Bye Tyreke? Kings unlikely to offer max...

[Glenn]

As to Tyreke pounding the ball, that stopped this year when Smart took over and even now when he is playing point forward or whatever his position is, he doesn't "pound the ball." That's in the past except in a recent game when he was supposed to be "the man" in closing out a game. Everyone in that position "pounds the ball."

 

[Anthony1]

Reke needs to be back at starting PG. Not because he's our best PG, but because this is where Reke fits the best. Hopefully next year he will get the starting PG spot back, and can at least get his numbers back on track so we can get something decent in trade.

 

[Sac.1989]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/22/4432957/ailene-voisin-kings-evans-reach.html

 

[ParniValjak]

The Kings brain trust is so incompetent I am willing to bet everything I have that they will screw this one up. They will either trade Tyreke for some middling talent, or he walks as a FA because they are not willing to match what he will no doubt get on the open market.

I have absolutely no doubt that with a coach that actually knows what he is doing Tyreke will be a perennial all-star. Unfortunately, he will not get that type of coach here so for his sake, he needs to end up on a team with a coach that known how to use him and develop him. Hopefully for our sake that is with us but if it is not, I have no doubt that it will turn into the most monumental **** ups of all time and it will be attributed to our incompetent hierarchy.

Maybe Maloofs will try and save some face around these parts and go out and pay for a real coach. You know a coach that starts in the $5-6 million range per season and could go as high as $10-12 million. Not this cheapest in the crap that we have been subjected to for the last 3 years.

Get Nate McMillan and I can guarantee you Tyreke is back to his best and Cousins continues to beast. This team has some nice pieces, none better than Cousins and Tyreke. We just need a coach that knows how to get the best out of these guys. Coach Dumb is most certainly is not that coach but for Tyreke's sake and our sake, I hope we get a coach that knows how to utilize his 2 best players.

 

[Sac.1989]

yep it only makes sense that since our way to the top is through youth we invest in good coaching to lead them there

 

[jcwkings]

tyreke doesn't deserve max, he has to prove he is a franchise player(which he hasn't). Alot of it is the incompetence of this franchise to develop young players, bad coaching, bad management, terrible personnel moves. But Tyreke not having a jumpshot falls squarely on him. Its the one thing that has held him back, and he still hasn't improved since his rookie year. If you look at that draft, Tyreke was the most talented player in the draft(as shown on his rookie year), since then alot of the players have continued to grow and are better than Tyreke now.

IMO Blake Griffin, James Harden, Ricky Rubio, Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday have more value than Tyreke at this point.

Other than Griffin and Rubio(will end up being the 2 best players in the draft), Tyreke still has the most potential over any of the other guys, but at some point potential becomes just that. Its getting close for Tyreke.

 

[UK_King]

Potential is just a word at the end of the day.

The dictionary definition is telling.

latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success

 

[hrdboild]

You know what, Tyreke needs to work on a jumpshot in order to become an elite player, but he was already playing at an All-Star level as a rookie. It would be nice to have one of the best 3 or 4 two-way guards in the league on our team, but I would be happy with having merely an All-Star. Rajon Rondo still doesn't have a jumpshot but he's played in 3 straight All-Star games because he does everything else well. I don't see how anyone can watch Tyreke play for the past 3 seasons and come to the conclusion that he's expendable unless he develops a reliable outside shot in the next year.

Keith Smart isn't the worst coach we've had in Sacramento, but he's not a good one. And his handling of Tyreke this season is a black mark on the franchise. That Geoff Petrie continues to sit idly by and do nothing about it confirms he should not be the GM of this team. If you look at his record, it's pretty clear that Geoff lost interest in running this franchise about 8 years ago and he's just had it going on auto-pilot ever since. We need a clean-sweep of front office personnel to get some people in there who are going to be pro-active about building a competitive team. Unfortunately the people that should be making that decision are busy proving to the world that they're complete lunatics.

 

[jcwkings]

You know what, Tyreke needs to work on a jumpshot in order to become an elite player, but he was already playing at an All-Star level as a rookie. It would be nice to have one of the best 3 or 4 two-way guards in the league on our team, but I would be happy with having merely an All-Star. Rajon Rondo still doesn't have a jumpshot but he's played in 3 straight All-Star games because he does everything else well. I don't see how anyone can watch Tyreke play for the past 3 seasons and come to the conclusion that he's expendable unless he develops a reliable outside shot in the next year.

Keith Smart isn't the worst coach we've had in Sacramento, but he's not a good one. And his handling of Tyreke this season is a black mark on the franchise. That Geoff Petrie continues to sit idly by and do nothing about it confirms he should not be the GM of this team. If you look at his record, it's pretty clear that Geoff lost interest in running this franchise about 8 years ago and he's just had it going on auto-pilot ever since. We need a clean-sweep of front office personnel to get some people in there who are going to be pro-active about building a competitive team. Unfortunately the people that should be making that decision are busy proving to the world that they're complete lunatics.

Rondo has elite court vision and passing ability, and is very clever around the rim. Tyreke has neither and is hit or miss around the rim(makes a great layup, then draws a charge or gets blocked/misses layups).

 

[bajaden]

Potential is just a word at the end of the day.

The dictionary definition is telling.

The great football coach, Vince Lombardi said the the word potential means "You haven't done anything yet".

 

[hrdboild]

Rondo has elite court vision and passing ability, and is very clever around the rim. Tyreke has neither and is hit or miss around the rim(makes a great layup, then draws a charge or gets blocked/misses layups).

Thanks for completely ignoring my point and instead arguing against a statement I never made. I know Tyreke is not Rajon Rondo, my point was that you don't need to be a great shooter to be an All-Star. There's more than one path to success.

 

[bajaden]

Rondo has elite court vision and passing ability, and is very clever around the rim. Tyreke has neither and is hit or miss around the rim(makes a great layup, then draws a charge or gets blocked/misses layups).

Pure nonsense! Tyreke is one of the best finishers in the entire league. His problem isn't his ability, its that every team loads up on him around the rim. Put Kevin Garnett, Paul Piece, and Ray Allen on the team, and watch the basket open up. Two of our three best scorers, score best around the basket. Sort of makes it easier for good defensive teams to defend us don't you think. Just load up at the basket, and take your chances on the Kings beating you on the outside. This isn't freaking rocket science.

 

[Glenn]

The Kings brain trust is so incompetent I am willing to bet everything I have that they will screw this one up. They will either trade Tyreke for some middling talent, or he walks as a FA because they are not willing to match what he will no doubt get on the open market.

I have absolutely no doubt that with a coach that actually knows what he is doing Tyreke will be a perennial all-star. Unfortunately, he will not get that type of coach here so for his sake, he needs to end up on a team with a coach that known how to use him and develop him. Hopefully for our sake that is with us but if it is not, I have no doubt that it will turn into the most monumental **** ups of all time and it will be attributed to our incompetent hierarchy.

Maybe Maloofs will try and save some face around these parts and go out and pay for a real coach. You know a coach that starts in the $5-6 million range per season and could go as high as $10-12 million. Not this cheapest in the crap that we have been subjected to for the last 3 years.

Get Nate McMillan and I can guarantee you Tyreke is back to his best and Cousins continues to beast. This team has some nice pieces, none better than Cousins and Tyreke. We just need a coach that knows how to get the best out of these guys. Coach Dumb is most certainly is not that coach but for Tyreke's sake and our sake, I hope we get a coach that knows how to utilize his 2 best players.

You took the words out of my brain. Let me throw a curveball at you just for us to contemplate. Let us assume the Maloofs don't pay for an experienced coach and continue their search for the cheapest coach available. In my book, that means they will not find a coach that can make use of the athletic abilities of Tyreke. Why not trade to a team with a great coach who might might use of Tyreke?

There is no question we aren't getting our money's worth out of Tyreke and there is no question Tyreke is confused on the court. I don't blame Tyreke. How is a mediocre to average PG supposed to become an undersized SF? His skills are wasted. How is a guy who has height advantage and quickness to have an advantage over just about any guard he is matched with be used with at best equal athletic ability and most likely size advantage over Tyreke?.

Trade him but don't give him away. Trade him value for value. Some team will value Tyreke more than Smart does. Tyreke has been the ultimate team player and although this is a business, doing a good deed for a loyal employee isn't the worst move the team could make especially if they got themselves a REAL SF or a REAL shotblocking PF or C. Tyreke is worth a lot to the right team and the right team is not the Kings.

 

[Glenn]

the answer to that question may depend on whether we insist on keeping Keith Smart as our coach.

Oh, crap, you know the answer to that. The Maloofs goal is to find the cheapest coach they can find and with that goal in mind, they will never find a coach with the creativity to use Tyreke's unique skills.

 

[bajaden]

Thanks for completely ignoring my point and instead arguing against a statement I never made. I know Tyreke is not Rajon Rondo, my point was that you don't need to be a great shooter to be an All-Star. There's more than one path to success.

I don't disagree with your statement. But I also think that if you were to put Rondo on the Kings, he wouldn't make that big a difference. Sacrilege and purely subjective, I know. But no one will convince me that its not easier for a PG to look good with three all stars on his team, than it is with a bunch of young inexperienced players. I think the main benefactor would be Cousins.

Everyone admits that the Kings are not a good defensive team. But there are those that believe thats the only problem. That our offense is just fine and we have no problem scoring points. In fact, because you score a lot of points in a game, it doesn't mean your very efficient at it.

The Kings average as a team 43.2% from the floor. The Celtics average 46.2% from the floor. Another example would be the Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor. Now simple math will tell you that if each team takes the same number of shots, the one with the higher shooting percentage will win that game.

Now I realize that its not that simple, but frankly, 43.2% stinks, and when added to our poor defense, it adds up to a lot of losses. Here's another shocker for you. The Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor, which is bad enough, are shooting over 50% against us. As a matter of fact, in general most teams in the league shoot higher than their team percentage against us.

So how do you win with those stats? Well, mostly you don't! Thats just a fact folks! For the most part, our scoring went up, not because of our effiency, but because were playing at a faster pace and thus taking more shots in a 48 minute period. Unfortunately, so is the other team. In short, we stink on both sides of the ball. Not necessarily as individuals, but as a team.

This team needs wholesale changes for the better. And its not going to be fixed by merely moving around the parts. The parts are what need changing along with the mentality.

 

[hrdboild]

I don't disagree with your statement. But I also think that if you were to put Rondo on the Kings, he wouldn't make that big a difference. Sacrilege and purely subjective, I know. But no one will convince me that its not easier for a PG to look good with three all stars on his team, than it is with a bunch of young inexperienced players. I think the main benefactor would be Cousins.

Everyone admits that the Kings are not a good defensive team. But there are those that believe thats the only problem. That our offense is just fine and we have no problem scoring points. In fact, because you score a lot of points in a game, it doesn't mean your very efficient at it.

The Kings average as a team 43.2% from the floor. The Celtics average 46.2% from the floor. Another example would be the Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor. Now simple math will tell you that if each team takes the same number of shots, the one with the higher shooting percentage will win that game.

Now I realize that its not that simple, but frankly, 43.2% stinks, and when added to our poor defense, it adds up to a lot of losses. Here's another shocker for you. The Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor, which is bad enough, are shooting over 50% against us. As a matter of fact, in general most teams in the league shoot higher than their team percentage against us.

So how do you win with those stats? Well, mostly you don't! Thats just a fact folks! For the most part, our scoring went up, not because of our effiency, but because were playing at a faster pace and thus taking more shots in a 48 minute period. Unfortunately, so is the other team. In short, we stink on both sides of the ball. Not necessarily as individuals, but as a team.

This team needs wholesale changes for the better. And its not going to be fixed by merely moving around the parts. The parts are what need changing along with the mentality.

It's an interesting point about Rondo, but I'm not sure where you're going with this. This current team plays no defense at all, and has a lot of players who like to create their own (low percentage) shot. The result of that is that we're near the bottom of the league in just about every category but offensive rebounding. The parts and the mentality absolutely need changing, I've been saying that all season. Within the first two weeks of January it was clear we were headed right to the bottom of the standings. There was no structured offense, no communication on defense, and our franchise center was being pushed into a corner and ignored. When Keith Smart took over there was a brief respite as it looked like new leadership was going to establish some order, but that has unfortunately failed to happen. The only reason we've managed to win the 20 games that we won is because Smart has made it a priority to get Cousins the ball and he's delivered on his potential.

That's my perspective. We can and have debated at great length which parts are worth keeping and which should be traded/dropped. If you're suggesting that Tyreke would look a heck of a lot better if he were playing on a team with All-Star teammates and a respected coach than I agree! One of the points I keep harping on repeatedly over the years is that you can't evaluate player development in a vacuum. Players need to be in a situation that helps them succeed. Rondo got that and he's turned himself into an All-Star. But I still remember his rookie season before Ainge brought in KG and Allen. That Boston team was one of the worst in the league and Doc Rivers couldn't make up his mind if he preferred Rondo or Telfair at PG. He had Delonte West and Paul Pierce facilitating most of the offense from the wing positions. If that situation continues for 3 years probably Boston shops Rondo, keeps looking for a PG in the draft, and ends up in the same cycle of discarding talent that we're headed for.

We need a coach that maximizes his players talents, we need offensive parts which compliment each other, and we need all the rotation players and the coach to buy into the idea that consistently strong defensive intensity is going to help you win games. Failing that, I agree with you that it doesn't much matter who we keep or trade or which players we bring in. It's the organization itself that needs a change of philosophy and everything else should follow from that.

 

[bajaden]

It's an interesting point about Rondo, but I'm not sure where you're going with this. This current team plays no defense at all, and has a lot of players who like to create their own (low percentage) shot. The result of that is that we're near the bottom of the league in just about every category but offensive rebounding. The parts and the mentality absolutely need changing, I've been saying that all season. Within the first two weeks of January it was clear we were headed right to the bottom of the standings. There was no structured offense, no communication on defense, and our franchise center was being pushed into a corner and ignored. When Keith Smart took over there was a brief respite as it looked like new leadership was going to establish some order, but that has unfortunately failed to happen. The only reason we've managed to win the 20 games that we won is because Smart has made it a priority to get Cousins the ball and he's delivered on his potential.

That's my perspective. We can and have debated at great length which parts are worth keeping and which should be traded/dropped. If you're suggesting that Tyreke would look a heck of a lot better if he were playing on a team with All-Star teammates and a respected coach than I agree! One of the points I keep harping on repeatedly over the years is that you can't evaluate player development in a vacuum. Players need to be in a situation that helps them succeed. Rondo got that and he's turned himself into an All-Star. But I still remember his rookie season before Ainge brought in KG and Allen. That Boston team was one of the worst in the league and Doc Rivers couldn't make up his mind if he preferred Rondo or Telfair at PG. He had Delonte West and Paul Pierce facilitating most of the offense from the wing positions. If that situation continues for 3 years probably Boston shops Rondo, keeps looking for a PG in the draft, and ends up in the same cycle of discarding talent that we're headed for.

We need a coach that maximizes his players talents, we need offensive parts which compliment each other, and we need all the rotation players and the coach to buy into the idea that consistently strong defensive intensity is going to help you win games. Failing that, I agree with you that it doesn't much matter who we keep or trade or which players we bring in. It's the organization itself that needs a change of philosophy and everything else should follow from that.

I believe we're in agreement, and basicly saying the same thing. I think my point about Rondo, is that one player isn't going to save the team, or make enough of a difference to make us a contender. The entire atmosphere has to change along with those that are creating the current atmosphere. That could, and should include the coach.

 

[Kingster]

I don't disagree with your statement. But I also think that if you were to put Rondo on the Kings, he wouldn't make that big a difference. Sacrilege and purely subjective, I know. But no one will convince me that its not easier for a PG to look good with three all stars on his team, than it is with a bunch of young inexperienced players. I think the main benefactor would be Cousins.

Everyone admits that the Kings are not a good defensive team. But there are those that believe thats the only problem. That our offense is just fine and we have no problem scoring points. In fact, because you score a lot of points in a game, it doesn't mean your very efficient at it.

The Kings average as a team 43.2% from the floor. The Celtics average 46.2% from the floor. Another example would be the Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor. Now simple math will tell you that if each team takes the same number of shots, the one with the higher shooting percentage will win that game.

Now I realize that its not that simple, but frankly, 43.2% stinks, and when added to our poor defense, it adds up to a lot of losses. Here's another shocker for you. The Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor, which is bad enough, are shooting over 50% against us. As a matter of fact, in general most teams in the league shoot higher than their team percentage against us.

So how do you win with those stats? Well, mostly you don't! Thats just a fact folks! For the most part, our scoring went up, not because of our effiency, but because were playing at a faster pace and thus taking more shots in a 48 minute period. Unfortunately, so is the other team. In short, we stink on both sides of the ball. Not necessarily as individuals, but as a team.

This team needs wholesale changes for the better. And its not going to be fixed by merely moving around the parts. The parts are what need changing along with the mentality.

I totally agree that the shooting percentage issue has largely been ignored and that it must improve for the Kings to win. This team isn't 4th from the bottom just because of defense. Also, they can't fix this team on defense at the expense of offense. They've got to fix both without hurting the other. Bringing in a couple of defensive guys who can't shoot isn't going to cut it.

 

[Gilles]

I don't disagree with your statement. But I also think that if you were to put Rondo on the Kings, he wouldn't make that big a difference. Sacrilege and purely subjective, I know. But no one will convince me that its not easier for a PG to look good with three all stars on his team, than it is with a bunch of young inexperienced players. I think the main benefactor would be Cousins.

Everyone admits that the Kings are not a good defensive team. But there are those that believe thats the only problem. That our offense is just fine and we have no problem scoring points. In fact, because you score a lot of points in a game, it doesn't mean your very efficient at it.

The Kings average as a team 43.2% from the floor. The Celtics average 46.2% from the floor. Another example would be the Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor. Now simple math will tell you that if each team takes the same number of shots, the one with the higher shooting percentage will win that game.

Now I realize that its not that simple, but frankly, 43.2% stinks, and when added to our poor defense, it adds up to a lot of losses. Here's another shocker for you. The Thunder who average 47.3% from the floor, which is bad enough, are shooting over 50% against us. As a matter of fact, in general most teams in the league shoot higher than their team percentage against us.

So how do you win with those stats? Well, mostly you don't! Thats just a fact folks! For the most part, our scoring went up, not because of our effiency, but because were playing at a faster pace and thus taking more shots in a 48 minute period. Unfortunately, so is the other team. In short, we stink on both sides of the ball. Not necessarily as individuals, but as a team.

This team needs wholesale changes for the better. And its not going to be fixed by merely moving around the parts. The parts are what need changing along with the mentality.

Good defense that forces difficult shots and turnovers helps offense by simple fact that you have more transition and good early offense chances because opposing defense doesn't have time to set up properly. And those are usually very high percentage shots, that are improving your FG% quite drastically.
Being a good defensive rebounding team helps a lot too since it eliminates high percentage shots for opponents.
Having clear roles and some team play on offense by setting screens and moving like you know what might happen the next moment and not running into your teammate who happens to post up near the basket that same moment goes a long way too.
This team desperately needs Jeff Van Gundy with his good defensive and rigid but effective offensive sets.