11 Man Rotation?!?!
- Thread starter kingsofnba
- Start date
allrightythen
Starter
I think someone might have mentioned it on this board before, but i would love to see Corliss come on for Peja against a team like San Antonio just to punish Bruce Bowen. We know Bowen can play D, but for some reason I think it might be kind of a mismatch up against Corliss. I love Corliss even though he might not always fit, he's probably the most consistent player on the Kings roster.
History would say that Garcia might be the odd man out as far as minutes go simply because he's a rookie and Adelman more often than not doesn't play rookies as much, but I'll wait and see how things turn out, at least we're flexible I guess.
History would say that Garcia might be the odd man out as far as minutes go simply because he's a rookie and Adelman more often than not doesn't play rookies as much, but I'll wait and see how things turn out, at least we're flexible I guess.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Thanks man. MF is dope.Gtronic said:
Entity
Hall of Famer
its not fair to say RA will use a 7-8 man rotation like he did in the past. Simply this team is like none we have had in the past. sure you say we had depth before but was Pollard, Hedo, Wallace really all that great all around. Garcia and Martin seem to have a much more well rounded game than any benchers we had in the past. I fully expect to see a 10 man rotation nightly some nights it might be Corlis and Garcia or maybe Garcia and Martin some nights it might be all 3. But Garcia and Martin will be getting plenty of playing time. This year we also have something we haven't had in the past our OG and SF are both Free Agents after this season so you'd better be looking ahead.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I actually think Adelman may go for a 10-11 man rotation on many nights, and he may do a lot of things based on matchups.
Bibby/Hart
Wells/Garcia/Martin
Peja/Thomas/Corliss
Reef/Thomas
Miller/Skinner
Bibby/Hart
Wells/Garcia/Martin
Peja/Thomas/Corliss
Reef/Thomas
Miller/Skinner
T
TheLoneWarrior3
Guest
Corliss is a good sixth man and i think he should be used.
My question with Adelman is were the years of the "bench mob" an anomaly? I seem to remember having John Berry, Bobby Jackson, Scott Pollard, and maybe even a Tony Delk type come on the floor. I could be crazy but I thought the Kings ran a nine or ten man rotation that year and it worked extremely well.
My question is did RA stick to the short rotation in Portland before like he has here in recent years? What made that team so different than some of the teams we've had recently with great depth that Rick seemed more comfortable going deep to his bench?
It seems to me this teams depth is balanced well. If you have Skinner as a low post guy, and KT as a high post guy coming in for SAR as a low post and B52 as a high post guy. if you want to go small and athletic you can bring garcia, martin, and Hart with those guys, or if you want to go big you can use corliss, as the 3. It just seems like the balance we have off our bench could really be a benefit from game to game in wearing out our opposition and certainly by the playoffs by keeping our guys rested. I hope we do see a 10 or 11 man rotation night to night and I'm interested if perhaps we can see a return of the bench mob years.
My question is did RA stick to the short rotation in Portland before like he has here in recent years? What made that team so different than some of the teams we've had recently with great depth that Rick seemed more comfortable going deep to his bench?
It seems to me this teams depth is balanced well. If you have Skinner as a low post guy, and KT as a high post guy coming in for SAR as a low post and B52 as a high post guy. if you want to go small and athletic you can bring garcia, martin, and Hart with those guys, or if you want to go big you can use corliss, as the 3. It just seems like the balance we have off our bench could really be a benefit from game to game in wearing out our opposition and certainly by the playoffs by keeping our guys rested. I hope we do see a 10 or 11 man rotation night to night and I'm interested if perhaps we can see a return of the bench mob years.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I very much doubt it. I think Adelman will go with his usual 8-9 man rotation. It works well for him and he has the players to do it. If RA didn't have bigger roations when we had the likes of Bobby, JJ, Clark, Hedo, Pollard coming off the bench then I see no reason why he would do it this time around.
We are deep no question, but RA likes to use 8-9 regardless who else is no the bench. Hedo didn't see a lot of time when Jimmy Jackson was around. Can't see 10th or 11th man getting game time on regular basis.
We are deep no question, but RA likes to use 8-9 regardless who else is no the bench. Hedo didn't see a lot of time when Jimmy Jackson was around. Can't see 10th or 11th man getting game time on regular basis.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Entity said:
Adleman has had several considerably better benches in the past -- 02-03, his old Blazers teams -- and he has NEVER been comfortable going beyond 8 or 9. And while people like to rag on him, basically NO major coaches are comfortable consistently going beyond 8 or 9, with the exception of Don Nelson (and it may not be a coincidence that he never won a damn thing).
Think the 11 man rotation is really a product of coaching too many fantasy and computer game teams -- it looks good from the couch, but the reality on t e ground is that players are not automations, not mere numbers or algorithms, and their performance improves when you give them consistency, familiarity, guaranteed time, and defined roles. It takes a while to warm up and get into the game. Playing with the same guys gives you a significant advantage in chemistry and familiarity. And frankly all of that stuff considerably outweighs whatever marginal gains you might make playing your 10th or 11th guy rather than your 9th.
And all of that is before you even get to the simple fact that an NBA player can easily play 30-35 minutes before you even have to think about a dropoff in their play due to fatigue, and so its good strategy to max out the non-fatigue minutes of your best players no matter if you have a bencher who's almost as good or not. We are always falling into the "well our 11th guy is a good player, so he deserves minutes" trap. But whether he is good or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that our guys ahead of him are BETTER -- its all relative. If you had Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson on your team as your starting and backup PGs, then even if you had Mike Bibby too he would rarely play even though he is quite "good". The relative advantage would be in playing other guys, and Mike would likely be relegated to the deep bench as PG#3.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Tell me one thing Brick. Adleman uses an 11 man rotation in preseason and you are so quick to say that will never happen.. BUUUUTTTT he uses a small ball lineup once and you become irate the fact that this will be what we use and we are turning into Dallas because of a one time ecperiment in a game that we won by 20 points.
Tell me How do you god of Kings basketball determine what RA will use and what he will not use. Could you just make a list of the games we will win for me and by how much so i can go ahead and make bets. Hell should they even play the games or just give the rings to San Antonio now since we can only win 50 games and out in the 1st or 2nd round.
Tell me How do you god of Kings basketball determine what RA will use and what he will not use. Could you just make a list of the games we will win for me and by how much so i can go ahead and make bets. Hell should they even play the games or just give the rings to San Antonio now since we can only win 50 games and out in the 1st or 2nd round.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Entity said:
? Maybe you should try putting down the bottle and making this post again in the morning. As an aside, everybody plays 11 man rotations in preseason. The goal is to experiment and not get hurt.
BTW, ovrush, the difference in the Bench Mob years is that we did not have high quality big minute starters. Webb was the only big minute guy. Jason was young and wild, Vlade was "old" and never in great shape, and so held to about 30mpg, Tariq, Nick, Corliss were never true starting material. And so you had a huge number of minutes out there that had to go to somebody. But today you can't expect to tout how we have 5 "All-Star quality" starters and then expect Rick to play them 25-28 min a night. If Rick has horses, he'll ride them. Even if the ponies in the stable aren't bad themselves.
We've got 11 playable guys. Over the season they will all have spots and games. That's different than an 11 man rotation with everybody guaranteed minutes every night.
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kingsofnba
G-League
it looks like williamson earned some more minutes with his play tonight... garcia and martin provided energy.... it's going to be a tough decision as to who sits once the regular season starts... who knows, maybe RA does use a 10 or 11 man rotation... well, at least a 9-10 man rotation...
Fear the Putin
Starter
i doubt corliss will be sitting as the 11th manhe started today and just killed today
what? 18-20 pts tonight?
what? 18-20 pts tonight?
kingsfan916
Starter
yes i think he is kinda underrated because kenny takes up the sixth man roleTheLoneWarrior3 said:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
VF21 said:
Which unfortunately still doesn't change the numbers game.
Fact is we were a bad to mediocre team with Corliss as a starter, and bad defensive team. We know where that leads. So that leaves him back in the mix scrambling for time off the bench with KT, Garcia, Martin, Skinner etc. Simply more players than there are minutes. Somebody's going to lose out, and Corliss is near the bottom of that list as far as having a unique definable role/position.
kingsofnba
G-League
Why not a 11 man Rotation???
people are making reference to Nelie as a coach that plays 11 or more players and not winning a ring...
but looking at the world champion San Antonio Spurs shows that Poppivich plays a 11 man rotation... Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, D. Brown, Rose/Mohammed, Horry, Udrich, Nesterovich, T-Mass... all of these players played a minimum of 61 games... and only T-Mass (at 11.5min) played less than 14.5 min a game... and only one player, T Parker averaged more than 34 minutes... the key of using a 11 man rotation is defining the players roles... so they know what to expect and what they need to do... that way they are still fresh and healthy come playoff time...
this is opposed to RA philosophy of playing his traditional 8-9 man rotation... last year, there were 5 kings players who averaged 36-39 min/game!!! ... the kings broke down and injuries cost them again come the playoffs...
maybe with this solid 11 players the kings have now, RA learns from past mistakes and limits the starters minutes during the regular season... if he could keep the starters minutes below 33-34min/game, i think that will help keep them healthy come playoff time... and also gives the bench the minutes and confidence to step in, in case there is an injury... i hope that RA uses a minimum of a 10 man rotation, with a possible 11 man rotation, depending on situation...
people are making reference to Nelie as a coach that plays 11 or more players and not winning a ring...
but looking at the world champion San Antonio Spurs shows that Poppivich plays a 11 man rotation... Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, D. Brown, Rose/Mohammed, Horry, Udrich, Nesterovich, T-Mass... all of these players played a minimum of 61 games... and only T-Mass (at 11.5min) played less than 14.5 min a game... and only one player, T Parker averaged more than 34 minutes... the key of using a 11 man rotation is defining the players roles... so they know what to expect and what they need to do... that way they are still fresh and healthy come playoff time...
this is opposed to RA philosophy of playing his traditional 8-9 man rotation... last year, there were 5 kings players who averaged 36-39 min/game!!! ... the kings broke down and injuries cost them again come the playoffs...
maybe with this solid 11 players the kings have now, RA learns from past mistakes and limits the starters minutes during the regular season... if he could keep the starters minutes below 33-34min/game, i think that will help keep them healthy come playoff time... and also gives the bench the minutes and confidence to step in, in case there is an injury... i hope that RA uses a minimum of a 10 man rotation, with a possible 11 man rotation, depending on situation...
B
bye_bye_bjax24
Guest
An 11 player rotation is unrealistic b/c it is hard to be effective in a 5-6 minute stint. RA will decide on a 9 to 10 player rotation primarily on the opponent and match-ups.
Big Nasty can be effective in spot minutes, exploit smaller players, like he did last nite. I like him b/c he gets the most of his talent, plays smart and aggressive, know his limits. He should never shoot the ball outside 12 feet. He is clearly better than K-Mart.
Francisco is going to earn minutes from Game 1, primarily at the 2 spot. Bibby, Peja and Garcia will make for a dynamic trio. I can see Garcia splitting minutes with Bonzi Wells at the 2 spot. Garcia will have to go through the league once to learn players tendencies, then he will be that much better. He is far superior to K-Mart as a shooter, distributor, and overall basketball player.
I am surprised the number of posts that include K-Mart in our rotation. It is not going to happen. Not only does he not deserve minutes, he has yet to show he belongs in the league. His shot is ugly. Even though he has great leaps, he finishes weak at the hole. He has no left hand and no one-on one ability. When the shot clock winds down, he plays hot potato with the basketball.
Shareef is just scratching the surface right now what he can do. I honestly do not see a difference between C-Webb and Shareef as a passer, except C-Webb would hold the ball forever, unable to make up his mind, so he would launch a clanker from 18 feet. YEAH - No more black holes on offense!!! I expect Shareef to average 4-5 assists per game.
Shareef also shows good ability to show and defend on the high pick and roll, something C-Webb simply could not do b/c of his rusty knee. This alone will improve our defense b/c we won't be scrambling all over leaving us out of position on the boards. He is very effective at working in the paint to slice his way to the hoop to draw fouls and get to the line. Again, C-Webb could not do this b/c of his limited mobility and propensity to jack up. Drawing fouls also takes pressure off our transition defense.
Tonight will be a good test for us against a real NBA team (unlike the Blazers) and another chance for K-Mart to play himself to end of the bench.
Big Nasty can be effective in spot minutes, exploit smaller players, like he did last nite. I like him b/c he gets the most of his talent, plays smart and aggressive, know his limits. He should never shoot the ball outside 12 feet. He is clearly better than K-Mart.
Francisco is going to earn minutes from Game 1, primarily at the 2 spot. Bibby, Peja and Garcia will make for a dynamic trio. I can see Garcia splitting minutes with Bonzi Wells at the 2 spot. Garcia will have to go through the league once to learn players tendencies, then he will be that much better. He is far superior to K-Mart as a shooter, distributor, and overall basketball player.
I am surprised the number of posts that include K-Mart in our rotation. It is not going to happen. Not only does he not deserve minutes, he has yet to show he belongs in the league. His shot is ugly. Even though he has great leaps, he finishes weak at the hole. He has no left hand and no one-on one ability. When the shot clock winds down, he plays hot potato with the basketball.
Shareef is just scratching the surface right now what he can do. I honestly do not see a difference between C-Webb and Shareef as a passer, except C-Webb would hold the ball forever, unable to make up his mind, so he would launch a clanker from 18 feet. YEAH - No more black holes on offense!!! I expect Shareef to average 4-5 assists per game.
Shareef also shows good ability to show and defend on the high pick and roll, something C-Webb simply could not do b/c of his rusty knee. This alone will improve our defense b/c we won't be scrambling all over leaving us out of position on the boards. He is very effective at working in the paint to slice his way to the hoop to draw fouls and get to the line. Again, C-Webb could not do this b/c of his limited mobility and propensity to jack up. Drawing fouls also takes pressure off our transition defense.
Tonight will be a good test for us against a real NBA team (unlike the Blazers) and another chance for K-Mart to play himself to end of the bench.
(Uh oh...)
K-Mart I think will get decent minutes based on the ahtleticism, defense, and slashing ability he's shown so far. Also he and Cisco have shown they're a fun, active duo all pre-season. Surely that will continue to be used in games, and development of that combo and both players alone. Martin just needs to work on his shot and ballhandling...
Actually I'd expect to see Martin continue to get solid time tonight because of the small, active/athletic line-up of the Suns. That PHX seems to be going with as their regular S5, which goes towards their "super scoring still happen" motto. Same for Garcia.
K-Mart I think will get decent minutes based on the ahtleticism, defense, and slashing ability he's shown so far. Also he and Cisco have shown they're a fun, active duo all pre-season. Surely that will continue to be used in games, and development of that combo and both players alone. Martin just needs to work on his shot and ballhandling...
Actually I'd expect to see Martin continue to get solid time tonight because of the small, active/athletic line-up of the Suns. That PHX seems to be going with as their regular S5, which goes towards their "super scoring still happen" motto. Same for Garcia.
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