Withey was Available in the Second Round

Uncia03

Uncia03

Starter
#31
#31
If we have an early 2nd round pick I start looking at players taken around 23rd or so...and I have a list of players that I hope will drop to my slot.
Withey was certainly a guy who I expected to go in the late 1st round, but hoped would fall to us. (Much like Festus Ezeli last year...who ended up being taken at the very end of the 1st)

So when our pick came around Withey the highest guy on my board who had dropped...and I really hoped that we'd select him.

When we went with McCallum, here were my reactions:

1.) I'm really disappointed that we didn't select Withey because he could have been a good piece on this team.
2.) Try not to read too much into taking 2 guards while Tyreke's situation up in the air...it makes no sense to let Tyreke walk. I hope I'm right....
3.) I actually like McCallum...and think that he can be an NBA player...so if the idea was to pick someone the FO felt could be an asset (either on the team or in a trade someday) then it could be a solid pick-up.
4.) My goodness the FO has a ton of work to do in order to fix the glut of guards and balance the roster properly. I hope they can be successful....It's going to be difficult.

So there you go. I wanted Withey...and in watching both Withey and Aldrich play...I have to say that I just like Withey's game more than Aldrich's game. I liked how Withey played at Kansas far more than how Aldrich played at Kansas. I also felt that the Thunder got a great pick when they snagged him a few years back...but I'd personally take Withey over Aldrich after watching them both play.

But McCallum could end up being a very good pick-up for the organization. I'm going to give the FO the benefit of the doubt until they do something disastrously bad. (Letting Evans walk, trading DMC, bring in Ellis, ect.)
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#32
#32
cuad said:
Aldrich is not a defense for not picking Withey. Really? If they shouldn't have picked Withey because they had Aldrich, which they don't, then they should not have drafted McCallum because they have Jimmer, Isaiah, and Douglas.
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Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that Aldrich being available was a reason not to get Withey. My point was that I don't think it's worth getting all worked up over the Kings passing on a guy who has a ways to go to even be as good as Aldrich - IF he even gets there.

Uncia03 said:
So there you go. I wanted Withey...and in watching both Withey and Aldrich play...I have to say that I just like Withey's game more than Aldrich's game. I liked how Withey played at Kansas far more than how Aldrich played at Kansas. I also felt that the Thunder got a great pick when they snagged him a few years back...but I'd personally take Withey over Aldrich after watching them both play.
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I thought the Thunder made a need based pick and reached when they drafted Aldrich. He was a first round talent IMO but not a lottery pick. Withey was probably drafted about where he should have been, in the 2nd round of a somewhat weak draft.

I liked Withey better as a college player (more fundamentally sound, more clear on his role and how to function in it etc) but I liked Aldrich's potential as a pro better. He struck me as slightly more athletic and much more physical which would serve him well in the NBA.

But again, if we're debating whether in 3 or 4 years Withey might be as good or better than Cole Aldrich then where is all the angst from people in this thread coming from?

Personally I thought Lucas Nogueira could have been an ideal fit next to Cousins - IF he had the work ethic and desire to live up to his potential. And I thought Dieng could have been Dalembert-lite on defense with a smoother shot and much higher BBall IQ on offense. Now if the Kings passed on either of those guys I might have been upset. Withey might have been a good depth pick. But he's not worth "losing faith" in the FO over.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#33
#33
The_Jamal said:
Argh, people need to stop. Are we really getting worked up over MAYBE a 4th big for our roster?

I'll take Cole any day of the week. He's bigger, has NBA experience, and showed some decent skills and success during his tenure with us. And I'd be beyond shocked if Cole got more than a $2mil/year from someone. So he'll be dirt cheap.

2nd Round is all about BPA. You don't draft for "need" when your best case scenario is finding a rotational player. Boozer, Millsap, Arenas, Manu are big outliers in the 2nd round.
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Of course we are worried about MAYBE a 4th big for our roster. It's what we do. Giving it a little perspective is helpful though. Aldrich proved he was useful. I don't know Withey but from what I've heard, he is no upgrade over Aldrich and having a 5th big is not only not necessary but kind of how we got into the problem of having six guards in the first place. I think the pick of McCallum was odd also. I don't know what it means except that they thought he was more useful than Withey. The Kings will not rise or fall on this decision in the slightest.
 
captain bill

captain bill

All-Star
#35
#35
I was saying I wanted Withey in the draft thread last night, but I'll summarize my thoughts, since I think this deserves a separate thread:

1- Withey had a phenomenal tournament, scored well, racked up a ton of blocks, and had decent rebounding numbers. He was also the biggest reason Kansas got to the Sweet 16, as Mac was a no-show. This doesn't say anything about how they project as pros but explains the hype.

2- Saying second round picks don't make the roster is a cop-out. The McCollum pick is the only move we can judge the Vivek regime by, since even if McLemore wasn't their guy, he would've been a no-brainer at number 7 for any team. So people will naturally scrutinize this pick.

3- Talking about Aldrich is silly, seeing as we now have thirty guards on our team. If getting a center was unnecessary, what the hell were we doing getting a 6'1 guard?!?

4- A lot of people are concerned that this means the end for Tyreke.

5- TDOS

In summary, I get that Withey is a long shot to be an impact player but am more blown away by drafting another guard. Withey is the natural "what-if" because he played great on a national stage, and has the game that the Kings need. It might never translate, but I think if the Kings picked anyone 6'6 or taller I don't think we would see this kind of blowback. We're all trying to get this new regime's number, and they went and made a classic Petrie pick with their first real tough decision (again, you can't really credit them for getting luck with McLemore).
 
One and Done

One and Done

Bench
#36
#36
I like the idea of Withey, but DraftExpress had some interesting insights that might have been validated by GMs, causing him to slip from the second round.

I like Ray for us. He won't solve our ball-movement problems alone but I think he's a solid pickup who might be able help us for a couple of years. And that's a great outlook for a second round pick - most of them don't make the league.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#37
#37
The fact that most 2nd round picks don't succeed isn't a cop out - it's simply an explanation of why you take the BPA rather than worrying about fit. The goal is to get an NBA caliber player.

Sure, in 3 years if both Withey and McCallum are contributing on the NBA at roughly equivalent levels then we can say the Kings made a mistake by not taking the bigger guy.

But it's ridiculous to say that because of the make up of the roster today that the Kings shouldn't draft a guard. Very short sighted to view things in terms of who fits best on a 28 win team rather than in terms of stockpiling assets & talent.

It almost sounds like people would have preferred a big or SF as the 2nd round pick even if the guy were cut this summer.

The Spurs drafted and developed George Hill as a late 1st round pick despite having Parker. And then parlayed Hill into the pick that became Kawhi Leonard. The Thunder drafted Harden despite having Durant, Green and Sefolosha on the wings. They then dealt Green for Perkins solidifying their front court.

Especially in the 2nd round you go after talent first, second and third regardless of fit and shuffle the pieces as needed later.

In three years we won't have to bother debating the wisdom if this pick as we'll know how good thee guys are.

My money is on McCallum being a more useful/productive player than Withey.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#38
#38
captain bill said:
I was saying I wanted Withey in the draft thread last night, but I'll summarize my thoughts, since I think this deserves a separate thread:

1- Withey had a phenomenal tournament, scored well, racked up a ton of blocks, and had decent rebounding numbers. He was also the biggest reason Kansas got to the Sweet 16, as Mac was a no-show. This doesn't say anything about how they project as pros but explains the hype.

2- Saying second round picks don't make the roster is a cop-out. The McCollum pick is the only move we can judge the Vivek regime by, since even if McLemore wasn't their guy, he would've been a no-brainer at number 7 for any team. So people will naturally scrutinize this pick.

3- Talking about Aldrich is silly, seeing as we now have thirty guards on our team. If getting a center was unnecessary, what the hell were we doing getting a 6'1 guard?!?

4- A lot of people are concerned that this means the end for Tyreke.

5- TDOS

In summary, I get that Withey is a long shot to be an impact player but am more blown away by drafting another guard. Withey is the natural "what-if" because he played great on a national stage, and has the game that the Kings need. It might never translate, but I think if the Kings picked anyone 6'6 or taller I don't think we would see this kind of blowback. We're all trying to get this new regime's number, and they went and made a classic Petrie pick with their first real tough decision (again, you can't really credit them for getting luck with McLemore).
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I'm not. Drafting 2 guards on a guard-heavy team tells me we are less than impressed with what we have on the roster. The matter of WHO we aren't impressed with is the more important question that will be answered in the coming weeks.

My guess is Thornton and Jimmer are on the bottom of the totem-pole currently. IT does Thornton's job better at an 8th of the price and Jimmer hasn't shown he belongs in a rotation yet. You roll with:

PG: Reke || IT || McCallum
SG: McLemore || Reke


I'd be pretty happy to see that. You maximize our top 3 guys MPG and McCallum is only used sparingly
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
And who says McCallum doesn't fit a need?

IT and Reke are the only guards on the team who have any sort of business being a ball-handler for an NBA team. And while IT is most certainly to be resigned, neither guys future with the team is absolutely certain.

One of the major +'s for McCallum was that he had good PG skills, in addition to his scoring ability and athleticism. If we lose either IT or Reke this off-season, I'd def be in panic-mode having to rely on Jimmer or Thornton to be the 2nd best ball-handler on the team
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#43
#43
cuad said:
Aldrich is not a defense for not picking Withey. Really? If they shouldn't have picked Withey because they had Aldrich, which they don't, then they should not have drafted McCallum because they have Jimmer, Isaiah, and Douglas.

Seriously, there's no excuse for not picking Withey. Is having two shot blocking centers a basketball sin? Withey was McLemore's team mate!
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Except FO really liked McCallum the way they were raving at PC. He's a coach's son. You can likely expect him to display high BBIQ, discipline and work ethic. He can handle the ball(unlike Jimmer), create for others(something Douglas struggles with) and defend(unlike IT). Apparently Ray had a scholarship from Kansas and some other majors. Wouldn't expect anything more than back up PG though.
I understand, motor and work ethic questions are what turned FO from Mitchell, given their focus on those areas. Dumars really grilled him about it and was pleased with results - he couldn't wait to draft Mitchell and used less than a minute of a clock.
Withey is weaker coming out with absolutely the same game as Cole - Self is consistent in molding his centers. Interest for Aldrich is marginal so far, so you can get him for under $2 million over 3-4 years and be happy with your 4th big.
 
Darth Divac

Darth Divac

Bench
#45
#45
Meh. Never really understood the Withey hype. As several others have said previously, Aldrich is a bigger, more expierienced version of Withey. And again, as others have previously said, the market for Aldrich is minute, so he can be had for 3-4 years on the cheap.


As for the guard clutter talk, I'm not worried. IT and MT have good trade value, Toney D is an unrestricted free agent, and Jimmer can either be traded for a scrap or stuck in as a 3rd stringer.
 
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Mass

Mass

Starter
#50
#50
Personally, I couldn't care less about Withey. Last time I checked he wasn't a Wilt Chamberlain kind of talent. If we want a Withey we already have one, and I really like him: Cole Aldrich. I'd rather have him than Withey, he played pretty well for us and he has more NBA experience of course. Considering that if we re-sign Aldrich we have 5 bigs, I don't see any room for Withey. Then, what's his ceiling, honestly? Przybilla? I don't see him as a can't miss pick.
If I remember correctly last time we picked a "great" shotblocker in the second round it didn't end up pretty well...
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#51
#51
Meh! Withey is an elite shotblocker but he is nothing more than that. He is what he is and there is not a lot of upside there. The player that we need is someone who will play 25-35 minutes a night and provide us with the shot blocking. That is basically a starter at PF who can play with Cousins, can guard PFs and Cs! I can't see Withey do that so really is we can get a good role player in the second round we would have done great!

As for Cousins' backup, someone like Aldrich has shown he can be that type of guy that can give you solid 10-12 minutes per night and someone who can actually defend his position. Withey will get backed down with ease in the NBA
 
P

ppine

Starter
#52
#52
Funkykingston is irie. He has managed to put this topic in perspective for me. We already have Cole Aldrich. Good point. McCollum is well liked by sportscasters like David Aldridge. just not well known coming from Detroit. He probably does have a much better chance to stick in the league than Withey. We can all now anticipate some trades and free agents. That is the obvious plan of the FA, and they went for BPA.
 
C

cuad

Starter
#54
#54
Withey is NOT just a shot blocker. Oh my god. Clearly, none of you have watched him play. He shut down the paint, not just with blocks, but with good positioning at all times and smarts. Withey rarely fouled (despite all his blocks), rarely fell for pump fakes, rarely was lured away from the paint.

Watch him play. He was on the same team as Ben McLemore. Don't you want to watch him? There are full games on youtube. I guarantee you that while you're trying to figure out which of the guards is McLemore, you'll be saying "Wow, that Withey guy is really shutting down the paint.".
 
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Hallama

Hallama

Starter
#55
#55
cuad said:
Watch him play. He was on the same team as Ben McLemore. Don't you want to watch him? There are full games on youtube. I guarantee you that while you're trying to figure out which of the guards is McLemore, you'll be saying "Wow, that Withey guy is really shutting down the paint.".
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lol, you're cracking me up. I wish Withey luck with the Blazers. Pretty good draft for them with McCollum, Crabbe, and Withey.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#57
#57
cuad said:
Withey is NOT just a shot blocker. Oh my god. Clearly, none of you have watched him play. He shut down the paint, not just with blocks, but with good positioning at all times and smarts. Withey rarely fouled (despite all his blocks), rarely fell for pump fakes, rarely was lured away from the paint.

Watch him play. He was on the same team as Ben McLemore. Don't you want to watch him? There are full games on youtube. I guarantee you that while you're trying to figure out which of the guards is McLemore, you'll be saying "Wow, that Withey guy is really shutting down the paint.".
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I am a big fan of Whithy and was hoping the Kings would take him when he was available. There is also no doubt that he was the main reason that Kansas made it to the sweet 16. However, there is no guarantee that he will be a huge factor in the NBA. I think he will be a solid backup center that can block shots, but he will struggle against the bigger players who will be able to push him around. His lack of an offensive game will also limit his playing time. In the end, we are talking about a 2ND ROUND pick. The first round is pretty much a crap shoot, but the 2nd round you are happy if you can find a player who can make the team. If he can contribute as well, it is a bonus.
 
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