Can Sacramento afford to rebuild?

[nbrans]

We here at Kingsfans.com are the die-hards of die-hards, the people who come online to rant and rave about the team, follow every single bit of news, watch every game, argue over incredible minutae and otherwise spend our time following the Kings when we should be working, sleeping and attending to personal hygeine.

In other words: we are not normal.

We're not the average Kings fans, the type of people the Maloofs need to fill Arc -- the people who follow the Kings casually, the bandwagoneers, even the die-hard fans who don't quite have the obsession to come online and post everyday. We all know the more average Kings fan -- friends and family whose attention drifts in and out depending on if the team is interesting, whether their favorite player is with the team, and who, when they actually watch a game, will say something like, "Who's that Abdur-Rahim guy?"

We die-hards of the die-hards absolutely know the steps this team needs to take. We know the team needs to lose for a good draft pick, we know the team needs to go young. We're going to be here no matter what -- the team could be absolutely terrible and we'd still go to Arco, watch the games, root for the team and argue about it afterwards.

This is not true for the casual fan. The average fan wants the team to be entertaining and good, and their attention drifts easily. When the team goes on a losing streak or is uninspired, their attention drifts to something else. They'll come on Kingsfans.com to post about how they're going to start rooting for the Spurs or Lakers or whoever else. Sure, there were many years when the team was bad and people still came to Arco, but that was before ticket prices went through the roof and people became spoiled by years of success. You see it already -- people aren't showing up to games and you can hardly sell spare tickets, and people are booing.

So my question is this -- especially during a sensitive time when a new arena hangs in the balance, can this team afford a rebuild? Do you think enough of the more casual fans will stick with the team for a rebuild to make economic sense from the Maloofs' standpoint? From a cool, hard cash standpoint, what makes more sense -- mediocrity and scraping to an 8th seed or the type of big-time rebuild this team needs?

 

[Vlade4GM]

just because the common fan isn't "die hard" doesn't mean they're an idiot. they know that this team is lost right now and and they know what drafts picks and young players mean. they mean hope for a future. if they come to the games they obviously care enough to know something about basketball and they should know the benefits of being a rebuilding team compared to a .500 team.

 

[Cal-Kings]

The Dallas Mavericks rebuilt their entire team in the last 2-3 years, only keeping one player, Dirk. Yet they never skipped a beat. They also changed head coaches.

Rebuilding doesn't have to mean your team sucks for 10 years. Or it shouldn't if you have a good GM and owner.

I think Petrie was hoping to not skip a beat either. But IMHO, the Webber trade was so horrendous that it took the life out of this team and this city. I realize it saved us maybe $8-10 million dollars next year.

I wonder if Petrie thinks it was worth it.

 

[nbrans]

The Dallas Mavericks rebuilt their entire team in the last 2-3 years, only keeping one player, Dirk. Yet they never skipped a beat. They also changed head coaches.

Rebuilding doesn't have to mean your team sucks for 10 years. Or it shouldn't if you have a good GM and owner.

I think Petrie was hoping to not skip a beat either. But IMHO, the Webber trade was so horrendous that it took the life out of this team and this city. I realize it saved us maybe $8-10 million dollars next year.

I wonder if Petrie thinks it was worth it.

The Dallas thing isn't quite fair because they never had a major injury and also have a $80 million payroll. But in any event, I'm not asking a personnel question -- what I mean is, do you think attendance is going to still be strong even if this team goes the blow-it-up and lose games for a draft pick route?

 

[Heuge]

If the team survived from 85-00, I dont see why the fan-base wouldnt survive a rebuild.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

The Dallas Mavericks rebuilt their entire team in the last 2-3 years, only keeping one player, Dirk. Yet they never skipped a beat. They also changed head coaches.

The Spurs did this too, but with Tim Duncan. But we don't have a Tim or Dirk.

Now, as for the OP, I think that casual fans can get excited about many things. Winning is obviously one, but if we rebuild, that won't come for a while.

But there are other things that get people excited too. Superstars get people excited, especially young, emerging superstars. Say we nab one in the draft, and that young talent starts tearing it up in the league. Not only do jersey sales go over the roof, but people will pay to watch these guys perform, even if the team itself loses alot. Guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Tmac are often the hottest tickets in town.

So, if you do start to rebuild, you hope that the excitement over that emerging talent can carry you over until you do start to win. And then from there it's all smooth sailing. What the management should NOT do is just let things go slowly, because then not only are you losing money, but getting it back in the future gets delayed.

 

[Cal-Kings]

The Dallas thing isn't quite fair because they never had a major injury and also have a $80 million payroll. But in any event, I'm not asking a personnel question -- what I mean is, do you think attendance is going to still be strong even if this team goes the blow-it-up and lose games for a draft pick route?

The people in the arena these days aren't the same people who were there 15 years ago.

It's a tougher crowd. It's more corporate seats.

So no, I think that crowd, based on the boos, will find other things to do with their money.

And the older fans can't afford to pick up those seats.

 

[SACKINGS4EVER]

Wasn't it that Arco resounded with shouts of MVP for ...Kobe? That, i think, is a good indication that lots of Kings fans weren't around that night, and will not stand behind a team that doesn't show love for the game and its fans.

 

[Bricklayer]

Attendance will fall off. And...so what. Attendance is falling off anyway. That is the essential dynamic here -- the team is dying, the fans are dying, only its a slow death now. The blow it up philosophy is that you speed the death up, get it over with ala (and I've used this before) quickly yanking off a bandaid or tape rather than pulling it off slowly, hair by hair. And so rather than years of slowly declining attendance slowly smothering the franchise, you give that quick yank, crash, hold your nose for a few months, and then start the climb back up all the quicker. And start it back up while the memories of better tiems are still relatively fresh in the possible fanbase's minds, rather than 5 years from now when all they can remember is the long slow depressing decline and don't even remember what its like to be passionate about the team.

 

[whozit]

I think that nbrans point is/was a pertinent one. I also think Petrie's quote in one of the other threads give a strong indication which way they WERE leaning. The last half of last season had brought back some excitment, sort of like fools gold. My guess is they were hoping to be able to rebuild while keeping the excitement in the game and in the fan base. Unfortunately, instead it turned into deja vu of the beginning of last season.

However, I had wondered myself along the same lines as the OP and how much weight it might carry.

 

[CruzDude]

What ever the Kings are going through now every team goes thru at one time or another. Its been a great 6 year run (98-04) and an interesting 2 yr + run with 8 consecutive playoff appearances. So we can't complain. A small market team..... 8 years of success...... Only two others can claim that.

The playing chemistry seems to be the problem combined with too small a front court and no interior defense, which could be compensated for with better, more consistent offense.

So Kings need to rebuild. That's reality. Let's go with it and support the "team". I take some issue with the "hard core" fan being better able to see what is needed vs. the "casual" fan. Many of those "casual" fans have been coming to most or all of the Kings game for 5, 10, even 15 years whereas a good many of the "hardcore' fan may only be attending some games and for a few years. Both are necessary. Both are important. So let's include every fan in this. The Kings need all the help they can get.

 

[CruzDude]

The people in the arena these days aren't the same people who were there 15 years ago.

It's a tougher crowd. It's more corporate seats.

So no, I think that crowd, based on the boos, will find other things to do with their money.

And the older fans can't afford to pick up those seats.

But they are the same folk from 5-10 years ago.

I think the boos came from the hardcore and more knowledgeable fan who has seen what the current team can do when it wants.

Whats age got to do with picking up those seats? If you mean the longer term season ticket holders and longer term attendees, that may be true.

What happens with the arean situation if they do rebuild? Ugh.

 

[Vlade4GM]

i think the real question is can they afford NOT to rebuild? I think NO!!

 

[Oscar]

i think the real question is can they afford NOT to rebuild? I think NO!!

Vlade4's right. The Kings need to rebuild, and if so, they have to start now. Also, a new arena has to be built or, despite Stern saying that "We'll take care of it," the Kings are gone.

 

[BudWright]

Can Sacramento Afford to Rebuild

For what it's worth: Our seats are in Section 203, a few rows up, about at the 3 point line, right across from the visitor's bench. We could hear this chant, but could not make out what was being said. We asked our seat mates (really nice Laker fans) if they knew as it was coming from a group of Laker fans behind the Laker bench. They told us it was "MVP." We were not that far away, so it was not "resounding."

 

[most_casual_observer]

..., and will not stand behind a team that doesn't show love for the game and its fans.

This may be the key in my opinion, love for the game. I think the Kings can prosper through a rebuild if the players are well coached and doing their best to win every night. I don't think the Kings can survive blase' efforts by the players on the floor, and ill-conceived or non-existent gameplans.

There is a big difference between neophyte execution on the floor and a "I don't care, I get paid anyhow" attitude. I never complained when a J Will pass went 5 rows deep into the stands, he was trying to make something happen.

 

[sk4fan]

can the kings afford to rebuild? they can't afford NOT to rebuild. Might hurt for a couple or few seasons but it will benefit this franchise in the long run.

 

[kingsfan101]

So my question is this -- especially during a sensitive time when a new arena hangs in the balance, can this team afford a rebuild? Do you think enough of the more casual fans will stick with the team for a rebuild to make economic sense from the Maloofs' standpoint? From a cool, hard cash standpoint, what makes more sense -- mediocrity and scraping to an 8th seed or the type of big-time rebuild this team needs?

This is what I have always said. Does Petrie have a mandate from the Maloofs for a full scale rebuild? Except for some recent statements, there were no indications of it.

In an earlier thread I had said that Petrie has been going with relatively safe picks in recent drafts (all grown up guys with significant college experience). Aim being to get guys who can contribute immediately, with an eye on the playoffs. Earlier, when we were contending, he was drafting projects (international player like Hedo and high schoolers like GW). That was the correct thing, since draft picks, however safe, wouldn't have received PT on a contending team anyway. However, safe picks in recent times indicates the opposite, and a desire to make the playoffs.

Let's see if he goes into a full rebuild mode. It's easier said than done though. Finding good deals for our vets, whose performance has not been commensurate with their contracts is not too easy. It might take more than this year to ship off some of the guys he might be planning to.

 

[Viking]

can the kings afford not to rebuild and sit content with sucking in no particular direction

 

[VF21]

We here at Kingsfans.com are the die-hards of die-hards, the people who come online to rant and rave about the team, follow every single bit of news, watch every game, argue over incredible minutae and otherwise spend our time following the Kings when we should be working, sleeping and attending to personal hygeine.

In other words: we are not normal.

We're not the average Kings fans, the type of people the Maloofs need to fill Arc -- the people who follow the Kings casually, the bandwagoneers, even the die-hard fans who don't quite have the obsession to come online and post everyday. We all know the more average Kings fan -- friends and family whose attention drifts in and out depending on if the team is interesting, whether their favorite player is with the team, and who, when they actually watch a game, will say something like, "Who's that Abdur-Rahim guy?"

We die-hards of the die-hards absolutely know the steps this team needs to take. We know the team needs to lose for a good draft pick, we know the team needs to go young. We're going to be here no matter what -- the team could be absolutely terrible and we'd still go to Arco, watch the games, root for the team and argue about it afterwards.

This is not true for the casual fan. The average fan wants the team to be entertaining and good, and their attention drifts easily. When the team goes on a losing streak or is uninspired, their attention drifts to something else. They'll come on Kingsfans.com to post about how they're going to start rooting for the Spurs or Lakers or whoever else. Sure, there were many years when the team was bad and people still came to Arco, but that was before ticket prices went through the roof and people became spoiled by years of success. You see it already -- people aren't showing up to games and you can hardly sell spare tickets, and people are booing.

So my question is this -- especially during a sensitive time when a new arena hangs in the balance, can this team afford a rebuild? Do you think enough of the more casual fans will stick with the team for a rebuild to make economic sense from the Maloofs' standpoint? From a cool, hard cash standpoint, what makes more sense -- mediocrity and scraping to an 8th seed or the type of big-time rebuild this team needs?

Forget about the arena. That's not gonna matter if the team has gone so far down and lost so many fans that they can't recover.

A rebuild can be exciting to watch. It's the doing nothing that gives the casual fan fits.

 

[VF21]

But they are the same folk from 5-10 years ago.

I think the boos came from the hardcore and more knowledgeable fan who has seen what the current team can do when it wants.

Whats age got to do with picking up those seats? If you mean the longer term season ticket holders and longer term attendees, that may be true.

What happens with the arean situation if they do rebuild? Ugh.

I vehemently disagree. The boos are coming from the "instant gratification" group, for the most part.

And the people with their butts in the seats are a lot different than those of 5-10 years ago. The never-ending increases in ticket prices shut out a lot of the loyal fans who had been there for years. They simply couldn't afford $115 @ for tickets that used to cost around $30.

 

[BJax24]

The Dallas Mavericks rebuilt their entire team in the last 2-3 years, only keeping one player, Dirk. Yet they never skipped a beat. They also changed head coaches.

Rebuilding doesn't have to mean your team sucks for 10 years. Or it shouldn't if you have a good GM and owner.

I think Petrie was hoping to not skip a beat either. But IMHO, the Webber trade was so horrendous that it took the life out of this team and this city. I realize it saved us maybe $8-10 million dollars next year.

I wonder if Petrie thinks it was worth it.

however one bad personel move is the difference between championship runs and decades of dispare. the maloofs and petrie are walking on a fine line here...

 

[Oscar]

Forget about the arena. That's not gonna matter if the team has gone so far down and lost so many fans that they can't recover.

A rebuild can be exciting to watch. It's the doing nothing that gives the casual fan fits.

How can you just dismiss what nbrans said about the new arena? You tell others to respect posters and their opinions, yet time and time again you walk all over someone who disagrees with you. nbrans makes valid points. Whether a team is winning or losing, a new arena can have a positive effect on the community. In the long run it can only help the community it serves if the owners are on board too.

 

[chelle]

I think you misunderstood her post. VF STRONGLY supports and advocates a new arena. What she seems to be saying is that right now the focus has to be on fixing the team. Doing nothing and not attempting to make the team better will not help get a new arena. In fact, it will harm it because many will lose interest and not support a new arena. Even if we get one, the fan base may not be big enough to carry it if the team continues as is with no hope for the future.

 

[Evenstar]

i'm on the rebuild bandwagon ( i've even grabbed a seat on the tank wagon... *hides head* )

there is something seriously wrong, there is no good reason a team with as many talented players as the kings have should be as bad as they are. it just makes no sense. that onus is going on the coach. whatever he's doing isn't working. the changes he's made aren't working

we have all stars, DPOY's and emerging stars on our team, are you telling me they can't figure out some sort of combination to win games? there is no reason for it! this team should have a better offensive game plan instead of isolations that lead to bad jump shots.

fire the coach, and draft a BIG MAN WHO CAN REBOUDN THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! oden, big baby, oh hell i''m sure there are more ( ok the oden is a pipe dream....) anyone! hobbit ball is killing me!

i've had enough at this point. i'd rather see a tank mode, lets see what the kids can do. send away disgruntled players, lets just get back on the right path to winning basketball. i'l willing to endure (the rest of) a bad season if it gets the kings back on track next year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

How can you just dismiss what nbrans said about the new arena? You tell others to respect posters and their opinions, yet time and time again you walk all over someone who disagrees with you. nbrans makes valid points. Whether a team is winning or losing, a new arena can have a positive effect on the community. In the long run it can only help the community it serves if the owners are on board too.

This entire post is a straw man. Nothing to see here, people.