll have a better grasp of what bibby's intentions are come draft time.
Ron on the ohter hand...sheesh, wish they shipped him out last summer.
Ron on the ohter hand...sheesh, wish they shipped him out last summer.
After reading all the posts on Bibby (and diversions off into Artest, etc.) I come down to this. Bibby turns 29 in a month and he plays older now it seems or more to the point is just slow and getting prematurely slower. He has good value at present but will have a helluva lot less if he plays on like he did this year. So I say send him packing or package him with others (notably Thomas, Miller) if possible for decent pieces, draft picks. I can live with Bibby as the Kings point guard next season at $13.5 million, but I'd have to swallow hard and then probably faint if he turned in another mediocre season only to end up owing him $14.5 mil for that last year. Meanwhile, Artest is 26 years of age and I think showing signs of repentance and maybe even maturity into his "old age." No one can really trash his on the court defensive lock-down killer instincts, all out effort on virtually every possession, and overall solid skills across the board. I look at what Artest did last year in taking his new team on his back after arriving late in the season, confidently guaranteeing the playoffs, delivering, and inspiring that miracle run. That kind of leadership is stunning compared to how much Bibby sorely lacks in that critical intangible category. Cut to this season and Artest has really been outstanding since the first of the year after having a tendency earlier to settle for the jacked up three and not making enough of them. Now he's reined that in (showing he can smartly adjust) making more scores in the overall offensive flow, posting up, driving, slashing, to use his best talents. It seems he's been a better shooter and scorer than Bibby for most of this entire season. As bad as things were looking for Artest with the somewhat overblown "Socks" episode and 911 call from his estranged wife in which the dispatcher virtually talked her into fingering him, at least he's not charged with any felonies for all the media saturation hoopla. Yes, it's serious stuff but needs some perspective and in the end hopefully it all calms down and does not escalate anymore to the point the dude is facing another NBA suspension. Bibby goes, Artest stays put - and build a tough minded defensive oriented team around his solid court leadership. Let that other "court" in Placer County do what it must.
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