3 point percentage vs attempts

[sactowndog]

Games. Percent. Attempts
Miami. 29.4%. 34
San An. 40.9%. 22
Hornets. 36.4%. 33
Celtics. 41.9%. 31
Pelicans. 33.3%. 39
Bulls 22.2%. 18
Denver. 35.1%. 37
Lakers. 32.0%. 25
Clips. 27.3%. 33
76’ers. 35.9%. 39
Orlando. 41.7%. 24
Knicks. 44.8%. 29
Wiz. 21.1%. 38
Pels. 20.5%. 39
Hawks. 24.2%. 33
Suns. 13.6%. 22
Kings. 44.0%. 25

Okay I get it’s just 1 game but so far the trend continues of the Kings shooting at a high 3 point percentage with low attempts. Why aren’t guys like Giles and Skal getting more pick and pops for 3? Why aren’t we kicking the ball out to Buddy and Yogi for open looks?

Of the teams with fewer attempts one shoots 13.6% and the other 22.2% while we shoot 44%. Sadly Grant and Doug are so busy hyping the team you can’t get a decent discussion or insight on this issue.

So let’s discuss here, do you blame Joeger or Fox?

 

[sactowndog]

My opinion... of the 11 we made Fox assisted on 1 of the shots. But I will also say I did see him kick out to the corner three more. I think Dave needs to have Fox penetrate more from the angle which will open up more of the weak side passes with shooters. But Fox has to look to make that pass when help comes. I think it’s a bit of both.

 

[dude12]

Games. Percent. Attempts
Miami. 29.4%. 34
San An. 40.9%. 22
Hornets. 36.4%. 33
Celtics. 41.9%. 31
Pelicans. 33.3%. 39
Bulls 22.2%. 18
Denver. 35.1%. 37
Lakers. 32.0%. 25
Clips. 27.3%. 33
76’ers. 35.9%. 39
Orlando. 41.7%. 24
Knicks. 44.8%. 29
Wiz. 21.1%. 38
Pels. 20.5%. 39
Hawks. 24.2%. 33
Suns. 13.6%. 22
Kings. 44.0%. 25

Okay I get it’s just 1 game but so far the trend continues of the Kings shooting at a high 3 point percentage with low attempts. Why aren’t guys like Giles and Skal getting more pick and pops for 3? Why aren’t we kicking the ball out to Buddy and Yogi for open looks?

Of the teams with fewer attempts one shoots 13.6% and the other 22.2% while we shoot 44%. Sadly Grant and Doug are so busy hyping the team you can’t get a decent discussion or insight on this issue.

So let’s discuss here, do you blame Joeger or Fox?

We won that game, that is what matters. But more than likely, the more we shoot 3s, the lower our percentage and maybe that’s ok. It’s not like we are shooting 10-15.

 

[sactowndog]

We won that game, that is what matters. But more than likely, the more we shoot 3s, the lower our percentage and maybe that’s ok. It’s not like we are shooting 10-15.

Perhaps but even if it dropped to 39% at that percentage you should be shooting a ton of 3’s.

 

[Entity]

buddy had an off game the other night. that will not continue.

 

[sactowndog]

buddy had an off game the other night. that will not continue.

I’m not worried about Buddy’s percentage. I’m worried about his attempts. How does one of the best 3 point shooters in the league get only 2 attempts? Jackson worked on 3’s all summer and got one attempt. Meanwhile, Fox chucked up 4 attempts.

 

[Gguod]

This offensive system doesnt generate nearly enough three point shots. First of all we have a player like Buddy Hield. The way he is being used is just terrible. For example if you watch how the sixers use JJ Redick, you see he is constantly involved in their offense. Not spotting up but running screens, setting picks, taking handoffs ect, constantly being a threat or a decoy and that does wonders to an offense. We do very little that type of stuff with Buddy. When a shooter like Buddy or Redick runs screens, sets screens and takes handoffs, defense is forced to rotate and/or switch. Forcing defense to rotate and switch is extremely important and thats why its strange we do so little stuff with Buddy. Its not only about getting Buddy more shots, but when used correctly his threat will open up shots for others too.

We also have a lot of players playing that aren't very good shooters. On a lineup of Fox, Hield, JJ, Skal, Wcs we already have one non shooter and two below average 3point shooters. Its not easy to generate a lot of 3 pointers with lineups like that and thats why Buddy should be constantly involved on offensive sets.

We have very few players that can create their own 3pointers, thats why Yogi looks like a good signing. Also we run very little 4out-1in pick n roll compared to rest of the league. When we run pick n roll the ball is often in the hands of a player that wont take the off the dribble 3 (Fox), and we often have a big waiting in the dunker spot and the screener not being a real 3point threat. That means the spacing is bad and the two guys spotting up wont get open since the defense dont have to rotate heavily because there already is a defender in the paint.

 

[ppine]

The trend is more threes. It was interesting watching the Lakers play the Nuggets. Denver looked like they were getting outplayed until I looked at the scoreboard. They won easily because of the 3. LA went after layups.

Buddy, Bogdon, and Yogi can launch from anywhere. I believe Fox will develop his 3 point shooting ability. Jackson can be included in this group. Maybe Bejelica. It remains to be seen if any of the bigs can turn into consistent 3 point shooters. There are enough talented shooting guards on the team so it is kind of a moot point. Shooting from 3 opens up the lane for the big men.

 

[sactowndog]

This offensive system doesnt generate nearly enough three point shots. First of all we have a player like Buddy Hield. The way he is being used is just terrible. For example if you watch how the sixers use JJ Redick, you see he is constantly involved in their offense. Not spotting up but running screens, setting picks, taking handoffs ect, constantly being a threat or a decoy and that does wonders to an offense. We do very little that type of stuff with Buddy. When a shooter like Buddy or Redick runs screens, sets screens and takes handoffs, defense is forced to rotate and/or switch. Forcing defense to rotate and switch is extremely important and thats why its strange we do so little stuff with Buddy. Its not only about getting Buddy more shots, but when used correctly his threat will open up shots for others too.

We also have a lot of players playing that aren't very good shooters. On a lineup of Fox, Hield, JJ, Skal, Wcs we already have one non shooter and two below average 3point shooters. Its not easy to generate a lot of 3 pointers with lineups like that and thats why Buddy should be constantly involved on offensive sets.

We have very few players that can create their own 3pointers, thats why Yogi looks like a good signing. Also we run very little 4out-1in pick n roll compared to rest of the league. When we run pick n roll the ball is often in the hands of a player that wont take the off the dribble 3 (Fox), and we often have a big waiting in the dunker spot and the screener not being a real 3point threat. That means the spacing is bad and the two guys spotting up wont get open since the defense dont have to rotate heavily because there already is a defender in the paint.

I would agree with much of this except I would say Skal is an above average 3 point shooter. He just needs more attempts. JJ the jury is still out.

 

[sactowndog]

The trend is more threes. It was intersting watching the Lakers play the Nuggets. Denver looked like they were getting outplayed until I looked at the scoreboard. They one easily because of the 3. LA went after layups.

Buddy, Bogdon, and Yogi can launch from anywhere. I believe Fox will develop his 3 point shooting ability. Jackson can be included in this group. Maybe Bejelica. It remains to be seen if any of the bigs can turn into consistent 3 p[oint shooters. There are enough talented shooting guards on the team so it is kind of a moot point. Shooting from 3 opens up the lane for the big men.

Beli has demonstrated an ability to shoot 3’s. Not sure why he is a maybe. Skal also has a good stroke and is probably the next in the group.

 

[jcwkings]

Team needs to run pick and roll to get more three point attempts. It just doesn't make sense when the roster pretty much screams modern spread offense. You have a really quick PG who can penetrate almost at will, a bunch of atheltic quick twitch big men who are excellent lob threats(and two in Giles and Skal who look like they might be good outside pop threats too). You have Buddy Hield who is an elite three point shooter and has worked over the summer on his ball handling and playmaking. Give him a screen, if the defender goes under Buddy has an open three if he goes over Buddy has a step to penetrate to the lane and take a shot or kick out to open players if the defense collapses. That's not even taking into account Bogdan, who is the best pick and roll player on the team and sees the floor so well.

I just don't understand why Joerger continues to shackle these players with such an archaic high post system, it's insane and he's pretty much being given a pass.

 

[King Baller]

Buddy was not open. Now whether that is system related, PG related or how the Suns played D is open to discussion.

 

[ESP47]

Buddy was not open. Now whether that is system related, PG related or how the Suns played D is open to discussion.

Gguod's post explains exactly why Buddy wasn't open. Coach's system makes Buddy easy to defend because he's often placed into 1 on 1 iso situations and Buddy simply doesn't have the speed, athleticism or ball handling to succeed in those situations. I've been wanting them to use Buddy like JJ Redick as well because you never see Redick out there trying to go 1 on 1 or take guys off the dribble. They run plays for him and run him off of screens constantly. He's either catching and shooting or used as a decoy, which opens up the middle or other side of the basket for his teammates. Buddy wasn't open because Buddy can't have the ball in his hands and get himself open. He doesn't have the skills. The coach needs to scheme to get Buddy open but he doesn't do that very often for whatever reason. If you think about it, no one was really open most the game. No one is ever open when WCS has the ball in the high post. It took Yogi Ferrell morphing into Steph Curry to keep the Kings from losing by 10.

Buddy actually has more wrinkles to his game and should be a slightly rich mans Redick but he has to be used properly in order for that to happen.

 

[King Baller]

Gguod's post explains exactly why Buddy wasn't open. Coach's system makes Buddy easy to defend because he's often placed into 1 on 1 iso situations and Buddy simply doesn't have the speed, athleticism or ball handling to succeed in those situations. I've been wanting them to use Buddy like JJ Redick as well because you never see Redick out there trying to go 1 on 1 or take guys off the dribble. They run plays for him and run him off of screens constantly. He's either catching and shooting or used as a decoy, which opens up the middle or other side of the basket for his teammates. Buddy wasn't open because Buddy can't have the ball in his hands and get himself open. He doesn't have the skills. The coach needs to scheme to get Buddy open but he doesn't do that very often for whatever reason. If you think about it, no one was really open most the game. No one is ever open when WCS has the ball in the high post. It took Yogi Ferrell morphing into Steph Curry to keep the Kings from losing by 10.

Buddy actually has more wrinkles to his game and should be a slightly rich mans Redick but he has to be used properly in order for that to happen.

Do you think there is a possibility that the Suns defensive game plan played a role in Buddy not being open?

 

[bajaden]

Games. Percent. Attempts
Miami. 29.4%. 34
San An. 40.9%. 22
Hornets. 36.4%. 33
Celtics. 41.9%. 31
Pelicans. 33.3%. 39
Bulls 22.2%. 18
Denver. 35.1%. 37
Lakers. 32.0%. 25
Clips. 27.3%. 33
76’ers. 35.9%. 39
Orlando. 41.7%. 24
Knicks. 44.8%. 29
Wiz. 21.1%. 38
Pels. 20.5%. 39
Hawks. 24.2%. 33
Suns. 13.6%. 22
Kings. 44.0%. 25

Okay I get it’s just 1 game but so far the trend continues of the Kings shooting at a high 3 point percentage with low attempts. Why aren’t guys like Giles and Skal getting more pick and pops for 3? Why aren’t we kicking the ball out to Buddy and Yogi for open looks?

Of the teams with fewer attempts one shoots 13.6% and the other 22.2% while we shoot 44%. Sadly Grant and Doug are so busy hyping the team you can’t get a decent discussion or insight on this issue.

So let’s discuss here, do you blame Joeger or Fox?

If we were 20 games into the season, this would warrant conversation, but to bring it now, after on game, and that game being a preseason game, is totally ridiculous.

 

[SacTownKid]

The shots you get have everything do with coaching and system.

 

[ESP47]

Do you think there is a possibility that the Suns defensive game plan played a role in Buddy not being open?

Of course and I would say that's the case if the Kings were running Buddy off of screens or running pick and rolls while Buddy was in the corner ready to receive the drive and kick pass but that wasn't the case most the time. Many of the first half possessions were of the big man in the high post, no one open, hot potato "you figure it out" variety of offensive sets that are normally ran. If Hield was coming off of double screens and the Suns were switching effectively and defending him well, I'd just chalk it up to a good game defensively by the Suns. The reason why all teams look good defending the Kings is because their offense is incredibly easy to defend.

I don't know if you're a football fan but it's sort of like one read QB like Kaepernick. He drops back and looks for his first read, if that receiver isn't open, he panics and starts running. The majority of the Kings offense is set up the same way. If WCS or whatever big can't find an open cutter from the high post, then they just start passing the ball around to see who can take their guy 1 on 1. Problem is that most of these guys can't do anything in ISO situations. Fox can, Mason tries and Ferrell can to an extent but none of our other guys have the speed or ball handling to be able to do it consistently.

Watch Houston sometime. They'll have nothing going and there's 7 seconds left on the shot clock. Harden will have the ball straight ahead at the 3 point line and they'll run Capela out for a quick pick and roll as kind of a last second desperation attempt at a good look at the basket. It's one of the most simplistic ways to get a guy open. The Kings don't do that very often and the only explanation we've ever heard as for why as been Joerger saying they won't learn anything by running pick and rolls all year.

 

[SacTownKid]

Gguod's post explains exactly why Buddy wasn't open. Coach's system makes Buddy easy to defend because he's often placed into 1 on 1 iso situations and Buddy simply doesn't have the speed, athleticism or ball handling to succeed in those situations. I've been wanting them to use Buddy like JJ Redick as well because you never see Redick out there trying to go 1 on 1 or take guys off the dribble. They run plays for him and run him off of screens constantly. He's either catching and shooting or used as a decoy, which opens up the middle or other side of the basket for his teammates. Buddy wasn't open because Buddy can't have the ball in his hands and get himself open. He doesn't have the skills. The coach needs to scheme to get Buddy open but he doesn't do that very often for whatever reason. If you think about it, no one was really open most the game. No one is ever open when WCS has the ball in the high post. It took Yogi Ferrell morphing into Steph Curry to keep the Kings from losing by 10.

Buddy actually has more wrinkles to his game and should be a slightly rich mans Redick but he has to be used properly in order for that to happen.

The Kings own bigs plug the paint on the guards usually as well. Buddy got himself drafted number 6 in a decent draft going one on one and moved up a few notches last year doing the same in pick and roll. He can play one on one, like most any other one on one player he needs space and screening. Oh and to shoot more than 10 times. His pick and roll game has vastly improved and his passing looked good in the first game. Joerger had them running the same stuff as last year early on and later went more pick and roll, which clicked. Just like last year. It's time for them to find the right mix for the players. This is the last year for it. If there is still no offense that makes sense there is no excuse.

 

[ESP47]

The Kings own bigs plug the paint on the guards usually as well. Buddy got himself drafted number 6 in a decent draft going one on one and moved up a few notches last year doing the same in pick and roll. He can play one on one, like most any other one on one player he needs space and screening. Oh and to shoot more than 10 times. His pick and roll game has vastly improved and his passing looked good in the first game. Joerger had them running the same stuff as last year early on and later went more pick and roll, which clicked. Just like last year. It's time for them to find the right mix for the players. This is the last year for it. If there is still no offense that makes sense there is no excuse.

He's not the kind of guy who can just clear out space and take someone off the dribble but he's shown to be effective in pick and roll situations. It's just the "pick" is missing half the time. When it was ran effectively in the last game Buddy had a sweet wrap around pass on Ayton and hit WCS for an easy dunk. It was one of the few easy buckets they had all game. These guys all know how to run a pick and roll and Joerger mainly only used it with Bogdan and later in the season after he stopped playing ZBo so much. It can't be used every play but it should be a no brainer with bigs who are huge lob targets and players like Fox who can drive right to the basket with ease.

 

[VF21]

So we're not jacking up threes, wait for smart shots and take them at the rate of 44% and that's a bad thing?

 

[Gguod]

So we're not jacking up threes, wait for smart shots and take them at the rate of 44% and that's a bad thing?

Yes. The low amount of 3 point attempts generated by this offensive system is a problem. And thats through two years, not just one game. Good offenses in general create a lot of three point attempts, a lot of easy layups/dunks and free throws. Contested shots from floater range and mid range shots in general are low efficency shots.

Shot selection is a whole nother thing and it has very little to do with this conversation. The problem isnt players passing on open threes, the problem is the lack of them. Our offensive system gets the blame for that

 

[sactowndog]

If we were 20 games into the season, this would warrant conversation, but to bring it now, after on game, and that game being a preseason game, is totally ridiculous.

I said it was one game but it was also a big problem last season. I would hope we would have more looks for open 3 point shooters. So far after 3 games not an encouraging sign.

After 3 games were are 1st in percentage and 23rd in attempts.

 

[sactowndog]

So we're not jacking up threes, wait for smart shots and take them at the rate of 44% and that's a bad thing?

Yes if you are shooting that high you could drop your percentage a couple points and still be ahead.

 

[ESP47]

Yes if you are shooting that high you could drop your percentage a couple points and still be ahead.

It would be better to be 15th in percentage and 10th in attempts than where the Kings usually wind up. You have to shoot a really high percentage from 2 to be able to match a 35% 3 point shooter.

 

[The_Jamal]

I said it was one game but it was also a big problem last season. I would hope we would have more looks for open 3 point shooters. So far after 3 games not an encouraging sign.

After 3 games were are 1st in percentage and 23rd in attempts.

This is without 3 of our 4 best shooters playing too. Think this will be important to track during the season to evaluate Joerger; if we're in the top 10 in 3pt% but bottom 10 in attempts 20-30 games in, that's a big failure on his offensive scheme.

 

[sactowndog]

This is without 3 of our 4 best shooters playing too. Think this will be important to track during the season to evaluate Joerger; if we're in the top 10 in 3pt% but bottom 10 in attempts 20-30 games in, that's a big failure on his offensive scheme.

Yeah hard to understand why we don’t have more staggered double screens for Buddy with Giles/Skal fading for 3 and Willie/Bagley rolling to the hoop.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yeah hard to understand why we don’t have more staggered double screens for Buddy with Giles/Skal fading for 3 and Willie/Bagley rolling to the hoop.

It's getting really discouraging. Thinking we have the bones for a freaking awesome offensive team here with a creative coach that embraces modern principles. Don't think Joerger has that ability to adjust his coaching mentality and play to our (possible) team strengths.

Buddy should be used exactly how JJ and Klay Thompson are used. He should be running all over the floor, getting double screens and getting good catch and shoot situations. Buddy has improved his ISO game quite a bit since his rookie year, but he's by far best used as an elite off-ball shooter with his insanely quick release.

 

[ESP47]

It's getting really discouraging. Thinking we have the bones for a freaking awesome offensive team here with a creative coach that embraces modern principles. Don't think Joerger has that ability to adjust his coaching mentality and play to our (possible) team strengths.

Buddy should be used exactly how JJ and Klay Thompson are used. He should be running all over the floor, getting double screens and getting good catch and shoot situations. Buddy has improved his ISO game quite a bit since his rookie year, but he's by far best used as an elite off-ball shooter with his insanely quick release.

Yeah it would be nice to know how many wins these guys could muster with a modern scheme. Hield could be lighting it up from downtown but instead he's constantly in ISO situations and getting blocked at the rim.

 

[burekijogurt]

ive seen us run Buddy through couple of screens we just dont execute it well though. the screens are porly set, the pass mistimed or mislplaced, so buddy does get the ball but the defender is already on him and he is in an ISO situation...

 

[kingsboi]

ive seen us run Buddy through couple of screens we just dont execute it well though. the screens are porly set, the pass mistimed or mislplaced, so buddy does get the ball but the defender is already on him and he is in an ISO situation...

I don't know of many young players being able to set solid screens, for one they don't have the strength to make an impact, the other aspect of it could be how lazy the effort is.