Backlog at the 4 & 5

[Kingster]

I didn't suggest he needed to experiment with every possible lineup combination. I am saying that a coach constantly reads and reacts to new performance data of individuals and combinations in training camp and regular season that may validate or contradict his plan of action. This process never ends. The coach should know as well as anyone if you are constantly tinkering you open yourself up to instability. The chemistry you aspire to is never achieved. But the desire for stability and role definition has to be balanced with changes when justified. For example if he chooses and trusts in Iman as a backup wing from the outset and he shoots 30% over the first dozen games then maybe it is time to see what Jackson can do with those same minutes. I am not saying anything outrageous here. The main point I was making however is the allocation of minutes starts with defining your rotational players. You are in or out. If you are out you may or may not be out for good. Chances are over the long season with injuries and whatnot temporary bench warmers will be given the chance. Taking X minutes and trying to divide them up over X players is theoretical exercise without practical value. It will always lead to the conclusion there are not enough minutes to go around.

It's not a theoretical exercise. Ninety-six minutes for the 4 & 5 positions isn't theoretical. And the number of players at the 4 & 5 isn't theoretical. And if you think that such an exercise will always lead to the conclusion that there won't be enough minutes go around, go back to last year with the small forward position and do the same exercise, this time for 48 minutes. Would you really have believed at the beginning of the season there just wasn't enough minutes to go around for JJ and whomever?

I expect Divac and Joerger have both done something like this exercise and know there is an issue for the 4 & 5 because of the scarcity of minutes, which in turn will lead them to trade one or two of these guys, hopefully sooner rather than later. Hopefully, they will do something proactively and won't wait until 30 games into the season to see how it all works out and then be forced to do something reactively. A player sitting on the bench isn't one that normally gets you value in a trade. Also, let's face it. The issue of minutes usually isn't a big deal on a winning team. Such a team already has a defined cast and the players who don't get the minutes are willing to suffer it because the team is winning. The Kings are not going to be that team next year. Depending on how they manage the distribution of minutes, they could have dissension in the ranks, not the culture that Vlade was hoping for.

 

[KingsSelecao]

I expect Joerger to play the vets a lot. He may experiment with a young line up for a few games. But, Joerger will still play Zbo, Koufas, and Shump tons of minutes. Watch and see. Joerger will be on the hot seat and an extra 5-6 wins at the end of the year could save his job.

 

[Blob]

It's not a theoretical exercise. Ninety-six minutes for the 4 & 5 positions isn't theoretical. And the number of players at the 4 & 5 isn't theoretical. And if you think that such an exercise will always lead to the conclusion that there won't be enough minutes go around, go back to last year with the small forward position and do the same exercise, this time for 48 minutes. Would you really have believed at the beginning of the season there just wasn't enough minutes to go around for JJ and whomever?

I expect Divac and Joerger have both done something like this exercise and know there is an issue for the 4 & 5 because of the scarcity of minutes, which in turn will lead them to trade one or two of these guys, hopefully sooner rather than later. Hopefully, they will do something proactively and won't wait until 30 games into the season to see how it all works out and then be forced to do something reactively. A player sitting on the bench isn't one that normally gets you value in a trade. Also, let's face it. The issue of minutes usually isn't a big deal on a winning team. Such a team already has a defined cast and the players who don't get the minutes are willing to suffer it because the team is winning. The Kings are not going to be that team next year. Depending on how they manage the distribution of minutes, they could have dissension in the ranks, not the culture that Vlade was hoping for.

You are making a fair comment but wouldn't you agree Joerger is going to choose his rotation in camp, though he probably has a general to good idea now, he is going to assign starters and backups that he thinks will complement, and allocate minutes from there? That's the practical approach I am referring to. The minutes fall in line after the player has won the position, not before. A dynamic assessment continues from there. He's not doing math and division and seeing how many minutes are left over for Mason at backup PG. He's going to let Mason and Yogi fight it out and may the best player win.

Dissension is unlikely with this coach. For as critical as I have been regarding his sideline performance he keeps a happy cohesive locker room. He garners respect and have open lines of communication with his players. It is his strength. He handled the situation of sending vets to the bench last year with aplomb. It is not a Karl situation where he is dismissive of players and compared his players to peak Kemp or Payton and reminded them of their shortcomings.

I have thought about the imbalance too. With the most cap space at 14M I think it is more important the Kings to "keep their powder dry" and seize when an irresistible offer presents itself rather than a make a borderline move for sake of roster balance and to prevent "dissension". I would rather have an unhappy Z-Bo, Iman, Koufos and/or Willie than do something regrettable. You are implying there is a sense of urgency to get rid of one of our bigs. I am certainly not opposed to moving Koufos, Z-Bo and Willie but there is very little to NO market for these players (or they would already be gone) and their happiness or lack thereof should not be a driving force.

If Vlade comes from this perspective of urgency to act it would be from a position of weakness. After trading of Hill, Temple, drafting of Bagley, signing of Yogi and Bjelica, I have an increasing confidence in this front office with our "co-GMs" of Brandon and Vlade, so I think they will resist imprudence. They are in the cat birds seat with their cap space. I am sure they know this and do not want to squander this position. They will want to prey on teams when the time is right. Whether that is before the camp or before the trade deadline, patience is a virtue.

 

[EIM86]

Somebody getting beched! And we should trade somebody once we find out who is the odd one out

 

[jcwkings]

You can't play a six big rotation, thats absurd. Pick four and give the majority to Giles, Bagley, Willie.

 

[Kingster]

You are making a fair comment but wouldn't you agree Joerger is going to choose his rotation in camp, though he probably has a general to good idea now, he is going to assign starters and backups that he thinks will complement, and allocate minutes from there? That's the practical approach I am referring to. The minutes fall in line after the player has won the position, not before. A dynamic assessment continues from there. He's not doing math and division and seeing how many minutes are left over for Mason at backup PG. He's going to let Mason and Yogi fight it out and may the best player win.

Dissension is unlikely with this coach. For as critical as I have been regarding his sideline performance he keeps a happy cohesive locker room. He garners respect and have open lines of communication with his players. It is his strength. He handled the situation of sending vets to the bench last year with aplomb. It is not a Karl situation where he is dismissive of players and compared his players to peak Kemp or Payton and reminded them of their shortcomings.

I have thought about the imbalance too. With the most cap space at 14M I think it is more important the Kings to "keep their powder dry" and seize when an irresistible offer presents itself rather than a make a borderline move for sake of roster balance and to prevent "dissension". I would rather have an unhappy Z-Bo, Iman, Koufos and/or Willie than do something regrettable. You are implying there is a sense of urgency to get rid of one of our bigs. I am certainly not opposed to moving Koufos, Z-Bo and Willie but there is very little to NO market for these players (or they would already be gone) and their happiness or lack thereof should not be a driving force.

If Vlade comes from this perspective of urgency to act it would be from a position of weakness. After trading of Hill, Temple, drafting of Bagley, signing of Yogi and Bjelica, I have an increasing confidence in this front office with our "co-GMs" of Brandon and Vlade, so I think they will resist imprudence. They are in the cat birds seat with their cap space. I am sure they know this and do not want to squander this position. They will want to prey on teams when the time is right. Whether that is before the camp or before the trade deadline, patience is a virtue.

I hope to God Joerger does, but we've seen a lot of inexplicable tinkering in the regular season from Joerger in the past. Hopefully, the "just win" theme of the season induces Joerger to minimize tinkering, except where it obviously needs tinkering. We may be agreeing in substance, Blob, just not in emphasis or semantics.

I agree that Vlade's latest actions imply a sense of patience on his part. It doesn't look like he's going to have a fire sale, and I wouldn't push to have one. I just hope that a willing buyer comes along prior to the season for some of the players for which he sees no future on the Kings.

 

[Blob]

I hope to God Joerger does, but we've seen a lot of inexplicable tinkering in the regular season from Joerger in the past. Hopefully, the "just win" theme of the season induces Joerger to minimize tinkering, except where it obviously needs tinkering. We may be agreeing in substance, Blob, just not in emphasis or semantics.

I agree that Vlade's latest actions imply a sense of patience on his part. It doesn't look like he's going to have a fire sale, and I wouldn't push to have one. I just hope that a willing buyer comes along prior to the season for some of the players for which he sees no future on the Kings.

I have mild confidence in this front office with "co-GMs" of Vlade and Brandon after having next to nil. The Kings have made a handful of moves in a row I wholeheartedly endorse starting with dumping Hill for 9M in cap space. The Hill signing for 2/40 guaranteed, the Z-Bo signing for 2/24 and Jackson pick (over OG and Kuzma) were problematic. On the heels of the Boogie trade, I was ready to pull the plug. Since then Vlade is on a bit of an impressive run. Let's review:

• Traded Hill for 9M in cap space (good)
• Drafted Bagley over Luka, did not succumb to external pressure (good; declared the pick to be better fit and talent; no equivocation)
• Tried to sign Mario H (good; the idea was good; the execution, selling and persuasion, could have been better)
• Tried to sign Zach LaVine (good; though 4/80 offer was criticized I think as LaVine regains health, his appeal will be vindicated)
• Traded Temple for Ben and 1M in space (good; Temple had a bad year at 32; shot happy and declining D and needed new start)
• Signed Bjelica (good; capitalized expeditiously on deal that fell apart with 76ers)
• Signed Yogi (good; capitalized expeditiously on deal that fell apart with Mavs)
• Reserved 14M in cap space to exploit desperate underachieving team (good)

Hey, hey lookie here, the Kings front office is actually showing, gasp, competence! You wouldn't know if you read the latest garbage piece from Ziller or perused the Sactown Royalty board of GIF happy groupthink sheep. Now that the front office has done their job with a series of sly and respectable moves with the cap space pending it is time for this coach to do his job. It is time for him to maximize the talent with which he has been provided. Joerger is on the HOT SEAT. This is the year if we find out if he can do more than keep a harmonious locker room.

If he returns to the player I deemed his security blanket, Z-Bud, his days are numbered. If he can't instill pace to middle of the pack with Fox running the show, what is he doing? Then he says one thing and does another and has been revealed as a fraud. If he continues in his bias against guys like Buddy and Skal, not allowing them to play through mistakes as readily as his star pupils, I will begin to worry. It was inexplicable last year for example that Buddy was playing behind Jackson. Jackson was a trash player and Buddy could go into unconscious beast mode at the drop of a pin. But this distinction was not acknowledged with the way the respective players were treated by the coach.

I am bit of conflicted on this last point RE: Buddy because he made awesome improvement on D. Maybe there was a "method to the madness" with the way the coach treated him? He asked him to be more than a shooter and he turned a corner. So let me give him a degree of benefit of the doubt here. In this context there is going to be a degree of tinkering with which you have to allow the coach. I don't believe the coach needs to pick his starters and backups then ride or die. As he continuously learns more about team and players perform individually and in combination up to expectations or not, adjustments are justified.

We don't have a perfect roster. Far from it. But Joerger has a lot to work with centered around the explosiveness of Bagley and Fox and sniper shooting of Buddy, Boggy and Yogi and the wild card Giles. No more excuses. No more "writing off the year" with we are too young and too inexperienced and too weak. These excuses out of self-preservation don't work anymore. Joerger can succeed if he does not try to recreate the best teams he had in Memphis. He needs to put that past in the past. He needs to coach the roster he has not the one of his wet dreams. I honestly feel that the only thing keeping De'Aaron Fox from All-Star stardom is his coach! If this concern proves unsubstantiated 10-15 games in Joerger has seen the light. Exciting times are ahead. If this coach continues to bow to the altar of overly intricate play sets, the carousel of crapola keeps spinning.

Joerger should emphasize fun in the context of execution and discipline. It sounds simple enough but it is a real challenge for this guy. I don't think his preferred style of play has been fun. It has been tedious. This team will play with an espirit de corps if the coach does not get in the way. This is what I will be looking for. It is NOT too much to ask but to me it is a legitimate concern. With athleticism and shooting we have there is NO reason this team cannot play with a lot of enthusiasm and competitive fire. If the coach takes the air out of the ball, something is amiss. Then we should just turn the team over to my man Larry Lewis. I see a bright future for this man. If Joerger is not up to the task, perhaps the biggest question going into this season, then move aside for LL.

 

[Kingster]

I have mild confidence in this front office with "co-GMs" of Vlade and Brandon after having next to nil. The Kings have made a handful of moves in a row I wholeheartedly endorse starting with dumping Hill for 9M in cap space. The Hill signing for 2/40 guaranteed, the Z-Bo signing for 2/24 and Jackson pick (over OG and Kuzma) were problematic. On the heels of the Boogie trade, I was ready to pull the plug. Since then Vlade is on a bit of an impressive run. Let's review:

• Traded Hill for 9M in cap space (good)
• Drafted Bagley over Luka, did not succumb to external pressure (good; declared the pick to be better fit and talent; no equivocation)
• Tried to sign Mario H (good; the idea was good; the execution, selling and persuasion, could have been better)
• Tried to sign Zach LaVine (good; though 4/80 offer was criticized I think as LaVine regains health, his appeal will be vindicated)
• Traded Temple for Ben and 1M in space (good; Temple had a bad year at 32; shot happy and declining D and needed new start)
• Signed Bjelica (good; capitalized expeditiously on deal that fell apart with 76ers)
• Signed Yogi (good; capitalized expeditiously on deal that fell apart with Mavs)
• Reserved 14M in cap space to exploit desperate underachieving team (good)

Hey, hey lookie here, the Kings front office is actually showing, gasp, competence! You wouldn't know if you read the latest garbage piece from Ziller or perused the Sactown Royalty board of GIF happy groupthink sheep. Now that the front office has done their job with a series of sly and respectable moves with the cap space pending it is time for this coach to do his job. It is time for him to maximize the talent with which he has been provided. Joerger is on the HOT SEAT. This is the year if we find out if he can do more than keep a harmonious locker room.

If he returns to the player I deemed his security blanket, Z-Bud, his days are numbered. If he can't instill pace to middle of the pack with Fox running the show, what is he doing? Then he says one thing and does another and has been revealed as a fraud. If he continues in his bias against guys like Buddy and Skal, not allowing them to play through mistakes as readily as his star pupils, I will begin to worry. It was inexplicable last year for example that Buddy was playing behind Jackson. Jackson was a trash player and Buddy could go into unconscious beast mode at the drop of a pin. But this distinction was not acknowledged with the way the respective players were treated by the coach.

I am bit of conflicted on this last point RE: Buddy because he made awesome improvement on D. Maybe there was a "method to the madness" with the way the coach treated him? He asked him to be more than a shooter and he turned a corner. So let me give him a degree of benefit of the doubt here. In this context there is going to be a degree of tinkering with which you have to allow the coach. I don't believe the coach needs to pick his starters and backups then ride or die. As he continuously learns more about team and players perform individually and in combination up to expectations or not, adjustments are justified.

We don't have a perfect roster. Far from it. But Joerger has a lot to work with centered around the explosiveness of Bagley and Fox and sniper shooting of Buddy, Boggy and Yogi and the wild card Giles. No more excuses. No more "writing off the year" with we are too young and too inexperienced and too weak. These excuses out of self-preservation don't work anymore. Joerger can succeed if he does not try to recreate the best teams he had in Memphis. He needs to put that past in the past. He needs to coach the roster he has not the one of his wet dreams. I honestly feel that the only thing keeping De'Aaron Fox from All-Star stardom is his coach! If this concern proves unsubstantiated 10-15 games in Joerger has seen the light. Exciting times are ahead. If this coach continues to bow to the altar of overly intricate play sets, the carousel of crapola keeps spinning.

Joerger should emphasize fun in the context of execution and discipline. It sounds simple enough but it is a real challenge for this guy. I don't think his preferred style of play has been fun. It has been tedious. This team will play with an espirit de corps if the coach does not get in the way. This is what I will be looking for. It is NOT too much to ask but to me it is a legitimate concern. With athleticism and shooting we have there is NO reason this team cannot play with a lot of enthusiasm and competitive fire. If the coach takes the air out of the ball, something is amiss. Then we should just turn the team over to my man Larry Lewis. I see a bright future for this man. If Joerger is not up to the task, perhaps the biggest question going into this season, then move aside for LL.

View attachment 8298

Yes, Joerger is on the hot seat. I think within the first 10 games or so we're going to know whether Joerger is up to the job. If we don't see the energy, the pace, the competitiveness, and the young legs, it's not going to be pretty.

 

[Larry David]

Somebody getting beched! And we should trade somebody once we find out who is the odd one out

Not sure there is a ton of value for the player deemed to be the Kings 5th best big man

 

[dude12]

Yes, Joerger is on the hot seat. I think within the first 10 games or so we're going to know whether Joerger is up to the job. If we don't see the energy, the pace, the competitiveness, and the young legs, it's not going to be pretty.

What makes you think that we possibly wouldn’t compete with energy. They did all last year. He’s on the hot seat? No, no he’s not..

 

[ESP47]

What makes you think that we possibly wouldn’t compete with energy. They did all last year. He’s on the hot seat? No, no he’s not..

I think he is for sure. You're probably remembering the 6 or 7 highlight finishes the Kings had and forgetting the dozens of stinkers they put up.

Not only the fans, but the FO is going to be looking for change from Joerger this year. If it's more of the same offensive sets as last year, he's going to be gone by the end of this year. I don't think the Kings can afford to waste their time on this archaic basketball with a team full of modern day players.

 

[Kingster]

What makes you think that we possibly wouldn’t compete with energy. They did all last year. He’s on the hot seat? No, no he’s not..

LOL. Oh, yes he is. He can get his seat a lot cooler if gets his fast, athletic team to play as such. If they are last in pace like last year, good bye Joerger.

 

[dude12]

I’ll address both of you. To say that this team didn’t play hard for Joerger is just revisionist. He’s going to use the same sets, probably use more pick and roll, faster pace. He’s said as much that he wants a fast pace. Why do you ignore that? That’s as much on the players (Fox) as anything. Fox in the second year should have the confidence and supporting cast to push pace.

On the hot seat? No effing way. Not yet.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

I expect Joerger to play the vets a lot. He may experiment with a young line up for a few games. But, Joerger will still play Zbo, Koufas, and Shump tons of minutes. Watch and see. Joerger will be on the hot seat and an extra 5-6 wins at the end of the year could save his job.

If Joerger thinks ZBo, Koufas and Shumpert would actually help him win games he should be fired now, just to spare us the misery. Zach Randolph was the worst post defender and quite possibly the worst defender in the league with 500+ minutes. If I was Vlade, I would let Joerger know that if see ZBo on the court, I am firing him after the game.

 

[burekijogurt]

part of the Kings pace issue is the (apparent) lack of BBIQ. fast pace means getting into your offensive sets quickly and generating a good shoot early in the shotclock. This requires knowing what to do, reading the defense, and it requires it of all the participants. the athleticism is not the deciding factor here. now, if we are just talking about possessions that can be classified as fast breaks, ok, athleticism plays a bigger role perhaps, but it still requires execution. just because kings players are fast and athletic does not mean they know how to execute a fast break properly let alone a “paced-up” possession...yet.

 

[The Effort Police]

I’ll address both of you. To say that this team didn’t play hard for Joerger is just revisionist. He’s going to use the same sets, probably use more pick and roll, faster pace. He’s said as much that he wants a fast pace. Why do you ignore that? That’s as much on the players (Fox) as anything. Fox in the second year should have the confidence and supporting cast to push pace.

On the hot seat? No effing way. Not yet.

Yes he is.

This has been said to be a make or break year even by people who work for or are close to the organization.

He's said he wants a fast pace long before Fox got here and even before he started coaching the Kings. It's never materialized; that's why people think it's just talk.

He's going to use the same sets. God help us. The sets are worse than the slow pace if you ask me.

 

[Blob]

I’ll address both of you. To say that this team didn’t play hard for Joerger is just revisionist.

On the hot seat? No effing way. Not yet.

Do you want to give credit for the job Joerger did last year? If you do I suggest you raise your standards. He kept the peace in the locker room and guys played relatively hard. That's something. But his system and plan to maximize the talent at his disposal was a massive flop as evidenced by being LAST in offense AND last in defense for MOST of the year. What did we establish under his guidance and leadership besides inefficiency on both ends at the BOTTOM of the league? Nothing! What he tried didn't work.

Usually if you take the air out of the ball you can move up the ranks defensively. If you open the game with free wheeling style up you can usually put points on the board with increasing efficiency. We did neither until the season was effectively over and many teams were resting starters and playing G-League guys. We finished 9-11 over meaningless stretch that included bad losses though that did not stop the GM from crowing over, effectively trying to put lipstick on a Pig of a Season. We finished off the worst ranking (29th in offense and 27th in defense) because a few teams especially Chicago (28th in defense) and Phoenix (30th in defense) were actively trying to lose down the stretch and we weren't. This was our season under this coach. To try to portray it differently is revisionist.

Joerger hasn't shown his system and guidance provides ANY positive value. Coach Stevens is the best coach in the NBA because he tailors his system to his talent. Joerger has tries to go about in reverse. That's not smart. He's tried to fit the players into his Memphis system. If he's not more flexible, expansive and creative in his thinking and implementation he needs to go. If he cannot set aside his ego which is rooted in the insistence of his overly intricate system, he's in trouble. Joerger can succeed if he enhances the explosiveness of Fox and Bagley, the sniper shot making of Boggy Buddy and Yogi, and uses his wild card man-child Giles judiciously.

If this coach still has googly eyes for Randolph he should be shown the door in November or December before another season is wasted. On the hot seat? Effing yes.

 

[Telemachus]

part of the Kings pace issue is the (apparent) lack of BBIQ. fast pace means getting into your offensive sets quickly and generating a good shoot early in the shotclock. This requires knowing what to do, reading the defense, and it requires it of all the participants. the athleticism is not the deciding factor here. now, if we are just talking about possessions that can be classified as fast breaks, ok, athleticism plays a bigger role perhaps, but it still requires execution. just because kings players are fast and athletic does not mean they know how to execute a fast break properly let alone a “paced-up” possession...yet.

I would add to this taking the open shot when it is there. How many open shots did the Kings pass up this past season (especially in the first half)? And this was true of most of the young players. It was the vets who were quick to take the open shots right away.

 

[dude12]

Anyone that is seriously critical of Joerger at this point, in my opinion, is willfully stubborn or lacking in awareness. He was given an unusually young roster and had to develop said pieces. Now, I understand that not everyone is happy with HIS process of development, but my expectations were where they needed to be last year. Those calling for his head last year? Yeah, your still here and now saying he’s on the hot seat. Granted, every professional head coach is on some type of hotseat but this year isn’t the year. What your saying is he’s not doing what he’s supposed to on your timeline. I think it’s unreasonable to push the developmental timeline ahead of where it realistically should be. Maybe the front office is with you on make or break, I highly doubt it.

 

[dude12]

Do you want to give credit for the job Joerger did last year? If you do I suggest you raise your standards. He kept the peace in the locker room and guys played relatively hard. That's something. But his system and plan to maximize the talent at his disposal was a massive flop as evidenced by being LAST in offense AND last in defense for MOST of the year. What did we establish under his guidance and leadership besides inefficiency on both ends at the BOTTOM of the league? Nothing! What he tried didn't work.

Usually if you take the air out of the ball you can move up the ranks defensively. If you open the game with free wheeling style up you can usually put points on the board with increasing efficiency. We did neither until the season was effectively over and many teams were resting starters and playing G-League guys. We finished 9-11 over meaningless stretch that included bad losses though that did not stop the GM from crowing over, effectively trying to put lipstick on a Pig of a Season. We finished off the worst ranking (29th in offense and 27th in defense) because a few teams especially Chicago (28th in defense) and Phoenix (30th in defense) were actively trying to lose down the stretch and we weren't. This was our season under this coach. To try to portray it differently is revisionist.

Joerger hasn't shown his system and guidance provides ANY positive value. Coach Stevens is the best coach in the NBA because he tailors his system to his talent. Joerger has tries to go about in reverse. That's not smart. He's tried to fit the players into his Memphis system. If he's not more flexible, expansive and creative in his thinking and implementation he needs to go. If he cannot set aside his ego which is rooted in the insistence of his overly intricate system, he's in trouble. Joerger can succeed if he enhances the explosiveness of Fox and Bagley, the sniper shot making of Boggy Buddy and Yogi, and uses his wild card man-child Giles judiciously.

If this coach still has googly eyes for Randolph he should be shown the door in November or December before another season is wasted. On the hot seat? Effing yes.

Except Joerger has won in the NBA......oh I forget, he inherited a winning team. Lmao.

 

[Blob]

Except Joerger has won in the NBA......oh I forget, he inherited a winning team. Lmao.

You are giving a TOTAL PASS to the coach married to Zach Randolph last year, the worst defense player in the league coming off 52% TS. The year before Mr. Einstein was married to bricklayer has-been nightclub brawler Matt Barnes who enabled Boogie. That's not right. That's not impeccable judgement. That's not the coach who is making himself indispensable with his strategy and discretion. It is a dude with his own flaws and blind spots. But let's not put him on the "hot seat" because of what he did back in 2013? Give me a break. Joerger can still succeed and I think the chances are he probably will. But if his ego gets the best of him and starts trotting out Randolph for 15-20 MPG I will calling him to be fired before the holidays.

 

[miltonap]

If I see Zach Randolph getting big minutes again I'm going to yack

 

[dude12]

You are giving a TOTAL PASS to the coach married to Zach Randolph last year, the worst defense player in the league coming off 52% TS. The year before Mr. Einstein was married to bricklayer has-been nightclub brawler Matt Barnes who enabled Boogie. That's not right. That's not impeccable judgement. That's not the coach who is making himself indispensable with his strategy and discretion. It is a dude with his own flaws and blind spots. But let's not put him on the "hot seat" because of what he did back in 2013? Give me a break. Joerger can still succeed and I think the chances are he probably will. But if his ego gets the best of him and starts trotting out Randolph for 15-20 MPG I will calling him to be fired before the holidays.

Zbo was here to be a bridge to the younger guys. Whether you agree or not, I’m of the opinion that throwing Skal out there for 30 minutes probably not a great idea. Boogie and Barnes....they have nothing to do with this group. With Boogie, Joerger was trying to win. That was the directive. Go ahead and be critical of Joerger with that group but when they pulled the plug on it, they were close to the last spot. It has nothing to do with this youth movement.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

If the team doesn't believe Bagley is ready to start day 1 its going to be an even bigger blow watching Doncic go out and get 35mpg while playing solid ball.

WCS(24)/Giles(12)/Koufos(12)
Bagley(24)/Giles(6)/Skal(18)

I'm guessing Bjelica sees the majority of his minutes at the 3 this year since we have no other options and coach won't commit to Hield/Bogdan full time starters.

Since I anticipate Koufos getting minutes this would be acceptable to me. Moving forward after this year id like to see Koufos gone, and make a decision on 1 of WCS or Skal. I prefer Skal because his 3pt shooting ability and he always seems to try harder.

Giles/Bagley/Skal/Bjelica should be our bigs next year. I think all of these guys could play together interchagably and while we maintain a big front court, all 4 of these guys are capable of stretching the floor.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

You are giving a TOTAL PASS to the coach married to Zach Randolph last year, the worst defense player in the league coming off 52% TS. The year before Mr. Einstein was married to bricklayer has-been nightclub brawler Matt Barnes who enabled Boogie. That's not right. That's not impeccable judgement. That's not the coach who is making himself indispensable with his strategy and discretion. It is a dude with his own flaws and blind spots. But let's not put him on the "hot seat" because of what he did back in 2013? Give me a break. Joerger can still succeed and I think the chances are he probably will. But if his ego gets the best of him and starts trotting out Randolph for 15-20 MPG I will calling him to be fired before the holidays.

I've been calling to fire Joerger since midway through last year.

I think Vlade was handcuffed to an owner wanting to succeed with Demarcus and a new arena. The Stauskas trade was terrible no other words, but since then i'm impressed with the rebuild Vlade did in 2 years. I would like to keep Vlade in some capacity and fire Joerger whose been a terrible coach.

 

[Blob]

Zbo was here to be a bridge to the younger guys. Whether you agree or not, I’m of the opinion that throwing Skal out there for 30 minutes probably not a great idea. Boogie and Barnes....they have nothing to do with this group. With Boogie, Joerger was trying to win. That was the directive. Go ahead and be critical of Joerger with that group but when they pulled the plug on it, they were close to the last spot. It has nothing to do with this youth movement.

The point re: Randolph and Barnes (and I could throw Affalo in there for the inexplicable amount of run he garnered) is this coach is hardly infallible in his decision making nor should he be too cozy and secure in his position. He hasn't earned it . I am not going to write him off but I would say the time has come to produce or step aside. He is absolutely on the hot seat following year in which he led us to 2nd worst in offense and 4th worst in defense while handful of teams tanked. Wow what a indispensible jewel of a coach! Should we extend him four more seasons before another team swoops in and steals away a future COY and HOF inductee?! Despite my sarcasm and cynicism I think he can be part of our success. He's smart enough. He may be too stubborn and set in his old ways however. He needs to instill a system guys can embrace with just enough structure and principles to bring out their best. When you get past the bravado he is a C+ level coach. Maybe he can a B level coach if he expands his mind gets creative relies on the best his assistants have to offer and shows as much trust in Fox, Buddy, Skal and Bagley as he does in his vets.

 

[Kingsfan23]

What makes you think that we possibly wouldn’t compete with energy. They did all last year. He’s on the hot seat? No, no he’s not..

Vlade/Joerger are 100% on the hot seat

 

[ESP47]

I haven't cared about wins and losses for the last couple seasons. I just want to see player development. It's difficult to have your players develop when they can't get minutes and when they're playing in offensive sets that completely negate the abilities that got them to the NBA. I don't want to wait until they're playing a bunch of G Leaguers at the end of the year to see the young guys get minutes. It's such a waste of everyone's time.

The secret to these guys playing better isn't rocket surgery. The pace needs to be faster, Buddy and Bogie need to be shooting a bunch of threes, WCS needs to be running the pick and roll, Fox needs to be getting by his man and driving and kicking or driving and scoring and the rest of the guys need to be used to their strengths. The only younger players that I can recall that were used correctly last year were Bogie, Mason and JJ.

Fox was completely wasted. WCS was constantly doing work outside of his job description. Skal wasn't rewarded for good play and Buddy always had a quick hook when he would make mistakes, despite being our best player at the end of the previous year. If Joerger plays these guys to their strengths and they still fail, then there isn't anything to complain about but every offseason shouldn't be loaded with a million questions because we rarely ever got to see these guys in position to use their strengths and succeed.

 

[Kingster]

part of the Kings pace issue is the (apparent) lack of BBIQ. fast pace means getting into your offensive sets quickly and generating a good shoot early in the shotclock. This requires knowing what to do, reading the defense, and it requires it of all the participants. the athleticism is not the deciding factor here. now, if we are just talking about possessions that can be classified as fast breaks, ok, athleticism plays a bigger role perhaps, but it still requires execution. just because kings players are fast and athletic does not mean they know how to execute a fast break properly let alone a “paced-up” possession...yet.

Regarding playing fast, athleticism is not going to be a limiting factor for this team. I really can't think of many teams in the league that are as athletic as the Kings. As you imply, the limiting factor is execution. And what drives execution? Coaching. If this team was a bunch of slow, unathletic players, Joerger would have an easy excuse for not playing fast next season. He has no excuse.

Also, much of fast break basketball simply consists of see open man, get ball to open man, run the floor, spread the floor, and finish. There are some variations off of that theme, which mostly have to do with utilizing the 3 point line, but I just don't think it's all that complicated. It's certainly not as complicated as half-court set up offenses. That's why coaches with young teams typically want to run as much as possible - it utilizes their strengths (youth and athleticism) and minimizes their weakness (intricacies of the half court offense).

 

[bajaden]

Regarding playing fast, athleticism is not going to be a limiting factor for this team. I really can't think of many teams in the league that are as athletic as the Kings. As you imply, the limiting factor is execution. And what drives execution? Coaching. If this team was a bunch of slow, unathletic players, Joerger would have an easy excuse for not playing fast next season. He has no excuse.

Also, much of fast break basketball simply consists of see open man, get ball to open man, run the floor, spread the floor, and finish. There are some variations off of that theme, which mostly have to do with utilizing the 3 point line, but I just don't think it's all that complicated. It's certainly not as complicated as half-court set up offenses. That's why coaches with young teams typically want to run as much as possible - it utilizes their strengths (youth and athleticism) and minimizes their weakness (intricacies of the half court offense).

I think that just by the nature of the fact that the veterans will get far less minutes this year, the pace will get faster. It's hard to play at a quicker pace with Randolph on the floor, or for a period of time last season, Hill on the floor. Hill was a ball pounder who ate up the clock. Plus, last season was all about the young guys trying to find chemistry with each other, sometimes to the point of hurting the team by trying to be too unselfish. I remember plays where Bog's drove into the lane, had an apparent layup, but instead kicked the ball into the right corner to Jackson, who had an open shot, but instead put the ball on the floor, drove two dribbles closer to the basket, and into a more contested shot which he missed.

That's the kind of stuff that gives a coach grey hair, and also makes for a slower pace. So I contribute some of the slower pace to youth and inexperience, and some to the mix of veterans into the lineup. I doubt that Randolph will see many minutes this year. The Kings had told Temple that if he opted in, he wouldn't be playing. If they told Temple that, one can assume that they also mentioned it to 38 year old Randolph. As you pointed out, we have a very athletic team that wants to get out and run. The trick is to run, and get something quickly out of it. Stop passing up open shots!

I hate to pick on Skal, but he was culprit number one when it came to passing up an open shot and dribbling into a more contested one. Jackson was culprit number 2. Willie simply didn't take the 16 footer when it was there, and he has to, whether he makes it or not. He has to make the other team respect him from there. So your right, move the ball until you get an open shot, and then take the open shot. It won't always be easy to get an open shot, so for god's sake, don't pass them up when you have them. I think Buddy figured it out last season and I'm expecting a big year from him.