Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I don’t. I found the baseball free agent system horrible. And know as I have gotten older and my eyes suck I went to a game at Fenway and struggled to see the ball. It was like why bother

So you're just a casual baseball fan with no vested rooting interest? Understood (and there's no shame in that at all!!!)...

 

[hrdboild]

So is it safe to say that you prefer/enjoy to watch more defensive-minded teams than you do offensive-minded ones?

I definitely prefer to be the team dictating the terms of engagement. Usually that means I lean toward preferring a defensive-minded team -- and since I'm a fan of the Sacramento Kings and they have almost exclusively had the opposite mentality that's mostly what I tend to talk about on this board. But I have also seen teams like Charlotte and Orlando consistently struggle for the exact opposite reason -- because they prefer to draft defenders and can't figure out how to fit them into an offensive system that works at the NBA level. So there is such a thing as being too defensive-minded.

So what I will say instead is that I want to watch a highly physical team that forces mismatches as often as possible. If they're doing that primarily on offense I don't have a problem with it because presumably 50% of the time you're on offense anyway, right? But it can't just be "I score, you score" either. That's not a reliable way to win 60% or more of your games. If you want to lead with offense that approach needs to include clock management skills. You need to be able to slow the game down and burn clock when you have a lead but score quickly and efficiently when you're trying to eat into a deficit. And I really react poorly to the outside-in style of offense which has become en vogue in the modern NBA because unless you have Steph Curry on your team, it seems to me to be a highly luck-dependent strategy.

In order to dictate the terms of engagement you need to be forcing the other team to react to how you want to play. A team like Milwaukee, for instance, can just run Giannis right up the middle until you commit to the double team which then sets them up to get easy looks from the perimeter. If they led off with the three point barrage they wouldn't have the same 4 on 3 advantage that they get passing out of those double teams. What frustrated me about the Beam Team offense is that they really only had one way of playing and if a team committed to running our shooters off their spots or blowing up the dribble hand off there was no alternative and we would settle for bad shots. We didn't have anyone who could force a double like Giannis except Fox when he went into 4th quarter hero mode, and even then he was only effective when he got the foul calls which he often did not.

This feels a little all over the place so let me wrap it up like this... My favorite Kings squad that I've personally watched was the 2005-2006 squad in Rick Adelman's last year. They ranked 11th in offensive rating and 12th in defensive rating and weren't quite good enough to get past the Duncan/Parker/Ginobili Spurs in the first round but they came closest to playing the type of basketball I like to watch. Maybe that team played too much of an inside the arc offense to work in this current context, but what I liked about that squad is that they would come down the court and run the same play 10 times in a row until the other team showed that they could stop it and usually they couldn't. And then on the other end we had a Defensive Player of the Year winner to quarterback the defense and enough big bodies to contest everything in the paint. It was simple barebones basketball but what works is often simple.

 

[sactowndog]

Two guards who aren’t creators you’re not winning without a lead guard or a wing creator. I’m taking brown and the kid from Virgina tech over Wilson and other foward’s not named boozer

Sure I get the theory and maybe it works if you commit to a multi year tank. But your forwards are not going to slide like Haliburton did.

 

[sactowndog]

So you're just a casual baseball fan with no vested rooting interest? Understood (and there's no shame in that at all!!!)...

Not sure I even would go that far. Watched the World Series this year and that was only to watch Ohtani.

 

[gunks]

Ya Nique is a perfect modern day positionless player. I think the franchise likes him more than Keon, so I'd slot him as the starting 2 and Keon as the backup, he can easily play 3-4 spots in today's NBA.

As for Sabonis, I don't think he can be the rebuild vet. His game is too specific, and then we'd have to keep fitting players around what he likes to do. In a perfect world, the rebuild center is a rim running shot blocker. Sabonis also enjoys winning, you see how upset hes been just since last deadline. He won't be content floating through 20 win seasons. Opposite of someone like Zach who is just here to put up his numbers and W or L makes no difference.

I dunno, I feel like if we get nightly triple double Beam Team Domas back he could be perfect for a tanking team that wants to get a lot of shots for the youngsters. He's going to pass and rebound, set a good example by playing hard every night, but with his lack of interior defense he's not the type of guy to really push the W/L column up as the best vet presence on a team.

If he wants out though then it would be best to get what we can for him. I don't really want another sullen jerk half assing it after our last few Fox seasons. That was tough to watch.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Not sure I even would go that far. Watched the World Series this year and that was only to watch Ohtani.

Gotcha! Again, no shame in that at all...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don’t. I found the baseball free agent system horrible. And know as I have gotten older and my eyes suck I went to a game at Fenway and struggled to see the ball. It was like why bother

I haven't been to Fenway in close to 30 years and I know it has changed a lot but when I used to go it was a great place to watch from wherever I was sitting. Usually third base line, but they were nothing fancy halfway back up.

 

[The_Jamal]

Stay away from ament slow not explosive can’t finish at the rim also we don’t have a lead guard or wing creator

When your team has little talent, you especially don't care what you're drafting. Worry about getting the high level/elite talent first, then you were about positional versatility.

Spurs drafted Harper after taking the ROY, Stephon Castle and trading for Fox. Do you think they care they have a "guard glut"?

I haven't dove into the prospects this year, but the Kings cannot afford to pass on BPA, under any circumstance. They don't have a single guy on this roster that would block an elite prospect

 

[Joshyjosh31]

When your team has little talent, you especially don't care what you're drafting. Worry about getting the high level/elite talent first, then you were about positional versatility.

Spurs drafted Harper after taking the ROY, Stephon Castle and trading for Fox. Do you think they care they have a "guard glut"?

I haven't dove into the prospects this year, but the Kings cannot afford to pass on BPA, under any circumstance. They don't have a single guy on this roster that would block an elite prospect

Agree BPA is the way to go especially when we have so many holes I’m just higher on brown then the fowards outside of boozer

 

[BuddyBuckets]

If all that happens, you have a very solid three-man rotation at the Forward spot. (By the by, Wilson would also fit into that same role.) If Kuminga doesn't want to come off the bench, he has to be better than one of the other two guys.

I'm all about that. I just would hope you don't end up with a guy who is sulking the way he is in GS.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

It depends on who the team is building around. 2 stars at other positions that you can run offense through and history says having a defender at PG/SG is probably wise.

My preference is to have a center that is basically a rim runner/defender and in a perfect world can extend to the 3pt line. Outside of Jokic, it's really hard to build around non defensive centers.

So in my world you build with Keon-Keegan-Nique + a defensive center, I think you need a star forward + a star lead guard.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

I don’t disagree but you can get very good point guards later like Haliburton. Good forwards rarely slide

1000%. But this year Peterson + Brown both project as "bigger" lead guards. I'm not sure the days of guys like Shai/Hali falling are going to happen. it's a copy cat league and between those 2 + luka, Cade, Harper, Castle, Giddey. I'm guessing the teams are going to start heavily focusing on getting a bigger lead guard.

We've consistently been an undersized team. In a world we luck into Darryn Peterson. Suddenly you have
Peterson 6'6
Nique 6'6
Keegan 6'8

As your starting 1-3. That is how you start to build an OKC/Indiana style team IMO.

Don't get me wrong. My guy is Dybantsa this year, this franchise is starving for that kind of athleticism.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

I dunno, I feel like if we get nightly triple double Beam Team Domas back he could be perfect for a tanking team that wants to get a lot of shots for the youngsters. He's going to pass and rebound, set a good example by playing hard every night, but with his lack of interior defense he's not the type of guy to really push the W/L column up as the best vet presence on a team.

If he wants out though then it would be best to get what we can for him. I don't really want another sullen jerk half assing it after our last few Fox seasons. That was tough to watch.

I just don't know how 30 year old Sabonis would feel passing up shots for a 20 year old rookie, Keegan, Nique and others. IIRC he's already started to complain about touches this year with other vets. And I'm not blaming him, he's doing all the dirty work while he watches LaVine, Schroder, Demar, Monk hog the ball.

Maybe you are right, but I think around a real team of shooters/defenders, Sabonis elite abilities would shine, and he wouldn't look as bad as he does this year.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I just don't know how 30 year old Sabonis would feel passing up shots for a 20 year old rookie, Keegan, Nique and others. IIRC he's already started to complain about touches this year with other vets. And I'm not blaming him, he's doing all the dirty work while he watches LaVine, Schroder, Demar, Monk hog the ball.

Maybe you are right, but I think around a real team of shooters/defenders, Sabonis elite abilities would shine, and he wouldn't look as bad as he does this year.

Sabonis isn’t gonna be here next year he was already questioning it after last year and we should’ve traded him then. No way he doesn’t demand out if we win 27-34 games… we should’ve traded him target Portland at the deadline take on Grants contract with scoot and Hansen and get as many bucks picks as we can from them

 

[gunks]

Yeah y'all are probably right about Domas. I guess it's less I think us holding on to him is realistic vs I think he would be an interesting piece to keep around if we luck into a top 5 pick this year.

At least he's actually generating interest amongst other teams. We're probably stuck with Deebo unless a fringe contender gets sold on his ability to put up points. Definitely stuck with Lavine (hopefully just until the end of his contract but you never know with an owner like Vivek) who has the preternatural ability to drop 30 on great efficiency but still somehow suck.

 

[The_Jamal]

I just don't know how 30 year old Sabonis would feel passing up shots for a 20 year old rookie, Keegan, Nique and others. IIRC he's already started to complain about touches this year with other vets. And I'm not blaming him, he's doing all the dirty work while he watches LaVine, Schroder, Demar, Monk hog the ball.

Maybe you are right, but I think around a real team of shooters/defenders, Sabonis elite abilities would shine, and he wouldn't look as bad as he does this year.

I think Domas would love playing with the defenders and guys who share the ball. Just insane we are fully neturing one of the best passers in basketball by surrounding him with ISO ball hogs that dont play defense

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Given how they are playing a better question is why aren’t you a Hawks fan? Or Georgia Tech Football. So many options

I don't root for Georgia Tech football, a) because I loathe football, and b) because I don't care about college sports. I don't even root the school I went to.

As for why I'm not a Hawks fan, my foray into team fandom was as a Kings fan. I wasn't living in Georgia at that time; in fact, had I allowed my fandom to be determined by where I was living at the time, I'd be a Bulls fan (I was in Illinois for high school, during the Bulls' first three-peat), but the Bulls didn't bring it out of me like that, and Jordan was never my "guy." When I stopped being a Kings fan, I didn't jump ship to another team, I just stopped rooting for teams altogether. It never even occurred to me to root for the Hawks; like I said, for who? For what?

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

… It never even occurred to me to root for the Hawks; like I said, for who? For what?

I think it’s usually for the community. You root for the local team in order to have something in common with your neighbor, or with the people you see at the supermarket every day. Or if your friends and family have spread out, it helps to have an interest in common to ground everybody.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think it’s usually for the community. You root for the local team in order to have something in common with your neighbor, or with the people you see at the supermarket every day. Or if your friends and family have spread out, it helps to have an interest in common to ground everybody.

I mean, I kind of get that but, like I said, I don't feel attached to this community. I moved here when I was thirty-six: I'm not from here, I just live here. My mom's family is from here, but they're not really basketball fans, and I don't like football, so we don't talk about sports much. I have one uncle who's close to my age (my mom's baby brother) who likes basketball, but he hasn't rooted for the Hawks since they traded Dominique. There really isn't anyone I would have gotten a love of the Hawks from.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't root for Georgia Tech football, a) because I loathe football, and b) because I don't care about college sports. I don't even root the school I went to.

As for why I'm not a Hawks fan, my foray into team fandom was as a Kings fan. I wasn't living in Georgia at that time; in fact, had I allowed my fandom to be determined by where I was living at the time, I'd be a Bulls fan (I was in Illinois for high school, during the Bulls' first three-peat), but the Bulls didn't bring it out of me like that, and Jordan was never my "guy." When I stopped being a Kings fan, I didn't jump ship to another team, I just stopped rooting for teams altogether. It never even occurred to me to root for the Hawks; like I said, for who? For what?

Interesting. What school did you go to? I went to Pomona College so kind of pointless on my part.

 

[sactowndog]

I think it’s usually for the community. You root for the local team in order to have something in common with your neighbor, or with the people you see at the supermarket every day. Or if your friends and family have spread out, it helps to have an interest in common to ground everybody.

Of course it is the community.

Which is why the A’s were so dumb to play with Las Vegas on their chest. Sometimes I wonder if Sac will ever get a smart owner. Was hoping for MLS with Burkle but Covid killed that hope.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Interesting. What school did you go to? I went to Pomona College so kind of pointless on my part.

Norfolk State. Shout out to the GI Bill.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

Sabonis isn’t gonna be here next year he was already questioning it after last year and we should’ve traded him then. No way he doesn’t demand out if we win 27-34 games… we should’ve traded him target Portland at the deadline take on Grants contract with scoot and Hansen and get as many bucks picks as we can from them

Yea I really wish they weren't delusional this summer. I wanted to try and get Ayton + their 1st for Sabonis. A giant expiring and a 1st rounder. I was big on Carter Bryant 6'7 3&D type would have fit perfect here. But even if we waited till after their trade with Memphis, getting Yang would have been fine also

 

[BuddyBuckets]

I think Domas would love playing with the defenders and guys who share the ball. Just insane we are fully neturing one of the best passers in basketball by surrounding him with ISO ball hogs that dont play defense

I agree we are surrounding him with the wrong guys, but I've never been super impressed with Sabonis as a passer. He's certainly not a Jokic type. Most of his assists came from DHO. He was a better screen setter than a passer to me. Decent for sure, just not what the numbers say IMO.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Yea I really wish they weren't delusional this summer. I wanted to try and get Ayton + their 1st for Sabonis. A giant expiring and a 1st rounder. I was big on Carter Bryant 6'7 3&D type would have fit perfect here. But even if we waited till after their trade with Memphis, getting Yang would have been fine also

We’d still get fists for him at the deadline Portland has three Milwaukee firsts and a future first rounder from Orlando and Boston. Of the only young guys we’d get back from them is Scoot and Henson their gonna have to add in multiple firsts too that. Unless they go after Lauri who right now is gonna be extremely expensive if Utah trades him or the chase AD but the injuries could scare them off

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We’d still get fists for him at the deadline Portland has three Milwaukee firsts and a future first rounder from Orlando and Boston. Of the only young guys we’d get back from them is Scoot and Henson their gonna have to add in multiple firsts too that. Unless they go after Lauri who right now is gonna be extremely expensive if Utah trades him or the chase AD but the injuries could scare them off

We'd have to take Jerami Grant for salary matching so yeah I think even with Scoot included they'd need to give up some of those picks because getting a team to take Grant is going to cost them bigly.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Dame
Sharpe
Camara
Avdija
Sabonis

Jrue, Kris, Clingan

That’s a pretty fun top 8.

Scoots an interesting value case. On one hand he was a generational type prospect, on the other he hasn’t been healthy or all that good so far.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I wonder how Portland fans feel about dealing Scoot. I’m guessing they probably don’t like the idea given he is 21 and both Dame/Jrue are old. If I had to guess they probably would push for a deal centered around 1 Bucks pick and 1 protected Portland pick.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

We'd have to take Jerami Grant for salary matching so yeah I think even with Scoot included they'd need to give up some of those picks because getting a team to take Grant is going to cost them bigly.

Williams, Thybull, Scoot, and Hansen for Sabonis and Eubanks works in the trade machine

I wonder how Portland fans feel about dealing Scoot. I’m guessing they probably don’t like the idea given he is 21 and both Dame/Jrue are old. If I had to guess they probably would push for a deal centered around 1 Bucks pick and 1 protected Portland pick.

They have three bucks picks and one of Orlando/bostons first if the only prospect there sending out is Hansen they’ll need to send at minimum three firsts

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I wonder how Portland fans feel about dealing Scoot. I’m guessing they probably don’t like the idea given he is 21 and both Dame/Jrue are old. If I had to guess they probably would push for a deal centered around 1 Bucks pick and 1 protected Portland pick.

Portland fans in my orbit have never really seemed to fall in love with Scoot. It's not a Bagley situation, but it's like if we had drafted Devin Carter with a high lotto pick and Fox demanded out before the season even started and going into his third season he's still kinda where he's at today.

Plus around the league he's starting to make the bust/is-it-too-late? videos.