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DaKings - I think your problem is you know very little about Kings basketball past and present. Therefor you do not know that Bibby is not a PG. He has never played like a PG and probably never will --look at his stats, ask the veteran members on the board who have actually followed Kings Basketball for a while, go back as long as he has been in Sac and watch games from when he played with Christie, etc. It couldnt be more clear after watching years of Kings basketball that Christie was the PG and Bibby was not. Sorry for not understanding your main point. I couldnt seem to find it or understand it. If it is something other than you not liking his attitude based on his physical expressions or lack there of then please tell me.
Also, can you please answer Sanity's questions. I need a good laugh.
Also, can you please answer Sanity's questions. I need a good laugh.
I can play (not very good) but that doesnt make you any more knowledgable about the game or what we are even talking about. You've said that a couple times and there is no need for it. Also... enough with the movie quotes or whatever they are... very anoying. I'm not here to argue for no reason or defend Bibby because im a "Bibby Lover" or whatever you called me; I'm just here to help you understand that Bibby is a SG that happens to play the PG.
P
Considering the Kings are running less and less of a Princeton Offense, I think the question is moot.
But, yes, Steve Nash would be a good fit anywhere he goes - but he's maximizing his skills by being a penetrating PG. But, if you think he wouldn't have success running off screens and streaking to the basket --- watch a few Suns games.
But, yes, Steve Nash would be a good fit anywhere he goes - but he's maximizing his skills by being a penetrating PG. But, if you think he wouldn't have success running off screens and streaking to the basket --- watch a few Suns games.
D
Actually, I have been following the Kings as a fan since 1999 well before Bibby came on board. I watched them when Jwill played as a Great exciting PG but a reckless one. One thing bibby brought to the team was stability, but the last two years he has contributed very little. When web left last year what did Bibby say. This is my team I am the leader of it. Pffhhh A good laugh. I am not saying that bibby is the sole reason for Kings being 10-16 but if you are going to be arrogant enough to say "I am the leader of this team" then do something to back it up.
For all you knuckle heads that drive this argument about PG-SG I dont care. Do not post about this anymore to me, if you do I will assume you cant read. I didn't talk abou this, I was mostly talking about Bibbys inabilities to carry the team as a leader. I also talked about his attitude because he has a bad one. Answer the question I posted earlier in this post. has he ever taken blame for losing a game? He has never taken responsibilities, and that my friends is a traits of a leader.
For all you knuckle heads that drive this argument about PG-SG I dont care. Do not post about this anymore to me, if you do I will assume you cant read. I didn't talk abou this, I was mostly talking about Bibbys inabilities to carry the team as a leader. I also talked about his attitude because he has a bad one. Answer the question I posted earlier in this post. has he ever taken blame for losing a game? He has never taken responsibilities, and that my friends is a traits of a leader.
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In case you haven't noticed - almost the entire starting lineup has changed.
If Bibby hasn't been asked to change his style, then I think the coach is more of an idiot than I previously assumed. Reef is NOT Chris Webber and is not particularly effective in the high post. Miller is not Vlade Divac in any sense of the word. Bonzi is DEFINITELY not Doug Christie nor can he begin to play that PG role the Christie did.
We are running less and less of the Princeton offense and more and more of a traditional offense. Bibby better learn how to play PG ... and quick ... if we are going to have success ... because it is easier to trade a ball-hoggity PG who thinks he's a SG than Bonzi and Shareef for guys that can mold to Bibby.
SGs that are stuck playing PG tend to fail in this league and cause issues, unless they are EXTREMELY talented. Bibby is NOT that talented. He's a GREAT to PHENOMINAL shooter, but otherwise he's mediocre at best. He better learn to pass effectively if we want to have any modicrum of success.
If Bibby hasn't been asked to change his style, then I think the coach is more of an idiot than I previously assumed. Reef is NOT Chris Webber and is not particularly effective in the high post. Miller is not Vlade Divac in any sense of the word. Bonzi is DEFINITELY not Doug Christie nor can he begin to play that PG role the Christie did.
We are running less and less of the Princeton offense and more and more of a traditional offense. Bibby better learn how to play PG ... and quick ... if we are going to have success ... because it is easier to trade a ball-hoggity PG who thinks he's a SG than Bonzi and Shareef for guys that can mold to Bibby.
SGs that are stuck playing PG tend to fail in this league and cause issues, unless they are EXTREMELY talented. Bibby is NOT that talented. He's a GREAT to PHENOMINAL shooter, but otherwise he's mediocre at best. He better learn to pass effectively if we want to have any modicrum of success.
Thank you for repeating it a more clearly. Honestly, did he have a choice at becoming the team leader? Peja? no. Brad? no. Bibby was right in being the team leader. Who else wouldve done it and carried the team as you are desiring? I dont know if he has taken the blame for losing a game but he shouldnt; nobody should. Its a team game. Just because he doesnt say it to the cameras doesnt mean he isnt taking responsibility or showing emotion. You're mad that he isnt showing emotion on the court after a bad pass or w/e but maybe he deals with all that crap after the game.
I agree. The team is changing, the style is changing, Bibby is not. Thats why everyone is mad. he is not playing the PG position like many think he should with the new lineup and the dissapearance of the princeton offense. obviously he better start playing the PG better or we will continue to struggle. my argument is that thats not natural for him and people are jumping all over him because he isnt playing like an All Star PG. Hes not. Will he be? Doubtful but hopefully he will become a lot better at the PG. Only time will tell... give him some space and time.
I'm getting really tired of having to remind people about the basic principles of this board. The name calling among members STOPS now. This board has existed for a long time with a principle of keeping posts about the topic at hand and not turning threads into some kind of macho pissing contest among members. It's not going to change.
I'm making this a general comment. If the shoe fits, please wear it.
Thank you.
I'm making this a general comment. If the shoe fits, please wear it.
Thank you.
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Bibby is certainly NOT a scrub or a plug. I don't want anyone to assume that is my ascertation.
What my problem is - and has been - is that when Bibby starts to roll, or tries to get going, he excludes the rest of the team.
Brad Miller is NOT that great of a passer, much to the chagrin of the media. He's can see the floor and puts the ball where it needs to be ... but he isn't creating shots for the rest of the team. He can't drive and kick. He can't get other guys open looks. He can stand there, feet firmly planted and wait for a cutter.
So - who is going to make the passes?
Reef? He tries to pass from the post (and has had success with it), but we use him there infrequently and with Peja out the lane is going to be clogged. Besides, Reef is a PF ... and not as elegant with the ball as Chris Webber.
Neither of the two backups for Bonzi and Peja ...
So that leaves our "PG".
He needs to get guys involved. I think right now he SHOULD be looking for his shot occationally. But I don't want it to be at the exclusion of others. He runs around, but isn't looking to pass ... but rather shoot. If he could do the same thing and keep his head up and find an open man we'd be far better!
Bibby Shooting + Well Covered < Bibby Passing + Open Dunk
What my problem is - and has been - is that when Bibby starts to roll, or tries to get going, he excludes the rest of the team.
Brad Miller is NOT that great of a passer, much to the chagrin of the media. He's can see the floor and puts the ball where it needs to be ... but he isn't creating shots for the rest of the team. He can't drive and kick. He can't get other guys open looks. He can stand there, feet firmly planted and wait for a cutter.
So - who is going to make the passes?
Reef? He tries to pass from the post (and has had success with it), but we use him there infrequently and with Peja out the lane is going to be clogged. Besides, Reef is a PF ... and not as elegant with the ball as Chris Webber.
Neither of the two backups for Bonzi and Peja ...
So that leaves our "PG".
He needs to get guys involved. I think right now he SHOULD be looking for his shot occationally. But I don't want it to be at the exclusion of others. He runs around, but isn't looking to pass ... but rather shoot. If he could do the same thing and keep his head up and find an open man we'd be far better!
Bibby Shooting + Well Covered < Bibby Passing + Open Dunk
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Well, then I agree with your argument and I think I was the first one in this thread to say Bibby is more like a SG. (not tooting my horn, but showing that I agree with you from the beginning)
I'm not upset with him for not being an "all star" PG. I'm not. I'm upset with him because he isn't being as good as most NBDL PGs. He's being a pretty good SG, but a sub-par PG.
I'm not upset with him for not being an "all star" PG. I'm not. I'm upset with him because he isn't being as good as most NBDL PGs. He's being a pretty good SG, but a sub-par PG.
P
As you've said to others in this whole thread - please back this up.
Please explain to me how a very good to great long distance shooter (career 40% 3-pt) that has wheels and is extremely effective coming off screens and picks and shooting on the move would NOT fit into the Princeton?
Steve Nash is a better shooter than Mike Bibby. He's a smarter player than Mike Bibby. He's more athletic and quicker than Mike Bibby.
How would he be rendered ineffective? Please explain this.
Is Nash better in a traditional set where he can create for himself and his teammates? Probably. Would he suffer in a Princeton set? No, not a chance.
Please explain to me how a very good to great long distance shooter (career 40% 3-pt) that has wheels and is extremely effective coming off screens and picks and shooting on the move would NOT fit into the Princeton?
Steve Nash is a better shooter than Mike Bibby. He's a smarter player than Mike Bibby. He's more athletic and quicker than Mike Bibby.
How would he be rendered ineffective? Please explain this.
Is Nash better in a traditional set where he can create for himself and his teammates? Probably. Would he suffer in a Princeton set? No, not a chance.
eh...he may or may not fit in the "according to hoyle" princeton offense...but i don't think that's the point. steve nash makes his teammates better. he's quick as all hell, he's a scorer, he's a passer, he does it all. the reason steve nash is a reigning most valuable player is because he has the potential to be the most valuable player on any team. the wonderful thing about steve nash is he's so goddam versatile. i think he'd be effective if you stuck him in any offense. he's got a very high basketball IQ, he sees the floor extremely well, and he's an above average shooter to boot. you give him the ball, and he'll work some magic with it. i think he'd do just fine in the princeton offense. i don't even think there'd be that much of an adjustment period, to be honest. he'd be runnin-and-gunnin less, which is a bummer, but he's very effective in the half court as well.
Trust me, Im frustrated just as much as the rest of you. He isnt playing well and is playing as a sub-par, non-NBA PG. He only started to experience playing as a real PG after Chris left. He hasnt had much time to change his game and mindset. Its going to take time and it may or may not work out. But for now we are stuck with what we have so complaining about his attitude, passing, too much shooting is stupid. This is a team and no one player is at fault. He, along with every other player on the team is having a problem or two. I can only image how frustrated he is.
BibityBobtyBoom...
NO offense is going to work if the players don't trust each other. It's not the name of the offense that matters, it's not even the names on the backs of the jerseys. It's a fundamental truth - if you're going to be on a team with someone, you have to trust them and they have to trust you.
I'm not talking about letting someone borrow your car or something.
"Trust," when used by Pete Carril means a core belief in your teammates that they will do the right thing at the right time. It means they will put the TEAM first.
We simply have too many players right now who haven't learned to trust one another. Until and unless they do, we are going to have major breakdowns on the court regardless of who we're playing or what "name" offense we're trying to employ.
NO offense is going to work if the players don't trust each other. It's not the name of the offense that matters, it's not even the names on the backs of the jerseys. It's a fundamental truth - if you're going to be on a team with someone, you have to trust them and they have to trust you.
I'm not talking about letting someone borrow your car or something.
"Trust," when used by Pete Carril means a core belief in your teammates that they will do the right thing at the right time. It means they will put the TEAM first.
We simply have too many players right now who haven't learned to trust one another. Until and unless they do, we are going to have major breakdowns on the court regardless of who we're playing or what "name" offense we're trying to employ.
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