Jerryaki
Starter
ding ding ding, red flag should be up.
Bee: Brown will not initiate contact
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
ding ding ding, red flag should be up.
kupman
Starter
So if we start winning games next year, should our new coach (whoever that might be) be fired mid-season? Maybe we could re-hire Muss at that point.
Arena Skeptic
Bench
Now, you see, I could not disagree with you more. He has a very long history of alienating players -- star players. I just cannot imagine him in the same room as Artest OR Bibby.
I'll go so far as to say that I think Brown is lobbying ANY team for a job, and the Kings are the most obvious team to lobby right now. It could have been any team; Kings seem to have the "last job standing," so Larry has decided to lobby the public to get an interview.
Detroit didn't win that title because of Larry Brown; they won it in SPITE of having Larry Brown.
BawLa
Starter
The worst thing that can happen IMO, is to just wait for Kenny Thomas's, Brad Miller's and SAR's contracts to be up. We need to find a way to raise their trade value so we can trade them for youth and really get our rebuild started. Because with those three guys in there, you aren't leaving much room for rebuilding your frontcourt.
Say we draft a big this year. Well then all you have on the rebuild track in terms of our frontcourt is Justin Williams and the draftee. And considering that all of the big guys with real potential are going to go before the #10, then we just won't have that much frontcourt talent developing. Then you are essentially stuck with that crew for the next three years until you can open some roster spots to bring in more talent. If that isn't putting all your eggs in one basket then I don't know what is.
I think the best way to get the rebuild going is to bring in Larry Brown short term. Let him get Brad, Kenny and Shareef playing good basketball, so that we can trade them for rebuild pieces. Then fire his *** and have the assistant or whatever coach you people want to fill in.
A full rebuild, to get us to back on the upswing in the playoffs, is going to take 3-4 years and at least one superstar. So we are in this for the long-haul. First things first: get rid of the undertalented, overinflated contracts that are holding a full rebuild back.
Say we draft a big this year. Well then all you have on the rebuild track in terms of our frontcourt is Justin Williams and the draftee. And considering that all of the big guys with real potential are going to go before the #10, then we just won't have that much frontcourt talent developing. Then you are essentially stuck with that crew for the next three years until you can open some roster spots to bring in more talent. If that isn't putting all your eggs in one basket then I don't know what is.
I think the best way to get the rebuild going is to bring in Larry Brown short term. Let him get Brad, Kenny and Shareef playing good basketball, so that we can trade them for rebuild pieces. Then fire his *** and have the assistant or whatever coach you people want to fill in.
A full rebuild, to get us to back on the upswing in the playoffs, is going to take 3-4 years and at least one superstar. So we are in this for the long-haul. First things first: get rid of the undertalented, overinflated contracts that are holding a full rebuild back.
Boy, that's a leap. How on earth can you assume that Brown will be able to perform that herculean task? Special diet? Magic dust?
Come on, BawLa, you and I disagree a lot of times but I can usually at least see where you're coming from. You've made an assumption this time, however, that I simply do not feel can be substantiated in any way, shape or form.
And before you say LB got KT to play adequately in Philadelphia, that was then. This is now. There's no reason to really assume LB could turn back the clock.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
So all the Maloofs have to do is put out the offer at $2 mill a year. If he bites, he bites. If he doesn't, you hire someone else. Problem solved.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Brown coached Bibby. It was one of the few times in his lifetime that Bibby was spotted playing defense. I think it's a hard uphill climb of an argument to say that Detroit - a team without a superstar - won an NBA Championship despite Larry Brown.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
While there is a connection between wining games and trying to make the play offs, there is a BIG difference between giving young players lots of time and pushing THEM to win and playing vets. Bu hey if the end of the season is in sight and there are not enough L's I'm sure coach Muss could collect a few... unfortunatly probably one or two less than than necessary.
Arena Skeptic
Bench
Nice thoughts, but I think the rest of the league understand that KT, Miller, and any of about 4 other players can be had "for a song." Teams do not want Brad Miller, period. I think the Kings are stuck with watching the clock run out on at least 5 contracts, and until all those contracts have expired, the Kings have no cap room to bring in a big name.
You always gotta think this way: Who would I trade away to bring in Kenny Thomas? If I was ANY of the other GMs in this league, my answer would be "No one." Not a late second-round pick; nothing.
The Kings are now paying for their "Win Now!" approach of 2002 and 2003. I think in the case of every single one of their overdone contracts -- Artest, Bibby, SAR, KT and Miller -- there's really only one thing they can do: Watch the clock run out.
No one wants Mike Bibby's contract. Can I state it more simply?
Thank goodness Bonzi foolishly turned down the Kings offer. It was preposterous that Petrie made him that offer; it was even dumber that Bonzi declined it.
BawLa
Starter
Hehe, well I didn't say it would be easy.
I think I made it clear where I am coming from. The first step to rebuild is to clear up some room for talent. The best way to do that IMO, is to bring in an experienced coach. I was pro SVG because I felt that he could do the same thing. If I had to pick a coach that would have the best shot at rehabilitating the image of our "three stooges", and I had to pick between Larry Brown and the rest of the board, I'd take Larry Brown.
I'm not 100% sold on Larry Brown and his antics, but I am sold on the fact that he is an experienced, proven coach. I'm not advocating that we bring him in to be our coach for the next 10 years. I just want him here for 1 or 2 so that we can get the rebuild going as quick as possible. If we keep bringing in Eric Musselman types, then we are just going to be waiting until the three stooges' contracts are up, which will further delay progress.
Arena Skeptic
Bench
I had to review this before I answered...
The 2004 Pistons had Billups, Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Okur, and Ben Wallace, among others.
That's pretty good. Billups is considered to the the #1 free agent this summer. I think he's pretty darned good. I bet you'd take Billups for Bibby in a heartbeat.
The Laker team they beat had Malone, Kobe, Shaqille, Payton and Derek Fisher. It ain't exactly like the Pistons beat a bunch of stiffs.
I'm really not wild about Brown. The Pistons fired him a year later, in spite of making the Finals.
Do I think it'd be a mistake to talk to Brown? If your team was on the verge of being a conference finalist, I'd say you should consider him. He'd probably work out pretty well in Dallas. But the Kings have at least 5 untradeable players. I think that's a problem. To me, the Kings are a 3+ year project, and Brown has a bad track record if you want that much time out of him.
Bring in Nellie to establish a direction; bring in Brown to get you over the hump, recognizing that if he doesn't get you over the hump in two years, year three is probably going to suck.
BawLa
Starter
Well you make some very valid points. And we may very well be stuck with the three stooges until their contracts expire. It is a reality that I have already accepted. But that doesn't mean we should give up trying.
I know it is a big IF, but IF we can get one or more of these guys playing good basketball, then I truly believe we can make trades.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
when was the last time Larry even HAD a year 3? I'm pretty sure that a 70 year old LB is not likely to still be arround to be fired.
First, I just want to applaud everyone who is participating in this thread. It's one of the reasons I love this board. Valid points all around from some of the best basketball fans I've ever encountered.
Give yourselves a round of applause...
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See, there's where you and I have to agree to disagree. I don't think Thomas, SAR or Miller can be rehabilitated. Of the three, I would actually hold out the most hope for Brad, for whom we at least know what to expect (when his foot is okay).
And if we're going to agree they can't be salvaged, then the rationale to bring Brown in disappears...like a poof of smoke. Which is what he would most likely do before too long, anyway.
Give yourselves a round of applause...
-------------------------------------------------------------
BawLa said:
See, there's where you and I have to agree to disagree. I don't think Thomas, SAR or Miller can be rehabilitated. Of the three, I would actually hold out the most hope for Brad, for whom we at least know what to expect (when his foot is okay).
And if we're going to agree they can't be salvaged, then the rationale to bring Brown in disappears...like a poof of smoke. Which is what he would most likely do before too long, anyway.
BawLa
Starter
See, there's where you and I have to agree to disagree. I don't think Thomas, SAR or Miller can be rehabilitated. Of the three, I would actually hold out the most hope for Brad, for whom we at least know what to expect (when his foot is okay).
And if we're going to agree they can't be salvaged, then the rationale to bring Brown in disappears...like a poof of smoke. Which is what he would most likely do before too long, anyway.
I hate to disappoint, so we are going to disagree. The rationale to bring in Brown will never disappear because of all the coaches left on the board, he is the one that I feel has the best chance to do it. Will your argument be easier to make? Most definitely. But as you well know, I am not afraid to take on the tougher cases.
Did Brad work better in a princeton offense? Of course. Does that mean he is completely worthless? No. As much as I ripped on Brad for only being able to jump 3 inches off the ground, he still has some talent. When he is confident, he is one of the best shooting big men around. And he is a great passer for being 7 feet tall. Are there any teams out there that will be contenders and could use a scoring, passing big man to come off the bench? Oh and did I mention free throws!
Of the three, I think SAR is the most tradeable. He can still score down low and just look how well he played against San Antonio in his first ever playoff apperance. I'll bet you a team like Cleveland could've used someone like SAR coming off the bench. Just like Brad, SAR could be valuable bench depth on the right team.
Kenny, well, he is Kenny. You know what you are going to get. Rebounds, hustle putbacks, and the ugliest jumpshot in the history of the game. Find a team that desperately needs rebounding and begin courtship. Maybe you find a team that has an injured power forward and is desperate for some bench depth. I realize it is very unlikely, however it is not impossible.
I think I need to make this clear. I definitely don't think we could get an all-star talent in return for one of these guys. Frankly, I don't care much who we get back as long as they have 2 legs and an ending contract. The point is, that we get their contracts off the books as soon as possible to create space for the real rebuild.
tyrant
Starter
how bout trading all 3 for a talent? the funny thing is that we have two players that dont start who are the best at what we need on this team. corliss is our best post player and justin williams is (per minute) our best rebounder and shotblocker. we can hang on to those two and send reef,miller and thomas packing
I disagree. Artest still has some value. It may be 50% of his actual on court value, but that's something. Shareef has value in the right situation. His numbers last year weren't that bad. It's just that Shareed doesn't do the things (rebound, block shots, play interior defense) that the Kings sorely need. In the right situation, Shareef is still worth as much as most mid-level exception level players in the NBA.
I do agree that given their contracts, Kenny Thomas and Brad Miller have essentially no NBA value. The one positive is that Brad is unselfish and can be a decent teammate if his body/play doesn't continue to deteriorate. I keep saying it, but I think the Kings should just cut KT loose by buying him out of his contract. It's addition by subtraction.
BawLa
Starter
Miles and Miles
G-League
I think Brown at least needs to be contacted. IMO he's much better then the "finialist" that we have to date. Why not interview and see what he's up to?
LPKingsFan
All-Star
At this point, I'd take Brown with a 1-year deal with the second a team option, and Brooks as the lead assistant and future head coach waiting in the wings.
non story?! he's a Hall of Famer. He's the only coach to ever win both a college and NBA Championship!Are we still talking about this? Until Brown is contacted by the Kings, this is the biggest non-story of the year.
He may be an egomaniacal psycho, but he's Larry Brown! and he says he'd like to coach OUR team!!! the team with the worst frontcourt in the league! the team that can't play defense, block shots, or grab rebounds to save its life. the team that traded for the guy who tried to fight Detroit! and he wants to coach us?! that is sooooooo totally a story!
in fact, its too crazy to be possible. so crazy, that it just might work!
It's only a story because Ailene Voisin made it one. She's the one who earlier was touting Bill Laimbeer but nobody (with the possible exception of me ) bit on that one.
Voisin contacted Brown. Voisin and now Amick have made this a story. It's not a story until/unless the Kings actually show even a trace of interest in Brown and thus far it's only in Voisin's imagination.
) bit on that one.Voisin contacted Brown. Voisin and now Amick have made this a story. It's not a story until/unless the Kings actually show even a trace of interest in Brown and thus far it's only in Voisin's imagination.
JoMama
Bench
According to this evening's news reports, the Kings STILL haven't called Brown. Petrie spent the day talking draft pick with the scouting staff.
This has nothing to do with the Larry Brown non-story, but I just flashed on an old campaign bumper sticker when Jerry Brown was running for governor of California: "If It's Brown, Flush It!"
This has nothing to do with the Larry Brown non-story, but I just flashed on an old campaign bumper sticker when Jerry Brown was running for governor of California: "If It's Brown, Flush It!"
The Brown family bore the brunt of a number of snide bumper stickers. When Reagan was running for governor of California to succeed Pat Brown (Jerry's father), a popular little item was the bumper sticker that read "We've had a clown for 8 years. Why not an actor?"
Entity
Hall of Famer
It's only a story because Ailene Voisin made it one. She's the one who earlier was touting Bill Laimbeer but nobody (with the possible exception of me
Voisin contacted Brown. Voisin and now Amick have made this a story. It's not a story until/unless the Kings actually show even a trace of interest in Brown and thus far it's only in Voisin's imagination.
mine and your disagreements aside. It would be kinda ( can't find the right word here) weird, strange, odd, funny, cool if Brown does become the coach of the kings. That it was all because of AV or any columnist for that matter. I mean she has really dove into the kings affairs head on.
Now if find it amusing and applaud her for it as she may be tired of the funk we are in. On the other you don't
But if it were a coach that you liked you might feel the same way i do about that part of it.
I just can't get over the fact this all got started by AV.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I agree. AV needed something to do, so she decides, WTH.......Are we still talking about this? Until Brown is contacted by the Kings, this is the biggest non-story of the year.
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