AaronPDX
Bench
I'll reassess at 10
[Game] 10/82: Kings vs. Timberwolves 09 NOV 2025, 6pm PT/9pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. SÂŁim Citrus
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You have 8 comments on that page alone, 7 in a row. Was it worth your time telling us it's not worth ours?
Rob-The-Great
Starter
Dont mind him. Hes clearly vested in the team. He can fake not watch all he wants
I think benching DDR over LaVine would be a better "winning" move but the Kings shouldn't be worried about eeking out wins right now unless wasting everyone's time and missing franchise type prospects is on the to do list.
Which seems to be the case so far.
Rob-The-Great
Starter
The argument for benching Lavine for Ellis, who coaches think is only worth 4th quarter garbage min is not something that is going to happen so I dont think its worth the discussion.
I have not seen a lack of effort from this team on defense, ive seen a lack of defensive talent. Not to mention, we are playing some very good teams. If we are going off of just this game, lavine is litteraly prob the 5th problem.
In no such order
Dennis was terrible!!!!
Sabonis is injured and was terrible!!
.DDR is a older slower version of lavine without a 3pt shot.
Lineups are not aligned correctly.
We have zero Offensive structure!
Christie has complelty abandoned the Offensive side of the ball. His strategy is basically. We will score points we dont need to plan for that. Let them free Lance.
Not understanding that a efficient Offense can help the defense. Its not just about scoring points. We need plans of attack. Not pickup basketball. This is the team strengths, not defense.
You want a defensive team. Bench the starters and watch your job go out the door with it
I have not seen a lack of effort from this team on defense, ive seen a lack of defensive talent. Not to mention, we are playing some very good teams. If we are going off of just this game, lavine is litteraly prob the 5th problem.
In no such order
Dennis was terrible!!!!
Sabonis is injured and was terrible!!
.DDR is a older slower version of lavine without a 3pt shot.
Lineups are not aligned correctly.
We have zero Offensive structure!
Christie has complelty abandoned the Offensive side of the ball. His strategy is basically. We will score points we dont need to plan for that. Let them free Lance.
Not understanding that a efficient Offense can help the defense. Its not just about scoring points. We need plans of attack. Not pickup basketball. This is the team strengths, not defense.
You want a defensive team. Bench the starters and watch your job go out the door with it
Life is about making choice right? If we're going to be a "just happy to be here" team then absolutely there is no discussion. Play LaVine for the pull up threes and alley oops and let's not care about winning or losing. If we want to be a "make them feel us" team though, benching LaVine for Ellis seems like the easiest no-brainer obvious move which would have the most impact.
I can't argue with what you have or have not seen. As I've already written before, my purpose for harping on about LaVine's defense right now is to hopefully influence other fans to see that side of the game with more focus. I don't think LaVine is playing without effort, I know he is playing without effort because it's absolutely indisputably obvious.
I'm not going just off of this game, but okay I will grant you that premise...
Dennis has been terrible in general. He's a drive and kick guy though and in this game the group around him in the first quarter was Sabonis, Achiuwa, DeRozan, and LaVine. Doug is trying to figure out how he can fill that PF role with the roster he's got. He's had a different player starting there in almost every game and the tinkering will probably continue. Having a different group out there every game is particularly hard on the guy who is supposed to be running the offense.
Sabonis playing injured is a given at this point. I would rather he sit a couple more games and get himself fully healthy though.
DeRozan was 3 for 3 from three point range in this game.
The lineups are misaligned because the roster is imbalanced. I think we've all noticed that by now.
I see what you are upset about now. You think we need a structured offense for guys like LaVine to shine. You might be right but if that's the case, then Doug Christie shouldn't have been hired as the head coach. We all knew he was a defense-first guy. I don't think he's incapable of coaching offense but I do think that (like me) he is incapable of caring about the offense unless/until the team starts playing with pride and intensity on defense first. Maybe he can go out and get an offensive guru as his top assistant and rebuild the structure of the offense but that isn't going to happen mid-season which means it isn't going to happen with this roster.
And if you saw that clip of Ranadive on the sideline obviously pissed off during the game and heard that he left in the third quarter, perhaps it's the other way around? Ranadive has had a quick trigger about replacing coaches the entire time he's been the owner. Doug might need to make some big changes ASAP to keep his job.
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Hey, if you're here for the tank I respect it. We can ride LaVine, DeRozan, Westbrook, and Sabonis all the way to a 5-12 pick in the draft and maybe we'll get lucky with the ping pong balls this year.
BUT if that is the plan, we might also lose Ellis, Carter, and Doug in the process and that collateral damage might set us back even further.
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That still gets us back to the question: if you, as a Kings Fan, are rooting for the Kings to lose, anyway, why don't you want them to at least put the guys out on the floor that will bust their asses and try every night? You want the team to lose and be lazy and boring?
Yeah, well, that's at least half the problem: the coaches are wrong.
Oh, trust me, I don't think this is worth it. I haven't checked out this early in a season in years. Maybe the year after we fired Musselman.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
You actually had that much faith in Eric???
Caccia
Starter
The game was blacked out for me, and now that it's over, I see no point in watching the replay. But it's clear that 1) the Kings played poorly and 3) they lost. I have no idea how hard they played, or who was putting out the effort.
Many on here have already said this before in regards to the lineups, but I’m of the belief that if Doug Christie would keep 2 of Keon, Carter, Murray, Nique on yhe floor at all times, we might have a decent chance at winning games. Maybe add Precious to the group now. Work the vet minutes around these guys.
No, that's not it at all. It was the decision to fire him after one year because the team continued the same regression it had been on since Webber's injury or the Webber trade (pick your poison). I think we all knew it was a good run and that a tear down and quick rebuild was the way forward and instead it lead us to nearly losing the team and ... this.
We are now back at that exact low cycle (after only one year of fun) and the choice is obvious once again. Will we repeat that mistake?
Man, I am starting to feel like Christie doesn't have what it takes to make the hard decisions. For example, when was the last time Christie benched all the starters early because they weren't getting it done. I remember when Dave Jeorger would do this just let his starters know that they could be replaced for not playing the right way.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Come on man
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Gotcha!
Just remember that it is Vivek we are talking about here. Don't be too surprised if we do.
fansinceday1
Starter
Keon, like davion, is gonna be fun to watch flourish on another team.
It was sad to listen to the Dlo and KC throw shade at kings fans for chanting for Keon. “That’s why you don’t crowdsource off the fans”. Then they proceed to throw shade at Keon for not being a very good player. Shouldn’t be surprising since they are flabbergasted over why the fans don’t like the vets on this team.
It was sad to listen to the Dlo and KC throw shade at kings fans for chanting for Keon. “That’s why you don’t crowdsource off the fans”. Then they proceed to throw shade at Keon for not being a very good player. Shouldn’t be surprising since they are flabbergasted over why the fans don’t like the vets on this team.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
@dude12 is not...wrong.
He apparently walked out disgusted midway through the game. Certainly interesting times ahead.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Ranadive doesn't want a coach that makes big waves among the highest paid players, unless they are told to
That's pretty crazy. The team's eFG% (excluding LaVine) on expected assists while LaVine is on the floor is a full 100 points below league average eFG%...and though I can't find any stats quickly, I would expect that league average eFG% on "expected assists" is higher than league average eFG% (because assisted buckets are typically more open than self-created shots).
So everybody else just shoots like absolute garbage when LaVine is on the floor - AND they've been set up with a pass. Kind of hard to square that with "makes everybody worse" to me. "Makes everybody worse" when they're being set up? Is this just fluky?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
He can absolutely defend
Joshyjosh31
Starter
KC thinks Lamelo Ball is a superstar because kids recognize him
You know it’s bad when you’re excited for Precious
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
What does the ball handling/turnovers look like? This last game there was definite wonkiness trying to put Domas back up top running offense. He was probably just rusty though.
If the definition of "superstar" does not include "being recognized," then what value does the term even have?
Necessary but not sufficient
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, but it's very specialized. Against stronger guys he can body up. On pick and roll, against quicker players, or bigger players on switches you can see the faults. With he and Westbrook the defense has a like a 122 defensive rating. When Russ is with Keon or Carter the defensive rating jumps significantly.
Super little minutes overall but the only lineup with Keon and Carter together that's played more than 1 game is +78, lol. 145 ortg and a 66 drtg. Not definitive by any measure but common sense would have to play in on the defensive side to some degree. Last season too, the best two man combo down the stretch was... Keon and Devin. Gee, might be worth exploring right?
There is always a gap between what the numbers show and what the game tape shows. The way LaVine plays offense and the way he plays defense are inter-related. He's very good at recognizing opportunities to get a step on a defender and will often move to the space on the floor where it is easiest for him to receive a pass and either explode to the basket or step back and create space for his jumper. The level of quick-burst athleticism and spatial awareness he shows on offense is why I'm so confident in stating outright that LaVine is slacking on defense. He understands angles and spacing and how to create opportunities for himself to score. He has the speed to get out on a late rotation and contest and he has the reach to at least bother a shot in the paint. That should translate to spatial awareness and disruptive hands on defense but he just does not care. If there isn't an opportunity to create a scoring look for himself, his level of mental engagement plummets to zero.
That type of player will always get kudos from folks who only scan the box scores and if you watch them play a little bit, it's easy to get seduced by the scoring bursts and the physical tools and convince yourself that they're on the verge of putting it all together. But then when you keep watching, the selfishness is what stands out. And little by little it becomes frustrating to watch them and twice as frustrating to play with them. I'm going to dive on the floor for a loose ball, sprint out to contest on your missed rotation, bang inside and secure the rebound while you watch and then you're calling for the ball immediately? Nah bro. I'll pass the ball to the guys who are down there in the trenches with me.
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