Derrick Williams or lack thereof

[Kingster]

Or management decided being able to get rid of Salmons, Hayes and Patterson was worth getting rid of Vasquez, especially when you're getting Rudy Gay and some spare pieces in return.

All the comments I heard from Malone indicated he knew who the best pg was - IT. Also, his actions demonstrated it. Like I said before, you don't play your second best pg in the 4th quarter.

 

[Chubbs]

All the comments I heard from Malone indicated he knew who the best pg was - IT. Also, his actions demonstrated it. Like I said before, you don't play your second best pg in the 4th quarter.

Do you have those quotes?

 

[Kingster]

Or management decided being able to get rid of Salmons, Hayes and Patterson was worth getting rid of Vasquez, especially when you're getting Rudy Gay and some spare pieces in return.

It doesn't explain why IT was playing in the 4th and Vasquez wasn't. It was pretty obvious they liked IT more than Vasquez. At least Malone did. He was the guy distributing the minutes.

 

[Kingster]

Do you have those quotes?

No, but I do listen pretty closely to the interviews. I don't know why this topic is even controversial. Just look to the individual games and how the minutes were distributed between Vasquez and IT. They speak for themselves.

 

[Chubbs]

No, but I do listen pretty closely to the interviews. I don't know why this topic is even controversial. Just look to the individual games and how the minutes were distributed between Vasquez and IT. They speak for themselves.

I suspected you wouldn't have any quotes.

 

[Glenn]

We have a thread devoted to IT. This one is about Williams.

 

[VF21]

We have a thread devoted to IT. This one is about Williams.

Ah, but sooner or later everything turns into a discussion of IT.

 

[FaStRmAn]

Derrick has already shown flashes of his potential when he was the starting SF. Also about the "All good teams develop young talent", the Kings staff doesn't really do this sometimes.

Well, the past coaching staffs certainly did not develop talent. However it is too soon to tell if this coaching staff is not able to groom young talent into good NBA players. I am hopeful that they are working with McLemore DAILY to help him transition to the NBA game because if not it is a draft pick wasted. The only way the Kings are going to become a good playoff caliber team is thru drafting and grooming young talent. Sacramento is not a desirable destination for most NBA players. At least it isnt right now. However if they improve, they will be a place players want to sign. Just like when they were perennial playoff contenders.

 

[bloom]

That's the whole issue Williams is not a spark plug type player like Isaiah Thomas or MT who can just come in and start gunning or like IT going to the rim, he's more of a passive aggressive type (which works well with Cousins) as in he will relax out there until he gets a open lane or is forced to go one on one in the post. That's why him being a back up in Minny never worked.

I should have been more clear. I’m not expecting to see Derrick turn into a Isaiah type player (someone who comes in and goes 200 mph). I was trying to say that he can come in and keep the steady pace of the starting unit. And even though coming off the bench didn’t work for him in Minny, he shouldn’t have a problem here (http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/12/1...acing-new-reserve-role-with-sacramento-kings/). Plus, I never understood (and liked) why players can basically dictate that they don't come off of the bench or won't produce or try as hard.

I think he should be fine in the second unit, and with his chemistry with Ben, I think both should be in the same unit together. They both look out for each other, they feed off of each other, they work great together and they provide much needed energy.

 

[GoodOldDouwe]

This is probably an example of mosterd na de maaltijd as we Dutchies like to say.

The literal translation is ‘mustard after the meal’. This idiom is used to express the idea that something has happened too late, much like someone bringing the mustard after you’ve long finished your meal.

But shouldn't we have kept Luc? With Rudy Gay coming less than two weeks later I think Luc would have helped us more with Gay on the roster than Williams does now. I liked Williams as a starter, but he hasn't been good at all coming of the bench.

 

[New Era]

This is probably an example of mosterd na de maaltijd as we Dutchies like to say.

The literal translation is ‘mustard after the meal’. This idiom is used to express the idea that something has happened too late, much like someone bringing the mustard after you’ve long finished your meal.

But shouldn't we have kept Luc? With Rudy Gay coming less than two weeks later I think Luc would have helped us more with Gay on the roster than Williams does now. I liked Williams as a starter, but he hasn't been good at all coming of the bench.

This has been talked about a lot on this forum. The general consensus is yes, we should have kept Luc had we known about the Gay trade but the Williams trade came before the Gay trade. I still think the Williams for Luc trade was a good one on its own merit but now Williams is struggling to find a role now that Gay is taking the majority of the minutes at the SF spot.

I'm still glad we have him though (although his lack of effort last night on that loose ball really pissed me off) as he's a talented piece that could come in handy later on.

 

[hrdboild]

But shouldn't we have kept Luc? With Rudy Gay coming less than two weeks later I think Luc would have helped us more with Gay on the roster than Williams does now. I liked Williams as a starter, but he hasn't been good at all coming of the bench.

Again I ask myself, what is it really that you expect Williams to do differently coming off the bench? Stand at the three point line and bark for the ball? He's taking his shots when he gets them and hitting them at a pretty good rate too. He had a three pointer at the end of the first quarter which didn't count because it inexplicably took IT and Cousins 9 seconds to bring the ball up the court and swing it to the wing. Had it counted he would have been 3 for 5 with 8 points in 18 minutes. The game before he was 4 for 7 with 11 points. He's got 5 blocks in the last three games which is best on the team. The only difference between Williams before the Gay trade and Williams after the Gay trade is that his opportunities to impress have been cut way down, both because of limited minutes and because IT and Gay's expanded roles have them dominating the ball. Then Jimmer and MT come in with Williams off the bench and they take all the shots while they're on the floor. Granted his rebounding rate has gone way down, but it's hard to expect anyone to play consistently hard when the reward for a big rebound or solid defensive stand is one of your guards jacking up a three pointer before you get halfway up the court and now you're back on defense again.

I like Luc a lot, but let's not overstate who he is. He's a nice complimentary player. He's contributing solid defense and little else for a .500 team for about 15-20 minutes a game. That was a good trade for us in any context. A lot of guys on our team are having trouble adjusting to the current IT/Gay/Cousins climate. We don't need to trade McLemore for a role-player who might help us win 3 or 4 more games this season and we don't need to lament trading a journeyman defensive specialist for a 22 year old forward with a ton of potential to get better. What we do need to do is find a better balance of offense and defense with the guys we have right now and continue to work towards improving individually and as a team every day.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This has been talked about a lot on this forum. The general consensus is yes, we should have kept Luc had we known about the Gay trade but the Williams trade came before the Gay trade. I still think the Williams for Luc trade was a good one on its own merit but now Williams is struggling to find a role now that Gay is taking the majority of the minutes at the SF spot.

I'm still glad we have him though (although his lack of effort last night on that loose ball really pissed me off) as he's a talented piece that could come in handy later on.

I should have been more clear. I’m not expecting to see Derrick turn into a Isaiah type player (someone who comes in and goes 200 mph). I was trying to say that he can come in and keep the steady pace of the starting unit. And even though coming off the bench didn’t work for him in Minny, he shouldn’t have a problem here (http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/12/1...acing-new-reserve-role-with-sacramento-kings/). Plus, I never understood (and liked) why players can basically dictate that they don't come off of the bench or won't produce or try as hard.

I think he should be fine in the second unit, and with his chemistry with Ben, I think both should be in the same unit together. They both look out for each other, they feed off of each other, they work great together and they provide much needed energy.

The situation seems to be one of those deals where "on paper" there's no reason it shouldn't work....or there's no 'excuse' to not play the same whether you start or come off the bench. However in real life, it doesn't always work out that way. We're dealing with very young men here...and how they feel or think, very much affects how they physically work and perform. Just a fact that has proven out.

Not every player has the makeup to be a 6th man type

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Again I ask myself, what is it really that you expect Williams to do differently coming off the bench? Stand at the three point line and bark for the ball? He's taking his shots when he gets them and hitting them at a pretty good rate too. He had a three pointer at the end of the first quarter which didn't count because it inexplicably took IT and Cousins 9 seconds to bring the ball up the court and swing it to the wing. Had it counted he would have been 3 for 5 with 8 points in 18 minutes. The game before he was 4 for 7 with 11 points. He's got 5 blocks in the last three games which is best on the team. The only difference between Williams before the Gay trade and Williams after the Gay trade is that his opportunities to impress have been cut way down, both because of limited minutes and because IT and Gay's expanded roles have them dominating the ball. Then Jimmer and MT come in with Williams off the bench and they take all the shots while they're on the floor. Granted his rebounding rate has gone way down, but it's hard to expect anyone to play consistently hard when the reward for a big rebound or solid defensive stand is one of your guards jacking up a three pointer before you get halfway up the court and now you're back on defense again.

I like Luc a lot, but let's not overstate who he is. He's a nice complimentary player. He's contributing solid defense and little else for a .500 team for about 15-20 minutes a game. That was a good trade for us in any context. A lot of guys on our team are having trouble adjusting to the current IT/Gay/Cousins climate. We don't need to trade McLemore for a role-player who might help us win 3 or 4 more games this season and we don't need to lament trading a journeyman defensive specialist for a 22 year old forward with a ton of potential to get better. What we do need to do is find a better balance of offense and defense with the guys we have right now and continue to work towards improving individually and as a team every day.

Well said. We need to 'feed' this "beast" on a regular basis. Make no mistake, D-Will is a beast at the 3 position. We've already seen it. If you don't feed the beast, he loses his strength...quickly

 

[Glenn]

Again I ask myself, what is it really that you expect Williams to do differently coming off the bench? Stand at the three point line and bark for the ball? He's taking his shots when he gets them and hitting them at a pretty good rate too. He had a three pointer at the end of the first quarter which didn't count because it inexplicably took IT and Cousins 9 seconds to bring the ball up the court and swing it to the wing. Had it counted he would have been 3 for 5 with 8 points in 18 minutes. The game before he was 4 for 7 with 11 points. He's got 5 blocks in the last three games which is best on the team. The only difference between Williams before the Gay trade and Williams after the Gay trade is that his opportunities to impress have been cut way down, both because of limited minutes and because IT and Gay's expanded roles have them dominating the ball. Then Jimmer and MT come in with Williams off the bench and they take all the shots while they're on the floor. Granted his rebounding rate has gone way down, but it's hard to expect anyone to play consistently hard when the reward for a big rebound or solid defensive stand is one of your guards jacking up a three pointer before you get halfway up the court and now you're back on defense again.

I like Luc a lot, but let's not overstate who he is. He's a nice complimentary player. He's contributing solid defense and little else for a .500 team for about 15-20 minutes a game. That was a good trade for us in any context. A lot of guys on our team are having trouble adjusting to the current IT/Gay/Cousins climate. We don't need to trade McLemore for a role-player who might help us win 3 or 4 more games this season and we don't need to lament trading a journeyman defensive specialist for a 22 year old forward with a ton of potential to get better. What we do need to do is find a better balance of offense and defense with the guys we have right now and continue to work towards improving individually and as a team every day.

I DO lament the trading of Luc especially when I hear an exasperated Malone complaining about defense but your point is well made. I supported the Luc/Williams trade when it happened. None of us knew we would end up with Gay and that the whole team dynamic would change.

 

[Glenn]

Well said. We need to 'feed' this "beast" on a regular basis. Make no mistake, D-Will is a beast at the 3 position. We've already seen it. If you don't feed the beast, he loses his strength...quickly

The use of Jimmer seems to be in flux as he seems to be taking some of IT's minutes (one game, I know) but I think Jimmer has the common sense to feed Williams. It takes time to work these things out.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The use of Jimmer seems to be in flux as he seems to be taking some of IT's minutes (one game, I know) but I think Jimmer has the common sense to feed Williams. It takes time to work these things out.

Yeah, he does, and the other interesting point is that Williams has set up Ben better than anyone else this season

 

[Kingster]

Classic. This is what I posted about last night with Williams. Very fitting photo. Too bad they didn't have the video showing it from beginning to end. Unfortunately, this isn't a one-off, something you can discount because it's happened so infrequently. This is a theme with Williams. By the way, he had another play that I've seen so often: backpedaling from the play before the play is over with; his man goes in with no opposition for an easy offense rebound; score two for the opposition. I'm very disappointed in Williams. I thought with his athleticism he could really provide some defense and physicality to the Kings. Nope.

 

[fanop]

Classic. This is what I posted about last night with Williams. Very fitting photo. Too bad they didn't have the video showing it from beginning to end. Unfortunately, this isn't a one-off, something you can discount because it's happened so infrequently. This is a theme with Williams. By the way, he had another play that I've seen so often: backpedaling from the play before the play is over with; his man goes in with no opposition for an easy offense rebound; score two for the opposition. I'm very disappointed in Williams. I thought with his athleticism he could really provide some defense and physicality to the Kings. Nope.

I honestly think it was just a slowwwwww reaction...

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I honestly think it was just a slowwwwww reaction...

He doesn't "crash". I don't think I've seen him crash the boards once, when he is outside the key. That's a mistake that he needs to address. He could get a lot of boards and tip outs if he would simply crash with abandon on a regular basis

 

[whozit]

Again I ask myself, what is it really that you expect Williams to do differently coming off the bench? Stand at the three point line and bark for the ball? He's taking his shots when he gets them and hitting them at a pretty good rate too. He had a three pointer at the end of the first quarter which didn't count because it inexplicably took IT and Cousins 9 seconds to bring the ball up the court and swing it to the wing. Had it counted he would have been 3 for 5 with 8 points in 18 minutes. The game before he was 4 for 7 with 11 points. He's got 5 blocks in the last three games which is best on the team. The only difference between Williams before the Gay trade and Williams after the Gay trade is that his opportunities to impress have been cut way down, both because of limited minutes and because IT and Gay's expanded roles have them dominating the ball. Then Jimmer and MT come in with Williams off the bench and they take all the shots while they're on the floor. Granted his rebounding rate has gone way down, but it's hard to expect anyone to play consistently hard when the reward for a big rebound or solid defensive stand is one of your guards jacking up a three pointer before you get halfway up the court and now you're back on defense again.

I like Luc a lot, but let's not overstate who he is. He's a nice complimentary player. He's contributing solid defense and little else for a .500 team for about 15-20 minutes a game. That was a good trade for us in any context. A lot of guys on our team are having trouble adjusting to the current IT/Gay/Cousins climate. We don't need to trade McLemore for a role-player who might help us win 3 or 4 more games this season and we don't need to lament trading a journeyman defensive specialist for a 22 year old forward with a ton of potential to get better. What we do need to do is find a better balance of offense and defense with the guys we have right now and continue to work towards improving individually and as a team every day.

Along those lines, he is also good insurance. Rudy Gay has a player option next year which he is expected to take. Either next FA period or the following, he is a unrestricted free agent. Williams is under contract next year with the following year the team can offer a qualifying offer. If Rudy Gay leaves, the team still has the bases covered if Williams hasn't been traded.

 

[MizzouKing]

Well said. We need to 'feed' this "beast" on a regular basis. Make no mistake, D-Will is a beast at the 3 position. We've already seen it. If you don't feed the beast, he loses his strength...quickly

I totally agree. And I'm sure that being sent to the back of the bus is even more disheartening than it needs to be, with fresh memories of his last situation. I'd like to see us get an option that justifies sending Ben to the bench, then giving them some solid minutes together to develop their (tandem) strengths.

 

[cuad]

I think Malone could try a lot of things with DWill, but should Malone really try to reward a guy who turns into poop if he has to come off the bench? Maybe trading him would be the best bet, to a team that has an available starting SF spot with iso players elsewhere, like Cleveland, Phoenix, Memphis, or the Lakers.

 

[Jkbiker]

I would like to see DWill play as many minutes as possible behind Rudy and JT . In other words a 3 man Rotation for PF and SF

I don't think Acy or Outlaw should get ANY minutes at the forward positions

When Landry comes back then he is back up PF and Dwill Backup SF

Big Cuz has Both Acy and Gray to back him up when Cuz is resting/in Foul trouble
Coach can decide which one to use, depending on matchups (please no more Acy vs 7ft centers)

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I totally agree. And I'm sure that being sent to the back of the bus is even more disheartening than it needs to be, with fresh memories of his last situation. I'd like to see us get an option that justifies sending Ben to the bench, then giving them some solid minutes together to develop their (tandem) strengths.

I actually believe that Williams has more NBA potential and skillset than Ben does. We'll never make the most of it or find out, if he's not played in a way that inspires him for more. Feed the beast...run 'lob' plays, get the man to the rim. He thrives on feeling the rim

 

[KingMilz]

I would like to see DWill play as many minutes as possible behind Rudy and JT . In other words a 3 man Rotation for PF and SF

I honestly rather see him play SG than PF he's clearly a wing player he's not a guy can stop PF's and when you combine the fact he's a better defender than Jodie Robinson (Jodie Meeks crossed with T-Rob = M16) and eMTpty and when he has his feet set and is open has shown he can hit shots I don't see why not play him there I would say the difference between SF and SG is far smaller than SF and PF.

I rather him develop on the wing and get use to guarding smaller quicker players than have him as another undersized PF. I rather trade him than play him as a undersized PF which won't exist when the horrible signing that was Landry comes back.

 

[King Baller]

Watching the Kings assemble a team has become a lesson in irony. It seemed like we watched an endless amount of time as SG's were forced to play out of position at SF. This stunted the growth of the SG the Kings should have been grooming. The result is that the Kings best guard was allowed to sign a fat contract elsewhere.

Now the Kings have a couple of pretty good SF's and we want them to play SG Why you ask? because the guys currently playing SG are playing bad. One is playing like a raw rookie and the other is all twisted up by his situation.

The other incredibly huge elephant in the room irony is our new Coach is a defensive guru. He preaches defense and it is what he stakes his reputation on.

So what does the Front Office do? Fail to sign the 2 Free Agents guards who play the D as well as any guards in the association. They also took a pass on a big that had shown he could be a good back up center and was not afraid to D up and lay down the wood on a pick when needed.

It is going to be a long season and we muuusssttt bbbbbbeeeee pppppaaattttiiiieeeennnnnntttttttt..................................ARG!

KB