Artest for Nene??
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Elektrik
Starter
Exactly...and that is why this trade will not happen.
KingsCitizen
Starter
With Petrie's statement, I think Ron will be gone before trade deadline. It's much better this way that at least we get someone for one of our team's stars than just let him opt out and we never get one in return.
Plus there's just 2 feasible options to get rid of KT through trades. It's either moving out with Bibby or with Artest.
Ron is just an 8 million guy but if we can ship him out with KT, it's worth 16 million off the cap. So I'd rather trade him now with the KT package than just get rid of 8 million next year and still keeping a useless 8 million guy pouting in the bench for 3 more years.
Plus there's just 2 feasible options to get rid of KT through trades. It's either moving out with Bibby or with Artest.
Ron is just an 8 million guy but if we can ship him out with KT, it's worth 16 million off the cap. So I'd rather trade him now with the KT package than just get rid of 8 million next year and still keeping a useless 8 million guy pouting in the bench for 3 more years.
creAtivetfh
Starter
is the artest for kleiza and najera being discussed in this thread?
najera only has 1 year remaining and i see kleiza becoming very similar to Hedo is now
najera only has 1 year remaining and i see kleiza becoming very similar to Hedo is now
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Please explain how.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I know it isn't difficult. I don't want starter's stats cherry picked from bench stats to understand a player. In fact it makes him impossible to compare with other players where we don't use that statistical method.
It sounds like he's come off the bench most of the time this year. That along with his cancer worries me. His salary will bury our cap space until 2012 and if that is so, he better be damn good and not as one person said, "high risk, high reward." I'd rather let Ron opt out.
This is the trade that could put our rebuilding on hold for 4 more years. I'm not saying it will put it on hold but the trade is very risky.
He only came off the bench because he had surgery on his hand. Just like Bibby came off the bench his 1st few games back. Coming into this year he was penciled in as the starter over Kenyon.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Would you make the trade? That's what it comes down to. Salary, cancer, injuries, and all. I might do it but I think I'd see if there was a better deal. I don't see the same urgency some people see. I doubt very much that a definitive answer as to the possible success of the treatment of his cancer will be known before the trade deadline. The course of treatment might not even be completed.
Usually cancer is talked about in 5 year survival rates.
At stake is $4 mil - $12.5 mil (Ron's remaining contract) for $50 mil (Nene's remaining contract). People had a fit over Mikki's $17 mil contract which committed us to 2 years as we could buy out the third year.
If Ron stays with us an extra year, three contracts could be up at the same time: Bibby, Artest, and Mikki.
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KingsCitizen
Starter
You can do the math for me if u want accurate figures.
Otherwise, please state which logic of my statement you want to be justified.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
You can do the math for me if u want accurate figures.
Otherwise, please state which logic of my statement you want to be justified.
I want it justified that trading $16 mil of contracts frees up $16 mil in cap space. If you don't understand salary cap rules, here's a link. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
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They'd have to toss in a 1st round pick to get me to do it. Or take Kenny for Najera if they just want to upgrade their team and get that lockdown perimeter defender. If they do one of those things then I make the trade. Nene should recover from the cancer pretty soon, atleast that's what I read. The tumor is supposedly already gone and he may need to undergo chemotherapy for a little while but he should be fine. I read about it the other day. He is a young big man who went toe to toe with Duncan last year in the playoffs(did the best job defensively on him, as well as putting up 15/8 vs him). If it weren't for the injuries this year he would be having a great year.
KingsCitizen
Starter
Appreciate the link, Glenn. But it can happen that trading $16 mil contract will free up $16mil off the cap if we get expiring contracts in return for the trade. So by the next season, there would be enough space to sign a big time player, maybe even if his worth $16 mil (considering the rest of the team's salary will remain at a linear increase ). Sure if we get Nene and his salary in return for Artest and Thomas it won't be $16 mil off since we still have to pay Nene $10mil per year + somebody who will be packaged to match salaries. But my statement wasn't sticking to the Nene thing but a general way of saying what we can possibly get out of an Artest + KT trade.
Again, this is a general assumption. If it gets through your nerves being so inaccurate, please shed your light or you can just ignore this and consider it as another pathetic, brainless post by a 3rd grader Kings fan.
If a deal was on the table that would swap Nene and Artest, I think that would be about the best you can expect. NY is not giving up Lee. They aren't winning anything this year and will just sign Artest this summer if they want him. Miami can not give really give us anything. 2/3rds of the league will not touch Artest with a 10 foot pole. We would be giving up a cancer with an expiring contract and getting a real power forward in return, something we haven't had since Webber was here. The downside with Nene is the contract and the injuries. Worst case being he never realizes his potential and misses good chunks of the season. He basically becomes another KT. Best case is he turns into a dominant power forward and we become a competitive team again. A move like this would at least be an indication that we might go somewhere in the future. If I was Petrie I would try to get a 1st round draft pick out of the deal as well, though if it came down to the deadline I would do this deal without it.
The bottom line is that Artest is going to walk this summer, and Petrie has been horrible about getting anything in return for players walking. Whether we trade Artest or not, the only thing we will be able to do next summer is sign more pointless mid level exception guys anyway. If we get Nene we at least have a shot at being relevant again. The year after that, even with Nene I think we would still be under the cap with Thomas and Bibby coming of the books. The year after that we lose Miller and SAR and we are left with Nene, Martin, and Salmons with guaranteed contracts. At that point, we would could actually start putting together something resembling a team competing for a championship. We would have Nene and Martin, both in there primes and under contract. If Petrie is smart and doesnt waste money on pointless signings we would have some cap space to sign at least one big free agent.
If it doesn't work out, and Nene becomes our new KT/SAR, we would not be in any worse of a situation than we are right now. We would still be under the cap in a few years, and dealing with one crappy contract is not going to prevent this franchise from moving forward. We are really only risking future cap flexibility, considering that this team is not going to be competing for anything worthwhile for a few years anyway. For this franchise, I think the risk is worth the potential rewards.
The bottom line is that Artest is going to walk this summer, and Petrie has been horrible about getting anything in return for players walking. Whether we trade Artest or not, the only thing we will be able to do next summer is sign more pointless mid level exception guys anyway. If we get Nene we at least have a shot at being relevant again. The year after that, even with Nene I think we would still be under the cap with Thomas and Bibby coming of the books. The year after that we lose Miller and SAR and we are left with Nene, Martin, and Salmons with guaranteed contracts. At that point, we would could actually start putting together something resembling a team competing for a championship. We would have Nene and Martin, both in there primes and under contract. If Petrie is smart and doesnt waste money on pointless signings we would have some cap space to sign at least one big free agent.
If it doesn't work out, and Nene becomes our new KT/SAR, we would not be in any worse of a situation than we are right now. We would still be under the cap in a few years, and dealing with one crappy contract is not going to prevent this franchise from moving forward. We are really only risking future cap flexibility, considering that this team is not going to be competing for anything worthwhile for a few years anyway. For this franchise, I think the risk is worth the potential rewards.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Mikki Moore is a 33 year old journeyman nobody who always will be a journeyman nobody. He does absolutely nothing for your team's future other than steal minutes from your kids. Nice cheerleader for a contending squad at $1-$2 mil a year. A you have to be kidding me signing for a bad team needing to rebuild.
Meanwhile Nene might be your 25 yr old PF of the future. No comparison of the two situations whatsoever. One is a blatant waste of money for a blatantly shortsighted purpose (win now), the other is a gambit for the future. Gambit may prove foolish -- there is certainly risk -- but its a move made for a brighter tommorow, which is all that ANY move should be made for at this point.
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Packt
Starter
I would approve of this deal. There are big risks as Nene has been injury prone but he is like Ron in good ways. Nene is a big tough guy, won't back down from anyone and can hang with the best of them. I don't think he'll be a franchise big but he can be a very good role player for us. The most stupefying thing about him though, is that he isn't a better rebounder.
He will be expensive, but he can help in the short term, and is young enough to fit into the future. Wheter we can nab him or not I wish him well with the medical stuff.
He will be expensive, but he can help in the short term, and is young enough to fit into the future. Wheter we can nab him or not I wish him well with the medical stuff.
Rockmeister
All-Star
In the article in today's bee, it said Petrie is thought to be interested in a package consisting of Linas Kleiza and Eduardo Najera. Nothing was mentioned about Nene.
It appears to me that no one is asking a fundamental question...why is Denver willing to give up Nene for Ron's expiring contract when Ron's made numerous references to playing in NY again? Denver only has eight guys signed for next year so they have roster spots. And if all of their cap space is dominated by their stars (leaving little left to fill roster spots), how can the addition of Ron, who will want more money since he's vastly underpaid for his playing worth, help in that regard? To me it means Denver has given up on Nene and needs his cap space next year to fill out the roster without taking on Ron's contract/extension. And this is why I said earlier that I think Petrie is trying to pressure NY or others into thinking that we may deal with Denver but that it's really just a ploy. Tough to drum up interest to turn to your advantage if there isn't any interest expressed yet.
Here's the text:
Unlike the Kings, they're in a playoff push, not a rebuilding phase. Four of their starters are 30 years or older, limiting the time to capitalize on a nucleus of Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony and Marcus Camby. Artest, who by NBA standards is paid a relatively reasonable $7.4 million, would immediately improve their perimeter defense, enhance their low-post game and add experience in the tightly contested Western Conference.
In return, Petrie is thought to be interested in a package consisting of young players and veterans with expiring contracts, including promising forward Linas Kleiza ($2.82 million through next season) and Eduardo Najera, whose $4.9 million deal expires this summer. He also remains intrigued by the New York Knicks' David Lee, an Isiah Thomas favorite who is said to be unavailable. Or he could simply allow Artest to complete his contract and pursue a sign-and-trade during the offseason.
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/679220.html
Heuge
Starter
That is a crappy, no guts move, and would be exactly the type of trade that makes me jump on the fire petrie bandwagon.Wow Petrie is interested in Kleiza. There is a shocker.
That's for the Kenny Thomas swap portion of the deal.
Linas Kleiza's not a bad player. But that trade doesn't open up more playing time for Salmons or Garcia and it doesn't help to fill the void at PF, so what's the point? I bet Denver is pushing Kleiza and Najera instead of Nene, and if Geoff feels like he needs to make a deal, any deal, maybe he goes for it. If they include a first round pick that's a reasonable return for an expiring contract but the loss of talent there is enormous on our side and without getting any size or potential in return, well it would look like just about every other trade or signing we've made in the past 3 years. Not good.
Nene
If you look at the stats from the second half of last year when Nene' moved into the starting lineup and avg 30+ mins he was awesome. What we'd be trading is someone we don't see long term, (and hopefully if KT is sent) and someone who can't play for someone who is potentially very good and young plus lot of potential in Kleiza and a hardworking Najera. True the injuries are troubling but as said before it's ACL which is fully recoverable especially in big men, and the hand deal is a freak deal, and the cancer is likely a non issue after this year (he likely will not contribute much this year as I can't envision him not going for chemo to increase his cure rate) and it will take a lot out of him. It's his POTENTIAL that Petrie likes, and the upside over what we gots.....
If you look at the stats from the second half of last year when Nene' moved into the starting lineup and avg 30+ mins he was awesome. What we'd be trading is someone we don't see long term, (and hopefully if KT is sent) and someone who can't play for someone who is potentially very good and young plus lot of potential in Kleiza and a hardworking Najera. True the injuries are troubling but as said before it's ACL which is fully recoverable especially in big men, and the hand deal is a freak deal, and the cancer is likely a non issue after this year (he likely will not contribute much this year as I can't envision him not going for chemo to increase his cure rate) and it will take a lot out of him. It's his POTENTIAL that Petrie likes, and the upside over what we gots.....
thedofd
Bench
In assessing the Gasol trade in his Q&A, ESPN columnist J.J. Adande had the following exchange with a Denver fan:
Randy (Tucson, AZ): Hey J.A., Realistically do the Nuggets have a shot at an NBA Title with a healthy current roster? If not who do you think they need or is it time to start over and build around Melo again?
J.A. Adande: No, I don't see this group making a title run. But there's some talk about them trading for Ron Artest...if that were the case it gets real interesting, because perimeter defense is such a weakness of theirs and he would shore it up, plus give them yet another scoring option. And I think the arms race is on in the West with this Gasol deal (bold added for emphasis)
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19107
Thanks to the Gasol trade, any Western Conference team that fancies itself a contender is going to have to seriously consider whether it's good to go or whether a move is necessary. This could put a premium on someone like Artest. Let us pray.
Randy (Tucson, AZ): Hey J.A., Realistically do the Nuggets have a shot at an NBA Title with a healthy current roster? If not who do you think they need or is it time to start over and build around Melo again?
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19107
Thanks to the Gasol trade, any Western Conference team that fancies itself a contender is going to have to seriously consider whether it's good to go or whether a move is necessary. This could put a premium on someone like Artest. Let us pray.
beb0p
Starter
Seriously, some of the same people who blamed GP for not predicting SAR's knee problems are now inching to get one of the most un-healthy players in the NBA with a fat contract? Let me just say I'm so glad Petrie is still running the show.
His cancer may not affect him down the road, his past injuries are flukes, he may be very healthy next season; okay I know the possibilities, but there is NO certainties.
Nene is the kind of gamble that can !@#$ us for the next decade! Remember Derek Smith?
And if Nene pans out, then what? Is he a franchise player? No. Will he make us a top team? No. At his best, Nene propels us into a 6th seed. Woohoo.
He is a low reward/high risk guy. Give me Linas Kleiza over Nene any day.
His cancer may not affect him down the road, his past injuries are flukes, he may be very healthy next season; okay I know the possibilities, but there is NO certainties.
Nene is the kind of gamble that can !@#$ us for the next decade! Remember Derek Smith?
And if Nene pans out, then what? Is he a franchise player? No. Will he make us a top team? No. At his best, Nene propels us into a 6th seed. Woohoo.
He is a low reward/high risk guy. Give me Linas Kleiza over Nene any day.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
As an aside, while you are busy thanking god that Petrie is running the show so that he won't get Nene, you might want to consider that Petrie has been after Nene for years -- first tried to get him with Mobley as I recall -- and apparently still is.
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