Huerter is at 29.5% from 3 this season. Lower than Keegan, but we HAVE TO thank our lucky stars whenever he has a good game.
[Game] 16/82: Kings @ Clippers 22 NOV 2024, 7:30pm PT/10:30pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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It's unbelievable both Huerter and Keegan have regressed so much and are shooting a batting average.
Caccia
Starter
You can blame the coaches for this loss but I think it is 100% on the players for vastly underperforming. No excuses.
I will save one recurring criticism for Monte McNair, however, for not signing a power forward who can bolster the bench and let Murray slide over to his natural position at small forward. I mean, the bench scored a total of nine points.
I will save one recurring criticism for Monte McNair, however, for not signing a power forward who can bolster the bench and let Murray slide over to his natural position at small forward. I mean, the bench scored a total of nine points.
sactowndog
All-Star
yeah whomever is the Kings shooting coach should be looking for a new job.
sactowndog
All-Star
one criticism of McNair?! Once again the line-ups don’t fit. Too many people whose spots are at the same place on the floor.
I'm not entirely sure it's all his fault. Monk hurt, Lylea regressed, Carter been hurt all year. And the rest of the guys just aren't offensive dynamo like that.
That's where I think moving Huerter to the bench would be such a strong move. Keon is probably never going to be an "offensive punch" type of player, so just rebalanced rotational to get more offense off the bench and more defense with the starters should just be an obvious move
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
If you go to nba.com, look at starter stats, and sort by 3P%, it's easier to find Keegan and Huerter if you go to the last page.
Caccia
Starter
The point I have (I fear) made over and over is that the Kings still have one roster slot unfilled. A contract on the vet's minimum would not have significant financial repercussions. What are they waiting for?
Caccia
Starter
Well put.
Jones2006
Bench
I'll say what I've been saying the past couple weeks - Why can't the coaching staff simply stick with a rotation?
Going into the season it was widely believed the rotation would be Fox-Ellis-Murray-DeRozan-Sabonis and with Monk-Huerter-Lyles-Len off the bench. That 9 man unit very rarely has played together because Brown has been tinkering with lineup literally from Game 2. He doesn't trust the bench which doesn't help them play well either. I thought Ellis finally turned a corner last game shooting 15 3's - HE MUST BE AGGRESSIVE without Monk in there, but he was timid again the last game. Who is coaching the guards? Who is coaching Ellis and the bench? They don't seem to know how to play, when to shoot, etc.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point of the coaching staff being like "our bench sucks, let Fox & DeRozan do their thing because nothing else works" - I look at it more of the bench sucks because they're not asked to do pretty much anything besides play defense. Look at the tape too. Most of the bench's minutes is with DeRozan and/or Fox in there - The whole offense EVEN WHEN THE BENCH is in is riding 1 or 2 starters offensively. I just don't think that's the recipe to success. You can't just total the bench points and say the bench is to blame because they're not playing as a singular unit. I just think it's a flawed offensive philosophy in my opinion.
All the great teams - ALL OF THEM - have a balanced offensive attack. Having 1 or 2 guys take turns isoing doesn't work in 2025. If they're going to do that too, you might as well play Len too if you're asking your bench to do nothing but play defense.
The Kings have no identity right now AS A TEAM in my opinion because of the inconsistent rotations, players changing roles, etc.
I'll say it again too - Ellis shooting 3 shots total after scoring 33 on 15 3PA last game is crazy. That can't happen.
Going into the season it was widely believed the rotation would be Fox-Ellis-Murray-DeRozan-Sabonis and with Monk-Huerter-Lyles-Len off the bench. That 9 man unit very rarely has played together because Brown has been tinkering with lineup literally from Game 2. He doesn't trust the bench which doesn't help them play well either. I thought Ellis finally turned a corner last game shooting 15 3's - HE MUST BE AGGRESSIVE without Monk in there, but he was timid again the last game. Who is coaching the guards? Who is coaching Ellis and the bench? They don't seem to know how to play, when to shoot, etc.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point of the coaching staff being like "our bench sucks, let Fox & DeRozan do their thing because nothing else works" - I look at it more of the bench sucks because they're not asked to do pretty much anything besides play defense. Look at the tape too. Most of the bench's minutes is with DeRozan and/or Fox in there - The whole offense EVEN WHEN THE BENCH is in is riding 1 or 2 starters offensively. I just don't think that's the recipe to success. You can't just total the bench points and say the bench is to blame because they're not playing as a singular unit. I just think it's a flawed offensive philosophy in my opinion.
All the great teams - ALL OF THEM - have a balanced offensive attack. Having 1 or 2 guys take turns isoing doesn't work in 2025. If they're going to do that too, you might as well play Len too if you're asking your bench to do nothing but play defense.
The Kings have no identity right now AS A TEAM in my opinion because of the inconsistent rotations, players changing roles, etc.
I'll say it again too - Ellis shooting 3 shots total after scoring 33 on 15 3PA last game is crazy. That can't happen.
sactowndog
All-Star
some of the problem could be the ball just flows a lot less in this years version of the offense and generates fewer wide open 3’s
on wide open 3’s
Keegan 38.5
Kevin 41.9
on open 3’s
Keegan 19.4
Kevin 25.5
so some of it is shooting some of it is a lot less ball movement and open shots.
this year
ISO% 8.1
Wide open 3’s. 18.8
Last year
ISO% 5.0
Wide open 3’s. 21.8
on wide open 3’s
Keegan 38.5
Kevin 41.9
on open 3’s
Keegan 19.4
Kevin 25.5
so some of it is shooting some of it is a lot less ball movement and open shots.
this year
ISO% 8.1
Wide open 3’s. 18.8
Last year
ISO% 5.0
Wide open 3’s. 21.8
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sactowndog
All-Star
while I was looking up numbers you eloquently put what I was thinking. The numbers I posted speak to your point. A lot less ball movement this year. A lot less team basketball.
but to answer your question I think Brown is trying to find a way to fit 3 players who don’t fit well together. You can blame Brown or you can blame Monte for giving him pieces that don’t fit.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I don't see Huerter scoring more per 36 mins than Keon at this point. Would be nice if he did though
Why?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He hasn't looked like a better scorer and he's not shooting well
PorchSurfin
Starter
My only issue was the said poster always coming on here calling those people out for griping about Heurters poor play once he had a decent game. Like we always say about the refs, call it both ways. Don't just call people out when Heurter has a good game and then go full defense mode when the opposite happens.
But I think I have made my point, so I'm done with that poster (who I initially had a lot of respect for until the petty dropped this year in re: to Heurter).
I just wish Brown wasn't so stubborn this year. He tried Duarte last year, so what's his hold up this year? Doesn't make sense.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
These types of poor shooting games are frustrating and tiring. But logic should tell us all that things will turn for the better. The players struggling to shoot well have a larger track record of shooting better.
Still, despite the early shooting funk, this team is +2.0 wrt PPG and Opp. PPG. If that trend continues, this team will win games at a higher percentage. We’ve seen recent seasons when the team was posting a much better record while surrendering more PPG than they were scoring. And when that trend continued, their record balanced out and reflected it more.
I believe the same will happen here but in the positive direction we all hope to see. And let’s not forget that injuries to Monk, DDR and Sabonis has played a small role. This team needs more time together to gel.
Still, despite the early shooting funk, this team is +2.0 wrt PPG and Opp. PPG. If that trend continues, this team will win games at a higher percentage. We’ve seen recent seasons when the team was posting a much better record while surrendering more PPG than they were scoring. And when that trend continued, their record balanced out and reflected it more.
I believe the same will happen here but in the positive direction we all hope to see. And let’s not forget that injuries to Monk, DDR and Sabonis has played a small role. This team needs more time together to gel.
Maybe bring some actual basketball discussion to the table rather than tell me to get off Huerter's nuts and intentionally try to misrepresent my position on Huerter this whole time.
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That's his MO.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
and their defensive coach as well. Need a change there
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m not sure your point is true. Kevin and Keegan are used to getting wide open 3’s and this iso oriented offense is not generating as many wide open looks.
they can only play the Jazz so many times this season.
Kings are still overwhelmingly shooting open and wide open 3PA this season @sactowndog (since the other thread got closed, wanted to post this somewhere)
Catch and shoot
30.3% frequency
33.6 3pt%
4-6-open
15.5% Frequency
26.1 3pt%
6+feet-Wide open
21.4% frequency
39.7 3pt%
Last season:
Catch and shoot
31.1% frequencey
37.3 3pt
4-6 open
16% frequency
34.3 3pt % (!!!)
6+ wide open
24.1% Frequency
39.1 3pt%
So in terms of "less wide open shots" we're talking 2.7% less wide open looks compared to last season. Since we take about 35 3PA, basically 1 less attempt per game.
All in all, this just looks like we're missing shots. Not a huge difference from last season in terms of play type, open vs wide open, etc.
Catch and shoot
30.3% frequency
33.6 3pt%
4-6-open
15.5% Frequency
26.1 3pt%
6+feet-Wide open
21.4% frequency
39.7 3pt%
Last season:
Catch and shoot
31.1% frequencey
37.3 3pt
4-6 open
16% frequency
34.3 3pt % (!!!)
6+ wide open
24.1% Frequency
39.1 3pt%
So in terms of "less wide open shots" we're talking 2.7% less wide open looks compared to last season. Since we take about 35 3PA, basically 1 less attempt per game.
All in all, this just looks like we're missing shots. Not a huge difference from last season in terms of play type, open vs wide open, etc.
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