Blow It Up

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-trade-rumors-jaylen-brown-154011053.html?src=rss

Fischer: Hield has definitely been open for trade possibilities for a while now… Regarding Simmons, to this point, I haven’t heard Fox has been made available, and I don’t know how much interest he would have amongst Philly officials now that Tyrese Maxey has flourished. I don’t know if they view Fox as an upgrade to Maxey. I don’t know if they’d view Fox as a piece that elevates their championship window alongside Embiid.

Fischer: I think Jerami’s situation reminds me of Aaron Gordon’s last year in Orlando. I don’t know what direct landing spot there could be for him right now. I think you can kind of connect the dots of intel where there have definitely been talks between Sacramento and Detroit about Marvin Bagley. Is there a way to send Jerami Grant to Sacramento? I don’t know. Denver obviously really liked Grant back when they had him.

Me: Maxey > Fox. Yea, I can see that. Grant is nice, but if true, Monte would effectively be doubling down on the black hole PG. Bet on winners, Monte.
 
Yeah I got low expectations.

I don’t think any GM is chomping at the bit to land Buddy and Bagley. McNair has been trying to trade those goofballs since he got here.

Holmes, Hali, and Fox are probably the only pieces on this roster that anyone would consider trading for.

McNair got handed a pile of poop, and Vivek (+ fans) are like, “make this poop edible!” and then get mad when all McNair does is sprinkle some salt on it. Rival GMs know that poop is poop.
 
Sounds like Boston has no intention of breaking up Tatum and Brown. If correct there goes my favourite choice of a trade target in Brown. I don’t think the Kings could package a deal they would want anyways.
Turner would be a nice target, questionably a good fit with Holmes but an upgrade that wants an expanded roll.
I’m also not expecting much to happen. Perhaps we can some how wangle a young wing that needs a change of scenery.
 
Last edited:
gunks said:
Yeah I got low expectations.

I don’t think any GM is chomping at the bit to land Buddy and Bagley. McNair has been trying to trade those goofballs since he got here.

Holmes, Hali, and Fox are probably the only pieces on this roster that anyone would consider trading for.

McNair got handed a pile of poop, and Vivek (+ fans) are like, “make this poop edible!” and then get mad when all McNair does is sprinkle some salt on it. Rival GMs know that poop is poop.
Click to expand...

exactly lol. I think our best trade package without Fox in it is Ty/Barnes/1st. Now all we can do is pray for a miracle and we get something nice in return
 
kb02 said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-trade-rumors-jaylen-brown-154011053.html?src=rss

Fischer: Hield has definitely been open for trade possibilities for a while now… Regarding Simmons, to this point, I haven’t heard Fox has been made available, and I don’t know how much interest he would have amongst Philly officials now that Tyrese Maxey has flourished. I don’t know if they view Fox as an upgrade to Maxey. I don’t know if they’d view Fox as a piece that elevates their championship window alongside Embiid.

Fischer: I think Jerami’s situation reminds me of Aaron Gordon’s last year in Orlando. I don’t know what direct landing spot there could be for him right now. I think you can kind of connect the dots of intel where there have definitely been talks between Sacramento and Detroit about Marvin Bagley. Is there a way to send Jerami Grant to Sacramento? I don’t know. Denver obviously really liked Grant back when they had him.

Me: Maxey > Fox. Yea, I can see that. Grant is nice, but if true, Monte would effectively be doubling down on the black hole PG. Bet on winners, Monte.
Click to expand...

I was very much in the camp that was hoping McNair would manage to buy low on Ben Simmons in the offseason. I saw no need to dangle De'Aaron Fox in a trade for a player whose value was cratering by the day, especially after Fox was coming off a breakout season. My opinion at the time was that the Sixers had miscalculated and held onto Simmons for too long, and now I find myself wondering if the Kings have done the same thing with Fox...

I was encouraged by Davion Mitchell's preseason despite thinking it was a mistake to draft yet another PG who was not an obvious BPA with star-level potential. But at this point, I have returned to believing it's really problematic that the Kings' three best under-24 talents are all PG's. It's shrinking all of their value as potential trade pieces, and there is nothing else on the roster that will yield significant value in return. Now that the Kings are staring down the barrel of another losing season, there are basically three routes forward:

1) Stick to "the plan" and try to trade Hield/Bagley for whatever marginal piece(s) you can get, which won't be enough to improve the team meaningfully.
2) Get proactive and trade Fox for whatever maximum-value piece(s) you can get, and hope it balances the roster enough to buoy the Kings' playoff chances.
3) Go nuclear and trade everybody except Haliburton and Mitchell for any first round picks you can get, lose as many games as possible, and begin yet another rebuild.

I suppose there is a fourth route. Do nothing. But that hardly seems like a viable option given the way things are going. Then again, experience tells me that it's also the likeliest outcome, which is rather depressing.

I think what frustrates me the most about this franchise are the self-inflicted wounds. Retaining Walton was a mistake. He was always going to be fired if the Kings got off to a slow start, so why not get ahead of inevitability and let McNair conduct a proper search for a head coach he believes in? Drafting Davion Mitchell was also a mistake, not because he won't be a good player but because it created a roster imbalance that would force the Kings to eventually choose two of Fox/Hali/Mitchell.

Surprisingly, I now find myself wishing that McNair had decided to dangle Fox for Simmons. Morey may not have ultimately decided to bite, but according to reports, he certainly seemed amenable to the idea. Simmons/Hali/Mitchell/Barnes/Holmes would not have been a world-beating core, but it would have been much-better balanced with much greater defensive potential.

Now it's highly unlikely that Fox alone could get you Simmons, and it's unclear what kind of Fox-centered package could get you Simmons. So what now? There are certainly other worthy trade targets, but it will require the Kings to be far more aggressive on the trade market than McNair has suggested he intends to be. If he sits on his hands with eyes set on the "prize" of the play-in, then he's just going to become another ex-Kings GM who invested in a few too many half-measures.
 
Padrino said:
I was very much in the camp that was hoping McNair would manage to buy low on Ben Simmons in the offseason. I saw no need to dangle De'Aaron Fox in a trade for a player whose value was cratering by the day, especially after Fox was coming off a breakout season. My opinion at the time was that the Sixers had miscalculated and held onto Simmons for too long, and now I find myself wondering if the Kings have done the same thing with Fox...

I was encouraged by Davion Mitchell's preseason despite thinking it was a mistake to draft yet another PG who was not an obvious BPA with star-level potential. But at this point, I have returned to believing it's really problematic that the Kings' three best under-24 talents are all PG's. It's shrinking all of their value as potential trade pieces, and there is nothing else on the roster that will yield significant value in return. Now that the Kings are staring down the barrel of another losing season, there are basically three routes forward:

1) Stick to "the plan" and try to trade Hield/Bagley for whatever marginal piece(s) you can get, which won't be enough to improve the team meaningfully.
2) Get proactive and trade Fox for whatever maximum-value piece(s) you can get, and hope it balances the roster enough to buoy the Kings' playoff chances.
3) Go nuclear and trade everybody except Haliburton and Mitchell for any first round picks you can get, lose as many games as possible, and begin yet another rebuild.

I suppose there is a fourth route. Do nothing. But that hardly seems like a viable option given the way things are going. Then again, experience tells me that it's also the likeliest outcome, which is rather depressing.

I think what frustrates me the most about this franchise are the self-inflicted wounds. Retaining Walton was a mistake. He was always going to be fired if the Kings got off to a slow start, so why not get ahead of inevitability and let McNair conduct a proper search for a head coach he believes in? Drafting Davion Mitchell was also a mistake, not because he won't be a good player but because it created a roster imbalance that would force the Kings to eventually choose two of Fox/Hali/Mitchell.

Surprisingly, I now find myself wishing that McNair had decided to dangle Fox for Simmons. Morey may not have ultimately decided to bite, but according to reports, he certainly seemed amenable to the idea. Simmons/Hali/Mitchell/Barnes/Holmes would not have been a world-beating core, but it would have been much-better balanced with much greater defensive potential.

Now it's highly unlikely that Fox alone could get you Simmons, and it's unclear what kind of Fox-centered package could get you Simmons. So what now? There are certainly other worthy trade targets, but it will require the Kings to be far more aggressive on the trade market than McNair has suggested he intends to be. If he sits on his hands with eyes set on the "prize" of the play-in, then he's just going to become another ex-Kings GM who invested in a few too many half-measures.
Click to expand...

Yea, that Simmons for Fox trade was a no brainer over the summer. I still think there is still a scenario where the Kings can get Simmons for Fox, but it would likely involve a third team.

If the Kings do not get someone like Simmons, I think the 5 spot needs a major upgrade. No, I'm not saying Holmes sucks. Holmes needs to be pushed down to the second unit for him and the Kings to truly thrive. Dude feasts on similarly sized bigs. He's a liability against true 5s or as the only big on the court for the Kings. Which center would work? Sabonis. I prefer Sabonis to Turner, because Sabonis is levels better than Turner as a facilitator. The Kings need a front court connector.

Like many on this board, I think the smart money is on McNair sitting on his hands. He's the type of poker player, who plays tight. The few moves that he'll make, you know he has a good hand. Whenever he enters a tourney, there is a 99.9% chance that he gets blinded out. And only a .01% chance that he wins it all. I prefer bold execs, who aren't afraid to go for it all. I hate middle manager, lifer types, who always buy IBMs, because it's the safest choice.
 
Padrino said:
I was very much in the camp that was hoping McNair would manage to buy low on Ben Simmons in the offseason. I saw no need to dangle De'Aaron Fox in a trade for a player whose value was cratering by the day, especially after Fox was coming off a breakout season. My opinion at the time was that the Sixers had miscalculated and held onto Simmons for too long, and now I find myself wondering if the Kings have done the same thing with Fox...

I was encouraged by Davion Mitchell's preseason despite thinking it was a mistake to draft yet another PG who was not an obvious BPA with star-level potential. But at this point, I have returned to believing it's really problematic that the Kings' three best under-24 talents are all PG's. It's shrinking all of their value as potential trade pieces, and there is nothing else on the roster that will yield significant value in return. Now that the Kings are staring down the barrel of another losing season, there are basically three routes forward:

1) Stick to "the plan" and try to trade Hield/Bagley for whatever marginal piece(s) you can get, which won't be enough to improve the team meaningfully.
2) Get proactive and trade Fox for whatever maximum-value piece(s) you can get, and hope it balances the roster enough to buoy the Kings' playoff chances.
3) Go nuclear and trade everybody except Haliburton and Mitchell for any first round picks you can get, lose as many games as possible, and begin yet another rebuild.

I suppose there is a fourth route. Do nothing. But that hardly seems like a viable option given the way things are going. Then again, experience tells me that it's also the likeliest outcome, which is rather depressing.

I think what frustrates me the most about this franchise are the self-inflicted wounds. Retaining Walton was a mistake. He was always going to be fired if the Kings got off to a slow start, so why not get ahead of inevitability and let McNair conduct a proper search for a head coach he believes in? Drafting Davion Mitchell was also a mistake, not because he won't be a good player but because it created a roster imbalance that would force the Kings to eventually choose two of Fox/Hali/Mitchell.

Surprisingly, I now find myself wishing that McNair had decided to dangle Fox for Simmons. Morey may not have ultimately decided to bite, but according to reports, he certainly seemed amenable to the idea. Simmons/Hali/Mitchell/Barnes/Holmes would not have been a world-beating core, but it would have been much-better balanced with much greater defensive potential.

Now it's highly unlikely that Fox alone could get you Simmons, and it's unclear what kind of Fox-centered package could get you Simmons. So what now? There are certainly other worthy trade targets, but it will require the Kings to be far more aggressive on the trade market than McNair has suggested he intends to be. If he sits on his hands with eyes set on the "prize" of the play-in, then he's just going to become another ex-Kings GM who invested in a few too many half-measures.
Click to expand...
With the emergence of Maxey almost think any trading Fox to obtain Simmons would need to be a multi team trade.
It’s a shame if Fox has lost value this year. I’m not sure how much is him or if this guard heavy roster and poorly balanced team is dragging his effectiveness down.
I suspect the 3 PG situation will need to get broken up and that Monte might lean to moving ahead with his own draft picks.

Well I’ll leave my post, yours Kb02 popped up while I was typing
 
Joshoua said:
Am I missing something why does Detroit wanna get rid of Grant so badly
Click to expand...
I guess the idea is that they'd get more assets for their rebuild by trading Grant but they're also three years into their big rebuild at this point and already the odds-on favorite to have the worst record in the league anyways sooo.

The one thing I will say is that Grant plays the same position as two of the top three players in the draft so maybe they're trying to pre-clear the logjam there?

Top-three player from this draft/Cade/Grant still sounds better to me as something to build around than whatever they think they'll get instead though.
 
Tetsujin said:
I guess the idea is that they'd get more assets for their rebuild by trading Grant but they're also three years into their big rebuild at this point and already the odds-on favorite to have the worst record in the league anyways sooo.

The one thing I will say is that Grant plays the same position as two of the top three players in the draft so maybe they're trying to pre-clear the logjam there?

Top-three player from this draft/Cade/Grant still sounds better to me as something to build around than whatever they think they'll get instead though.
Click to expand...
I don’t have much of a take on Grant. He certainly puts up some good numbers and plays the position of our biggest need. So if he is a good target? what would it take to get him?
 
jiimbob said:
I don’t have much of a take on Grant. He certainly puts up some good numbers and plays the position of our biggest need. So if he is a good target? what would it take to get him?
Click to expand...

He's making 20 million dollars a year so technically you can package Bagley and TT's expiring with a first round pick or two and get it done. Not sure that's the sort of package Detroit would be looking for though or the sort of move we should be making.
 
EIM86 said:
exactly lol. I think our best trade package without Fox in it is Ty/Barnes/1st. Now all we can do is pray for a miracle and we get something nice in return
Click to expand...

How did I forget about Barnes?! I think he definitely has value… maybe less than earlier in the season when he was on a tear, but he’s still a solid addition to a playoff team.

I don’t see any “win now” moves though, although I’m sure Vivek is all excited about the rumblings of LA wanting to ditch Westbrook.
 
gunks said:
How did I forget about Barnes?! I think he definitely has value… maybe less than earlier in the season when he was on a tear, but he’s still a solid addition to a playoff team.

I don’t see any “win now” moves though, although I’m sure Vivek is all excited about the rumblings of LA wanting to ditch Westbrook.
Click to expand...

selling the farm for Westbrook and Simmons might be the only way to completely tank this team (by convincing Vivek that we’d be contenders with just those two)
 
Joshoua said:
Am I missing something why does Detroit wanna get rid of Grant so badly
Click to expand...

Grant had a stat bump last year but that only goes so far. He's not a player you build around period. And the damage for him might be done since he might feel that he is with the role he was given in Detroit. I really love Detroits plan so far, but they should have ditched Grant at the deadline last year. You don't sit on players like that. Yes, they can help a team but they are not cornerstones.
 
Padrino said:
I was very much in the camp that was hoping McNair would manage to buy low on Ben Simmons in the offseason. I saw no need to dangle De'Aaron Fox in a trade for a player whose value was cratering by the day, especially after Fox was coming off a breakout season. My opinion at the time was that the Sixers had miscalculated and held onto Simmons for too long, and now I find myself wondering if the Kings have done the same thing with Fox...

I was encouraged by Davion Mitchell's preseason despite thinking it was a mistake to draft yet another PG who was not an obvious BPA with star-level potential. But at this point, I have returned to believing it's really problematic that the Kings' three best under-24 talents are all PG's. It's shrinking all of their value as potential trade pieces, and there is nothing else on the roster that will yield significant value in return. Now that the Kings are staring down the barrel of another losing season, there are basically three routes forward:

1) Stick to "the plan" and try to trade Hield/Bagley for whatever marginal piece(s) you can get, which won't be enough to improve the team meaningfully.
2) Get proactive and trade Fox for whatever maximum-value piece(s) you can get, and hope it balances the roster enough to buoy the Kings' playoff chances.
3) Go nuclear and trade everybody except Haliburton and Mitchell for any first round picks you can get, lose as many games as possible, and begin yet another rebuild.

I suppose there is a fourth route. Do nothing. But that hardly seems like a viable option given the way things are going. Then again, experience tells me that it's also the likeliest outcome, which is rather depressing.

I think what frustrates me the most about this franchise are the self-inflicted wounds. Retaining Walton was a mistake. He was always going to be fired if the Kings got off to a slow start, so why not get ahead of inevitability and let McNair conduct a proper search for a head coach he believes in? Drafting Davion Mitchell was also a mistake, not because he won't be a good player but because it created a roster imbalance that would force the Kings to eventually choose two of Fox/Hali/Mitchell.

Surprisingly, I now find myself wishing that McNair had decided to dangle Fox for Simmons. Morey may not have ultimately decided to bite, but according to reports, he certainly seemed amenable to the idea. Simmons/Hali/Mitchell/Barnes/Holmes would not have been a world-beating core, but it would have been much-better balanced with much greater defensive potential.

Now it's highly unlikely that Fox alone could get you Simmons, and it's unclear what kind of Fox-centered package could get you Simmons. So what now? There are certainly other worthy trade targets, but it will require the Kings to be far more aggressive on the trade market than McNair has suggested he intends to be. If he sits on his hands with eyes set on the "prize" of the play-in, then he's just going to become another ex-Kings GM who invested in a few too many half-measures.
Click to expand...

I think there is a fourth option that most people aren't considering, either because they gave up on Fox a long time ago or because they're overreacting to 1/3 of a season under a lame duck coach / interim coach who've already proven they don't know how to manage this roster...

Keep our max player who is already a top 20 scorer in the league right now and build a respectable defense around him. I think Mitchell should be part of that. You need a point of attack defender against the league's top ball handlers. I'm already feeling like a bit of a dolt for mentioning a guy on a two-way contract who hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet so much but seeing our guys get punked under the basket over and over again then giving up offensive boards that lead to back breaking threes on the other end has really reinforced for me that the small, quick lineup experiment is not working and somebody like Queta, while old school for a big man, could give us an element we need badly -- physicality.

So if we have a leading scorer, a point of attack defender, and an enforcer in the paint already we can use the rest of our assets to acquire physical wing defenders. Forget about the offense for a minute which has still more or less got the job done despite looking like a disorganized playground pickup game and let's start from the ground up putting together a lineup that can consistently stop other teams from scoring. Do we have enough assets to acquire Ben Simmons without giving up Fox? Maybe. Some combination of Hield/Haliburton/Barnes/Holmes and picks is better than anything which has been floated out there already. And that's a first-team All-NBA defender that we can play alongside last year's college DPOY Davion Mitchell and last year's college blocks leader Neemias Queta.

Would spacing be a problem? Certainly. But if people here are willing to sell everything and watch a last place team just for the hope that a lottery pick will save us, wouldn't they also be willing to watch a top 10 defense even if they have trouble scoring? The novelty alone of a Kings team that plays defense might spark something in the fanbase.
 
Fox for player like Morant make more sense. Fox is just as valuable as him and the reason he isn't is because he's playing on a losing team. Of course Grizzlies ain't giving up Morant. Ben Simmons just don't fit because we got Haliburton. So if the trade go through, a 3rd team must be involved...something like Simmons to Lakers, AD to Kings, Fox to Philly.
 
reptilexcq2 said:
Fox for player like Morant make more sense. Fox is just as valuable as him and the reason he isn't is because he's playing on a losing team. Of course Grizzlies ain't giving up Morant. Ben Simmons just don't fit because we got Haliburton. So if the trade go through, a 3rd team must be involved...something like Simmons to Lakers, AD to Kings, Fox to Philly.
Click to expand...

Haliburton and Simmons would fit well together. If you are going big Haliburton can catch and shoot when Simmons kicks out the ball to shooters ( something Fox fails to do). If you are going small and playing Simmons at the 5, a Hali/Simmons dribble hand-off or pick and roll would be hard to stop. Not to mention Simmons and Mitchell would be able to cover for Hali defensively.

Fox isn’t close to as valuable as Morant because Ja can stretch the floor and Fox can’t.
 
sactowndog said:
Haliburton and Simmons would fit well together. If you are going big Haliburton can catch and shoot when Simmons kicks out the ball to shooters ( something Fox fails to do). If you are going small and playing Simmons at the 5, a Hali/Simmons dribble hand-off or pick and roll would be hard to stop. Not to mention Simmons and Mitchell would be able to cover for Hali defensively.

Fox isn’t close to as valuable as Morant because Ja can stretch the floor and Fox can’t.
Click to expand...

Lol people are still on that Fox/Morant nonsense that was clear as day in Morant’s rookie season that he was the better player

you’re right about Hali/Simmons
 
sactowndog said:
Haliburton and Simmons would fit well together. If you are going big Haliburton can catch and shoot when Simmons kicks out the ball to shooters ( something Fox fails to do). If you are going small and playing Simmons at the 5, a Hali/Simmons dribble hand-off or pick and roll would be hard to stop. Not to mention Simmons and Mitchell would be able to cover for Hali defensively.

Fox isn’t close to as valuable as Morant because Ja can stretch the floor and Fox can’t.
Click to expand...

still dreamin huh lol
 
SLAB said:
I’ve seen that floating. Who knows how true it is or isn’t, but the fact it’s 100% believable and not just wild hyperbolic stretching is pretty sad.
Click to expand...

Well, it's 100% believable because it isn't anything new/novel. Like oh, Fox is detached, we sure haven't noticed that. Buddy wants to get out of Sac, SHOCKER after almost getting traded. If anything, the fact that we've been seeing Moe Harkless yell + talk to Buddy from the bench suggests to me this is complete BS. If you know your team mate is just kicking rocks why on earth would you be talking to him trying to get him to play better.
 
SLAB said:
I’ve seen that floating. Who knows how true it is or isn’t, but the fact it’s 100% believable and not just wild hyperbolic stretching is pretty sad.
Click to expand...

If not true it would be more surprising. These are all the signs of Vivek led basketball organization. Rookie GM Monte McNowhere left messes sitting in the corner from day 1 and the longer you let them sit the dirtier and nastier they get. Vlade made messes but at least he usually cleaned them up at some point.
 
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