4-1
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Come on....are you guys seriously comparing our dream team of 99-05 to this team?
It's not even comparable. We have the talent of Webber in Cousins and we have a similar mentality but the execution is all off. First of all, we had a hell of a lot of good 3 point shooters including one of the best of all time in basketball history--Stojakovic. We had one of the best guard defenders in the NBA in Doug. We had one of the smartest players to play the game in Vlade (who was also the only guy in his era to be able to tassel with Shaq and other big dominant centers). We had Mike Bibby who was clutch as hell, knew how to run the offense well and was an excellent outside shooter. Collison is the better defender of the two but certainly not on Bibby's level. Then, last but not least, the bench of B-Jax (6th man of the year every year contender), Hedo, Wells, Brad Miller, and the list goes on...
We should be proud as hell of this team for doing this much so far without the quality that other squads have. However, lets not embarrass ourselves by comparing this team to our dream team and one of the best squads the NBA has ever seen.
It's not even comparable. We have the talent of Webber in Cousins and we have a similar mentality but the execution is all off. First of all, we had a hell of a lot of good 3 point shooters including one of the best of all time in basketball history--Stojakovic. We had one of the best guard defenders in the NBA in Doug. We had one of the smartest players to play the game in Vlade (who was also the only guy in his era to be able to tassel with Shaq and other big dominant centers). We had Mike Bibby who was clutch as hell, knew how to run the offense well and was an excellent outside shooter. Collison is the better defender of the two but certainly not on Bibby's level. Then, last but not least, the bench of B-Jax (6th man of the year every year contender), Hedo, Wells, Brad Miller, and the list goes on...
We should be proud as hell of this team for doing this much so far without the quality that other squads have. However, lets not embarrass ourselves by comparing this team to our dream team and one of the best squads the NBA has ever seen.
You obviously didn't read the post properly. It doesn't say '99-05, it, rather specifically, says '98-99 (the lockout season), and '99-00. Period, full stop. And these:
Were absolutely not "dream teams." We actually didn't have Christie. We actually didn't have Bibby. We actually didn't have Jackson. We actually didn't have Turkoglu. We actually didn't have Wells (and I hope you actually meant Wallace, because otherwise you're way off). We actually didn't have Miller. The list actually didn't "go on." You know who we had on the teams that are being discussed? We had Olivier St. Jean and the ghost of Nick Anderson. That's who the hell we had. Now, if you want to debate whether this year's team is as good as those teams, knock yourself out. But, at least have the good graces to get your nomenclatures correct.
Were absolutely not "dream teams." We actually didn't have Christie. We actually didn't have Bibby. We actually didn't have Jackson. We actually didn't have Turkoglu. We actually didn't have Wells (and I hope you actually meant Wallace, because otherwise you're way off). We actually didn't have Miller. The list actually didn't "go on." You know who we had on the teams that are being discussed? We had Olivier St. Jean and the ghost of Nick Anderson. That's who the hell we had. Now, if you want to debate whether this year's team is as good as those teams, knock yourself out. But, at least have the good graces to get your nomenclatures correct.
The team you just described wasn't the 1998-1999 team. Those dudes were scrappy, didn't really know how to win, and Vernon Maxwell was our 6th man.
The 1998-1999 lockout season squad only had two starters in common with most of the glory year squads and Peja had quite a bit of trouble adjusting to the NBA during the year , finally coming on strong in the last bit of the playoff push. Until then, it was
Corliss (Good, but a bench player on 2/3 of the squads in the NBA)
Webber (Hall of Fame talent. Didn't really want to be here.)
Vlade (Who would probably have been derided as a bad signing were the internet developed back then)
Abdul-Wahad (Even devoting time to describing him would be too much effort)
Rookie J-Will (both exhilarating and terrifying at the same time)
----
Vernon Maxwell (a talent dude in his waning days, also known as a bit of a malcontent)
Funderburke (heck of a nice guy. Was our 12th/13th man upon acquiring actual talent)
Rookie Peja (Later one of the best shooters in the NBA... As a rookie, shot .320 from 3-pt land. Also was bad at defense)
Jon Barry (career journeyman. Shot .305 from 3pt land on the year. Also was our back up PG for the year, not a good thing)
and later in the year, we acquired
Scot Pollard (tough inside enforcer. Wound up our 4th/5th big man before we traded him for Brad)
In other words that team only had three of the key contributors for our later squads and, of those three, Peja wasn't really Peja yet. So yeah, while the squad you described is amazing and all, it's not the squad that started it all.
Meanwhile, we're currently rocking this line-up/rotation:
Gay (borderline all-star currently playing like Kevin Durant)
JT (suddenly playing like the mythical defensive superstar Chuck Hayes that Petrie offered a comically large contract)
DMFC (Quite simply unstoppable. Also playing great defense)
B-Mac (Shaky offensively. Developing into a good defender. World-class athlete.)
Collison (Solid player. Good on the ball defender.)
----
Landry (former 6thOY candidate. Undersized scorer. Solid-ish)
Omri (3/4 combo. Can do a bit of everything. Hustle player)
Reggie (fantastic rebounder. Good veteran presence. Not allowed to shoot unless up 30.)
Nik (alleged sharpshooter. Rookie who shows flashes)
Ramon Sessions (Ugh.)
Ray Mac (also shows flashes. Very good perimeter defender. Big-ish PG.)
D-Will (UGH!)
Hollins (Mateen!)
Comparing those two specific teams top to bottom, it's not out of the question to consider this year's squad more talented than the one from 16 years ago (has it really been that long?), certainly when it comes to defense.
Plus both squads have Corliss involved somehow, so that's awesome.
The 1998-1999 lockout season squad only had two starters in common with most of the glory year squads and Peja had quite a bit of trouble adjusting to the NBA during the year , finally coming on strong in the last bit of the playoff push. Until then, it was
Corliss (Good, but a bench player on 2/3 of the squads in the NBA)
Webber (Hall of Fame talent. Didn't really want to be here.)
Vlade (Who would probably have been derided as a bad signing were the internet developed back then)
Abdul-Wahad (Even devoting time to describing him would be too much effort)
Rookie J-Will (both exhilarating and terrifying at the same time)
----
Vernon Maxwell (a talent dude in his waning days, also known as a bit of a malcontent)
Funderburke (heck of a nice guy. Was our 12th/13th man upon acquiring actual talent)
Rookie Peja (Later one of the best shooters in the NBA... As a rookie, shot .320 from 3-pt land. Also was bad at defense)
Jon Barry (career journeyman. Shot .305 from 3pt land on the year. Also was our back up PG for the year, not a good thing)
and later in the year, we acquired
Scot Pollard (tough inside enforcer. Wound up our 4th/5th big man before we traded him for Brad)
In other words that team only had three of the key contributors for our later squads and, of those three, Peja wasn't really Peja yet. So yeah, while the squad you described is amazing and all, it's not the squad that started it all.
Meanwhile, we're currently rocking this line-up/rotation:
Gay (borderline all-star currently playing like Kevin Durant)
JT (suddenly playing like the mythical defensive superstar Chuck Hayes that Petrie offered a comically large contract)
DMFC (Quite simply unstoppable. Also playing great defense)
B-Mac (Shaky offensively. Developing into a good defender. World-class athlete.)
Collison (Solid player. Good on the ball defender.)
----
Landry (former 6thOY candidate. Undersized scorer. Solid-ish)
Omri (3/4 combo. Can do a bit of everything. Hustle player)
Reggie (fantastic rebounder. Good veteran presence. Not allowed to shoot unless up 30.)
Nik (alleged sharpshooter. Rookie who shows flashes)
Ramon Sessions (Ugh.)
Ray Mac (also shows flashes. Very good perimeter defender. Big-ish PG.)
D-Will (UGH!)
Hollins (Mateen!)
Comparing those two specific teams top to bottom, it's not out of the question to consider this year's squad more talented than the one from 16 years ago (has it really been that long?), certainly when it comes to defense.
Plus both squads have Corliss involved somehow, so that's awesome.
With regards to that 1999 lockout season team, I will say that one difference was that I knew in the preseason that things were about to change. You could see the passing of Williams, Webber and Divac. You could see the ball movement and the exciting style they were developing. This preseason the Kings looked like the same type of 28 win team we've seen the last two years. Whatever clicked after that Warriors game I just hope it continues.
But Slim is exactly right. It isn't sacrilege to compare this squad to the 1999 team. Sure you had Vlade and CWebb and JWill but they were still developing chemistry. And the other two starters were Tariq Abdul Wahad (nee Oliver Saint Jean) and Corliss Williamson. Hard to argue that TAW was significantly better than McLemore at that point despite being several years older. And I always loved Corliss as a King but he was a limited player. Peja wasn't Peja yet. The bench mob hadn't come together and the backup center was Jerome James until Pollard was traded for. That team went 27-23 which equates to about 44 wins in a full season. And that was at a time where there wasn't so much disparity between conferences and the West wasn't so stacked.
It's five games. I'm excited but right now I just want to see the Kings keep improving and competing. That's enough for me after years of difficult to watch basketball. But IF the Kings are going to keep making strides, where PDA will have to earn his salary is exactly where Geoff Petrie showed himself to be a master - tweaking the roster to build around the core. Not every move has to be genius - Geoff dealing TAW and a 1st rounder for Nick Anderson was a miss - but Corliss for Christie was a master stroke. It both gave an ideal two guard and opened a starting spot for Peja. Williams for Bibby was an upgrade. I hated seeing the fun and excitement of Jason go but it was what the team needed to go from style to substance. And all the little signings that helped build a great bench.
This team is obviously different from the 1999 team - in style, makeup, offensive and defensive capabilities etc. But this team has good chemistry. They are showing trust in each other. They are buying in to what Malone is preaching. They are grinding it out each night. I hope it continues. And that PDA can find a way to make the moves to allow them to move to the next level.
But Slim is exactly right. It isn't sacrilege to compare this squad to the 1999 team. Sure you had Vlade and CWebb and JWill but they were still developing chemistry. And the other two starters were Tariq Abdul Wahad (nee Oliver Saint Jean) and Corliss Williamson. Hard to argue that TAW was significantly better than McLemore at that point despite being several years older. And I always loved Corliss as a King but he was a limited player. Peja wasn't Peja yet. The bench mob hadn't come together and the backup center was Jerome James until Pollard was traded for. That team went 27-23 which equates to about 44 wins in a full season. And that was at a time where there wasn't so much disparity between conferences and the West wasn't so stacked.
It's five games. I'm excited but right now I just want to see the Kings keep improving and competing. That's enough for me after years of difficult to watch basketball. But IF the Kings are going to keep making strides, where PDA will have to earn his salary is exactly where Geoff Petrie showed himself to be a master - tweaking the roster to build around the core. Not every move has to be genius - Geoff dealing TAW and a 1st rounder for Nick Anderson was a miss - but Corliss for Christie was a master stroke. It both gave an ideal two guard and opened a starting spot for Peja. Williams for Bibby was an upgrade. I hated seeing the fun and excitement of Jason go but it was what the team needed to go from style to substance. And all the little signings that helped build a great bench.
This team is obviously different from the 1999 team - in style, makeup, offensive and defensive capabilities etc. But this team has good chemistry. They are showing trust in each other. They are buying in to what Malone is preaching. They are grinding it out each night. I hope it continues. And that PDA can find a way to make the moves to allow them to move to the next level.
While the schedule certainly hasn't been easy (It's not like we are playing East teams every night) we can't get too high just yet. Portland hasn't looked great this season, Clippers look awful honestly, and Devner is just not a good team this year. Although it is very impressive we beat them on a back to back with our guys clearly winded and then demolished them in our house. I am gaining some hope, but i just don't want to get too high yet, the West is a nightmare and OKC is going to come back strong when KD and Westbrook return and probably kick someone out of the playoffs
BUT. It is very possible that we are better than Portland, and the Pelicans. Pelicans are 2-2 and they are 0-2 vs western conference teams. It's VERY early. But the possibility is there that we could be an 8th seed type of team. We will know more when this terrible November schedule comes to an end
BUT. It is very possible that we are better than Portland, and the Pelicans. Pelicans are 2-2 and they are 0-2 vs western conference teams. It's VERY early. But the possibility is there that we could be an 8th seed type of team. We will know more when this terrible November schedule comes to an end
even if we wanna try and place little asterisks alongside the kings' wins out of a reasonable commitment to caution, i'd say it's important for this team to believe it can beat the best teams in the league, regardless of whether the perception of which teams are the "best" in the early portion of this season is up for debate...
The single comment was directed at Brian Shaw, who knew exactly why DFC said it. Shaw was the one who started the whole thing a couple of years ago and DFC just replied in kind. At first I thought it was over-the-top and then I thought about it. We are witnessing the emergence of the best big man in the game since Shaq. He is going to dominate this league for a long time. He challenged Brian Shaw to put someone on the floor who could stop him. Shaw had no answer and, as he looked down his bench, I'm pretty sure he was disgusted that none of the guys sitting there wanted to rise to the occasion.
It's not about success. It's about a talent from whatever superior entity (if any) you may believe in. DFC has it. He knows he has it. The Kings know he has it. And the rest of the league is gonna get the memo any day now...
It's not about success. It's about a talent from whatever superior entity (if any) you may believe in. DFC has it. He knows he has it. The Kings know he has it. And the rest of the league is gonna get the memo any day now...
I see where you're coming from. I just disagree. In my eyes, it doesn't matter who started what or who finished it. I agree with everything you said about Demarcus. I would just like for him to wait on this sort of thing until he can claim that his team has done something in this league besides start 4-1.
This early in the season and in his success story, I'd much rather have Demarcus keep his focus on the court (which he has done an awesome job of) and keep proving naysayers wrong with simply his monstrous stats and amazing play. Oh, and continuing to lead his team to wins.
This early in the season and in his success story, I'd much rather have Demarcus keep his focus on the court (which he has done an awesome job of) and keep proving naysayers wrong with simply his monstrous stats and amazing play. Oh, and continuing to lead his team to wins.
It isn't so much that they are 4-1, but the attitude and energy behind the excellent start. There has been so much talk over the years about focusing on the defense. Only to be followed by one defensive disaster game after another. It was for the most part lip service being paid by the owners, the coaches, the players, and yes even the fans. Focus was always on the offense and the defense was an afterthought. Excuses like we need defensive players to play better defense were heard every year after another disastrous season.
However this year seems different. The first game was an aberration. First game of the season jitters. But since that time, the team has executed more and more effectively every game. Not the offense but the defense got better. Only then when asked by reporters what the coaches and players attributed the turn around to was there mention of team defense. Lets face it, very few players get into the NBA not being able to put the ball in the bucket. Scoring points whether its jumpers, 3's, or dunks have always been the most coveted skill of most GM's in the draft. Get the guy who can score in bunches and we will teach him defense. Well the defense was never the primary goal. Just an afterthought.
But this Kings Coaching staff with Michael Malone has preached Defense from day one. I thought just like everyone else he was saying what the press and fans wanted to hear. But Malone has never wavered from his stance. He has not only preached defense but he and PDA have fashioned a team through trades and draft to fit the team defense concept they were shooting for. Players like IT who were fantastic offensive weapons but defensive liabilities were let go. Look at the results.
I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl that they are 4-1 and I look forward to their game tomorrow against IT and the Suns. But what impresses me more is the culture change and the attitude change that has happened with the core and roll players on this team. Mighty impressive coaching.
However this year seems different. The first game was an aberration. First game of the season jitters. But since that time, the team has executed more and more effectively every game. Not the offense but the defense got better. Only then when asked by reporters what the coaches and players attributed the turn around to was there mention of team defense. Lets face it, very few players get into the NBA not being able to put the ball in the bucket. Scoring points whether its jumpers, 3's, or dunks have always been the most coveted skill of most GM's in the draft. Get the guy who can score in bunches and we will teach him defense. Well the defense was never the primary goal. Just an afterthought.
But this Kings Coaching staff with Michael Malone has preached Defense from day one. I thought just like everyone else he was saying what the press and fans wanted to hear. But Malone has never wavered from his stance. He has not only preached defense but he and PDA have fashioned a team through trades and draft to fit the team defense concept they were shooting for. Players like IT who were fantastic offensive weapons but defensive liabilities were let go. Look at the results.
I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl that they are 4-1 and I look forward to their game tomorrow against IT and the Suns. But what impresses me more is the culture change and the attitude change that has happened with the core and roll players on this team. Mighty impressive coaching.
It was more than just opening night jitters. It was World Series game 7, with more fans in the stands turned and watching the monitors for the last inning than were watching the court. It had to be very hard to focus on the game when cheers are erupting throughout the arena that were clearly not because of anything happening on the court. It was during that period of time that the wheels fell off the Kings bus for the night.
I'm not saying the Kings would have won if there had been no baseball game, but it was a distraction worth noting.
I'm not saying the Kings would have won if there had been no baseball game, but it was a distraction worth noting.
K
I don't know if this is just me in general but I have actually been getting nervous before the games this season cause I sort of feel we actually have something to lose by losing where as in previous season's it was more well we will probably lose but at least Cousins or Reggie or whoever will keep me entertained. It just feels like a lot more is on the line now than before..could be just me.
It's also that the Warriors are very very good.
These are special times. Enjoy them.
We got to watch the birth of Boogie. Watched him go from petulant man child, to grumpy teen who knows what he needs to do, but can't help himself, to almost man. And it's still a work in progress. At this point, he may be merely an all star, all NBA guy. In two years, he might be MVP. Heck, in a month that talk might be happening, if it isn't already. That's called making the leap. He's leaping beyond maybe all star, to why isn't he starting on the all star team ? Why not? Who is better?
The days of watching Kmart, or Tyreke, or Boogie and having that be enough, individual talent, it's over. We have a TEAM. And everyone knows who the man is on that team. Thy name is Boogie.
I love the good natured trash talk to shaw. Just love it. That's what legends do. They know they're great, and they'll just tell you what they're going to do, and you can't stop it. Maybe he's not Bird/MJ level. But maybe, just maybe, he is. That's the stuff you tell your kids about. Remember the night Boogie scored 30 in 22 minutes and trash talked the nuggets bench in the process? They still tell Bird stories. And a lot of them start with him taking offense at the 80's version of Mozgov trying to guard him.
Throw in Casspi fixing the headband and the nice fist bump? Those are memories being made right there.
Yeah, it's early. **** it, I'm not waiting a month to see how things play out. I'm enjoying the now. That's all we have folks. It's all we'll ever have.
These are special times. Enjoy them.
We got to watch the birth of Boogie. Watched him go from petulant man child, to grumpy teen who knows what he needs to do, but can't help himself, to almost man. And it's still a work in progress. At this point, he may be merely an all star, all NBA guy. In two years, he might be MVP. Heck, in a month that talk might be happening, if it isn't already. That's called making the leap. He's leaping beyond maybe all star, to why isn't he starting on the all star team ? Why not? Who is better?
The days of watching Kmart, or Tyreke, or Boogie and having that be enough, individual talent, it's over. We have a TEAM. And everyone knows who the man is on that team. Thy name is Boogie.
I love the good natured trash talk to shaw. Just love it. That's what legends do. They know they're great, and they'll just tell you what they're going to do, and you can't stop it. Maybe he's not Bird/MJ level. But maybe, just maybe, he is. That's the stuff you tell your kids about. Remember the night Boogie scored 30 in 22 minutes and trash talked the nuggets bench in the process? They still tell Bird stories. And a lot of them start with him taking offense at the 80's version of Mozgov trying to guard him.
Throw in Casspi fixing the headband and the nice fist bump? Those are memories being made right there.
Yeah, it's early. **** it, I'm not waiting a month to see how things play out. I'm enjoying the now. That's all we have folks. It's all we'll ever have.
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