20-10-5

[Kingsgurl]

Interesting article, which kind of puts a little perspective on the 20-10-5 we take for granted from Chris.

http://www.nba.com/features/complete_players_030327.html


SECAUCUS, N.J., MARCH 27 -- In the NBA, excellence comes in many shapes and sizes. Greatness, however, comes to few.


This season, four leading contenders for league MVP are aspiring to greatness by having the statistical years of their lives.

Kobe, T-Mac aiming for 30-6-5
In all of league history, only five players have averaged 30 points, six rebounds and five assists per game for a season: Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Michael Jordan.


This season, two players -- the Lakers' Kobe Bryant and the Magic's Tracy McGrady -- are working their way into that exclusive club for the first time in their careers.

But does such greatness lead to team success? Only Jordan, who had five consecutive seasons of 30-6-5 from 1990-1993 led his team to NBA championships.


KG, Webber on path for 20-10-5
The pattern is much the same for players who average 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists per game.

Twenty-Ten-Five
PLAYER
PPG
RPG
APG
Kevin Garnett
23.3
13.3
5.9
Chris Webber
23.0
10.8
5.6
While there have been 16 seasons in which a player has averaged 20-10-5, only nine players -- Baylor, Chamberlain, Robertson, Billy Cunningham, Sidney Wicks, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber -- have accomplished this feat.

Again, this season, only two players -- Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber -- are putting up those stellar numbers.

For Garnett, such greatness is becoming routine. Last season, he averaged 21.1 points, 12.1 rebounds and 5.2 assists per game. In the previous two seasons, he fell just short of this lofty plateau, averaging 4.95 assists per game.

Still, KG needs three more seasons of 20-10-5 before he catches Bird, who had five consecutive seasons (1980-85) of 20-10-5. Just two players, Bird and Chamberlain, have won titles while putting up these gaudy numbers, Bird in 1981 and 1984, Chamberlain in 1967.


The bottom line
As far as how these numbers play out in the MVP race, four players have won the MVP while averaging 30-6-5: Robertson in 1963-64, Chamberlain in 1965-66 and Jordan in 1990-91 and 1991-92.

For those who averaged 20-10-5, an MVP is more likely. Chamberlain won three consecutive MVPs from 1965-68 and won a title with the Sixers in 1967. Abdul-Jabbar had an average of 20-10-5 in 1975-76 when he was named MVP, while Bird won the award in 1983-84 and 1984-85, and Barkley did the same in 1992-93. With Garnett, Byrant, McGrady and Webber on pace to make history, only one can take home the MVP this season. More importantly, only one can win the NBA title, a triumph which would certainly further cement their legacies.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Nice article, can't untill the Kobe appoligist high jackthis thread to explain why he is mor valuable than Garnet and Webber. Have to say that at the moment edge is to KG, but it is not much of one givne the Kings record and Web's performance last night.

 

[VF21]

So, let me see if I have this correct...

This season, only Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett are putting up 20/10/5 on a nightly basis. And, in the history of the NBA, only 9 players have done it for their entire career, and one of those 9 is ... Chris Webber.

Well that cinches it. We'd better get rid of him quick before someone catches on to what a snow job he's been pulling on the entire league HIS ENTIRE CAREER!!!

 

[jeffjcalweb]

i don't recall anyone saying webber's been "snowing" the league ... but somtimes numbers don't tell the entire story. webber's largest shortcomings (prior to his injury) had nothing to do with his talent, but what he was doing with it... you can't measure leadership or "crunch" time performance in just stats.

still, webber is doing an incredible job this season and maybe is one of those athletes that redefines injury/recover. remember when an ACL tear (i know its a different injury) meant an NFL players career was over? Now you have some guys able to come back the same season.

webber might be the player who's an example of a once career threatening injury that can be overcome.

to wrap this up, webber needs to hit that three point shot he made last night in a game 7 situation. then you can talk about greatness beyond just his numbers.

 

[VF21]

Whatever. My use of the word "snow" was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

There are only NINE players in the history of the NBA who have averaged 20/10/5 for their careers. NINE... One of those is Chris Webber. He is continuing that pace in spite of what could have been a career-ending injury.

No one has to like Chris Webber. But, IMHO, if you (meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular) continue to belittle him by the standard "Numbers are one thing but he could have done more" criteria, then you're denying the obvious. Webber has done a lot to be criticized for, but if you're going to be so free with the criticism, it only seems fair that you would be able to give credit where it, too, is due.

 

[OHSacFan]

I sit here and try to read as many of these threads as possible because I'm so dumb to the game of basketball.....now football or baseball, that's a different story.
But I swear there are times when I'm reading that I feel like I've opened an issue of "Quantum Physics Monthly".

That all said, Chris Webber is an amazing player, even though he DID cost me $500 during the infamous time-out debacle while at UofM. I've long since forgiven him, though.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

Whatever. My use of the word "snow" was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

There are only NINE players in the history of the NBA who have averaged 20/10/5 for their careers. NINE... One of those is Chris Webber. He is continuing that pace in spite of what could have been a career-ending injury.

No one has to like Chris Webber. But, IMHO, if you (meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular) continue to belittle him by the standard "Numbers are one thing but he could have done more" criteria, then you're denying the obvious. Webber has done a lot to be criticized for, but if you're going to be so free with the criticism, it only seems fair that you would be able to give credit where it, too, is due.

hence my reference to him potentially being one of those athletes that is able to redefine injury/recovery....

 

[Padrino]

More importantly, only one can win the NBA title, a triumph which would certainly further cement their legacies.

word. this is much more important to chris webber than individual stats. he's hungry, and i think he's ready. lets just wait and see what time tells us.

 

[SacTownKid]

So, let me see if I have this correct...

This season, only Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett are putting up 20/10/5 on a nightly basis. And, in the history of the NBA, only 9 players have done it for their entire career, and one of those 9 is ... Chris Webber.

Well that cinches it. We'd better get rid of him quick before someone catches on to what a snow job he's been pulling on the entire league HIS ENTIRE CAREER!!!

I say a package deal to New Jersey for: Brian Scalabrine, Rodney Buford, Jabari Smith, 2 burrito supremes, and a novelty fake beard.

 

[Viking]

Chris Webber has amazed me for years and to be in his "far from 100%" state, still putting up those numbers? Why he's my favourite player.

 

[doone]

Whatever. My use of the word "snow" was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

There are only NINE players in the history of the NBA who have averaged 20/10/5 for their careers. NINE... One of those is Chris Webber. He is continuing that pace in spite of what could have been a career-ending injury.

No one has to like Chris Webber. But, IMHO, if you (meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular) continue to belittle him by the standard "Numbers are one thing but he could have done more" criteria, then you're denying the obvious. Webber has done a lot to be criticized for, but if you're going to be so free with the criticism, it only seems fair that you would be able to give credit where it, too, is due.

AMEN! Well put VF!

 

[Bricklayer]

word. this is much more important to chris webber than individual stats. he's hungry, and i think he's ready. lets just wait and see what time tells us.

That really is the most important thing now. Its just too bad that as he's gotten hungrier, his body has started to break down. Just hope he doesn't turn out to be one of those guys who's window never quite opens because when he had the physical skills, mentally he wasn't ready, and as he developed the mental attitude, his body wasn't ready.

Such a key for him to stay healthy now and keep this thing rolling. Don't know whether he can physically face down KG or Duncan at this point, but if he can stay healthy and hungry until the playoffs, I'm willing to take my chances with a guy who wants it badly as our leader.

 

[Padrino]

That really is the most important thing now. Its just too bad that as he's gotten hungrier, his body has started to break down. Just hope he doesn't turn out to be one of those guys who's window never quite opens because when he had the physical skills, mentally he wasn't ready, and as he developed the mental attitude, his body wasn't ready.

Such a key for him to stay healthy now and keep this thing rolling. Don't know whether he can physically face down KG or Duncan at this point, but if he can stay healthy and hungry until the playoffs, I'm willing to take my chances with a guy who wants it badly as our leader.

i would have to totally agree with you. it is a damn shame that age hit him so quickly. he's really not all that old, even by nba standards, its just that the injuries have taken their toll and piled up over time. but, despite all the injuries, letdowns, early-exits, and nay-sayers, chris webber still wants to lead this team to a championship and beyond. after all the crap theyve been thru, and all the crap that webb's had thrown at him over the sacramento years, he still wants to lead this team. that says a helluva lot, if ya ask me. and i respect him as a player a helluva lot more for it.

 

[kingsfan25]

Hollerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I Love You Chris! <3

 

[PacMan]

Whatever. My use of the word "snow" was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

There are only NINE players in the history of the NBA who have averaged 20/10/5 for their careers. NINE... One of those is Chris Webber. He is continuing that pace in spite of what could have been a career-ending injury.

No one has to like Chris Webber. But, IMHO, if you (meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular) continue to belittle him by the standard "Numbers are one thing but he could have done more" criteria, then you're denying the obvious. Webber has done a lot to be criticized for, but if you're going to be so free with the criticism, it only seems fair that you would be able to give credit where it, too, is due.

Actually, he's a little bit short of 20/10/5. He averages 4.5 assist career. But who's counting.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Those numbers were SEASON numbers, sorry for any misunderstanding. There are 9 players ever to average 20-10-5 for a season. The feat itself has only been done 16 times by a combination of those players. I don't think it's ever been done over the course of a career, though Chris is awfully close. Obviously, some aren't as impressed with the rarity of this event as I was. I really didn't realize it was THAT spectacular.

 

[VF21]

Actually, he's at 22/10/4.5 but like you say, who's counting. And if you round off the 4.5, it turns into a 5...

 

[VF21]

Hmmmm. Now I am curious. If only NINE players have ever done it in a season, there can't be many - if any - who did it for their entire career. Luckily, there are only nine names I have to check.

I love www.basketballreference.com

 

[VF21]

There is only ONE person who has averaged over 20/10/5 for his entire career. Only one!

Here are the career averages of each of the "nine" named above, from www.basketballreference.com:

Baylor 27.4/11.463/4.3
Chamberlain 30.1/22.9/4.4
Robertson 25.7/7.5/9.5
Cunningham 20.8/10.1/4.0
Wicks 16.8/8.7/3.2
Abdul-jabbar 24.6/11.2/3.6
Bird 24.3/10.0/6.3
Barkley 22.1/11.7/3.9
Webber 22.0/10.2/4.4
Garnett 20.0/10.8/4.4

In case you're wondering, there are 10 names there. Apparently, nba.com can't count.

 

[KingKong]

I'm starting to get a bit trigger happy with this whole rating of threads thing. I can't help myself give certain threads 5 star treatment. Anyway, 20-10-5 is damn impressive, Go Webber!!!!

 

[VF21]

One more note. In case you're wondering, Michael Jordan averaged 30.1/6.2/5.3 for his career.

 

[sloter]

Whatever. My use of the word "snow" was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

There are only NINE players in the history of the NBA who have averaged 20/10/5 for their careers. NINE... One of those is Chris Webber. He is continuing that pace in spite of what could have been a career-ending injury.

No one has to like Chris Webber. But, IMHO, if you (meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular) continue to belittle him by the standard "Numbers are one thing but he could have done more" criteria, then you're denying the obvious. Webber has done a lot to be criticized for, but if you're going to be so free with the criticism, it only seems fair that you would be able to give credit where it, too, is due.

What I don't understand is why in praising Webber you have to take sarcastic little jabs at those who don't like him. I don't like him, but he is doing a good job for the Kings and as long as that's happening, that's great. Webber's versatility and hands are his best characteristic. It is not his leadership, his shooting, his leaping ability anymore, nothing else... his best ability is precisely what those stats tell you. The 20/10/5 stat excludes a bunch of centers who are not good passers, and pretty much no SF, SG, or PG can reach 10 rebounds per game. No one ever questioned Webber's talent, but what he does with it. And I suppose he is doing a better job this season (I say 'suppose' because I have not seen the last couple of games, but there is so much talk about it here).

As a side note, it is interesting that again last night another Chris Webber thread 'miracelously appeared', even though in closing seconds Stojakovic had to do with the win as much as Webber did. So much about this being a 'Kings' fans site.

 

[Kingsgurl]

I'm fairly certain there would have been a Peja thread, had HE hit the game winning three.
THIS thread was an article posting. No where did it allude, in any way, to other players and the fact that THEY don't average 20-10-5.
You are right, Webb's passing IS what sets him apart as a big man. The fact that he can score 20 points a game, and pull in double digit rebounds WHILE finding his team-mates for over 5 assits per game is what makes him a complete player. What is the issue with that again?

I am going to bed now, but it would be really nice if this thread, at least, didn't turn into a Peja vs Chris thread. Is that too much to ask?

 

[VF21]

sloter - My comment about the snow job didn't specify any particular poster. I didn't take a sarcastic little jab AT anyone. And, in fact, I think I was very specific in attempting to make it clear I wasn't addressing any one person. I suggest you read my last paragraph again. "...meaning the generic you and not YOU in particular" means I'm making a general reference.

As far as your comment about another Webber thread mysteriously appearing, what is your problem? Webber, who has been the brunt of a massive amount of criticism in the media, on TV and here on this board, hit the clutch shot and won the game. I chose to celebrate it. That did not mean in any way, shape or form that no one else could celebrate anything else.

Instead of continually whining about your perceived lack of respect shown to Pedja, why don't you start a thread if you want to congratulate him for a job well done? This IS a Kings fan site. Are you suggesting that I have to start all the threads? I thank you for the flattery but I really don't have the time. I chose to address the thing I felt most strongly about. If you felt strongly about Pedja's contributions - and he did make some - you could have just as easily started a different thread to talk about it. But hey - it's much easier to whine and take potshots, isn't it?



KG - I think the thread sloter was whining about was the Chris Webber thread I started.

 

[sloter]

I'm fairly certain there would have been a Peja thread, had HE hit the game winning three.
THIS thread was an article posting. No where did it allude, in any way, to other players and the fact that THEY don't average 20-10-5.
You are right, Webb's passing IS what sets him apart as a big man. The fact that he can score 20 points a game, and pull in double digit rebounds WHILE finding his team-mates for over 5 assits per game is what makes him a complete player. What is the issue with that again?

Well, Pedja did hit the three and a layup for the Kings to go from -4 to +1. It is always more difficult to hit pressure shots when you are losing and the game is over than if you make it when the game is tied and the worst thing that can happen is going to OT. I am not trying to take away anything from Webber's performance, but I'm saying that Pedja's was equally important.

As for 20-10-5, it is just another surprise about another thread about one player. I mean, there must be a way to somehow put all these threads together ?

 

[Kingsgurl]

Ah, I was confused, since he didn't post his comment there. I must be tired, time to call it a night

 

[Kingsgurl]

Well, Pedja did hit the three and a layup for the Kings to go from -4 to +1. It is always more difficult to hit pressure shots when you are losing and the game is over than if you make it when the game is tied and the worst thing that can happen is going to OT. I am not trying to take away anything from Webber's performance, but I'm saying that Pedja's was equally important.

As for 20-10-5, it is just another surprise about another thread about one player. I mean, there must be a way to somehow put all these threads together ?

Actually, the article wasn't about one player, there were 4 players the article was talking about. Only one was a King. I will refrain from posting articles that do not talk about all Kings in the future. WTFE

 

[VF21]

As for 20-10-5, it is just another surprise about another thread about one player. I mean, there must be a way to somehow put all these threads together ?

No. If you don't want to read it, skip on. It's a separate article. We post separate threads for separate articles all the time.

I know it drives you nuts, but - like it or not - this franchise is going to succeed or fail on Chris Webber's shoulders. If you don't like reading about him, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

 

[sloter]

No. If you don't want to read it, skip on. It's a separate article. We post separate threads for separate articles all the time.

I know it drives you nuts, but - like it or not - this franchise is going to succeed or fail on Chris Webber's shoulders. If you don't like reading about him, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

I don't mind reading it at all... it just bugs me that lately that's all I'm reading ...
And there used to be so much critique before against Pedja fans, that I thought it was bad to cheer for a particular player more than the others. But now, since I realize that pretty much everone is biased about their favorite players, I feel better. Thanks, VF.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Then scout the internet, find some articles that interest YOU, and post them. Start your own Peja thread, or other topic. I merely posted an article I found extremely interesting. Must you crap on it? What's the point?