TTown Kings
Bench
Cousins coming in for a workout with Favors on Saturday
DeMarcus Cousins
- Thread starter cfechter
- Start date
Jechtsphere
Starter
I don't take anything Ford says seriously.
Well - of all the draft analysis I've read, his appears to be the most thorough.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have posted at least 5 new articles that have said positive things about Cousins. The problem is that people would much rather believe the bad stuff. I pointed out that in the video where Cousins elbowed the other player, it happened only after the other player kneed Cousins in the side of the head.
Here's what I don't get. Cousins gets kneed in the head and retaliates with his elbow, and he's the bad guy. Kevin Garnett bounces a basketball off Bobby Jackson's head and when Jackson retaliates, he's the good guy. Fox of the Lakers gets into Doug Christie's face and when Christie nails him with a perfect uppercut, he's the good guy. Corliss Williamson gets elbowed under the basket with a cheap shot. But when Corliss trys to lay a haymaker on the player from behind, he's the good guy.
Well excuse me if I don't see a difference. Except that they all happened to be on our team at the time. Cousins gets blamed for stiff arming a fan while walking off the floor. But at closer examination, it turns out to be Patrick Patterson that did the stiff arming of a fan. A fan that was running right at him. But guess what, Cousins is still getting blamed for the stiff arming. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way.
People are going to believe what they want to believe. I'm not saying Cousins is an angel. But he's not the devil either. What he is, is a very good basketball player..
LPKingsFan
All-Star
but but but... he's like on crzy medz n stuff lol and like is fat like durric colemann!
hammystyle
Starter
I think he works hard and has good sources. Good source of info, but I think his own personal analysis and projection is not very good.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, that's a pretty good read. Solid reporter, but lacking as an analyst/prognosticator. Then again, a lot of analyst/prognosticators are wrong fairly often.
sc3252
Bench
I really hope that Cousins doesn't slip past the Timberwolves. I see it as a win win if they pick him, for starters if he is a bust everyone will be wondering why they would pick an overweight center who can't even control his weight before getting paid, while if he is a super star we won't get criticized for passing on him like New Jersey will for picking a role player in Derick favors
p).
I can see why everyone wants Cousins, it just worries me that his weight is so high before getting drafted. I really question if he can keep it bellow 300 once he gets paid, which I think is a legitimate concern for a top pick, and if the Kings don't think he can keep his weight down I would be more then happy if they passed on him even if he turns into a star.
p).I can see why everyone wants Cousins, it just worries me that his weight is so high before getting drafted. I really question if he can keep it bellow 300 once he gets paid, which I think is a legitimate concern for a top pick, and if the Kings don't think he can keep his weight down I would be more then happy if they passed on him even if he turns into a star.
I tend to agree with you. For whatever reason he's obsessed with Cousins going to the Warriors at #6. What is the biggest Kings need? Low post presence that can rebound and block shots!
Monroe averaged 1.5 blocks per game last year in 35 minutes per game. He does NOT project out to be a shot blocker in the NBA, which is what the kings really need.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
At this point (before his workout), I still prefer to take Cousins at #5 over Monroe. But I also know that GP may pick Monroe over DC even if he's available. Monroe is a great passer, can shoot, skilled, unselfish etc. Thats the type of players that the Kings always liked.
I think Monroe can have a great career on the right team. I would even want to have him on our team if we already have a big strong defensive center. But we don't. So thats why I prefer cousins over monroe.
I think Monroe can have a great career on the right team. I would even want to have him on our team if we already have a big strong defensive center. But we don't. So thats why I prefer cousins over monroe.
Chupacabra
Starter
I really hope that Cousins doesn't slip past the Timberwolves. I see it as a win win if they pick him, for starters if he is a bust everyone will be wondering why they would pick an overweight center who can't even control his weight before getting paid, while if he is a super star we won't get criticized for passing on him like New Jersey will for picking a role player in Derick favors
I can see why everyone wants Cousins, it just worries me that his weight is so high before getting drafted. I really question if he can keep it bellow 300 once he gets paid, which I think is a legitimate concern for a top pick, and if the Kings don't think he can keep his weight down I would be more then happy if they passed on him even if he turns into a star.
Blah. The guy was 280 in college and he moved quite well. His size is an advantage. Keep the weight. Its certainly not a win if a team other than the Kings picks Cousins. If that happens then we didnt get him. Thats not a win.
beb0p
Starter
Ford bases his mock on the belief that Khan does not like Cousins and there are strong indication that it's the case. The Piston.com editor said Khan ignored Cousins at the combine but instead held an interview with Wesley Johnson.
But here's the thing, the T-Wolves are looking to trade the #4 pick. During an interview Khan said the following:
So if I have to bet, I'd bet that the T-Wolves trades the #4 and whoever ends up there will pick Cousins.
Khan is also going on some chatter that GP likes Monroe. Now, I don't doubt that Petrie likes the Georgetown center but I don't think he has made up his mind this early in the process.
.
Anthony1
Bench
Anybody who thinks Petrie is going to draft Cousins needs a wake up call. It just ain't gonna happen. I wish it would, but Petrie doesn't draft these kind of guys. Look at all of Petries past picks. They've all been pretty good in the character department. He's very concerned about the chemistry of this young team, and he's not going to add a potential malcontent. We need to get over Cousins already.
Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to be 100 percent off the mark with this.
Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to be 100 percent off the mark with this.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Cousins is big and strong, but he's not a defensive center. His strongest attribute is his potential for a good offensive low post game.
gunks
Hall of Famer
2 things I'm hoping right now:
1: If GP is expressing love in Monroe, I hope it is a smokescreen. That guy is a Petrie player though, but we'll see come draft day.
2: I am hoping nobody leapfrogs us for Cuz. If Minny likes Wes Johnson so much, we should just force them into working with us by saying we're taking him at #5. I wouldnt mind a trade like Landry/5 for #4 and either the 16 or 23.
1: If GP is expressing love in Monroe, I hope it is a smokescreen. That guy is a Petrie player though, but we'll see come draft day.
2: I am hoping nobody leapfrogs us for Cuz. If Minny likes Wes Johnson so much, we should just force them into working with us by saying we're taking him at #5. I wouldnt mind a trade like Landry/5 for #4 and either the 16 or 23.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
sc3252
Bench
Yes it is. Being overweight right now shows a huge lack of effort for a prospect. If the Kings do draft him I hope he doesn't balloon into the 300+ range, but I have my doubts about his willpower. Also if we draft him and he does become good I have a feeling it will be like Chris Webber before the Kings, where he bounces around the league until he matures. If the Kings do not draft him I expect there is a good reason, and that is why I won't mind passing on him. Of course if we do draft him I will be rooting for him to succeed, and I will just hope I am wrong.
To me this is a three player draft for the Kings: Cousins, Turner and Johnson - in that order.
I do think John Wall is the best prospect, but also an awful fit for this Kings team with Tyreke being the building block. And I think Favors has the biggest bust potential of any of the top players. To be fair, Cousins (who I think is an idea fit for this team) is the guy who I think has the second greatest bust potential, but unlike Favors I think he has a skill that immediately translates to the NBA game (post scoring) that Favors does not.
But my point is that ONE of those three players will almost certainly be there when the Kings pick. Most likely Johnson, then Cousins with almost zero chance of Evans being there and an only slightly greater chance that all three are gone and Favors is on the board. Even though I'm not sold on him I think GP has to take him in that scenario. I'd certainly take him above Monroe.
My point is that unless Petrie has red flagged Cousins there's no reason to even be talking about Monroe being in the mix at #5. I say you either trade up to get the guy you want most or you take whichever of the top five players is left at #5.
The Kings have horrible interior D. No shotblocking but more importantly, no physical presence or anyone to defend one on one in the post. For the last few years opposing PFs and Cs have had career games against the Kings bigs. For all his skills, Monroe wouldn't change that in the slightest.
He scares me because he is a traditional Petrie pick. An athletically limited but skilled offensive big man who doesn't make an impact on the defensive end is NOT what this team needs to make a step forward. Especially when picking in the top five of the draft.
I do think John Wall is the best prospect, but also an awful fit for this Kings team with Tyreke being the building block. And I think Favors has the biggest bust potential of any of the top players. To be fair, Cousins (who I think is an idea fit for this team) is the guy who I think has the second greatest bust potential, but unlike Favors I think he has a skill that immediately translates to the NBA game (post scoring) that Favors does not.
But my point is that ONE of those three players will almost certainly be there when the Kings pick. Most likely Johnson, then Cousins with almost zero chance of Evans being there and an only slightly greater chance that all three are gone and Favors is on the board. Even though I'm not sold on him I think GP has to take him in that scenario. I'd certainly take him above Monroe.
My point is that unless Petrie has red flagged Cousins there's no reason to even be talking about Monroe being in the mix at #5. I say you either trade up to get the guy you want most or you take whichever of the top five players is left at #5.
The Kings have horrible interior D. No shotblocking but more importantly, no physical presence or anyone to defend one on one in the post. For the last few years opposing PFs and Cs have had career games against the Kings bigs. For all his skills, Monroe wouldn't change that in the slightest.
He scares me because he is a traditional Petrie pick. An athletically limited but skilled offensive big man who doesn't make an impact on the defensive end is NOT what this team needs to make a step forward. Especially when picking in the top five of the draft.
Last edited:
bajaden
Hall of Famer
If Cousins is available, I believe you will be wrong. But there's a good chance he won't be there. If not, I'm not sold on Monroe. I went back and rewatched a couple of Greogetown games I had recorded, and I'm sorry, he just doesn't impress me. And I was trying real hard to be impressed. Much has been made of what kind of player Petire likes to draft. As if a player doesn't have certain qualities, he'll then be passed on by Petire.. so lets take a look at his record.
1994: Brian Grant, Michael Smith, and Lawrence Funderburke. Grant was the first round pick with Smith and Funderburke coming in the second round. Grant was a physcial player coming out of college. Good rebounder and decent post player with little or no outside game. Which he later developed. But he doesn't resemble the so called skilled player one thinks of when thinking of a Petrie pick. Smith was an unskilled, rebounding, physical player that couldn't shoot a basketball into the ocean. Funderburke was noted for having a temper coming out of college and was also a moody player. He actually may have been the most skilled of the three at that time.
1995: Corliss Williamson. Very skilled low post player in college with no game away from the basket. Had decent handles for a post player, but not for a SF. Decent passer. But not the most all around skilled player. Again not the total image of a Petrie choice.
1996: Peja Stojakovic. Probably the first all around skilled player of the Petrie era. Great shooter and pretty good passer. Great at playing without the ball. Became over time a very underrated defender. Was never a good rebounder for a player of his size.
1997: Olivier Saint Jean. Great athlete that couldn't shoot a lick. Had decent handles but was turnover prone. This was a pick for athleticism alone, with the hope he would develop the skills later. Once again, not the image of a typical Petrie pick. If there actually is one.
1998: Jason Williams. Tremendously skilled point guard. Looked like he was born with a ball in his hands, which were huge by the way for a player of his size. He was an inconsistant shooter, but always seemed to be money with the game on the line. He had a violent temper which I personally witnessed a couple of times. He was kicked out of a couple of colleges on his way to the NBA. So while he was a skilled player, he broke the mold of Petrie staying away from problem players.
1999: No first round pick.
2000: Hido Turkoglu. Petrie shocked the NBA world when he made this choice. Shocked me too. Hido was a pretty skilled player when he arrived. All he needed was some polishing and refining. More of a so called typical Petrie pick.
2001: Gerald Wallace. Tremendous athlete and not much else. Couldn't shoot the ball, and just didn't seem to be basketball savy. But became a crowd favorite because of his hustle and fearless approach to the game. Once again, not a typical Petrie pick. Once again Petrie was betting on Wallace developing the necessary skills. Unfortunately he didn't stay with the team long enough for that to be realized.
2002: Dan Dickau. Was immediately traded in a pre-arranged deal.
2003: No pick.
2004: Kevin Martin. A young athletic player from a small school in a small conference. He had a god awful looking shot and was inconsistant with it. He didn't have the best handles in the world and was a poor passer. He didn't know what the word defense meant. Of course as we know Martin worked on his game and became a very good basketball player. But at the time of the draft, he hardly represented the typical Petrie image.
2005: Francisco Garcia. Good all around player that excelled at nothing. He was a very inconsistant shooter in college, and tended to play out of control at times. It didn't stand out as much in college since his whole team played out of control at times. He did play with a toughness that the team needed. He comes close to the Petrie image.
2006: Quincy Douby. I'd prefer to just skip this one. My bet is that Petrie was looking for the next Bobby Jackson and just struck out. Douby was an inconsistant shooter, and for a combo guard he didn't have the necessary skills that were needed. Not sure where he fits in the scheme of things, but he's hardly the Petire image.
2007: Spencer Hawes: Probably the most recent pick that represents what most people believe to be the typical Petrie pick. Of course the question looms. Would Petrie have picked Hawes if Noah were still available. We'll probably never know unless there's a book that follows after his retirement. Whenever that might be.
2008: Jason Thompson: I suspose you could put Thompson in the group with the typical Petrie picks. But I don't really think so. Thompson played at a small school and was more of diamond in the rough type player. I doubt anyone thought he would come in and be the second coming of Webber. But I do think that Petrie envisioned Thompson as someone that might be able to do some of the same things Webber did down the road. Remember, Webber was a pretty good passer coming out of college. But he wasn't the passer we saw later in his career. Similarly, Thompson was a pretty good passer for a big man coming out of college. The jury is still out as to how good he'll eventually become. I don't however think he was the typical Petrie pick.
2009: Tyreke Evans. Hardly a Petrie pick. Couldn't shoot the ball, and had a somewhat one deminsional game. But it was one hell of a one deminsional game. Petrie bet on Tyreke developing the skills necessary to become a great player. So far so good.
Now I've looked at all of these picks and for the life of me I can't really say that there's a trend here. For every pick that appears to be the typical pick, there's another pick that contrary to that pick. He's picked players with bad tempers. He's picked players lacking in skills but loaded with athleticism. Or he's picked players that lacked all around skills, but were very skilled in at least one aspect of the game. If he thinks the best player available is the same one everyone else thinks is the best player available, he'll pick that player. But he's not afraid to reach for a player if he thinks that player is the better choice. He's been right more than he's been wrong, and thats to his credit. Its my contention that there is no typical Petrie pick. I think he looks at each player the same way and tests them all the same way. And at the end of the day he picks the player with the best combination of skills and future upside. However those two things balance out. Just my opinion...
Last edited:
You know, I'm getting that sense as well. Personally, I've come around to Cousins. The Kings need someone thick, quick, and nasty. He could be that guy. If he's not, we hope Hawes develops a little more to make up for an eventual "wasted pick". At the very least, Hawes will end up with someone to push him around in practice and toughen him up.
How many of the guys listed above are interior rebound/defense guys?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well I honestly think the jury is still out on how good or bad Cousins will be defensively. He played pretty good post defense in college. But as they say, thats not the NBA. So we'll see. But I'd put my money on Cousins over Monroe in the defensive dept. I'm trying to find the +/- stats on both players defensively, but in just one dept, shotblockintg, Cousins is definitely superior. Monroe averaged 1.5 blocks per game. Sounds pretty good until you find out he averaged one block every 22.3 minutes. Cousins averaged 1.8 blocks per game. But he averaged one block every 13.3 minutes.
Obviously Monroe played a lot more minutes than Cousins. Which of course brings us back to his conditioning. The point is that Cousins shows ability to block shots. If, and its a big if in some peoples minds, he can get into NBA shape, he just might turn out to be a good defender as well as a good offensive player. I know people question his work ethic. And some of that is justified. But he's a very skilled player in the post. And he didn't become that skilled by sitting around eating doughnuts and watching TV. He did it by working on his game. Maybe he didn't work hard enough. I don't know. But he has a huge upside and if he's dedicated I think he can be one of the top 3 or 4 centers in the league.
Now that might not be saying much when you consider all the centers in the league right now. I sat around talking with a friend the other night and we tried to think of one center in the league right now that came close to being perfect. No holes in his game. You know, a Jabbar or Akeem type. I was hard pressed to think of one. Howards great, but he still has a lot of holes in his game. I think Pau Gasol comes pretty close, but he plays PF more than he does center.
Anyway, the door is wide open for a player like Cousins to come in and dominate. Yeah, he has a lot of IF's attached to him right now. And I'm not one thats prone to gamble, but this is one gamble that I would take.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'm not making the comparison between Cousins and Monroe. I'm just making the statement that imo Cousins doesn't have the athletic ability to be a top 10% center on the defensive end in the NBA. He has the girth. He the length. But he doesn't have the quickness or the jumping ability. He can be pretty good eventually if he really puts his mind to it and works on it and gets and keeps his weight down. But if a fan is looking for the answer on the defensive end of the floor, then I think they've mistaken girth for defensive ability.
ElRey
Starter
His vertical is actually not that bad for somebody his size and weight. It'll likely improve quite a bit with some weight loss. That vertical measure at the draft combine is with a weight of 290. He's definitely not earth bound from what I've seen.
He doesn't have otherworldly jumping ability sure, but he has decent lift for such a big man and he ABSOLUTELY has quickness. He is remarkably light on his feet and quick for a man of his size. His agility drill numbers at the combine are better than Favors who is being touted as the most athletic big in the draft and equal to that of Wes Johnson. And his sprint was virtually the same as Whiteside whose calling cards are shotblocking and athleticism.
I don't see Cousins ever being a volume shotblocker but he has the size, strength and quickness to be an interior presence on defense, and most importantly to guard opposing bigs in the post. The last couple seasons of watching mediocre opposing PFs and Cs walk through our frontcourt for easy baskets has been incredibly frustrating. Besides blocking or altering shots has a lot more to do with length, timing and anticipation than jumping. Mutombo was hardly a leaper. Cousins has the length, footspeed, girth and basketball IQ to be a very good defender if he puts in the effort on that end.
I have no doubt that Cousins can be an offensive force in the post and a very good rebounder right away. I do doubt that he'll be a good defender initially but he certainly has the tools to be if he wants to.
If we are solely talking about on court concerns, my two big worries with Cousins are (1) conditioning/motor and (2) the fact that he far too often brings the ball down low before going back up with it, often with too low a release point. It's something Brad Miller always did and something that SHOULD be correctable. It negates the size advantage of a big man and opens them up to have their shot blocked far too often. Cousins got away with it in college because he could clear so much space for himself and didn't see the kind of length and athleticism he'll see in the NBA.
But his defense? I'm confident that while he may not be great, he'll be a big improvement on what the Kings have. And far better than Monroe would be.
But again, I really think Cousins will be gone by pick 3 unless teams really are scared off by his red flags.
Sparky6string
Bench
I'd say he has very good quickness and athleticism for a man his size. He's still largely a below the rim player but with the positioning he gets it doesn't matter much.
Sparky6string
Bench
I think he'll be gone by 4, which is why we should be on the phone with Minni.
