Artest to come off bench?

[HndsmCelt]

The point is that Ron's best efforts to hold his temper failed. Talk all day about his restraint, Ben's acts what "most guys would do" or what the fans did and in the end we are still left with a player who despite his best efforts lost controll once agian and this time went after fans. If folks want to belive he is changed, learned his lesson etc. fine go ahead, been hearing that about the nut job every seson for a while now. Heck said it my self once. At this point I don't see any indicationthat Artest is any better equiped to deal with his anger today than he was last year at this time.

 

[Kings113]

The guy hasn't done anything yet. I don't think he will either.

ahhhh....sounds like that microscope i was talking about....

remember something....ron was basically attacked by ben wallace with a throat jab....there are very few people that would just walk away from something like that...

but ron did....if he wouldnt have he probably wouldve returned alot earlier....if he woulda tore into ben like he wanted to and the fight on the court ensued, its most likely he woulda got 10 games or so...then went on about his business....

but because hes ron...and because hes looked at differently...and because he was trying to change his image....he walked away....something that most wouldnt do....

however, he was undoubtedly seething, as anyone would be....and yes, to then get pelted with a beer was more than he could take, GIVEN HIS STATE OF MIND AT THE TIME....

sorry if that somehow gets lost....people wanna categorize rons reaction about the beer....the beer only played a small role in things....

ron proved he could show more restraint than most....which he probably will have to continue to do....as u say...he will be a target for some morons....however, it appears hes even better suited to do so now...

now is this all fair???hardly...but its the result of all the things hes done over his career...

so look for ron to deal with whatever comes his way this year....will there be controversy....yup....will he get involved in extracurricular activity? possibly...

but dont look for anything other than maybe a 1 or 2 game suspension for an illadvised flagrant....other than that ron will be ok....and wreak havoc on the league....the kind of havoc that generally helps the pacers versus hinders them....

like i said, anyone that believes otherwise probably has an ulterior motive....lets face it...theres alot of people out there that want to see him fail....whether its so they can say i told u so like this poster or a teams fans that dont want to face potentially the best team in the league with ron at the forefront...

either way....sure hope people give the proper respect due when the end of the season comes and ron and the pacers have proven alot of people wrong...

Agreed. Also, after the Ben push, he was in the middle of calming down and getting away from the situation, while having just played 35 minutes of hard-played 'ball.

 

[foretaz]

The point is that Ron's best efforts to hold his temper failed. Talk all day about his restraint, Ben's acts what "most guys would do" or what the fans did and in the end we are still left with a player who despite his best efforts lost controll once agian and this time went after fans. If folks want to belive he is changed, learned his lesson etc. fine go ahead, been hearing that about the nut job every seson for a while now. Heck said it my self once. At this point I don't see any indicationthat Artest is any better equiped to deal with his anger today than he was last year at this time.

ahhh...ok...

so ur one of those guys who believe people are incapable of change or rehabilitation....

nevermind the fact that ron wouldnt come near an nba arena if he was "no better equipped to deal with his anger today the he was last year at this time"

david stern, the simons, and pacers management would make certain of that...

do u really believe that david stern would let ron near a court without him being much better prepared to deal with difficult situations???

or do u believe that undergoing anger management, seeing a therapist, and working thru the reasons why ron has impulse reaction problems, all are worthless and have zero impact????

this attitude, or should i say, this prejudice is all too prominent in the society we live in....its born out of ignorance and naivety...

ron is not the first person to not react properly under a distressing circumstance....all that proves is hes human....the fact that he has a history of questionable behavior when facing stressful situations only indicates there are issues that have not been resolved and certainly cause him to react to situations in a less than desirable manner....

thankfully, these types of situations are not incurable....just as there is treatment for other ailments, rons problems are also treatable....

and its a safe bet that he would never sniff an nba floor without undergoing treatment and specialists confirming some progress being made...it will be a long process, most likely, but it will be worth it....mostly for rons quality of life, as carrying around the kind of luggage that causes people to react the way ron does is no fun at all....

and thats a good thing....

 

[HndsmCelt]

Some people change, most do not. Ron's suspension was not open ended it was one seaosn with no provisions for anger management, therepy or Stern's confidence in a changed state of mind. One season and he is back weather he has been dilignetly working on his issues or beating corpses like Critical Bill... As of yet I have not read or seen anything to indicate that Ron has done any of the work you want to attribute to him.

As for the term prejudice I would argue that I am not the prejudice one here. I am hardly judging Ron on anything EXCEPT his own actions, to judege his future actions based on anything else IS naivily prejudiced bassed on unstated elements.

For his sake and the sake of those arround him I hope your assertions about Ron getting help are ture but like I said I have not read about or seen anything to support it. Other than the court ordered program from his criminal trial I have heard of nothing and I am not sure why THIS course of court ordered anger management would be any more successfull than the sessions that were ordered after he threw the monitor, or the seres he was ordered in to while in college.

 

[Fillmoe]

man this is played out! everytime artest is mentioned someone has to bring up the fact that hes gonna start punching fans in the middle of a rebound or something.... let it go already...... this thread has nothing to do with the brawl its about artest coming off the bench, can we keep it that way?

 

[HndsmCelt]

this thread has nothing to do with the brawl its about artest coming off the bench, can we keep it that way?

Of course we can... makes afor a rather short and uninteresting thread but as you like it.

 

[foretaz]

Some people change, most do not. Ron's suspension was not open ended it was one seaosn with no provisions for anger management, therepy or Stern's confidence in a changed state of mind. One season and he is back weather he has been dilignetly working on his issues or beating corpses like Critical Bill... As of yet I have not read or seen anything to indicate that Ron has done any of the work you want to attribute to him.

As for the term prejudice I would argue that I am not the prejudice one here. I am hardly judging Ron on anything EXCEPT his own actions, to judege his future actions based on anything else IS naivily prejudiced bassed on unstated elements.

For his sake and the sake of those arround him I hope your assertions about Ron getting help are ture but like I said I have not read about or seen anything to support it. Other than the court ordered program from his criminal trial I have heard of nothing and I am not sure why THIS course of court ordered anger management would be any more successfull than the sessions that were ordered after he threw the monitor, or the seres he was ordered in to while in college.

actually you are incorrect about a couple of things....

the suspension was for the remainder of the season...plus he was not guaranteed participation in this season....he had to be reinstated by the commissioner....and though not really publicized, there were conditions to that reinstatement....one of which was anger management counseling...

if u noticed, with regard to rons recent trial, the anger management counseling was waived as it was deemed the counseling he was already involved with was adequate....

and realize something....the pacers franchise took a huge hit last year....and anyone who thinks for a moment that it would just be business as usual this year, without addressing any issues, is just plain naive....

as far as the initial statement regarding most people not changing...u might be right....most people dont change....because they dont want to...and therefore make no effort to....

thats not the case with ron, as has been pretty evident....ron has behavioral issues....based on problems in his troublesome youth....maybe it took something like what happened last year to provide the motivation to all the interested parties, but either way, things are definitely being done differently where hes concerned....

and any reasonable individual owes it to ron or anyone else in a similar situation to recognize the effort being made and acknowledge the results....pigeonholing people and stereotyping only perpetuates the problem....and one can only hope that an individual that has these sorts of feelings never is on the other side, needing the help and support of others to alter anything in their own life....

 

[loopymitch]

^In response to part of what you said. He had a troubled childhood, OK so do a lot of people but that doesn't mean they go around hitting people and being violent. He's got a control problem on and off the court and I hope he's got help for it, but when people blame that kind of behavior on their troubled youth it irritates me. Leave the past behind and move on. You can't change what happened but you have to learn to deal with it and not let it affect you as an adult. If not our society would be even more crazy than it is now.
I'm not trying to minimise what happened to him in any way but is it an excuse? Not IMO!

 

[Bricklayer]

^In response to part of what you said. He had a troubled childhood, OK so do a lot of people but that doesn't mean they go around hitting people and being violent. He's got a control problem on and off the court and I hope he's got help for it, but when people blame that kind of behavior on their troubled youth it irritates me. Leave the past behind and move on. You can't change what happened but you have to learn to deal with it and not let it affect you as an adult. If not our society would be even more crazy than it is now.
I'm not trying to minimise what happened to him in any way but is it an excuse? Not IMO!

Not an excuse, but very much factually highly correlated. Rough childhood = much more chance for a rough person at adulthood. Think the appropriate way to look at that is not to deny the correlation and call it an "excuse", but rather say, ok, that may be the cause, but we can't change that. And now, today, no matter why he's troubled, the fact is he is, and it has to be dealt with. Its not acceptable whether we understand how it reached this point or not.

 

[foretaz]

brick touched on this...but let me make it abundantly clear....

noone is using the childhood as an excuse...not at all....

but as was clearly said, many have bad childhoods and move on....

in some peoples cases they never properly deal with the issues, therefore theyre not resolved, and therefore theyre not really able to move on....as these issues keep resurfacing in the form of new problems....

thats why u go to therapy....to work thru things....so that u can move on....and not be haunted by ur past....and most importantly to gain control over ur actions...

incidentally, rons off court actions have not been an issue....for all intents and purposes his problems are a direct result of actions on the court....

just please be clear...noone is making an excuse or condoning the actions...but finding out why they happened is the first step....ron artest has an impulse reaction problem....which roots go back to his childhood....and because of his superior abilities on the court, these issues werent dealt with and moreover were allowed to cultivate themselves by people who attempted to just bandaid the problem while taking advantage of his basketball expertise....

sooner or later u gotta face the music....either that, or u have something like the brawl...or in some cases, something much worse..

 

[SoupIsGood]

At this point I don't see any indicationthat Artest is any better equiped to deal with his anger today than he was last year at this time.

As others have said, Stern has made Ron undergo extensive anger managemant. He'll be better equipped no doubt, we'll have to see if it matters.

Also, you say you use past behavior to predict future behavior. Two seasons ago he made it the entire year without major incident, so he's proven he can do that.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Well it nice to know that the NBA and Pacers org requested Ron get help and that they have faith in their boy. I do honestly hope he is at peace and has ut his troubles behind him, but if I were going to place a bet... well let's just say I have very few professional athleets willing and able to make the kinds of changes Ron is facing. Few normal civilians either and the ones that do usually have to loose everything first, it's just a very sad course of affairs. Trust me on this I know this from personal and profesional experiance.

 

[SoupIsGood]

Well it nice to know that the NBA and Pacers org requested Ron get help and that they have faith in their boy. I do honestly hope he is at peace and has ut his troubles behind him, but if I were going to place a bet... well let's just say I have very few professional athleets willing and able to make the kinds of changes Ron is facing. Few normal civilians either and the ones that do usually have to loose everything first, it's just a very sad course of affairs. Trust me on this I know this from personal and profesional experiance.

Yes there is no doubt that he's still got an uphill battle in front of him.