bajaden
Hall of Famer
Last time I checked, Minny had Al Jefferson at the PF position. I think they need a center. Of course they could play Love at center I suspose. Memphis definitely needs a PF.
Combine Results...
- Thread starter nbrans
- Start date
Last time I checked, Minny had Al Jefferson at the PF position. I think they need a center. Of course they could play Love at center I suspose. Memphis definitely needs a PF.
hammystyle
Starter
That is a good vert, but Aldridge was slow in agility and the sprint too. They do rankings and he was ranked very low.
My point was just that it doesn't matter too much. Its worth noting, but shouldn't be one of the main factors in your draft board.
I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis on combine numbers, as some have already said. Just going back through the past combines can give you an idea of how deceptive these numbers can be
when compared with the actual performances of these players (though I really don't have an explanation as to why this is).
For example, JJ Redick is listed as having a 33" max vertical leap which is just a little under Andre Iguodala's listed max vertical of 34.5" and two full inches better than Monta Ellis' 31" vertical. Anyone who has watched these three play should be able to tell right off the bat that something is fishy with those measurements.
Honestly, anyone who has watched Darrell Arthur play can tell you that he has a much better vertical than 30", a vertical which, by the way, would mean that he can only jump an inch higher than our own Spencer Hawes.
Arthur's height isn't really much of an issue either, to be honest. He is undersized at around 6'8", but his standing reach is a solid 8'11" and that combined with his athletic ability is what really matters.
All that said, I still am not particularly high on him because he isn't a very good rebounder or defender and he lacks the size to bang in the post (though that can obviously change over time). But I wouldn't be that disappointed if ended up being our draft pick.
when compared with the actual performances of these players (though I really don't have an explanation as to why this is).
For example, JJ Redick is listed as having a 33" max vertical leap which is just a little under Andre Iguodala's listed max vertical of 34.5" and two full inches better than Monta Ellis' 31" vertical. Anyone who has watched these three play should be able to tell right off the bat that something is fishy with those measurements.
Honestly, anyone who has watched Darrell Arthur play can tell you that he has a much better vertical than 30", a vertical which, by the way, would mean that he can only jump an inch higher than our own Spencer Hawes.
Arthur's height isn't really much of an issue either, to be honest. He is undersized at around 6'8", but his standing reach is a solid 8'11" and that combined with his athletic ability is what really matters.
All that said, I still am not particularly high on him because he isn't a very good rebounder or defender and he lacks the size to bang in the post (though that can obviously change over time). But I wouldn't be that disappointed if ended up being our draft pick.
hammystyle
Starter
Although I agree the combine results aren't worth much, for a guy like Arthur it is actually fairly important. Because frankly, his on-court production is not very good, so this is where he had to shine. He's only in lottery consideration because he's reported to have a great size/athleticism combo. Well, if he's not really that tall, can't really jump that high, and doesn't really put up the numbers on the basketball court, what exactly are you drafting him for?
Well the point of my post was that even though he only has average height for a PF (his NBA listing will probably be at 6'9") he does have a good, though not spectacular, standing reach, which is what really matters for a big man. He is actually pretty close to Al Horford, who I believe is about an inch taller but with the same standing reach.
As for his athleticism, again I'm somewhat skeptical of the combine numbers for a couple of reasons. One, they just don't pass the eye test. Every draft site has been talking about Darrell's athleticism since he has appeared on draft boards. Just go look up some videos of him on youtube and you'll see that he is a great athlete. After watching them can you honestly tell me that he can only jump an inch higher than Spencer Hawes? I mean, a 30" vertical is actually pretty bad for a PF.
My second problem is that looking at the numbers from previous combines there are clearly players who haven't performed to their potentials. For example, TJ Ford, who most people regard as being one of the fastest players in the league, ran the 3/4 court sprint in the same time as Kevin Love and Sasha Kaun.
Furthermore, take a look at the numbers for JJ Redick and Monta Ellis:
3/4 Sprint Lane Agility Max Vert.
JJ 3.29 10.94 33"
Monta 3.31 12.13 31"
Clearly, something is wrong here. Anyone who has seen these two play knows that Monta is head and shoulders above JJ in terms of athleticism and is easily one of the most athletic combo guards in the league today. So how does JJ Redick, a player who I don't think has ever even dunked in a game, come out as being a better all around athlete than a guy like Monta? My first guess would be that he hired a trainer and trained specifically for these drills, while perhaps Monte wasn't preparing as much. Or maybe Monta was injured an unable to play at 100%.
Whatever the reason, the point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't just rely on the raw numbers from the combine to judge athleticism. There can be reasons why a players performance doesn't match up with what you see from him in game, and some players are likely trained especially for the combine drills, thus making them out to be better athletes than they really are.
Ultimately I think you have to go with what your eyes tell you and not rely on just one demonstration of a players athleticism.
All in all, I think the original report on Arthur was pretty accurate: he is a great athlete with good length for the position. He has a great offensive game, including some nice low post moves, good footwork inside, and a nice mid-range jumpshot. He is still about 15-20 lbs. away from being able to bang in the post, and isn't that great of a rebounder. He has also been very inconsistent numbers wise, though that might just be a product of his foul problems as well as the fact that he played on a very talented team. Still, he has had pretty impressive performances in big games against Florida and Memphis, putting up 19 and 9 and 20 and 10 respectively, while hitting clutch shots towards the end of both games.
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