Bee: Kings have struggle for power at forward

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http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13669771p-14512470c.html

Kings have struggle for power at forward

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a newcomer, puts pressure on returning Kenny Thomas.


By Joe Davidson

Kenny Thomas avoided it until there was nowhere else to go. During Monday's media day, Kings players were shuttled from one station to the next for photo shoots, in-house cheers, promotional plugs, radio reads - then, finally, talking to reporters.


Within a minute, Thomas knew what was coming, saying, "Here's the question. Come out and say it."

OK, are you the Kings' starting power forward?

"I'm starting. ... Since no one has told me (otherwise), I'm starting," said the Kings' returning starting forward, who isn't listed as the 2005-06 starting forward in NBA preseason publications and countless other media outlets across the country.

For starters, there's the Shareef factor, as in free-agent signee Shareef Abdur-Rahim, who has put up productive numbers for Vancouver, Atlanta and Portland over nine seasons.

The most intriguing battle this training camp is who emerges at power forward to play with holdovers Brad Miller, Peja Stojakovic and Mike Bibby, and, presumably, newcomer Bonzi Wells. Abdur-Rahim expects to start - because he has started for about as long as he can remember, or in 629 of 672 NBA games.

But the same mostly rings true for Thomas. He has started in 293 of 431 NBA games and 243 of 285 since 2001-02.

Both also have come off the bench in their careers. Both prefer to start, however, with Abdur-Rahim saying, simply, that he just wants to win some games.

Both have plenty to offer. Thomas is two inches shorter than the 6-foot-9 Abdur-Rahim, but Thomas is quicker to the basket and in transition. Abdur-Rahim is a better low-post scorer and, statistically, a better career scorer and rebounder (with averages of 19.8 points and 8.1 rebounds to 10.9 and 7.4, respectively).

Thomas has started 17 of 17 career playoff games, but Abdur-Rahim has watched the postseason only from the couch with a clicker in his hand.

"Yeah, it matters," Thomas said about starting. "I've been a starter for six years. I can't control who's going to start, who's coming off the bench. I can only control how hard I play. If the fans and the media see what I'm doing, hopefully (the media) will help me out. ... Is it important to me? Yeah, it is. It really is."

Thomas then said, "Shut up, Kenny," and laughed at having to warn himself to clam up. He wanted to avoid appearing to stir up a pot of controversy in what has been an otherwise two days of feel-good charm.


Of course, the man who decides who starts is coach Rick Adelman, who said he isn't sure who will be on the floor with the core of Bibby, Stojakovic and Miller.

"I saw where Shareef's starting, which is good everybody knows that, because I haven't said that," Adelman said. "I haven't talked to Kenny. We'll see what happens. Why should I name somebody when we've got a guy coming back who did a pretty good job for us?

"I've got some major decisions to make, because there's probably more players who can play than there's minutes for. Let them go out and get on the floor - let's fool around with it during the preseason.


"Someone may not start, but maybe they're better coming off the bench. I have nothing locked in. I would be shocked if Brad, Peja and Mike didn't start. But the other guys - let's see how they do."

Thomas said the Kings improved over the summer, becoming more athletic and longer. And he assures that he didn't enter camp bitter, though he was more excited talking about his son getting ready for kindergarten than breaking down player rotations.

Still, the 250-pound veteran from the University of New Mexico is acutely aware the job he had last season might not be his come opening night Nov. 1. He did his best to keep it, averaging14.5 points,a career high, and 8.7 rebounds in 26 games for the Kings, 15 of them as a starter, after his trade from Philadelphia.

And he won't yield easily. Thomas said he is in the best shape of his life after a summer of workouts, pool sessions and pickup games with NBA players at the San Antonio Spurs' practice facility. He said he's stronger and fitter. He has worked on his outside shot and his ballhandling.

"I'm trying to average a double double like I did in Philadelphia (in 2003-04)," Thomas said.


And is competition good?

"That's part of life," Thomas said. "Everyone wants a starting job."
 
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I don't understand why there is any question who should be starting.

If Kenny starts...We are just like last year in the playoffs, with Bonzi Wells. A little improvement but....Shareef is the key.
 
Well if Kenny doesn't start, which he most likely won't, it looks like he will be a bit bitter. He put it out there that it is really important to him. If he starts to mess with the chemistry by creating controversy about not being a starter trade him. Package him in with the Peja deal that will happen before the trade deadline if Peja doesn't prove to be a 100 millioin dollar man. Which he isn't by the way.
 
DocHolliday said:
Well if Kenny doesn't start, which he most likely won't, it looks like he will be a bit bitter. He put it out there that it is really important to him. If he starts to mess with the chemistry by creating controversy about not being a starter trade him. Package him in with the Peja deal that will happen before the trade deadline if Peja doesn't prove to be a 100 millioin dollar man. Which he isn't by the way.

Yeah, I'm worried about Kenny's attitude if he doesn't start. He does not want to come off the bench! I would rather see him saying "whatever is best for the team", but I guess you don't get to the NBA by not having an ego. Hopefully things will go smoothly.
 
There is no way in the world that Reef won't start over Kenny. Kenny is trying to make his argument to start through the media only because the official word hasn't come down yet as to who will start. Then again, the official word hasn't come down as to whether Brad, Mike or Peja will start either, but come on!!! If Kenny can embrace his role coming off the bench he will be a great asset to the team. However, he has shown a propensity to cry a bit when he doesn't start or when his minutes are less than what he thinks they should be. Someone needs to remind him that he's 6'7" and he can't D-up on the great majority of PF's in the league. I like Kenny and I like what he brings to the table, but when you have a guy with Reef's skills it's just crazy to think that he won't be starting.
 
love_them_kings said:
Yeah, I'm worried about Kenny's attitude if he doesn't start. He does not want to come off the bench! I would rather see him saying "whatever is best for the team", but I guess you don't get to the NBA by not having an ego. Hopefully things will go smoothly.
I would not want a guy who didn’t want to start on my team. I prefer to have guys say what the mean and mean what they say. The good old “whatever’s best for the team” adage is only valuable if ones actions are true to it. Competition is a great thing, throw the ball in the air and let their play do the talking. At the very least we will have two guys that push each other and improve the overall play of the Kings. Let the coach’s and GM’s manager the egos, as long as the players give the effort I have no problems with honesty…
 
Well in the end is allways all about play few coaches would bench a more productive palyer to apease another, thats just logic and good coaching. I am sure that by any objective standard KT can look at his and SAR's production adn say good luck, I have your back... blah blah blah. BUT what also goes with this (heads up Kevin and Cisco) superior play, hard work in practice move guys up... that too is the nature of the game every night a good coach could/should be able to ask players "yeah but what have you done for me LATELY." SAR has many good reasons to sharpen his game to the best it has ever been, his back up wnats his job and his contract for next season depend on high nubers and the paly off run. Like wise our log jam at the 2 will sort it's self out based on young tallent working very hard to get/keep a spot in the rotation and a legit shot for a starting gig if/when the opertunity arises. I suppose we could also say the same thing about the hopefull 7 footers, minus the observations on tallent.
 
DocHolliday said:
Well if Kenny doesn't start, which he most likely won't, it looks like he will be a bit bitter. He put it out there that it is really important to him. If he starts to mess with the chemistry by creating controversy about not being a starter trade him. Package him in with the Peja deal that will happen before the trade deadline if Peja doesn't prove to be a 100 millioin dollar man. Which he isn't by the way.



i agree. let's cut the crap. kenny has a problem, package him with peja and send em on the 1st thing smokin. who does he think he is? bibby?
 
dunkondem said:
I would not want a guy who didn’t want to start on my team. I prefer to have guys say what the mean and mean what they say. The good old “whatever’s best for the team” adage is only valuable if ones actions are true to it. Competition is a great thing, throw the ball in the air and let their play do the talking. At the very least we will have two guys that push each other and improve the overall play of the Kings. Let the coach’s and GM’s manager the egos, as long as the players give the effort I have no problems with honesty…



wanting to start is not the same thing as deserving to start. kenny is too undersized. i like the competiveness, but c'mon
 
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I know he probably doesn't want to hear it but Kenny really has the potential to be a great 6th man. He can score and rebound in bunches and can come off the bench and help the team at both the 4 and the 3.
 
I think once Kenny starts to produce instantly off the bench, and once he sees his name in the media all the time suggesting him for 6th Man of the Year...he'll like his new role alot better.
 
Shut up Kenny

"If the fans and the media see what I'm doing, hopefully (the media) will help me out. ..."


Kenny starts off the preseason by stirring the rabble to harrass Adelman if Kenny doesn't start. That guy is a fool. I might bench the guy for sheer stupidity.

Reef will definitely start.




 
Adelman is really confusing me here. When a player is in a contract year, you expect him to step up and have a big season. Adelman is in a contract year and he's acting like he hasn't even thought about who the starting pf should be? I hope he's just pretending and being nice because it's so early in camp. It's obvious Shareef is better. Saying that there could/will be a competition and that you haven't decided yet can't do anything positive in this situation.
 
Kev.in said:
Adelman is really confusing me here. When a player is in a contract year, you expect him to step up and have a big season. Adelman is in a contract year and he's acting like he hasn't even thought about who the starting pf should be? I hope he's just pretending and being nice because it's so early in camp. It's obvious Shareef is better. Saying that there could/will be a competition and that you haven't decided yet can't do anything positive in this situation.

the thing is, kev, he wants to see how these guys perform and not go in there with the kind of bias of "oh, that guy should get it, but maybe hes not playing as well as the other guy". He wants to base it on how the essentially new guys (as far as camp goes) do in camp and how they grasp the offense/defense, even if KT has had more exp with our system.

Why make a decision too early?
 
I just can't get out of my head how well he did when we first got him and he was coming off the bench. He was a mad man off the bench then we started him and it was downhill from there. If RA likes Kenny that much i look to see some minutes at the SF spot for him from time to time. Corlis is going to be the odd man out.
 
I like the idea that all of our starters have somebody nipping at their heels. The last few years the players on this team became TOO adjusted to their roles. This should be interesting!!!

And to be honest Kenny starting over Reef doesn't seem to bother me that much. What ever helps us reach the promise land! Although I fully expect Shareef to be the Kings PF for quite awhile.
 
Entity said:
I just can't get out of my head how well he did when we first got him and he was coming off the bench. He was a mad man off the bench then we started him and it was downhill from there. If RA likes Kenny that much i look to see some minutes at the SF spot for him from time to time. Corlis is going to be the odd man out.

Hmm. I remember it a little differently. Songaila was the starter and it was clear, to me at least, that in no situation whatsoever should Darius Songaila be starting over Kenny Thomas.
 
BobbyJ_for3! said:
the thing is, kev, he wants to see how these guys perform and not go in there with the kind of bias of "oh, that guy should get it, but maybe hes not playing as well as the other guy". He wants to base it on how the essentially new guys (as far as camp goes) do in camp and how they grasp the offense/defense, even if KT has had more exp with our system.

Why make a decision too early?

There shouldn't even be a decision to make at all! Petrie made the decision when he signed Abdur-Rahim this summer.
 
wonder if this will cause chemistry problems.. wonder whether it will fire them both up to get this starting position...
 
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Wow, I doubt it will turn into a fist fight between the two or maybe not. ;)

Training camp will be interesting!!!
 
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As an aside, George Lynch wants out of New Orleans and to be traded to a contender. Now:

1) George Lynch is a SF, so what does that have to do with this situation? Well:

2) George could be a nice backup SF for us, despite the age, as he brings defense, hustle and boardwork. Not normally big on old guys, but he would be a nice counterpunch that Rick would respect as a vet, and best of all, has an ending contract. With him asking to go to a contender, we are probably a possibility.

3) But his ending contract is worth about $3.2 mil, and we have nobody in that salary range for a one for one trade.

4) HOWEVER, New Orleans also has another old man of potential use to us -- PJ Brown. 6'11" PF/C. Tough as nails. Plays major defense. Smart team player, decent skills, rock solid and knows all about playoff basketball. And PJ has a salary of about $8mil.

5) So to bring that back around to relevant -- if there is any issue with KT, why not offer New Orleans a KT/Corliss package for Lynch and Brown? Salaries match (we shed $12.1, get back $11.2). We move out of tweener land with a true defensive big man, and Brown and Skinner together on the frontline, with maybe Sampson as a 5th, bring significant size, length, rebounding, and defense behind the two softer starters. Meanwhile Lynch is a solid, dependable, ultra-hard working veteran roleplayer to back up Peja. And if Peja goes down, maybe you alleviate the logjam at OG by sliding Cisco in ahead of Lynch as the starter at SF, or moving Bonzi up and giving Kevin the start at OG. In any case, proven veteran defenders at every backup position except OG, where our best defending starter is and the kids look to have enthusiasm if nothing else. The guys we get are old, but they've got good length and their contracts are short as we escape the forever KT deal and free up a little extra money for the Peja-stakes next offseason. I'm sure they would like to play for a winner too, and unlike certain players would accept bench roles in order to get one more chance at the championship apple. From the Hornets' perspective they have no real use for players of that age (35) who will be retired long before the rest of the team gets good, and maybe a solid low-level starter still in his prime like KT can be of some help there into the future. Meanwhile they have rid themselves of a malcontent, and Corliss is a proven vet and good lockerroom guy to help with any loss of leadership. Longshot of course, but I'd like our bench structure, not to mention salary structure, a lot better if it happened.
 
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Please let it happen, this would be a great deal for us. The only possible snag I see is Petrie and Adelman being concerned about losing too much "skill" in Corliss and Kenny for the skill we'd get in return, they do seem to get off on it. We've got skill in spades, what we need are the things these two bring to the table. We've got plenty of depth to shore up if one or both of 'em go down. I see no reason not to do this trade immediately, even if KT gets his head on straight.
 
Bricklayer said:
As an aside, George Lynch wants out of New Orleans and to be traded to a contender. Now:

1) George Lynch is a SF, so what does that have to do with this situation? Well:

2) George could be a nice backup SF for us, despite the age, as he brings defense, hustle and boardwork. Not normally big on old guys, but he would be a nice counterpunch that Rick would respect as a vet, and best of all, has an ending contract. With him asking to go to a contender, we are probably a possibility.

3) But his ending contract is worth about $3.2 mil, and we have nobody in that salary range for a one for one trade.

4) HOWEVER, New Orleans also has another old man of potential use to us -- PJ Brown. 6'11" PF/C. Tough as nails. Plays major defense. Smart team player, decent skills, rock solid and knows all about playoff basketball. And PJ has a salary of about $8mil.

5) So to bring that back around to relevant -- if there is any issue with KT, why not offer New Orleans a KT/Corliss package for Lynch and Brown? Salaries match (we shed $12.1, get back $11.2). We move out of tweener land with a true defensive big man, and Brown and Skinner together on the frontline, with maybe Sampson as a 5th, bring significant size, length, rebounding, and defense behind the two softer starters. Meanwhile Lynch is a solid, dependable, ultra-hard working veteran roleplayer to back up Peja. And if Peja goes down, maybe you alleviate the logjam at OG by sliding Cisco in ahead of Lynch as the starter at SF, or moving Bonzi up and giving Kevin the start at OG. In any case, proven veteran defenders at every backup position except OG, where our best defending starter is and the kids look to have enthusiasm if nothing else. The guys we get are old, but they've got good length and their contracts are short as we escape the forever KT deal and free up a little extra money for the Peja-stakes next offseason. I'm sure they would like to play for a winner too, and unlike certain players would accept bench roles in order to get one more chance at the championship apple. From the Hornets' perspective they have no real use for players of that age (35) who will be retired long before the rest of the team gets good, and maybe a solid low-level starter still in his prime like KT can be of some help there into the future. Meanwhile they have rid themselves of a malcontent, and Corliss is a proven vet and good lockerroom guy to help with any loss of leadership. Longshot of course, but I'd like our bench structure, not to mention salary structure, a lot better if it happened.

I didn't read it all, as I'm in a bit of a rush, but I agree on getting Lynch and PJ Brown, or one of them, Brick. I'd welcome it. Both can bring good things that we can use. Age doesn't seem to be a factor for either.

"Hornets coach Byron Scott said it was his decision to ban backup forward George Lynch from training camp. During Monday's Media Day, Lynch made a request to be traded because he wants to play for a contending team. Lynch is in the final year of his contract with the Hornets." New Orleans Times-Picayune

"I don't want those type of distractions in our locker room,'' Scott said after Wednesday's practice at Southern Nazarene University. "George has made it clear that he wants to be traded, and we made it clear that we want to trade him. So that's not like something new. We want to try and get rid of him, try to make him happy. As far as I'm concerned, if a player doesn't want to be here, I don't want him here.'' New Orleans Times-Picayune

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tpsports/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tpsports/archives/2005_10_05.html#085279
 
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I like the trade the contract wise, about the players - never seen them playing before. IF Kenny is not willing to accept his role as a backup, then why not. He might request to be traded as Lynch.
 
That's definitely one of the more intriguing scenarios I've seen discussed.

I like Big Nasty; always have. But I think trading him with KT for the Lynch/Brown combination would be a definite plus. The ending salary wouldn't hurt, either.
 
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