Artest's Value

[AyeCarly]

...the problem is that there's always the chance he'll resort to NOT thinking and doing something that hurts my beloved Kings.
...
For me, the drama has to stop at some point and it has to become about the Kings again, and not about the "troubled" or "mercurial" small forward.
...
It's not about disliking Artest; it's about not wanting our future to depend on him when, at any time, there could be another episode.
...

Nice post.

I understand "you've had it up to here" (hand level with head) with Artest's off court antics.
We know he has a history of behavior that has led to team distractions.

Aside from that, we have established by majority consensus that he is a top 20 on-court performer.

So what we're talking about here is that his character flaws outweigh what he brings to the court.

Your statement "it's" got to be about the Kings again, is a contradiction.

Ron is a King. What you are making "it" about, is Ron's past.

We recognize his strengths, now let's give him the benefit of the doubt until he does implode or is traded.

The Kings future and basketball in general isn't decided by one player. This is a team game.

Shaq, Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlin could not win by themselves.

 

[6th]

Nice post.

I understand "you've had it up to here" (hand level with head) with Artest's off court antics.
We know he has a history of behavior that has led to team distractions.

Aside from that, we have established by majority consensus that he is a top 20 on-court performer.

So what we're talking about here is that his character flaws outweigh what he brings to the court.

Your statement "it's" got to be about the Kings again, is a contradiction.

Ron is a King. What you are making "it" about, is Ron's past.

We recognize his strengths, now let's give him the benefit of the doubt until he does implode or is traded.

The Kings future and basketball in general isn't decided by one player. This is a team game.

Shaq, Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlin could not win by themselves.

I think what VF21 may refer to (and the way I feel, as well)...

Yes, Ron is a King. However, the Sacramento Kings are a team. It needs to be about the team again...and not about Ron and his distractions to said team.

 

[AyeCarly]

I think what VF21 may refer to (and the way I feel, as well)...

Yes, Ron is a King. However, the Sacramento Kings are a team. It needs to be about the team again...and not about Ron and his distractions to said team.

I respect your opinions.

Beyond being a team, the Kings are a professional organization, they took the chance knowing his past. If he was such a problem, the powers that be, could have benched him,

released him, or traded him by now and yet they have not. Why is that? If character was so important, look to the management first and not Ron.

This is not an attack, just an observation and opinion that people are using him as a scapegoat as one of the reasons we underachieved.

 

[VF21]

I think what VF21 may refer to (and the way I feel, as well)...

Yes, Ron is a King. However, the Sacramento Kings are a team. It needs to be about the team again...and not about Ron and his distractions to said team.

Exactly.

 

[VF21]

I respect your opinions.

Beyond being a team, the Kings are a professional organization, they took the chance knowing his past. If he was such a problem, the powers that be, could have benched him,

released him, or traded him by now and yet they have not. Why is that? If character was so important, look to the management first and not Ron.

This is not an attack, just an observation and opinion that people are using him as a scapegoat as one of the reasons we underachieved.

The Kings took a chance on Artest because the Maloofs are gamblers and they bet that his talents on the court would outshine any downsides. It wasn't a decision made in a vacuum.

NO ONE is using Ron Artest as a scapegoat. I have not blamed him for the underachievements of the team. I personally put most of the blame on Eric Musselman.

But it's not about blame. It's about wanting a team to move forward and get some of the stuff back we seemed to lose. One of those things, as 6th pointed out above, was the concept of TEAM. Look in the archives of the Bee last season and see how many headlines are about whatever drama Artest was embroiled in at the time. That's not what the Kings have been about.

One of the things that has made our Kings so special is the unity, the espirit de corps, the "band of brothers" concept. It wasn't there last year - and PART of the reason was the unending drama that is Ron Artest. He's a tragic figure - and I bear him no ill will. As a charter fan of the Sacramento Kings, however, I just don't want him to continue to distract the team, the fans, the media, etc.

If it doesn't bother you, that's fine. But please don't assume that our love for our team means we hate Artest. We don't hate him; we just think his negatives outweigh the possible positives, especially with a team looking towards the future and younger players.

 

[AyeCarly]

Yes the team lost its chemistry.
Yes I know without Ron, the Kings would have played more as a team, offensively that is.
However, this team would lack the defense to be a contender.
If our goal is to play as a team and lose in the playoffs then go that route.
Personally my goal is to win the whole thing and getting rid of Ron decreases greatly our chances of winning it all.

I don't mind pointing fingers (assigning blame). It all started with the Maloofs tinkering.
Definitely Musselman should shoulder most of the blame for last season.
Yes Ron has issues. All that being said,

Ron deserves another season given his abilities and Musselman's ineptness.

Ron is the type of player that can be a major piece on a championship team.

That's how valuable a player he is. And we have him.

In the end, it's worth the risk to hold on to him for one more season, and if he decides to opt out
after next year than oh well good riddance. We definitely shouldn't trade him for fodder
when 7 million could be off the books next summer and we can again sign another PF. J/K.

You guys are true Kings Fans as am I, I hope no one takes anything I say personally
as I don't mean to offend anyone.

I know most are respectful fans, we are still the best in the league, just don't have a whole lot
to cheer about right now.

Just stating my opinions and agreeing to disagree.

 

[6th]

No offense taken, 6'1_PF. We simply disagree on the way to achieve the same goal. Nice post, BTW.

 

[Superman]

Regarding him being a "nut",

What's nuttier, allowing the leader of your team convicted of a DUI to not be punished.
(There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.)

OR

Someone jumping in the stands and brawling, after being provoked by a fan throwing something at him (not to mention
being shoved in the throat by Ben Wallace after a supposed hard foul and after Wallace threw something at his head).
Then being suspended 73 games and losing 5 million in salary. BTW, after the foul and the shove to the throat he did
walk away.

If my point isn't clear, I'm not saying what Artest did was right, but what Musselman did IMO is worse.

And last that bad occurences in his past do not affect his value as a basketball player.

Ah, but they do. A basketball player only has value if he's on the court. You don't know if Ron is going to be on the court. He's unpredictable, volatile, temperamental... He's decided to retire three times in the past three years. You never know with Ron.

And, regarding his actions with the brawl, there is no justification for him running into the stands and beating a man up (didn't he attack the wrong man anyways?). Provoked or not, he was completely unjustified, erroneous, immoral, and just flat out WRONG. No two ways about it. He wasn't defending himself, he wasn't protecting a teammate. He flipped out, flew off the handle, and made an already bad situation worse.

(By the way, he walked away from Ben Wallace because Ben Wallace would have rolled him up, not because he was exercising some preeminent form of self-control. He didn't want to get his *** whooped.)

It doesn't matter what Eric Musselman did, for two reasons: 1) He wasn't a good basketball coach, as evidenced by his inability to get his team to play well, so there's no need to try to balance his off-court issues with his on-court talents, and 2) it doesn't change the fact that Ron is an unbalanced and volatile person who could, at any moment, ruin his career with one act. No one would be surprised if he grew horns and a tail, turned red and started throwing pitchforks at security guards.

Ron has his merits as a basketball player, and if there were no other factors to take into consideration, the Kings wouldn't be looking to move him at all. He would be considered a top 20 player in the League, would probably be close to getting a big extension, and we would be trying to build the team with him as a main cog. But those other factors make it too risky to keep him around for long, especially with all the other uncertainty the Kings have right now (the arena, the coach, the youth, salaries, etc.) As a player, he's top notch, but he is too unstable to take a huge risk on.

 

[Superman]

Ron deserves another season given his abilities and Musselman's ineptness.

It's not about what he deserves. It's about the fact that his negatives could easily overshadow his positives in the blink of an eye, and then we're stuck with him. There's a risk there that has to be considered, and a lot of us feel like, because of that risk, we should go ahead and move him now before that risk becomes reality.

If we're going to talk about what someone deserves, then get Rick Adelman back in Sacramento. He deserved another year plus, far more than Ron Artest deserves anything with the Kings, but that's not the way things go.

If Artest winds up getting moved, it will likely be to a team that has a good chance at winning a title within the next year or two (like Miami). He'll wind up in a better situation than he's in here, so we don't really have to feel sorry for him because he "deserved" another year because of Musselman's sorry-*** coaching.

The fans deserve a commitment to winning, a competitive and classy product on the floor, and honesty from the front office. Let's talk about that before we talk about Ron deserving another year.

 

[VF21]

Ron deserves another season given his abilities and Musselman's ineptness.

No, Ron doesn't deserve any special consideration because of his abilities and Musselman's ineptness. Artest is being paid millions to do a job. That's consideration enough.

Ron is the type of player that can be a major piece on a championship team.

That's how valuable a player he is. And we have him.

We aren't a championship-contending team.

In the end, it's worth the risk to hold on to him for one more season, and if he decides to opt out after next year than oh well good riddance. We definitely shouldn't trade him for fodder when 7 million could be off the books next summer and we can again sign another PF. J/K.

So, you would rather lose him for nothing by having him opt out than trade him for someone who could help us in the future? That makes no sense whatsoever.

You guys are true Kings Fans as am I, I hope no one takes anything I say personally as I don't mean to offend anyone.

I know most are respectful fans, we are still the best in the league, just don't have a whole lot to cheer about right now.

Just stating my opinions and agreeing to disagree.

I just truly hope we don't have to learn the lessons the way the Pacers did. The Kings franchise has suffered enough...

 

[Bricklayer]

We are rebuilding. Not only in theory, we have no choice. The only question is whether we continue to do it slow or dumb, or we actually try to speed it up. Given that any possible role for Ron as a "major piece" on a championship team is years and years away. So now you are talking about Ron not only having to hold it together, want to stay in town, not just retire etc. next season, but for years to come. Likely until he's 30+ and beginning to slip anyway, and until he;s working on the next big contract somebody has to risk with him.

Furthermore, if he's a major piece of a championship team, it would clearly be as a #2, Pippenlike, not a #1. Which would still make acquiring him remotely possible if you were a team with a #1, Jordanlike. Maybe. But given Ron Artest's delusions of grandeur he may very well not accept being Pippen, in which case talent or not, he becomes worthless in that role and a cancer. And certainly when you are a team not only without Jordan, but who's only real shot at getting Jordan is through the draft, where Ron both hurts you by driving your draft position into the pathetic tweens/teens area, and then would have to be asked to play Pippen to some kid, your odds ain't great.

And this is before we even get to the fact that Ron being a major piece on a championship team is entirely speculative, the sort of post that should have been made in the first 2 month honeymoon period after Ron arrived and was merely "wacky". The talent is perhaps there, but talent has never been remotely enough alone. Fact is that Ron Artest has been in the league 8 years now, and he has advnaced beyond the first round of the playoffs ONCE. And in the year when he did that, it was his own implosion under pressure that helped scuttle his team (the Pacers) in the playoffs. And then his legendary implosion only a few weeks into the next season which entirely scuttled the entire franchise. A deluded player who is an immense distraction to his own team isn't a major piece on a title team unless you;ve got both Jordan AND Pippen and a HOF coach to keep him partially in line (see Rodman). And its certainly not the sort of mess you stash in the closet as a rebuilding team just in case you might be contending 4-5 years down the line.

 

[Superman]

And its certainly not the sort of mess you stash in the closet as a rebuilding team just in case you might be contending 4-5 years down the line.

Especially not if you're paying him $9 or $10 million a year.