Bitcoin

The Kings are going to use Bitcoin. What I have read is very disconcerting.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sacramento-kings-accept-bitcoin-purchases-185008008--nba.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

Am I the only one who thinks this is very risky?
Yes and no. Unless there are legal reasons not to do it, the worse that would happen is it would be essentially unsold seats and some merchandise losses provided the use was not widespread. If it became widespread in use, then risk becomes much greater. With the fluctuation in it's value, it's possible that they could come ahead. Their not risk adverse it seems.
 
I found the Wikepedia article very confusing. Is Bitcoin anything like using gold as the medium of exchange? We all exchange cash for bitcoins/gold and use it to buy things at the arena. The value of the bitcoins can vary wildly. This just seems odd and I don't want to be a part of what seems to be an investment in commodities. I just want to go to games and buy gear. I find it very confusing and don't see why the Kings organization should take pride in being the first pro sport to use it. Maybe somebody knows more but from what I read it seems risky and I don't want any financial risk involved in being a fan.
 
I found the Wikepedia article very confusing. Is Bitcoin anything like using gold as the medium of exchange? We all exchange cash for bitcoins/gold and use it to buy things at the arena. The value of the bitcoins can vary wildly. This just seems odd and I don't want to be a part of what seems to be an investment in commodities. I just want to go to games and buy gear. I find it very confusing and don't see why the Kings organization should take pride in being the first pro sport to use it. Maybe somebody knows more but from what I read it seems risky and I don't want any financial risk involved in being a fan.

Glenn, I understand your confusion. And yes, with any new currency there will be fluctuations, etc. But keep in mind the only thing giving the dollar value right now is a worldwide unspoken agreement that these "dollars" have value. It's just basically a handshake agreement anymore, since we went off the gold standard. But even then gold was assigned value just because we all as humans decided to do so. It is pretty though, so it's got that going for it.

Bitcoins are actually more "real" in value, since they do do represent actual "work". This is because Bitcoins can be "mined" by essentially leasing out your computer power to do computational work. If you have a big powerful computer, it's equivalent to more mining equipment. Instead of mining resources from the earth, you help to mine and process information. That information has value and you are rewarded with Bitcoins. It's not simply that you buy Bitcoins with dollars. You can, of course, but Bitcoins are tied to a real value.

I know it's confusing, but that's just because it's a new concept. Think about how confusing dollars are to people who traded with only goods or a bartyr system. "You mean you want me to give you this perfectly good goat for those pieces of green paper with old dudes on them? You're crazy!"
 
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Glenn, I understand your confusion. And yes, with any new currency there will be fluctuations, etc. But keep in mind the only thing giving the dollar value right now is a worldwide unspoken agreement that these "dollars" have value. It's just basically a handshake agreement anymore, since we went off the gold standard. But even then gold was assigned value just because we all as humans decided to do so. It is pretty though, so it's got that going for it.

Bitcoins are actually more "real" in value, since they do do represent actual "work". This is because Bitcoins can be "mined" by essentially leasing out your computer power to do computational work. If you have a big powerful computer, it's equivalent to more mining equipment. Instead of mining resources from the earth, you help to mine and process information. That information has value and you are rewarded with Bitcoins. It's not simply that you buy Bitcoins with dollars. You can, of course, but Bitcoins are tied to a real value.

I know it's confusing, but that's just because it's a new concept. Think about how confusing dollars are to people who traded with only goods or a bartyr system. "You mean you want me to give you this perfectly good goat for those pieces of green paper with old dudes on them? You're crazy!"

Acccchhhhh!!!!!!! Isn't PayPal adequate?
 
Acccchhhhh!!!!!!! Isn't PayPal adequate?

Good question, but the difference is that paypal is simply a money transfer system, a flow-through service, basically, which is good for easy of payment, cashless transactions, etc. But Bitcoin is an actual alternative currency... one that is not controlled by any central government by the way, and so is less vulneranable to losing it's value through corruption or mismanagement.
 
Acccchhhhh!!!!!!! Isn't PayPal adequate?
Apparently not. I wonder how much those exchanging the bitcoins to cash charge to perform that service. Either way, your not forced to use it and the risk is the Kings ownership and since they are tech savvy they probably know a whole lot more on the risks/viability than us (at least me).
 
Good question, but the difference is that paypal is simply a money transfer system, a flow-through service, basically, which is good for easy of payment, cashless transactions, etc. But Bitcoin is an actual alternative currency... one that is not controlled by any central government by the way, and so is less vulneranable to losing it's value through corruption or mismanagement.

All I want is a way of transferring a predictable amount of money out of my bank and into the Kings bank. If I have discretionary cash to invest, I will invest in something I understand. Seems like one is being melded with the other. I'm just a Kings fan.

Isn't this similar to the Kings ownership of the past investing in a casino? Can't they lose money?
 
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All I want is a way of transferring a predictable amount of money out of my bank and into the Kings bank. If I have discretionary cash to invest, I will invest in something I understand. Seems like one is being melded with the other. I'm just a Kings fan.

Bitcoin is more of a novelty at this point and I think they reason they did it is just to be able to brand themselves the "tech" franchise, more so than to provide a practical service to people like you. Eventually it will be more widely accepted, that's probably ten years off though.

I like USBank. I can do automatic payments with them to anybody, for free, online, at any time. Literally to any email address. It's pretty cool. It seems like all the major banks are basically assimilating the functions of what paypal does.

Bitcoin is not a convenience service for 99% of customers. Just kind of a novelty.
 
Isn't this similar to the Kings ownership of the past investing in a casino? Can't they lose money?

Glenn, calm down. You are traumatized. It's not similar at all to dumping most of the family's net worth into a huge project during a real estate bubble that everybody saw coming, and needing to leverage your entire franchise and take loans from the NBA to stay afloat. Good god man.

The absolute worst that can happen is that they lose some money on merchansise or tickets, but that would require them holding onto the bitcoin currency they recieve until and unless there is a total and permanent collapse in the value of bitcoins. Right now the franchise can convert every bitcoin they take into dollars.
 
Glenn, calm down. You are traumatized. It's not similar at all to dumping most of the family's net worth into a huge project during a real estate bubble that everybody saw coming, and needing to leverage your entire franchise and take loans from the NBA to stay afloat. Good god man.

The absolute worst that can happen is that they lose some money on merchansise or tickets, but that would require them holding onto the bitcoin currency they recieve until and unless there is a total and permanent collapse in the value of bitcoins. Right now the franchise can convert every bitcoin they take into dollars.

I am actually calm. I still don't get it. I have to buy bitcoins and put them into my wallet, right? If the value goes down, I lose money. If it goes up, I make money. I don't see anything you have said that argues against that. You keep saying "they" could lose money but if I need a bitcoin to buy a ticket, if I buy into the whole concept that is, can't I lose money also?

What is the advantage over using dollars, credit cards, etc?
 
I am actually calm. I still don't get it. I have to buy bitcoins and put them into my wallet, right? If the value goes down, I lose money. If it goes up, I make money. I don't see anything you have said that argues against that. You keep saying "they" could lose money but if I need a bitcoin to buy a ticket, if I buy into the whole concept that is, can't I lose money also?

What is the advantage over using dollars, credit cards, etc?

You can totally lose money on Bitcoins. Mostly that's because they're a new currency and unstable. Most experts expect them to stabilize over time. Like I said, there really isn't any advantage for the average fan. It's more of a novelty thing. The advantage is for people who are already familiar and comfortable with using Bitcoins, and who may have businesses that accept Bitcoins themselves. It's a niche audience that acually will be using them. That said, some people are buying Bitcoins like crazy as an actual investment, similar to how George Soros makes money by trading currencies.

You do realize you won't be forced to use bitcoins right?
 
You do realize you won't be forced to use bitcoins right?

I want to reinforce this. Accepting Bitcoins are like the choice to accept checks, American Express, or Discover Card for the Kings - you will always be able to use cash, Visa, and MasterCard. The others tend to be more "optional" and not intended to be a replacement for the more frequently-used payment methods.
 
You can totally lose money on Bitcoins. Mostly that's because they're a new currency and unstable. Most experts expect them to stabilize over time. Like I said, there really isn't any advantage for the average fan. It's more of a novelty thing. The advantage is for people who are already familiar and comfortable with using Bitcoins, and who may have businesses that accept Bitcoins themselves. It's a niche audience that acually will be using them. That said, some people are buying Bitcoins like crazy as an actual investment, similar to how George Soros makes money by trading currencies.

You do realize you won't be forced to use bitcoins right?

You DID read my note didn't you.
 
I am actually calm. I still don't get it. I have to buy bitcoins and put them into my wallet, right? If the value goes down, I lose money. If it goes up, I make money. I don't see anything you have said that argues against that. You keep saying "they" could lose money but if I need a bitcoin to buy a ticket, if I buy into the whole concept that is, can't I lose money also?

Well, bitcoins are virtual (electronic) currency, so you don't actually physically put them in your wallet. It's essentially a computer file. Transferring it from one person to another is a bit more complicated than just copying the file, but I don't know the details.

You're right that bitcoin value is volatile right now (and for all we know, might always be). I see bitcoins as a very speculative currency right now, almost like playing the stock market. If you buy into the concept of bitcoins and start using them, then, yes, you're exposing yourself to risk/reward.

If, for some reason, you bought bitcoins in order to buy a Kings ticket immediately (for the novelty), then you'd probably be out whatever the transaction fee might be, but it's not like bitcoin value fluctuates wildly over minutes/hours, so the ticket price would not really be different than the cash price. And as you seem to recognize, you can still buy in cash, so if bitcoins seem too risky for you then I'm sure you'll steer clear and go the cash route.

What is the advantage over using dollars, credit cards, etc?

I suppose there are a few things. It's an electronic currency, which is neat. Supporters like to point out that bitcoins are not regulated by the government, so if you've got a Libertarian streak you might be drawn towards the concept. Detractors like to point out that much (non-speculative) bitcoin activity appears to be used on illegal transactions (arms, drugs, etc.), because in principle the government can't track bitcoins.

From my point of view, there are probably about four reasons to go bitcoin right now:
1) You want to be hip and ahead of the curve
2) You want to buy illegal stuff
3) You believe bitcoin will become a major (or the major) currency in the future, and you want to get in now so you're rich later
4) You believe current currency (e.g. U.S. Dollars) will collapse relatively soon, and that bitcoin won't.

If you don't fall into one of those categories, then just hold off and use cash until such time (if ever) that it makes more day-to-day sense to use bitcoin. We're still not at the stage where electronic cash (debit cards, etc.) has phased out paper cash, but it will likely come. At that point you'll have to stop carrying paper cash. And if ever bitcoin phases out U.S. Dollars, then you'll have to convert over. Until then, carry on! :)
 
My main purpose of bringing this up is because of the awe most of us have for Vivek. We figure whatever he does, especially in the techy area, he must know what he is doing. I anticipated that many people might just jump on the bitcoin bandwagon because Vivek has given it his stamp of approval whether deliberately or not.

I hope now people will give more careful thought about this subject and its connection to the Kings and think carefully about how it might effect them.



Edit: "Wallet" is a Bitcoin term and I did not use it as a reference to what some of us carry in our pockets..
 
I'll admit, this seems a bit gimmicky to me. They're trying to market "NBA 3.0" but there doesn't seem to be much reason beyond that for this, in my mind.
 
I'll admit, this seems a bit gimmicky to me. They're trying to market "NBA 3.0" but there doesn't seem to be much reason beyond that for this, in my mind.

I think it's simply an indication they are ready, willing and able to embrace the latest technologies.

Vivek has said that the new arena will be "cash free and ticket free"... While that's a great goal, I don't see them refusing to accept cold hard cash for purchases.

My thought is we have to keep in mind that Vivek is a visionary who views the technology we going to have just as much as what we currently have. The Bitcoin idea doesn't really matter much to me one way or the other but if it attracts even one new Kings fan who thinks Bitcoin is all that and a bag of chips, no harm done.
 
I think it's simply an indication they are ready, willing and able to embrace the latest technologies.

Vivek has said that the new arena will be "cash free and ticket free"... While that's a great goal, I don't see them refusing to accept cold hard cash for purchases.

My thought is we have to keep in mind that Vivek is a visionary who views the technology we going to have just as much as what we currently have. The Bitcoin idea doesn't really matter much to me one way or the other but if it attracts even one new Kings fan who thinks Bitcoin is all that and a bag of chips, no harm done.

Have you read the links to Bitcoin that I found? Caveat emptor. Anyway, we will see cool stuff at the arena and I look forward to that. I picture each seat or maybe only the upscale seats having a link to place orders, look at up-to-the-minute data, watch another game, or whatever. Maybe something like airplanes that have iPad like things in the seat ahead of you. Anyway, nothing I say may be practical or actually occur but Vivek and his fellow techy owners are going to let their imagination go, that's for sure.

We deserve it!
 
I don't really have much use for Bitcoin but I think this is pretty cool, just like the Google Glass thing (I find GG to be annoying at its best and terrible at its worst). They are building a brand, as cutting edge, tech savvy, etc, I think this is a pretty big deal given Sacramento's public image.
 
You can get a couple "oldschool" (by old school I mean 2010-2011) mining boxes that basically run on their own for a couple hundred bucks. They make about $15-$20 a day on their own. They drain about $75 of energy a month for a couple of them. There are newer boxes that take a LOT less energy which have better computational power that can supposedly make you about $50-60 a day ($50-60 worth of bitcoins is about .06 bitcoins) but the boxes cost $2500. Supposedly they use a lot less energy too. I was thinking about buying a couple boxes and Just hooking them up and leaving them.
 
You can get a couple "oldschool" (by old school I mean 2010-2011) mining boxes that basically run on their own for a couple hundred bucks. They make about $15-$20 a day on their own. They drain about $75 of energy a month for a couple of them. There are newer boxes that take a LOT less energy which have better computational power that can supposedly make you about $50-60 a day ($50-60 worth of bitcoins is about .06 bitcoins) but the boxes cost $2500. Supposedly they use a lot less energy too. I was thinking about buying a couple boxes and Just hooking them up and leaving them.

I'm assuming you mean Alt currencies. I tried it, and with around 2200Mhash/sec should have been generating a lot more than I was receiving. Seems like mining pools always ripped me off somehow.
 
I had pulled those numbers off a site. I have never even tried to get bitcoins. I had wanted to try for a long time though.

I was going to go with a USB hub and about 5 of the USB card miners to just try it out but it seems that people are pretty much spending as much as much $$ electricity as they are getting back in bitcoin (barely breaking even) so I am not even sure if it's worth it. The numbers from the last post were 2011 I had thought it was more recent.
 
I had pulled those numbers off a site. I have never even tried to get bitcoins. I had wanted to try for a long time though.

I was going to go with a USB hub and about 5 of the USB card miners to just try it out but it seems that people are pretty much spending as much as much $$ electricity as they are getting back in bitcoin (barely breaking even) so I am not even sure if it's worth it. The numbers from the last post were 2011 I had thought it was more recent.

Bit coin isn't worth it, better mine something else like world coin and trade it to bit coin
 
The bitcoin thing seems a bit gimmicky particularly in light of the recent bitcoin exchange meltdown. However the drones seem pretty cool!
 
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