Ailene Voisin: Not a spur of moment to trade Webber

"Webber ran the show. Webber was too powerful, too influential, too forceful for his own coach. He said all the right things and then proceeded to do whatever he wanted. Monopolize the ball. Dominate his teammates, though perhaps not consciously. Fail to defend the basket. He filled a box score like few others, yet intuitively and consistently failed to grasp the nuances of winning"

I agree, but the trade is still horrible because we got garbage in return...i still can't believe that Dalembert/Korver are not in the deal...
 
Gary said:
I am just saying give the guys we have right now (meaning bibby, miller, peja, mobley) and the rest of them a chance before you deem this team dead.
I agree with Gary on this. I don't believe the season is over too. Just a new direction. Webber's a great player and will surely be missed. :( But I remember when Webb was out last season and a month ago, I saw Miller and Bibby having a lot of potential together. With Pedja back, hopefully it should get better. Of course winning a Championship or a playoff game will be much tougher, but I'm willing to give these guys a shot cause I believe in them. GO KINGS!
 
Well we have 3 allstar players starting and we got 2 solid bench players in Williamson, and Thomas (depending on whether or not we start Songalia at PF or not). As it stands now the team is not lost.. You seen the team this year with Webber out right? The starters played well together.... Meaning Miller, Peja, Songalia, Mobley (or Christie), and Bibby.. NOW we actually have a bench to go with it in Thomas, and Williamson.. PLUS Jackson (hopefully sooner than later). That is not a bad team..

Songalia played well as a starter as well so as I am dissapointed in losing Webber, I am looking forward to seeing what this team can do w/o him. I think they will be fine.
 
I guess taking a franchise from the bottom of the Western Conference to the top albeit not a championships is not being a Winner. If you don't have a title you can't be a winner, right? The only winners in the league are the Lakers, Spurs and Pistons and Bulls over the last 10 years right? Malone..not a winner, Reggie not a winner, Barkley not a Winner, please. There are only 4 franchises that have won since 1989, so if you were never on those teams you had no shot, atleast the Kings had a shot.

Webber is a winner who turned the franchise around. My bet is this will definiltely help Philly in the short run. On top of getting webber for the next 4 years they got a young core of Daly, Iggy, and Korver on top of AI. You can't think about 5 years from now, you have to think about now with the Kings, I hope petrie was worrying about now.


The team was built around Webber. Face the facts. Your right the Kings played awesome last year but that was with Vlade and Bobby and Christie on top of the 4 other guys still on the team. This isn't the same team by any means. I just want to see if we improve against the top teams in the west, we still have Phx twice, Dallas twice, houston once.......if we somehow start beating them with kenny than so be it, but if we don't.........ugh.
 
Last edited:
Another question? Have we won a playoff series without Webber? Did we lose the one without Webber? We are 9-3 versus the Mavs in the Playoffs with Webber, we are 2-3 without him..............
 
Rockmeister said:
With Webber these past two regular seasons, the Kings were 38-31. Without him, they were 51-16.

If everyone is so concerned with stats, numbers, triple doubles, etc then the most important stat to be concerned about is wins and losses.
 
I am not sure why everyone is acting as if we just traded away Jesus himself. Yes he was a good player but we have proven that when he is out that we are still more then capable of winning and have done so for 4 years. Webber is not Shaq where you cant replace what he does on the court. Brad can do everything Chris can running the offense from the high post and the Defense will improve slightly.
 
Diabetic, how many of those games have been minus Bobby. Bobby seems to be a bigger factor in our record than Webber ever was. Bobby has been the missing element this year. We were 17-7 to start the season with him and have been 17-13 since. You see what I'm saying here. Last year we were 45-15 with Bobby on the team and we struggled yet still beat the Mavs in the playoffs, magically.
 
YAY! I got some support here. I loved Webber to death.. Him and Vlade were a part of turning this franchise around. For that we should retire #4, but I am really looking forward to seeing if we can duplicate what we did w/o webber these past two seasons!
 
bigbadred00 said:
Diabetic, how many of those games have been minus Bobby. Bobby seems to be a bigger factor in our record than Webber ever was. Bobby has been the missing element this year. We were 17-7 to start the season with him and have been 17-13 since. You see what I'm saying here. Last year we were 45-15 with Bobby on the team and we struggled yet still beat the Mavs in the playoffs, magically.

I agree that last year when Webb was not playing Bobby, Vlade and even Doug were on the floor. However, there is a huge difference between 51-16 and 38-31 and I don't think that Vlade and/or Bobby made up that difference with Webb off the floor. It was apparent last year and even this year that when Webb was on the floor the team did not seem to click as often as they had in years past. I'm not saying that Webb didn't do great things for this team when he was on the floor, but it's hard to argue with the wining percentage of when he plays as opposed to when he doesn't play. It's also hard to argue with how much better Mike, Peja and Brad all seem to play when he is not on the floor. Brad will now run things from the high post and rather than having our other big play with his face to the basket, Thomas and Corliss can post up down low and play with their back to the basket...something that no King before this trade was willing to do on a constant basis. Putting Brad at the high post is the best thing for him. He's a good passer and a better shooter than Webb at that spot on the floor and it also takes him away from the weak side where he always played facing the basket only getting shots on back cuts or when he would pop up to the elbow.
 
If Brad plays the way he did when Webb and Peja and Mobley out this year then I'll be estatic, I love the guy but he seems to not want to shoot unless he has to which is not a bad thing for a pass first center but now we need his offence. Brad has played poor lately. He was playing well with Webber back for the first couple of games but with Peja out has struggled lately. I hope the best, but sadly I'm going to follow AI and the 6ers a little more than I used to.......It's a very sad day.
 
Diabeticwonder said:
I agree that last year when Webb was not playing Bobby, Vlade and even Doug were on the floor. However, there is a huge difference between 51-16 and 38-31 and I don't think that Vlade and/or Bobby made up that difference with Webb off the floor. It was apparent last year and even this year that when Webb was on the floor the team did not seem to click as often as they had in years past. I'm not saying that Webb didn't do great things for this team when he was on the floor, but it's hard to argue with the wining percentage of when he plays as opposed to when he doesn't play. It's also hard to argue with how much better Mike, Peja and Brad all seem to play when he is not on the floor. Brad will now run things from the high post and rather than having our other big play with his face to the basket, Thomas and Corliss can post up down low and play with their back to the basket...something that no King before this trade was willing to do on a constant basis. Putting Brad at the high post is the best thing for him. He's a good passer and a better shooter than Webb at that spot on the floor and it also takes him away from the weak side where he always played facing the basket only getting shots on back cuts or when he would pop up to the elbow.

100% agree.. Think we will start Thomas though? At 6'7 he is small for PF..
 
The trade was a difficult trade to make time will tell if it was a good trade or a Bad one but we must wait and see what the results will bring.Webber had all the tools offensively that fit perfect with the system of Ball the TEAM played.He did dominate the ball and he's not real coachable as a player but when you play the any Team in the playoffs the SUNS,MAVERICKS,and even the spurs you would love to have WEBBER on your TEAM.Webber in my opinion could and would Dominate the paint if the kings faced the Suns, his game was tailor made to beat up on them.His low post skills his 15 ft game and his ability to pass out of the double teams would have gave the squad a Big lift for a series playing against the SUNS,AS well as playing the mavericks no one has ever had a answer against webber from the dallas mavericks no one on their TEAM could defend webber in the low block and he would have had a field day against them too.

The problem with Webber is you cannot be flexible in making coaching decisions with him as a player.If you sit him down in favor of an offensive,Defensive substitution and he has to come out the game for this particular play he is reluctant in excepting the role and cooeprate with the coaching move.He would pout and complain about being taking out the game in favor of a better strategy.Shaquille oneal was substituted like this often with lakers in favor of a better match up but he had to except this role for the good of the TEAM and phil jackson was man enough to stand up to SHAQ and ley him know that this was for the good of the TEAM.Webber on the other hand wasn't going for none of this and Rick adleman would just leave him and this was due to his strong personality and presence But sometimes as a coach you
can't be afraid to make those moves but in ADLEMAN'S case alot moves he had to make as a coach his hands were being tied.

This trade was also to appease peja and soothe his bruised ego to hopefully change his playing vibration.Webber for the first half of the season was on a personal mission hurt from the boo Birds last year he totally dislike the fact that he was booed and peja was treated like a little angel.He didn't understand why peopel couldn't see peja's faults as a player,so his motto was prove within the TEAM concept that he was the Better player and he could retake his formself to be one of the games top players.There are two sides to this coin because PEJA is not what you call a warrior type of ball player and he hasn't proven he can play at a high level come playoff time and he has a soft tag .Webber seen this flaws with peja and no one else could see these things and he didn't understand why he took all the blame for things when they went wrong and probably felt peja deserved soem of the burden which he did need to carry some of it being the second star player on the TEAM.

But on the other han Webber should of eased into his role last season smoother,By him dominated the offense and not helping the growth of peja when peja neede it the most was not a good move,He should have nourished peja's growth spurt but instead he didn't like the idea of becoming second fiddle and I remember last season after peja lit rick fox up for 39,Rick fox even said that all of that what we see of peja is going to change once chris webber is back,He said chris won't play second fiddle to no one.He went on to say thay they turned peja into a monster and this was How good he was playing at this time and part of the reason was chris webber giving peja confidence when he was hurt encouraging peja to play well.

But chris couldn't ever except the second fiddle role or be the second best player,Chris webber must be the best on the TEAM always has and always will.Chris maybe should have kpet feeding teh frakinstien monster and seen where it would have taken them,maybe they could have went all the way together.But at the end of the day I guess that moster's growth frighten chris and it's creation was difficult to swallow.
 
shaka zulu said:
The trade was a difficult trade to make time will tell if it was a good trade or a Bad one but we must wait and see what the results will bring.Webber had all the tools offensively that fit perfect with the system of Ball the TEAM played.He did dominate the ball and he's not real coachable as a player but when you play the any Team in the playoffs the SUNS,MAVERICKS,and even the spurs you would love to have WEBBER on your TEAM.Webber in my opinion could and would Dominate the paint if the kings faced the Suns, his game was tailor made to beat up on them.His low post skills his 15 ft game and his ability to pass out of the double teams would have gave the squad a Big lift for a series playing against the SUNS,AS well as playing the mavericks no one has ever had a answer against webber from the dallas mavericks no one on their TEAM could defend webber in the low block and he would have had a field day against them too.

The problem with Webber is you cannot be flexible in making coaching decisions with him as a player.If you sit him down in favor of an offensive,Defensive substitution and he has to come out the game for this particular play he is reluctant in excepting the role and cooeprate with the coaching move.He would pout and complain about being taking out the game in favor of a better strategy.Shaquille oneal was substituted like this often with lakers in favor of a better match up but he had to except this role for the good of the TEAM and phil jackson was man enough to stand up to SHAQ and ley him know that this was for the good of the TEAM.Webber on the other hand wasn't going for none of this and Rick adleman would just leave him and this was due to his strong personality and presence But sometimes as a coach you
can't be afraid to make those moves but in ADLEMAN'S case alot moves he had to make as a coach his hands were being tied.

This trade was also to appease peja and soothe his bruised ego to hopefully change his playing vibration.Webber for the first half of the season was on a personal mission hurt from the boo Birds last year he totally dislike the fact that he was booed and peja was treated like a little angel.He didn't understand why peopel couldn't see peja's faults as a player,so his motto was prove within the TEAM concept that he was the Better player and he could retake his formself to be one of the games top players.There are two sides to this coin because PEJA is not what you call a warrior type of ball player and he hasn't proven he can play at a high level come playoff time and he has a soft tag .Webber seen this flaws with peja and no one else could see these things and he didn't understand why he took all the blame for things when they went wrong and probably felt peja deserved soem of the burden which he did need to carry some of it being the second star player on the TEAM.

But on the other han Webber should of eased into his role last season smoother,By him dominated the offense and not helping the growth of peja when peja neede it the most was not a good move,He should have nourished peja's growth spurt but instead he didn't like the idea of becoming second fiddle and I remember last season after peja lit rick fox up for 39,Rick fox even said that all of that what we see of peja is going to change once chris webber is back,He said chris won't play second fiddle to no one.He went on to say thay they turned peja into a monster and this was How good he was playing at this time and part of the reason was chris webber giving peja confidence when he was hurt encouraging peja to play well.

But chris couldn't ever except the second fiddle role or be the second best player,Chris webber must be the best on the TEAM always has and always will.Chris maybe should have kpet feeding teh frakinstien monster and seen where it would have taken them,maybe they could have went all the way together.But at the end of the day I guess that moster's growth frighten chris and it's creation was difficult to swallow.


Can anyone summerize this in 3 sentences for me please ?
 
He played hard all the way up until the allstar break.As soon as he didn't make it he stopped playing hard and you could see him playing on one leg again.He scored 30 pts the other night but the dude is a walking triple double a classic stat guy(stat stuffer)But a brotha with alot of power that can will power in his being.But on the other hand not good TEAM PLAYER and doesn't make players around him beter basketball players.
 
piksi said:
sure but that is just lots of words ;)
alot of word you can read,/this is not an english class we are talking basketball,if overstand teh basketball in teh word then it shouldn't be a problem.It wasn't that hard to read but I guess you grading teh grammar instead.
 
Soewhat agree, about being a stats only player.. His stats 2 years ago were phenominal, and we won 61 games.. If we had that Webber than I think we would have not traded him. He was not the same after his injury. I bet with Phily he will be a 19ppg 9rpg guy.
 
I guess leading the Kings from year after year bottom of the barrel to a top flight team is not making other players better. Yes I'll agree last year he was rushed in, but on top of being rushed in Bobby got hurt which really hurt the weak bench we had. If webber is a cancer like you aluded to, I'd like that cancer on my team any day of the week.
 
That's the problem is we see technically what's going on and the assumption is it's no big deal,But we have to read deeper onto the issues.
 
shaka zulu said:
alot of word you can read,/this is not an english class we are talking basketball,if overstand teh basketball in teh word then it shouldn't be a problem.It wasn't that hard to read but I guess you grading teh grammar instead.

I would like to know what you are saying but I am just to lazy to read. I do not care about grammer or things like that
 
Gary said:
I am just saying give the guys we have right now (meaning bibby, miller, peja, mobley) and the rest of them a chance before you deem this team dead.

I agree...... I will miss Webb, I think he was a great player etc. However, if this team can play now anything like they played at the beginning of the season last year (before Webber returned), I will have NO problem with not having him on the team..... and I am sure good results will make everyone else get over his departure as well.
 
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/12442529p-13298692c.html

Ailene Voisin: Not a spur of moment to trade Webber

By Ailene Voisin -- Bee Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Thursday, February 24, 2005

Of all his moves these past several years, this was the most improbable, what many have said was impossible, and what will surely be the most controversial. And while Geoff Petrie will say that the opportunity for the Kings to become moderately younger, deeper and more committed to defense presented itself only in the final, frenzied hours before the deadline, in reality, trading Chris Webber was a year-long plot.

Reduce the risk of another crippling injury.

Change the team dynamic.

Improve the defense.

Establish Mike Bibby, Brad Miller and Peja Stojakovic as the three-tiered foundation of a franchise that these past several weeks, perhaps even months, seemed destined for a first-round playoff elimination.

The thrill was gone.

Time to move on.

"We felt we wanted to make a change in direction," an exhausted Petrie said late Wednesday night, "and we're obviously doing that. Collectively, we've got plenty of firepower, assuming Peja (sore hamstring) gets back pretty quick. But I have to tell you, I have a sense of sadness about the whole thing."
Was there one particular moment that prompted the deal that sent the team's most talented player and his $80 million contract to the Philadelphia 76ers? One specific incident? One injury-induced absence that convinced Petrie - who in turn persuaded co-owners Joe and Gavin Maloof - to acquire three 76ers, none of whom remotely resembles Webber in skills or stature?
No, there were several. This was the gradual erosion of a once mutually beneficial relationship.

There was the night Webber shredded his knee and was forced to undergo a career-altering procedure. There was the eight-game suspension a year ago for lying to a grand jury and violating the league's anti-substance abuse policy. There was his refusal to blend with a unit that, this time last season, was rolling along as efficiently as the old New York Knicks, instead dooming them to a lousy finish and locker room discord that extended into the offseason.

There also were Webber's subsequent comments questioning the toughness and commitment of his teammates - this despite his own occasional transgressions, including his departure during the third quarter of a recent game at Arco - along with his perplexing, persistent reluctance to involve Stojakovic in the offense.

Mostly there were the numbers, his versus theirs. The Kings owed Webber huge dollars over the next four years, which given his fluctuating impact and often debilitating influence, was a shaky long-term investment.
With Webber these past two regular seasons, the Kings were 38-31. Without him, they were 51-16.

This is not to suggest that this is a one-sided deal. Quite the contrary. Both teams were strengthened in different ways. The 76ers granted diminutive Allen Iverson his wish with the addition of a prolific scorer, a hybrid forward whose game has moved away from the basket and toward the perimeter, yet who remains capable of scoring down low when so inclined.

In exchange, the Kings obtained a frontcourt combination of depth, athleticism and muscle, including an experienced low-post presence with the return of reserve forward Corliss Williamson. And though this trade figures to split the city into two vocal and disparate camps - the pro-Webber vs. anti-Webber factions - the environment around Arco had become toxic.

Webber ran the show. Webber was too powerful, too influential, too forceful for his own coach. He said all the right things and then proceeded to do whatever he wanted. Monopolize the ball. Dominate his teammates, though perhaps not consciously. Fail to defend the basket. He filled a box score like few others, yet intuitively and consistently failed to grasp the nuances of winning.

Had Webber, 31, accepted his physical limitations and exploited his still-extraordinary assets that include fabulous hands and uncanny passing, the width to set withering screens, the presence of teammates with their own versatile scoring talents, he might have been a King for life. He might have been worth the gamble posed by a creaky knee that will only worsen with time.

Instead, he lived in the past, forcing the Kings to move ahead.
Now the pressure swings to Stojakovic, who has no more excuses, and to Rick Adelman, who has to demand more from his players in terms of defense, rebounding and effort. This is Webber's team no longer. These are new times.
As much as it makes me dry heave, I think Voisin's take is probably the best you're going to get on this subject. (I still think all the criticisms of her articles that were valid before are still valid now, this is not a "you were right I was wrong" post).

I was thinking this before I came back to the forum this morning, but Petrie most likely really was thinking about trading Webber for a while. Webber was just a huge force on this team, and with him around they were going to have to follow his lead. It didn't look like he would change his style at all to fit Petrie's vision for the team (I don't know where Adelman stood on the subject). That meant that as long as Webber was playing, nothing much would change for the team.

There was a lot of risk in letting the team rest in Webber's hands (or legs). The potential for further injury, the uncertainty of when Webber would practice or play, the question of whether Stojakovic would ever get unfunked on Webber's team. All that money, all that power on the team both on and off the court, and all that risk, was very dangerous. It appears that Petrie wanted to remove that danger and see what he could do with a different team.


Currently, I don't think that it was the right decision. I think the Kings truly had a shot to play well and win with the Webber-led team, and it was worth the chance. If Tim Duncan gets injured in the playoffs and the Suns, Sonics, Mavs or anybody else ends up winning the West, it will be a horrible time of what-ifs for Kings fans.

Anyway, the Kings made the decision to make a change, and we'll just have to see how it plays out.
 
Back
Top