Barnes and Boston

[sactowndog]

The contract status (expiring vs. 2.5 years on a declining deal) is a major factor in favor of Barnes now vs. Barnes then. Is Nesmith and a first the best offer we're going to get for Barnes? Perhaps. Is it worth taking? Or are we better off just keeping Barnes in that case? When you're talking about a first in the 20+ range, there's a solid argument that two more years of Barnes is actually the best side of the deal. We can't come into this as if we HAVE to trade him just because another team wants him. Keeping him may well be the best move.

if you think short term keeping Barnes is absolutely the best move. If I thought the Kings were close to a competitive team I would say keep him.

But we aren’t.

If we get Nesmith who many considered with our first, a low chance pick with something in the 20’s, ( Bagley, Butler, Springer, Boston ) and more ping pong balls into a loaded top 5, that return to me is more than worth it to me.

just to put numbers to it. The win against Houston dropped us from 5th to 7th which is a loss of 10% chance of a top 4 pick. Barnes is easily worth 3-4 wins.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

You just can't get mad about beating Houston, they are a team that has lost 14 in a row and has is either picking top 4 or mid 20s so you can bet at the end of the day they will risk fines to blatantly lose. We are beating the Detroits and Houstons with or without Barnes, other teams play those teams too, you can't just say "well that happened" on some random night of the season.

The right coach could be worth 5-10 wins at least next season - Joerger who was slightly better with a bad attitude than Walton appears to have been worth that much, so maybe a better coach is worth even more. At that point Barnes 3-5 wins over the next two seasons could be extremely valuable.

 

[The_Jamal]

if you think short term keeping Barnes is absolutely the best move. If I thought the Kings were close to a competitive team I would say keep him.

But we aren’t.

If we get Nesmith who many considered with our first, a low chance pick with something in the 20’s, ( Bagley, Butler, Springer, Boston ) and more ping pong balls into a loaded top 5, that return to me is more than worth it to me.

just to put numbers to it. The win against Houston dropped us from 5th to 7th which is a loss of 10% chance of a top 4 pick. Barnes is easily worth 3-4 wins.

For us to lose to this Houston team, you'd have to bench Fox/Buddy/Barnes and Holmes too. Then you're talking pretty fair competition.

The issue is Bjelica/CoJo still getting minutes.

 

[Tetsujin]

For us to lose to this Houston team, you'd have to bench Fox/Buddy/Barnes and Holmes too. Then you're talking pretty fair competition.

The issue is Bjelica/CoJo still getting minutes.

To be fair, playing the young guys (Jeffries/Woodard/a literal mop in a jersey) instead of CoJo and occasionally Bjeli would probably actually hurt our tank efforts rather than help them.

 

[steelevt]

To be fair, playing the young guys (Jeffries/Woodard/a literal mop in a jersey) instead of CoJo and occasionally Bjeli would probably actually hurt our tank efforts rather than help them.

Why you gotta call out Ramsey like that?

 

[Tetsujin]

Why you gotta call out Ramsey like that?

To be fair, not sure how much playing time Ramsey would end up getting even if we went full play the young guys mode. He’s still super raw and playing behind our two most important players, Buddy Hield, who is or isn’t part of our core depending on who you talk to, and Kyle Guy who also isn’t totally unworthy of developmental time.

 

[sactowndog]

You just can't get mad about beating Houston, they are a team that has lost 14 in a row and has is either picking top 4 or mid 20s so you can bet at the end of the day they will risk fines to blatantly lose. We are beating the Detroits and Houstons with or without Barnes, other teams play those teams too, you can't just say "well that happened" on some random night of the season.

The right coach could be worth 5-10 wins at least next season - Joerger who was slightly better with a bad attitude than Walton appears to have been worth that much, so maybe a better coach is worth even more. At that point Barnes 3-5 wins over the next two seasons could be extremely valuable.

not really worried about Houston but we have a stretch playing Cleveland twice, Atlanta twice, Washington. We go 5-0 against them we are in the 10-12 spot with limited to no chance of a top 5 pick. If you trade Barnes and play Jeffries and JJ you probably don’t win those 5.

 

[steelevt]

not really worried about Houston but we have a stretch playing Cleveland twice, Atlanta twice, Washington. We go 5-0 against them we are in the 10-12 spot with limited to no chance of a top 5 pick. If you trade Barnes and play Jeffries and JJ you probably don’t win those 5.

We just gotta get those top 5 picks to sign with Haliburton’s agent and show them how to maneuver the player to the kings pick.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

not really worried about Houston but we have a stretch playing Cleveland twice, Atlanta twice, Washington. We go 5-0 against them we are in the 10-12 spot with limited to no chance of a top 5 pick. If you trade Barnes and play Jeffries and JJ you probably don’t win those 5.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us go 2-3 against those teams and another side of the board complaining about how horrible it is that we lost to the dregs of the league.

 

[The_Jamal]

not really worried about Houston but we have a stretch playing Cleveland twice, Atlanta twice, Washington. We go 5-0 against them we are in the 10-12 spot with limited to no chance of a top 5 pick. If you trade Barnes and play Jeffries and JJ you probably don’t win those 5.

I mean, we saw it tonight. Go against a very meh ATL team that's missing 2 key wing starters and they wipe the floor with us. This roster, even if we ship literally everybody, is not gonna match the tank job going on in DET, Minny and Houston.

 

[SacTownKid]

I mean, we saw it tonight. Go against a very meh ATL team that's missing 2 key wing starters and they wipe the floor with us. This roster, even if we ship literally everybody, is not gonna match the tank job going on in DET, Minny and Houston.

Yeah, no way should it, and the plethora of other potential super tankers hasn't even jumped in yet. As it gets closer to the deadline I'm interested to see what kind of effort the players bring. The loudest trade chatter this season has been tied to more than a few Kings. As of late they've kind of gone back to this waffling win 1, lose 1 type of team which does nothing but keep them just outside of the playoff picture long term. If they make no significant move even with Walton hampering them on the sidelines I think they make a possible push up for the simple fact that the players know they are stable for the rest of the year. How high they go who knows but they are obviously starting from a significant hole considering there's only so many games left. My concern is that's Dumars plan. Let other teams falling back raise you up which isn't a winning strategy.

 

[Tetsujin]

Celtics lost again.
Tatum and a first for Barnes. Make it happen Monte

 

[whozit]

Celtics lost again.
Tatum and a first for Barnes. Make it happen Monte

That is equitable to what many on their board are offering! They should probably throw in a first also.

 

[SacTownKid]

Celtics lost again.
Tatum and a first for Barnes. Make it happen Monte

Ainge counters with a partial trade exception, 2nd round swap rights in 2021 and an old Kendrick Perkins jersey. Leon Powe can be added in a sign and trade but only if McNair is willing to call him He-man in a seductive tone.

 

[luckytkp]

I am not sure Barnes is what they need. I feel they can use a big man more.

 

[chief bromden]

I wish we traded for Time Lord before he started beasting. If the Kings can still get him in a Barnes trade, I hope Monte pulls the trigger.

 

[midtowner]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...nes-buddy-hield-unlikely-to-be-moved.amp.html

I don’t necessarily hate this

 

[whozit]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...nes-buddy-hield-unlikely-to-be-moved.amp.html

I don’t necessarily hate this

And I don't necessarily like it. Depends on what the offers were/are and unless a trade goes down, truly never know. The rationale given..... doesn't want to tank but sure hasn't managed the other under his governorship.

 

[midtowner]

I think we are going to be bottom 8 no matter what (and hope to get lucky in the lottery). And I think as soon as we trade Barnes, we will be looking for someone that does exactly what he does. And as soon as we trade Buddy - we will be looking for scoring punch off the bench. And both guys trade values should be increasing through next year’s trade deadline. If there is a great offer - pull the trigger. But moving them jus for “flexibility” sake - doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[chief bromden]

And I don't necessarily like it. Depends on what the offers were/are and unless a trade goes down, truly never know. The rationale given..... doesn't want to tank but sure hasn't managed the other under his governorship.

I'm with you, and to add on, this blurb insinuates that Vivek is still involved in the moves that the GM makes... It's his team (mostly) so he can do what he wants, but it points to the GM not being the biggest problem in the past and the new GM will be influenced by Vivek to make certain moves just the same. Sigh.

 

[Gguod]

Of course its Vivek that doesnt want to tank. Lets keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and hope for a different result.

But moving them jus for “flexibility” sake - doesn’t make much sense to me.

Its not only for flexibility. Its for getting a better pick this (and next) year. Its for getting another future assets like additional first round picks. Its for freeing up cap space to use it to get even more future assets.

The idea is that once you actually have a good enough core (and no we dont have that yet, not even close), you can easily pay 20mil/year to couple of guys that are at least as good as Buddy and Barnes and then they are your 4th best starter and your 6th man. Then they are those guys that can be part of the supporting cast around your core. Thats the way to get competitive, not the other way around.

At least tanking makes it easier to get that star level player that we desperately need in order to become a true contender. That is based on having much more draft assets and also better draft assets (higher own 1sts). More and better bites of the apple in the search of a star player.

 

[funkykingston]

I read that article today and had the same reaction as @chief bromden

After this many years I would hope that Vivek has learned to hire basketball people and let them do their job but (if the article's assertions are true) that doesn't seem to be the case.

It's already tough enough sledding to build a winning NBA team in Sacramento. McNair (or any Kings GM) is only hampered further if the owner is dictating player movement (or lack of movement in this case).

I'm not in favor of trading Barnes or Hield just to trade them, especially Barnes who may finally consistently start as a small ball 4 with Bagley out. But if there's a good deal out there that is a step back now with a shot at being better later the Kings should take it. Otherwise it's the same treadmill of mediocrity.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I read that article today and had the same reaction as @chief bromden

After this many years I would hope that Vivek has learned to hire basketball people and let them do their job but (if the article's assertions are true) that doesn't seem to be the case.

It's already tough enough sledding to build a winning NBA team in Sacramento. McNair (or any Kings GM) is only hampered further if the owner is dictating player movement (or lack of movement in this case).

I'm not in favor of trading Barnes or Hield just to trade them, especially Barnes who may finally consistently start as a small ball 4 with Bagley out. But if there's a good deal out there that is a step back now with a shot at being better later the Kings should take it. Otherwise it's the same treadmill of mediocrity.

"One of the things I heard was that essentially they're only going to trade Barnes and Hield if they're blown away by an offer. Not because they overvalue them, but because Vivek Ranadive wants to be competitive. He doesn't want to tank."

For anyone curious.

 

[whozit]

"One of the things I heard was that essentially they're only going to trade Barnes and Hield if they're blown away by an offer. Not because they overvalue them, but because Vivek Ranadive wants to be competitive. He doesn't want to tank."

For anyone curious.

It will be curious what the fan reaction will be whenever fans are allowed back in California. Will they swarm back or will it be more muted with many having gone on with the new normal and found other forms of entertainment more gratifying for the money?

I would not be shocked either way. My wife works in the schools and I take my daughter to skating lessons but I find myself more comfortable away from crowds than before. Just because I have developed social anxieties doesn't mean that is the norm for others.

 

[The Effort Police]

Of course its Vivek that doesnt want to tank. Lets keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and hope for a different result.



Its not only for flexibility. Its for getting a better pick this (and next) year. Its for getting another future assets like additional first round picks. Its for freeing up cap space to use it to get even more future assets.

The idea is that once you actually have a good enough core (and no we dont have that yet, not even close), you can easily pay 20mil/year to couple of guys that are at least as good as Buddy and Barnes and then they are your 4th best starter and your 6th man. Then they are those guys that can be part of the supporting cast around your core. Thats the way to get competitive, not the other way around.

At least tanking makes it easier to get that star level player that we desperately need in order to become a true contender. That is based on having much more draft assets and also better draft assets (higher own 1sts). More and better bites of the apple in the search of a star player.

Funny that he lets Vlade run roughshod over this franchise for five years and decides he wants to get involved again now.

I have a theory he resonated with Vlade's groundless yet confident bluster and that they shared the same vision, refusal to tank and remain "competitive" by being the 11th seed with short-term, win-now moves.

If we had remained 8th in the 2018 draft without the opportunity to pass on Luka, I think Vlade would still be here with Vivek fully in support of his vision.

 

[midtowner]

Funny that he lets Vlade run roughshod over this franchise for five years and decides he wants to get involved again now.

I have a theory he resonated with Vlade's groundless yet confident bluster and that they shared the same vision, refusal to tank and remain "competitive" by being the 11th seed with short-term, win-now moves.

If we had remained 8th in the 2018 draft without the opportunity to pass on Luka, I think Vlade would still be here with Vivek fully in support of his vision.

If Vlade drafted SGA at number 8 - he would probably still be here.

 

[The Effort Police]

If Vlade drafted SGA at number 8 - he would probably still be here.

Bold of you to assume he drafts SGA at 8.

I'd sooner assume he just passes on SGA because of fit. See: Doncic, Luka and Mitchell, Donovan.

 

[midtowner]

That wasn’t an assumption. But I did want to draw attention to the fact that their are players in the draft after the top 5. I hope we get Cade or Mobley in this draft, but it’s not the end of the world to get a top 10 pick and still have Barnes and Buddy on the roster.

 

[sactowndog]

That wasn’t an assumption. But I did want to draw attention to the fact that their are players in the draft after the top 5. I hope we get Cade or Mobley in this draft, but it’s not the end of the world to get a top 10 pick and still have Barnes and Buddy on the roster.

their are but by all accounts they are nowhere near the quality of the top 5 and this team desperately needs another young stud player.

 

[gunks]

"One of the things I heard was that essentially they're only going to trade Barnes and Hield if they're blown away by an offer. Not because they overvalue them, but because Vivek Ranadive wants to be competitive. He doesn't want to tank."

For anyone curious.

So 10 seed forever?

Cool Vivek, very cool.