Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Note there is some language in the SLAM interview.
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/slam-top-50/demarcus-cousins-number-9/
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/slam-top-50/demarcus-cousins-number-9/
Boogie #9 in SLAM rankings
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Chupacabra
Starter
Boogie is #2 in the chupacabra rankings. Behind Lebron, of course.
I mean, I don't detect any lies...
gil renard
Bench
#9 seems about right factoring in talent/current production/team success...needs to win to move beyond fringe top 10 player.
Chupacabra
Starter
I will never understand wins as a metric of evaluating individuals in a team sport.
K
KingMilz
Guest
9 is also the number of games we are predicted to be below 500. by multiple media sources so makes sense.
lwc
Starter
Empty stats like Kevin Love had in Minnesota. He was averaging nearly 30-15! Once he went to a winning team, he became a 3rd option. Advanced metrics always showed he was not as good as his numbers suggested. The opposite holds true for Boogie. As terrible as the Kings have been, Boogie has been proven to be a great player stuck on terrible teams.
gil renard
Bench
Yeah, it's not entirely fair with this situation, but that's just how the national narrative is going to be. You could probably count on one hand the number of players in the NBA that could have led this roster to the playoffs during Boogie's time here.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Given circumstances I'm not entirely convinced that's not 1 finger. And that guy's one of the 5 or 10 best players of all time. MAYBE Durant. Maybe. But when stuck out on their own we've seen all the rest of the top guys struggle to get teams with better rosters/organizations/not-in-total-****ing-chaos-constantly in the playoffs in the West (except, I suppose Harden, if anybody would like to make that argument).
lwc
Starter
Yeah, I'd say only LeBron and part of that is because he can play point forward. He can take tell ball and take over.
uolj
Starter
Hmmm...
Later...
DeMarcus Cousins combined winning percentage: .333
Even though I agree with the premise of the article and what Boogie said, something tells me there's a little more to it than just a .081 difference in win percentage.
Later...
Anthony Davis' combined winning percentage: .414
DeMarcus Cousins combined winning percentage: .333
Even though I agree with the premise of the article and what Boogie said, something tells me there's a little more to it than just a .081 difference in win percentage.
I think the consensus would say that AD is better than Cousins. This isn't a slight to Cousins at all...and not sure why anyone would take it that way. AD is a very good scorer, and probably more versatile than Cousins. He's more efficient from the floor, and isn't as ball dominant as Cousins. AD can actually play off the ball, where as Cousins struggles in that area.
AD is a better defender too. He's agile and quick enough to guard any PF in the league. Pair this with the fact that he's a great rim protector.
AD fits the mold of the current NBA much more than Cousins does. Another thing you have to consider is how much of a leader both of the guys are. AD is a much better leader than Cousins.
The only way Cousins can surpass AD is if he improves his efficiency, tunes down his TOs, and matures on the court.
If AD were more consistently healthy I'd take him over Cousins 9 out of 10 times. My opinion may change if Cousins has a good year under Joerger.
I can agree with the parts in red, not so much the rest of it. I am also intrigued by how you are quantifying Davis' "leadership."
whoopdeedoo
Bench
I'd rather start a team with Cousins and rather plug AD into a good team to put them over the top. I am still not convinced AD has the personality/skill set to be the number 1, goto guy on offense. In a situation like Westbrook/Durant where it was pretty much 1a/1b I think AD would be a better fit. But for a team with only one clear star I take Boogie 9/10 times.
The semantics always gets messy in conversations like this though! I'd like to think professionals would be skilled enough to build winners around either player without much difficulty...
AD leads by example. For his first 2 years, I always felt like AD was more on the soft side and didn't know how to rally his teammates together. However, a lot has changed since then, and he's become much more vocal now.
He has a really good demeanor on the court, and tries to lead his teammates in that way. On the floor, if AD gets fouled, but the refs miss it, he doesn't wail his arms and complain. He runs directly back in transition, and tries to alter the shot. He understands that if he didn't get the call, nothing is changing.
You can either:
A) get extremely angry, yell at the ref, don't get back on defense, let it frustrate your game, and let your teammates down
or
B) move on, get back on defense.
In 65 games last year, Cousins earned 17 technicals. In 61 games last year, Davis earned 1 technical.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
you're a bit confused if you think that's a good thing.
A.D. is a great talent, but he's soft as a down pillow, and not a man to lead a Girl Scout troop (actually, I'm not sure they allow any men to lead Girl Scout troops, but still). Its precisely that non-confrontational quiet "efficiency"/stay out of the wayness that makes him highly dubious as a high level lead you to the promised land sort of player. His prime will come when they get him a major PG with leadership skills so that A.D. can just concentrate on receiving plays rather than initiating.
How do you quantify "leading by example"? Your post seems to suggest that you are placing a disproportionately high value (IMO) on technical fouls in your leadership metric.
lwc
Starter
To speak about Davis's leadership abilities, on that 2012 Kentucky team from all indications Michael Kidd-Gilchrist was the vocal leader but Davis and Darius Miller were the behind the scenes, get to meetings, come early/stay late players.
On the 2010 Kentucky team there was no doubt the John Wall was the absolute leader of that team. If anyone veered off Wall's leadership path, Cousins would get them back in line by any means necessary, lol
On the 2010 Kentucky team there was no doubt the John Wall was the absolute leader of that team. If anyone veered off Wall's leadership path, Cousins would get them back in line by any means necessary, lol
Chupacabra
Starter
This is for everybody; If youre a GM and you got to pick 2nd overall out of any player in the league would you really pick Curry instead of Cousins? Westbrook? Durant? If I was really trying to pick the best player available after Lebron it would definitely be Cousins.
Are you building a team from scratch? Will you also have your pick of every player in the league to surround him with, or is the rest of your team randomized? That's kind of a difficult question to answer in a vacuum.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
if I had the 2nd pick in the draft I would gladly take KAT and not look back, I've been watching him in preseason. My god he got fast, he definitely lost weight in the off season and just added more to his game, he is going to tear it up under Thibs.
Yes, if nothing else but for the simple reason that those guys are proven winners. Bird in hand and what not.
But then again, 2-3 years ago some on this board wouldn't even trade Cousins for a "past his prime" LeBron that would only give us 2 good years or something like that.
K
KingMilz
Guest
How could you not pick Curry/Durrant/Harden/Cp3 all these guys are elite and carried teams as #1 options, if it's about winning right now and in the near future there's a number of guys you take before Cousins that's not even a question. I'm not sure I would take him over PG13/Kawahi either.
Eh... I don't know about that, at least not as a declarative statement. There are too many mitigating factors, that's why I said I'd need to know what the rest of the team looks like. I mean, a lot of people will tell you that Stephen Curry is, objectively, empirically better than Cousins, and maybe they're right, but it's actually not that cut and dried. Like, if you traded Stephen Curry for, say... Kemba Walker, straight up, is he still elite? Does he get the
I think that there are only two guys in the NBA right now, whom you could plug into any roster in the league, and that team would become contenders overnight. And one of them is LeBron James, and the other one is not Stephen Curry. Do I think that the other one is DeMarcus Cousins? Please; let's not kid ourselves. My point is that, if we had drafted Curry in 2009, instead of Evans, nobody in the world would be talking about how "elite" Stephen Curry is; in fact, there's probably a 50/50 chance that he would have been labeled a bust by now.
K
KingMilz
Guest
That is a pretty fair point and one I always bring up about using advanced statistics and statistics in general so it's only fair I acknowledge that and I do agree currently there's 2 guys (to me the other is Durant might be different for you) who could turn any team into a contender/playoff team. But based on recent history I would go with the likes of Curry/Harden/PG13 (the latter two carried average rosters to playoffs in particular Harden's first year in Houston) but I just have never seen Cousins as the 2nd best player in the L and I personally think there's a gigantic gap between KD/LB23 and everyone else.
Chupacabra
Starter
30 or so GM's all drafting a brand new team from scratch. This mythical "win factor" really throws people off. There is nothing that players other than Lebron do that magically makes their team win that Cousins doesnt do. There is no "win factor".
Ok so there is a clutch shooting factor. The Kings dont win so few games due to a lack of clutch shooting on Cousins part.
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