Anthony Davis watch

[rainmaker]

The ultimate point, I think, is that both Boogie and AD are top 20 all time type talents. And they are still very young and already dominant statistically. The thing that ends up separating the Vince Carters from the Kobe and Jordans, is the playoffs. It's exciting to see such great young talents in the league at the same time.

I'd say what separates a guy like Vince from Kobe/MJ is what's between the ears. Same thing with a guy like TMac. All the athleticism and pure talent yet lacking on commitment, work ethic and the desire to constantly improve. Kobe/MJ outworked everyone and are the ultimate competitors, want/wanted to literally kill their opposition.

As much as I hate the Lakers, Kobe's cutthroat mentality and work ethic is unmatched. And it surprisingly was there since he entered the league where he'd almost never go out and instead watched hour upon hour of game film, harassed employees to meet him at the gym at 3am or 4am because he felt like working on his game, seeking out Gary Payton in his 3rd year I think it was to improve his defense, and really, every single night shows up with the attitude of "I have to prove I am the best" as a few examples, on top of ultimate confidence in himself. Kobe is also the most fundamentally sound guard of his era, which often goes unnoticed and is a result of outworking everyone else. He has a counter to every scenario. That's why a Vince or TMac aren't on his level. They're soft in comparison. So are Durant and Lebron in comparison. If Durant had Kobe's work ethic, he'd have a postgame by now. If Lebron had Kobe's "step on your throat"mentality, he'd have more rings by now.

 

[206Fan]

The thing with AD that makes any comparison impossible, is that he really isn't a Center or PF. He's like a super freaky SF. One who leads the league in blocks. I guess that's why I forgive him for not having the back to the basket dominance traditional bigs generally have in their repertoire. Cause I don't think he's that.

Best center is more of a debate about Marc Gasol vs Boogie.

AD is a different type of specimen. I don't think he's a big... he's like an oversized SF that can protect the paint and rebound. I think his game style is really unique to the game.

 

[206Fan]

Anthony Davis was not asked to guard Cousins tonight for a reason. Coach said that Davis even guarded Nik in 1 possession because he didn't want to guard our big(Cousins). AD was shut off tonight because his guards weren't running plays for him. Even Anderson said they'd like to give the ball to AD, but not every night it'll be "wide open" for him.. they can't just pass him the ball for an isolation score because of the defense's gameplan.. is what he sort of said.

That's the difference between AD and Cuz. You can't just give AD the ball down low and expect him to score, but you can give the ball down low to Cuz and expect him to score.

 

[rainmaker]

You certainly can give AD the ball in iso situations, in the post or post extended and expect him to score. You just can't do it to the extent you can with Boogie who's one of the most unguardable 1v1 match-ups in the league right now.

What hurts AD more and the bigger difference is that while you can go to him in iso situations, you cannot run the offense through him as you can with Boogie. He's not near the passer. He also doesn't draw the same attention and make defenses collapse on him.

Seems to me there's two conversations going on here which are being lumped together. Can AD or can't AD get his own shot and score in iso situations? Yes he can. But is he the iso/1v1 threat Cuz is and can you run the offense through AD as we can with Cuz? No you can't.

It's not some black and white scenario like some are attempting to make it, which appears to falsely be as a big, you either are the iso/1v1 threat a guy like Cuz is, or you're not an iso/1v1 threat at all. Pretend for a sec that Cuz doesn't exist. If you had to pick from all the other bigs across the league to go to 1v1 with the game on the line, there simply aren't that many above AD. Aldridge is one. Dirk is another. Big Al. Who else? Pau? Maybe. Griffin? I sure wouldn't. Love? No. Marc Gasol? Maybe. Bosh? He's soft as toilet paper. D12? Lol, no. Brook Lopez? No.

Cuz is a HOF talent playing like a HOFer. He's unguardable. That isn't however the black and white standard for whether a guy can get his own or not. Most bigs across the league can't touch Cuz in iso situations. They just don't have the game.

 

[Hadlowe]

The entire question of Davis' offensive acumen is confounded by Monty Williams' haplessness as a coach. I do not see Malone as a great or even good offensive coach (yet), but he does well at catering to his best players' strong points. Monty has a team with two to four very good ballhandlers and passers on the floor at any one time and yet the offense is fairly stagnant. His staple horns sets very rarely have any secondary action to bring wings up top. Most of the possessions degenerate into high pnr action with three players standing still waiting for a kickout. It is hard for me to tell whether Davis can pass well (I suspect so) because no one on his team is moving into open spots when he has the ball in the high post.

 

[Glenn]

Seems like AD could function on the high post. Can't remember if he ever was there but his outside shooting seems good and I suspect he can pass. He has several more years in the league to round out his game.

 

[206Fan]

You certainly can give AD the ball in iso situations, in the post or post extended and expect him to score. You just can't do it to the extent you can with Boogie who's one of the most unguardable 1v1 match-ups in the league right now.

What hurts AD more and the bigger difference is that while you can go to him in iso situations, you cannot run the offense through him as you can with Boogie. He's not near the passer. He also doesn't draw the same attention and make defenses collapse on him.

Seems to me there's two conversations going on here which are being lumped together. Can AD or can't AD get his own shot and score in iso situations? Yes he can. But is he the iso/1v1 threat Cuz is and can you run the offense through AD as we can with Cuz? No you can't.

It's not some black and white scenario like some are attempting to make it, which appears to falsely be as a big, you either are the iso/1v1 threat a guy like Cuz is, or you're not an iso/1v1 threat at all. Pretend for a sec that Cuz doesn't exist. If you had to pick from all the other bigs across the league to go to 1v1 with the game on the line, there simply aren't that many above AD. Aldridge is one. Dirk is another. Big Al. Who else? Pau? Maybe. Griffin? I sure wouldn't. Love? No. Marc Gasol? Maybe. Bosh? He's soft as toilet paper. D12? Lol, no. Brook Lopez? No.

Cuz is a HOF talent playing like a HOFer. He's unguardable. That isn't however the black and white standard for whether a guy can get his own or not. Most bigs across the league can't touch Cuz in iso situations. They just don't have the game.

You can give the ball to Love on an iso situation. If AD is the next best great big, why can't his team give him the ball and let him create something even out of nothing?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You make it sound like they 'can't' because if they did, he'd fail at it, when the truth is that they 'can't' because they're selfish basketball players, and they don't really want to. Tyreke Evans included, and I say that as a charter member of the Kings Fans Tyreke Evans fan club.

I will say that, if it were just Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis, or just Tyreke Evans and Anthony Davis, then Davis would probably be averaging 28+ppg (not if it were just Eric Gordon and Anthony Davis, though, because Gordon is terrible). Holiday and Evans are both effective pick-and-roll guards, and if they are the guy who gets to dominate the ball at any given time, they will seek out their big man on the roll, and feed him buckets. But because it's Jrue Holiday and Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon, none of those guys are ceding the ball to the other two, or anyone else, because they act like they're afraid that they won't ever get it back. Which may, very well, be true. I do boggle at the notion that some Pelicans fans can look at the three-guard lineup of Holiday, Gordon and Evans, and see that it is, indeed, a problem, and think that the optimum solution is to get rid of Evans. No, the optimum solution is to get rid of the overpaid albatross known as Eric Gordon, and replace him with a '3 and D' regular-sized small forward.

Anthony Davis is unbelievably effective at scoring on the pick and roll; he's probably the best at it since Karl Malone. But that's far from the only way he can score. If you think otherwise, you haven't been paying close attention.

 

[KingMilz]

I've been trying to think who Davis reminds me off and I think he play's like a longer prime Shawn Marion (Suns), both are excellent on lobs/pick n rolls and both have that push shot sort of like a floater. The slight difference is that Davis has a better mid range jumper and Shawn had a better 3 point jumper. Marion similar to Davis staffed the crap out of the stat sheet in every category . Marion while not the shot blocker Davis is was a excellent defender his entire career but like current Davis struggled against bigger/stronger PF's/C's.

Interestingly enough both Davis and the Pelicans have looked way worse without Gordon which I never thought I would say.

 

[206Fan]

You make it sound like they 'can't' because if they did, he'd fail at it, when the truth is that they 'can't' because they're selfish basketball players, and they don't really want to. Tyreke Evans included, and I say that as a charter member of the Kings Fans Tyreke Evans fan club.

I will say that, if it were just Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis, or just Tyreke Evans and Anthony Davis, then Davis would probably be averaging 28+ppg (not if it were just Eric Gordon and Anthony Davis, though, because Gordon is terrible). Holiday and Evans are both effective pick-and-roll guards, and if they are the guy who gets to dominate the ball at any given time, they will seek out their big man on the roll, and feed him buckets. But because it's Jrue Holiday and Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon, none of those guys are ceding the ball to the other two, or anyone else, because they act like they're afraid that they won't ever get it back. Which may, very well, be true. I do boggle at the notion that some Pelicans fans can look at the three-guard lineup of Holiday, Gordon and Evans, and see that it is, indeed, a problem, and think that the optimum solution is to get rid of Evans. No, the optimum solution is to get rid of the overpaid albatross known as Eric Gordon, and replace him with a '3 and D' regular-sized small forward.

Anthony Davis is unbelievably effective at scoring on the pick and roll; he's probably the best at it since Karl Malone. But that's far from the only way he can score. If you think otherwise, you haven't been paying close attention.

Here's a quote from a Pelican's fan from Pelicansreport. The fans refers "he" to Tyreke.

He's second on the team in assists, a really solid rebounder, and a one man transition game. He is the furthest thing from what is wrong with this team. Other than him, Jrue is the only other guy who can create anything by himself. Spot up guys are great when you have others who can set them up...who's going to set up Reke? He and Jrue are the only ones who can create anything on this team. Just because he has a nice handle people assume the guy is some street ball player and he's not. AD can't create and neither can Ryno. When someone gets into AD, he has NOTHING. Paul Milsap shut him down. At this point in his career, AD IS Tyson Chandler with a jumpshot. Ryno takes fadeaway jump shots on guys 5 inches shorter. Rivers shouldn't be in the NBA, period, we have waited long enough. When you are excited about a guy in this third year who may finally shoot higher than 40%, that's a problem.

Tyreke is not the problem on this team.

Of course this isn't the view from all Pelican fans, but it is 1. AD feeds off of his guards. PnR, catch and shoot, dump offs, transition oops, and etc. The only consistent move he really has to create his own shot is when he challenges the quickness of his defenders for a layup. AD is the most agile big of the NBA.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

To paraphrase a popular GEICO commercial, everyone already knows that. It doesn't really refute anything any of us have said about him. We already know that he mostly scores off pick and roll, and action from the guards. That speaks to what he does, not necessarily what he's capable of.

 

[twslam07]

Seems to me there's two conversations going on here which are being lumped together. Can AD or can't AD get his own shot and score in iso situations? Yes he can. But is he the iso/1v1 threat Cuz is and can you run the offense through AD as we can with Cuz? No you can't.

No, that's not what is at debate here. It's can he do it consistently which at the moment is a no. You could watch many players in this league get their own shots from time to time, but it's the ones that can do it consistently that thrive.

Not saying he can't get there. I'm just saying he isn't there.

 

[mac]

How would you compare Anthony Davis now to prime Amare Stoudemire?

 

[Hadlowe]

How would you compare Anthony Davis now to prime Amare Stoudemire?

Davis is a better athlete and plays defense.

 

[mac]

Davis is a better athlete and plays defense.

But in terms of their offensive skillset? Both are good pick and roll players, and IIRC Amare was a pretty good shooter as well. It was just a thought I had ... kinda forgot that Amare was actually considered one of the best bigs back then, and was certainly a very tough match up every time we played the Suns.

 

[hahnhan]

Davis is amazing ...he plays both ends at a star level compare to the new breed of NBA power forwards..we haven't seen that since kg and Tim duncan

 

[hahnhan]

Davis is a better athlete and plays defense.[/qu

Forealz that's an insult...stoudamire was a poor defender and rebounder too...his offense and athletic ability made him who he is..

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The Pelicans have had, like, six straight possessions without Anthony Davis touching the ball on offense. How do you try and make any case for what he can or can't do, when his teammates won't pass it to him?

 

[KingMilz]

While I enjoyed hating on AD offensive game I simply cannot anymore he's to good to hate on and the kid plays hard non stop.

 

[The_Jamal]

But in terms of their offensive skillset? Both are good pick and roll players, and IIRC Amare was a pretty good shooter as well. It was just a thought I had ... kinda forgot that Amare was actually considered one of the best bigs back then, and was certainly a very tough match up every time we played the Suns.

Amare actually has one of the greatest offensive peaks at PF in NBA history and I actually think it's a pretty good comparison offensively. Both guys made their living at the elbow/PnR and were basically unguardable once they made their move to the rim.

As for Davis right now, there's just not much to say. He's scoring like prime Dirk and defending/rebounding like prime KG. The guy just shredded a really good GSW defense tonight who couldn't slow him down at all. Unfortunately, no one else decided to help out.

 

[Mad D]

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

GOJIRA!

 

[Chubbs]

The common criticism among jealous king's fans is that AD is the product of great guard play. I disagree.

At times he's putting up these numbers despite his guards. The problem with the pels, well, it's not AD. If they treated him like the superstar he is and occasionally just gave him the ball and got out of the way they might win a few more games.

It's truly amazing how quickly his offense has progressed. Scary.

For the current Kings season, let's hope the Pelicans don't figure it out.

 

[The_Jamal]

The common criticism among jealous king's fans is that AD is the product of great guard play. I disagree.

At times he's putting up these numbers despite his guards. The problem with the pels, well, it's not AD. If they treated him like the superstar he is and occasionally just gave him the ball and got out of the way they might win a few more games.

It's truly amazing how quickly his offense has progressed. Scary.

For the current Kings season, let's hope the Pelicans don't figure it out.

This is what's so special about his season thus far. Dude is putting up an all-time great PF season and he's not even top 20 in USG in the league. That's absolutely mind-boggling to me and an absolute failure from Monty to not be getting him the ball more; Davis should easily be a top 5 USG guy. Everyone else in top 10 USG? Kobe, Cousins, Wade, Griffin, Harden, Anthony, Bron, Williams, Bosh.

 

[kingsboi]

so the consensus here is Monty Williams is holding Davis back from really blowing up....to me it mirrors the same thing that happened here with Cousins and the two coaches that were holding him back prior to the hiring of Malone.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think that the consensus of everyone who isn't just throwing shade at Anthony Davis out of some kind of insecurity vis-a-vis Cousins is that Monty Williams is holding Anthony Davis back, yeah.

 

[Chubbs]

AD still on an all time best PER pace. 33.7.

I feel like he should be shooting even more, but with the utterly insane efficiency, it's just hard to argue with how he's getting his numbers.

Now the rest of that team...

Some coach is going to figure out how to use AD to his maximum potential, and that's going to be a very good team. Remember, took our boy into his 5th season to be on a winning team.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Davis is a beast no doubt. Not sure why anyone would question that. Honestly, even as a Kings fan and a huge Cousins fan, I think AD will be better over his career. Seems to have a more complete package and he is only 21. Defensively, the guy blocks shots and that's what people see (even though Cuz is statistically better) can steal the ball, score the ball, rebound the ball all at a really high rate. The one thing with AD though, and this is completely my opinion, is that I don't really enjoy watching him play that much. The way he scores doesn't really do much for me (putbacks, open dunks, alley oops, drives to the hoop). I always associated those things with players that need other players to do those things and set them up. Kind of like a Blake Griffin type player (although AD is already 10X the player Griffin will ever be).

I just love seeing Cuz back people up, take them down low, grind it out and patiently wait for that one opening and score. Also, with Cuz he just has this attitude that I feel like he can just will his team to win games. That "it aint over till I say its over" type of attitude. I watched the GSW - Pelicans game and AD went off, but I never got the sense he really took over and while that may be partially attributed to Monty being an idiot, I was left with wanting more (I guess that speaks to his talent, 30-15 and I still wasn't that impressed). Cousins has had many games where he brought us back, kept us in it, or flat out won it for us.

AD is a beast and so is Cuz, but if I had to pick which one to watch, its not even close in my eyes.

 

[mac]

Davis is a beast no doubt. Not sure why anyone would question that. Honestly, even as a Kings fan and a huge Cousins fan, I think AD will be better over his career. Seems to have a more complete package and he is only 21. Defensively, the guy blocks shots and that's what people see (even though Cuz is statistically better) can steal the ball, score the ball, rebound the ball all at a really high rate. The one thing with AD though, and this is completely my opinion, is that I don't really enjoy watching him play that much. The way he scores doesn't really do much for me (putbacks, open dunks, alley oops, drives to the hoop). I always associated those things with players that need other players to do those things and set them up. Kind of like a Blake Griffin type player (although AD is already 10X the player Griffin will ever be).

I just love seeing Cuz back people up, take them down low, grind it out and patiently wait for that one opening and score. Also, with Cuz he just has this attitude that I feel like he can just will his team to win games. That "it aint over till I say its over" type of attitude. I watched the GSW - Pelicans game and AD went off, but I never got the sense he really took over and while that may be partially attributed to Monty being an idiot, I was left with wanting more (I guess that speaks to his talent, 30-15 and I still wasn't that impressed). Cousins has had many games where he brought us back, kept us in it, or flat out won it for us.

AD is a beast and so is Cuz, but if I had to pick which one to watch, its not even close in my eyes.

He's still young and he'll have to learn to develop that killer, dominating attitude. Right now he deserves a little bit of criticism for not demanding the ball from his guards enough, especially in crunch time. That was a point made by the Pelicans commentators so I assume they know what they're talking about.

 

[Chubbs]

He's still young and he'll have to learn to develop that killer, dominating attitude. Right now he deserves a little bit of criticism for not demanding the ball from his guards enough, especially in crunch time. That was a point made by the Pelicans commentators so I assume they know what they're talking about.

God help us all when that day comes.