Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?

Will The Kings actually commit to a rebuild for once?

  • Total voters
    53
Kingster said:
Allen Stiles is talking about Clifford, saying he's not getting better because of the mass of guards and the chaotic minutes. Actually, Stiles doesn't quite have it right. Clifford looks to me like he's getting worse. He started off the season looking confident in his game and his shot, but no more. Who would be? He's got vets freezing him out. And when he gets the paltry incoherent and inconsistent minutes he does, he has vets pounding the heck out of the ball and going iso, which doesn't behoove Clifford at all. If someone wanted to devise the perfect conditions to give Clifford a mind-F, they've found it on the Kings.
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The fact that Demar just played 39 mins yesterday is a joke. This team is unserious in every way.
I've called for them to immediately waive Russ and Kings fans think that's an awful idea. I'll never understand it. Russ should be waived, Schroder should be traded, Sabonis traded and Demar/LaVine should be playing no more than 20mpg. They aren't part of the future and we aren't winning.
Maxime/Precious
Keegan
Nique/Demar
Keon/LaVine
Carter/Monk

IDC who gets upset this is how a real team progresses. Let Keegan take 20 shots a game for better or worse. See what the hell you have in this and last years 1sts. Tell Demar and Lavine we are working our best to trade them and they can go home while we figure it out if they don't want to have a small bench role.
 
The_Jamal said:
If we go back to SL, where Nique/Carter were the primary initiators, what stood out was Nique wanted to play within a team concept. It was move the ball, make the right read. And a big reason why that team had success in SL is because... they actually played together on offense

The NBA club has become

1. Russ in a PnR with a big. This has been good for Raynaud and pretty much the only real "team ball" action we've gotten all season. Monk has been one of the best PnR passers in basketball over the last 3 seasons and he's pretty much fully abandoned it to jack shots along with the rest of the vets.

2. Clear out the side for DDR to ISO or go set a ball-screen and let that guy take the possession. No matter who it is Dennis/DDR/LaVine/Russ/Monk. This has lead to the young guys to really looked rushed on the offensive end; because they know they're not going to get the ball back very often. Along with inconsistent PT and minutes.
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Everything Christie has been preaching would actually happen if the Kings front office were able to move DeRozan, LaVine, Westbrook and possibly Shroder.

Defensive hustle? We've seen that Carter, Keon, Clifford, Murray, and Raynaud will give real effort on that end.
Move the ball? Again, when you don't have ball stoppers and you have willing passers it will happen.

The team will still be terrible, likely worse than it is now, but you get to develop and evaluate the young players and actually play the type of basketball the coach and GM talk about wanting to play.
 
TaxMan said:
Outside of the playing time issues, as the season progresses my biggest gripe with Christie have been his comments that he's not calling a lot of plays. He has old vets, that he is overplaying, and letting them make decisions on the court that are clearly not in the best interest of the team -- either with respect to current wins, or growth of you young guys. At this point, my only conclusion is Doug is either a terrible coach, or he is completely intimidated by the elderly "superstars" on the team. I'm actually pretty disappointed because last year I really did believe that Doug had potential as a head coach going forward. Now, feels like he is just completely lost.
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I get the impression that NBA head coaches calling out plays is more the exception than the norm now, but most do drill their team on the offensive concepts that they want them to implement and have a lead playmaker on the floor who is capable of getting the rest of the players organized. We're suffering from a lack of clarity on who the lead playmaker is ever since Dennis Schröder got himself benched and also an over-reliance on iso-heavy players like Westbrook, LaVine, and DeRozan to "figure it out" instead of playing within a set system.

But I remain unwilling to lay the bulk of the blame at Coach Christie's feet considering the roster itself doesn't make sense. I don't know that any offensive guru is going to be able to structure an effective offense around these three guys with a journeyman big and a "stand in the corner" shooter sharing the floor for the majority of the game.
 
Srzly said:
He used to, but not the last few games. He jogs back on defense and does a lot of standing around, not fighting through screens or closing out.

I was a big fan of his effort when he first joined, but that effort on defense has quickly faded. He might have a few possessions where he tries but I encourage you to watch him closely the next few games. He is definitely not putting in that same effort anymore.
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He hustles on offense. He absolutely coasts on the defensive end and has endless defensive breakdowns the entire game. I remember one possession vs IND where in crunch time, he legitimately did not move his feet at all to let Nembhard get right past him and left Raynaud on an island with no help
 
The_Jamal said:
If we go back to SL, where Nique/Carter were the primary initiators, what stood out was Nique wanted to play within a team concept. It was move the ball, make the right read. And a big reason why that team had success in SL is because... they actually played together on offense

The NBA club has become

1. Russ in a PnR with a big. This has been good for Raynaud and pretty much the only real "team ball" action we've gotten all season. Monk has been one of the best PnR passers in basketball over the last 3 seasons and he's pretty much fully abandoned it to jack shots along with the rest of the vets.

2. Clear out the side for DDR to ISO or go set a ball-screen and let that guy take the possession. No matter who it is Dennis/DDR/LaVine/Russ/Monk. This has lead to the young guys to really looked rushed on the offensive end; because they know they're not going to get the ball back very often. Along with inconsistent PT and minutes.
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Exactly. And now poor Nique is out there trying to be something he's not - an iso specialist. I think highly of both Max and Clifford, but their different minutes and production on the floor has nothing to do with the difference in their talent; it is all the result of chance. Max benefits from Sabonis going down, and now Eubanks, with Westbrook and Monk using him as a safety valve in pnr. Nique, on the other hand, is the victim of the redundancy of iso-heavy guard vets that both reduce his minutes and touches on the floor when he gets minutes. If Christie was a strong coach, he could mitigate the influence of those vets, but we all know Christie is not a strong coach.
 
Srzly said:
He used to, but not the last few games. He jogs back on defense and does a lot of standing around, not fighting through screens or closing out.

I was a big fan of his effort when he first joined, but that effort on defense has quickly faded. He might have a few possessions where he tries but I encourage you to watch him closely the next few games. He is definitely not putting in that same effort anymore.
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And Westbrook's assists are deceiving. A guy can totally hog the ball with dribble dribble dribble to augment his assist and point totals with the end result of killing the entire offense. I'd much prefer an unselfish player who is willing to get the untabulated hockey-assist to have the entire team benefit.
 
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Srzly said:
100% accurate.

I’d also add a third point:

The vets all rest on the defensive end, making the young guys work extra hard on that end, so that the vets can save all of their effort/energy for scoring.
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Yeah, the young guys are quickly learning there are two sets of rules - the vets with high guaranteed contracts and the others. Not exactly the cultural identity that I would hope for.
 
TaxMan said:
Outside of the playing time issues, as the season progresses my biggest gripe with Christie have been his comments that he's not calling a lot of plays. He has old vets, that he is overplaying, and letting them make decisions on the court that are clearly not in the best interest of the team -- either with respect to current wins, or growth of you young guys. At this point, my only conclusion is Doug is either a terrible coach, or he is completely intimidated by the elderly "superstars" on the team. I'm actually pretty disappointed because last year I really did believe that Doug had potential as a head coach going forward. Now, feels like he is just completely lost.
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Remember when Christie went down to SoCal to chum it up with DDR and LaVine? It looked to me that he wanted to form a bond with the vets, to have them like him, to get them on his side so to speak. I didn't like it then because it seemed to me he was coming from a place of weakness rather than strength. From what I've seen so far, it hasn't helped him any.
 
Kingster said:
Remember when Christie went down to SoCal to chum it up with DDR and LaVine? It looked to me that he wanted to form a bond with the vets, to have them like him, to get them on his side so to speak. I didn't like it then because it seemed to me he was coming from a place of weakness rather than strength. From what I've seen so far, it hasn't helped him any.
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Nah reading into it too much.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Here’s the original paragraph that was aggregated:

“The Kings are struggling with the likes of Murray and veterans Domantas Sabonis, Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan and Russell Westbrook on their roster. Sources told Andscape that there is a disconnect between some veteran Kings players and Christie and his coaching staff.”
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With or without verification of being said, it's hard to argue this as anything but true.
 
Shaqfuey said:
With or without verification of being said, it's hard to argue this as anything but true.
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I'm not sure about Russ though. I do think he'll get moved at the deadline when someone wants cheap reinforcements but I don't think he is the prime target for a December or January move.
 
The_Jamal said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2001130356825899184

Sure Doug, I'll believe it when I see it.

Also,

"For Keegan to develop, For Nique to develop, For Max to develop, for Dylan to develop"

Giant spotlight onto what this org thinks of Keon and Carter. Wow.
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For this to happen, these vets either need to be dealt and sent away or they come off the bench with whatever minutes leftover. Nique needs the ball in his hands so he can create. Keegan needs to be the alpha or just another guy who will move the ball. Seems like you would want to see what Carter can do when given the keys to the car. Instead of just saying, I didn’t draft him so he has to go.
Give me Plowden as well. Zero reason not too
 
The_Jamal said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2001130356825899184

Sure Doug, I'll believe it when I see it.

Also,

"For Keegan to develop, For Nique to develop, For Max to develop, for Dylan to develop"

Giant spotlight onto what this org thinks of Keon and Carter. Wow.
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Or him. Either way, the "org" is about to look awfully stupid if they don't think in the totality of the youth. Kings always thinking right, but choosing wrong. If Perry is THAT petty then we're doomed as fans because he's choosing his own ego over consensus.
 
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ESP47 said:
Well good thing they got even older, spent needless money and ignored the youth development for a few months before realizing what us plebs on an internet forum already knew during the summer.
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I don’t think they are pivoting, Perry has said the plan from the beginning that this year was about establishing the identity and if they win great. He added guys who he think help establish the culture and mentor the young guys. Deebo, Russ and even Dennis the Hated have been beneficial in different ways. I watched the Houston broadcast last night and they were raving about Schroder’s time with the Rockets and how hard he plays.

I’m not happy with the way Carter has been handled but I’m hopeful he gets run towards the end of this season.
 
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