What to do with Tyreke and Cousins?

[funkykingston]

I figured I'd start a new thread for this since the "Who is available at the 7th pick" thread is being dominated by Tyreke talk anyway.

If Evans signs his tender it gives the Kings the ability to match any offer for him. But as I mentioned in the other thread, given the number of teams with caproom and the lack of star players available I think if Tyreke hits the open market he will get overpaid by some team looking to make a splash in free agency. Remember Joe Johnson getting a $100 million deal?

The difficult part is that Evans has a very specific skillset. I don't think he's nearly as effective off the ball and while his outside shot showed improvement the second half of last year, he's still not a great shooter. So do you commit to putting the ball in Tyreke's hands and build an offense around he and Cousins?

Or do you let him walk in free agency as part of a rebuild? And if so, would you trade Cousins as well?

Either these guys (one or both) are the core of a rebuild or they aren't because I don't see either being a role player. Both need the ball in their hands too much for that.

What say you?

 

[Section 101]

Give Cuz the extension, maxed if needed.

Offer Evans 4 years $32 million then wait for him to accept or sign an offer sheet.

 

[Nikolizzle]

Do not let Cousins go under any circumstances. Doesn't matter if he stabs Chuck Hayes to death in Kevin Johnson's house, keep him.

 

[Darth Divac]

I think we should blow it up.

 

[funkykingston]

I think we should blow it up.

Okay, why?

And what would that entail doing this offseason? Trade Cuz for who?

 

[Padrino]

y'all know my mantra by now: re-sign 'reke, retain DMC, surround them with roleplayers who can defend, rebound, move the ball, and hit the occasional jumpshot...

 

[Bricklayer]

Not really that hard.

Keep them. Feature them. FEATURE them. That means no more stupid little chuckers confused about their place in the pecking order. It means a lot more JT/Patterson types who take what's leftover and are happy with it.

The thing with Reke being restricted is teams typically shy from chasing restricted guys if they know they're going to be matched. So unless somebody goes huge with him, we might be ok there. Its hard to see a team throwing the max at Reke or something like that given what he's not proven so far. Somebody might venture a $10. Maybe. We can absorb that despite Geoff's mismanagement.

 

[DesertFox]

The team's in a pretty good spot as far as Evans. Give him a low but reasonable offer, and then think up a number that you will match up to. If the team thinks he's that 2nd star, go up to 4/40+. If you envision he's closer to a 3rd guy, set the bar a little lower, and prepare to see him leave.

Of course, all it takes is one crazy team to offer the max, which should make the decision easier, although still a little painful to lose him for nothing.

 

[The_Jamal]

Tread carefully would be my mantra with Reke. Plenty of teams have money this off-season and are going to look at throwing huge amounts of it around at FA's. Reke is a good price at 8-9 mil/year. But 10-max and we're looking at a major money committment to a guy who's had injury problems 3/4 years in the league and has not put together his game on a consistent basis or at a level we expected it to be by now. Yes, you can make a million excuses as to why not, but it'd be foolish to think that a good coach is the only thing keeping Reke from stardom. He's got holes he needs to fix that has nothing to do with who's coaching him.

 

[Chupacabra]

Hopefully this organization is no longer deathly afraid of going over the salary cap and matches any offer for Evans.

 

[krong1170]

I have a question regarding restricted FA's. If another teams signs one, does the former team get any compensation like in the NFL? I'm thinking no, but haven't watched enough basketball lately to know.

 

[Arco Arena]

Hopefully this organization is no longer deathly afraid of going over the salary cap and matches any offer for Evans.

Hopefully you're kidding.

An organization that isn't responsible with their salary cap is bound to fail. Especially in a small market.

 

[nitsudm]

Nikolizzle - Do not let Cousins go under any circumstances. Doesn't matter if he stabs Chuck Hayes to death in Kevin Johnson's house, keep him.

Cousin's is a keeper - Especially if he stabs Chuck Hayes (Only if it means we don't have to pay his salary anymore. Maybe throw Salmons in there too). I wouldn't want to pay Evans a max salary, but given a compentant coach I think he could be a monster. He's big and strong and built for the playoffs. His jumper has improved but still has a ways to go and if his teammates are hitting more shots, his assists will go up. I say build around Cousins and Tyreke. Maybe, just maybe Tyreke loves Sac enough to give us another chance with the new front office and takes a cut in pay from what other teams are willing to pay him....I can wish.

 

[Goo]

If I am Kings GM this is how I weight Reke.

-If I let Reke walk at around 10m per year, I have IT/MT/Jimmer/Salmon in the backcourt. How that stack against other team? Not very good.
-If I plug Reke into NY, Boston, Alt, LAL, Den, Chi or Mil, will the play off pic looks any different? My bet is Reke will help a lot.
-If I let Reke walk who I am going to sign for around 8m to play SG? KM? Tony Alan? I will take Reke over both
-If I am going to trade Reke who should I target? a SF? a PF? a SG? I don't know the answer

My conclusion is either we trade him or we have no choice but to match any offer. Let him walk will be beyond stupid.
*If we keep Smart he will walk.

 

[Chupacabra]

Hopefully you're kidding.

An organization that isn't responsible with their salary cap is bound to fail. Especially in a small market.

NBA teams payed out an average of about $70750000 in team salary last year. Teams that made the playoffs spent about $77840000. The Kings spent $54421935. If the Kings don't start spending more money, ALOT more money, how can anyone expect the franchise to secure the necessary talent to become a playoff team. Are players going to come/stay here because of Sacramento's small town charm? Are the Kings somehow going to magically become the only team to consistently make the playoffs whilst staying close to the salary cap? Everything points to spending money. If someone offers Tyreke the max, we match. All this team needs to do is build around Cousins and Evans.

 

[Arco Arena]

NBA teams payed out an average of about $70750000 in team salary last year. Teams that made the playoffs spent about $77840000. The Kings spent $54421935. If the Kings don't start spending more money, ALOT more money, how can anyone expect the franchise to secure the necessary talent to become a playoff team. Are players going to come/stay here because of Sacramento's small town charm? Are the Kings somehow going to magically become the only team to consistently make the playoffs whilst staying close to the salary cap? Everything points to spending money. If someone offers Tyreke the max, we match. All this team needs to do is build around Cousins and Evans.

I'm not arguing against spending more money. I'm arguing against spending it unwisely, like giving Tyreke Evans a max contract.

 

[Chupacabra]

I'm not arguing against spending more money. I'm arguing against spending it unwisely, like giving Tyreke Evans a max contract.

But I did lots of math! I don't like to speculate on things like this but if I had to guess I'd say Evans market value is about 10mil per year. Tyreke's max contract would be about $14500000 per year. I know I would gladly eat the 4.5 mil in order to keep Evans's services.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thing is, when you look around the league, Tyreke is a Top 10 SG, today. There just aren't any good ones left. I think as many as half the teams in the league are going to be looking for one this summer, either because theirs sucks, they don't even have one, or their guy is a free agent. That's not an exaggeration. Look at this list:

Teams with star SG:
HOU - Harden
MIA - Wade

Teams with legit starter at SG:
GSW = Thompson 16.6pts (.422) 3.7reb 2.2ast (rookie deal)
ORL - Afflalo 16.5 (.439) 3.7 3.2 -- $7.6mil (3yrs)
POR - Matthews 14.0 pts (.436) 2.8reb 2.5ast -- $6.9mil (2yrs)
CLE - Waiters 14.7pts (.412) 2.4reb 3.0ast (rookie deal)
WSH - Beal 13.9pts (.410) 3.8reb 2.4ast (rookie deal)
NOH - Gordon 17.0pts (.402) 1.8reb 3.3ast -- $14.3mil (3yrs)
BKN - Johnson 16.3pts (.423) 3.0reb 3.5ast -- $21.5mil (3yrs)
TOR - DeRozan 18.1pts (.445) 3.9reb 2.5ast -- $9.5mil (4yrs)

Teams with sub30min roleplayer as SG:
OKC- Thabo
PHX- Dudley
SAN- Green

Teams with SG who is FA:
MIL (Reddick, Ellis)
DEN (Iggy)
MEM (Allen)
DAL (Mayo)
NYK (Smith)
CHA - (Henderson 15.5pts (.447) 3.5reb 2.6ast)
SAC - (Tyreke 15.2pts (.478) 4.4reb 3.5ast)
-- Kevin Martin is a FA too (OKC 6th man)

Teams with no true SG/no true starter:
LAC
UTH
LAL (while Kobe is out)
MIN
DET
IND
CHI
PHL
BOS
ATL


Downside of all that is of course that by my count there could be as many as 18 teams who could be interested in Tyreke next month.

 

[Glenn]

Hopefully this organization is no longer deathly afraid of going over the salary cap and matches any offer for Evans.

Yes. Although I suspect they won't throw away money just because they can, they also won't have the deadly fear of overpaying. Every team with money over pays someone and it is better to overpay than to lose someone who might burst forth some year.

Thee ARE excuses for Tyreke and I'd like to see him assigned a role where he knows when he shows up for a game, what position he will play and how may minutes he will I am not 100% behind Tyreke but I would rather over pay than lost a guy who, under stable conditions, could become a star.

You can't compare his situation to Cuz as Cuz knows darn well what position he will play. He has more stability from the coach than Tyreke. Tyreke has played every position except center and I would tell him he is going to play 35-40 minutes per game and he will be a PG or SG except for an occasional yet rare time when the team might go small and he would be used as a SF, Hopefully we will draft players and sign FAs so these occasions don't occur often.

 

[Glenn]

If I am Kings GM this is how I weight Reke.

-If I let Reke walk at around 10m per year, I have IT/MT/Jimmer/Salmon in the backcourt. How that stack against other team? Not very good.
-If I plug Reke into NY, Boston, Alt, LAL, Den, Chi or Mil, will the play off pic looks any different? My bet is Reke will help a lot.
-If I let Reke walk who I am going to sign for around 8m to play SG? KM? Tony Alan? I will take Reke over both
-If I am going to trade Reke who should I target? a SF? a PF? a SG? I don't know the answer

My conclusion is either we trade him or we have no choice but to match any offer. Let him walk will be beyond stupid.
*If we keep Smart he will walk.

I'm on your side of the argument. I wouldn't want to pay him max but if someone offers him the max, I would think very carefully. Who do you replace him with and what would that person cost.

Kind of as an aside, a max contract isn't the same at this time of Tyreke's career as if he was in his 30's like Kobe. We can't let too many people get away if we seriously want to fight it out for a title.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'd prefer Reke signed for 8-9 per season. We have another year to decide which way Cuz will go, certainly wouldn't extend him yet

 

[Glenn]

I'm not arguing against spending more money. I'm arguing against spending it unwisely, like giving Tyreke Evans a max contract.

I understand but would you really let Tyreke go and take a step backward just as you take over the team with all the excitement of a new era. I honestly would look at letting Tyreke go as penny pinching and that has some bad memories attached to it. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I can't predict what will happen in the next deade but the last guy to cause a problem in contract negotiations is Tyreke. A person like that deserves a break.

I realize a lot of people will disagree with me but I will be interested in seeing what the attitude of the new owners is. We have been on a shoe string budget since 1985. Maybe there is another more effective way of approaching the building of a team.

 

[ParniValjak]

Not really that hard.

Keep them. Feature them. FEATURE them. That means no more stupid little chuckers confused about their place in the pecking order. It means a lot more JT/Patterson types who take what's leftover and are happy with it.

The thing with Reke being restricted is teams typically shy from chasing restricted guys if they know they're going to be matched. So unless somebody goes huge with him, we might be ok there. Its hard to see a team throwing the max at Reke or something like that given what he's not proven so far. Somebody might venture a $10. Maybe. We can absorb that despite Geoff's mismanagement.

Agreed! Keep them both! I would happily keep Tyreke at $10 million. Under a good coach, he is a 20/5/5 player and a building block. Cousins is obviously a franchise guy and should be extended this off season. With Cousins and Evans duo, under a good coach, we have the framework for a play off team. Both are still novices in terms of development. Right coach and GM will surround these two with right role players and feature them as the duo that are the backbone of the team.

 

[andjel]

Unless you believe that we can get somebody better than Tyreke any time soon, swallow hard and match whatever is offered.
Hopefully it will not be over 4Y/48mil.

 

[Gary]

I understand but would you really let Tyreke go and take a step backward just as you take over the team with all the excitement of a new era. I honestly would look at letting Tyreke go as penny pinching and that has some bad memories attached to it. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I can't predict what will happen in the next deade but the last guy to cause a problem in contract negotiations is Tyreke. A person like that deserves a break.

I realize a lot of people will disagree with me but I will be interested in seeing what the attitude of the new owners is. We have been on a shoe string budget since 1985. Maybe there is another more effective way of approaching the building of a team.

It might not be a step backwards considering how bad our team is to begin with. With Evans though it really depends. I am in the boat where I want to try him at SG for one more year, but he's not going to take a 1 year deal nor should he want or have to take a 1 year deal. So if it was going to be a 4-5 year deal I would probably want to max it at about 8-9mil a year. So 5 year 40-45 mil offer seems about right for how he has done. If someone else is offering 5 years and 55-60mil then I say let him walk.

I would probably let him go outright if it was a situation like GS had with Monta Ellis where they had Thompson waiting in the wings and Curry suffocating with Ellis. But since we don't have that option I would probably re-sign him up to about 9mil a year.

On the other hand, with Cousins I max him out. Bigs with his talent level are hard to come by.

 

[Spike]

I understand but would you really let Tyreke go and take a step backward just as you take over the team with all the excitement of a new era. I honestly would look at letting Tyreke go as penny pinching and that has some bad memories attached to it. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I can't predict what will happen in the next deade but the last guy to cause a problem in contract negotiations is Tyreke. A person like that deserves a break.

I realize a lot of people will disagree with me but I will be interested in seeing what the attitude of the new owners is. We have been on a shoe string budget since 1985. Maybe there is another more effective way of approaching the building of a team.

Glenn, I love Evans. He's built for the playoffs. I also think he's a complementary piece to Cousins, given the right coach and vision. However, I am also resigned to the fact that he might not be extended, for reasons beyond my control.
I'm OK with that as long as someone with a similar skillset is brought in, whether at his position or at SF. Unfortunately, that's easier said than done.
I'm NOT OK with it (and I might be first in line to torch new management) if the decision is made to not make any additional changes, and feature Thomas/Thornton as a backcourt. That would definitely feel like a backward step, and that's not how to build a playoff roster.

Too many recent moves have been made in shortsighted fashion - hey, let's score more points!

Having this conversation right now helps, because people can again be reminded of what playoff basketball is like. It's dirty, it's gritty, and at times, ugly. You need a guy who can take his defender 1-on-1. We have that. You need a post presence that can get you that bucket or find the open player. We have that (he's improving, but safe to say he's there.) People don't like playoff basketball in the regular season because it doesn't "score a lot of points", but you can't have playoff basketball in the postseason if you don't prepare for it during the regular season.

We'll see what happens.

 

[pshn80]

Ask the coach and GM. Once those spots are firmed up we will start seeingindications of which way they will be going on team development. I'm more interested in what happens with the basketball operations staff. One thing we know for sure is that owners and their hires will be quite interested in puttunG the best team possible on the floor next season. One important fact is that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Your question will be answered sometime in the next five months.

 

[roasthawg]

Ask the coach and GM. Once those spots are firmed up we will start seeingindications of which way they will be going on team development. I'm more interested in what happens with the basketball operations staff. One thing we know for sure is that owners and their hires will be quite interested in puttunG the best team possible on the floor next season. One important fact is that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Your question will be answered sometime in the next five months.

I agree with this... I love Evans but I'm far more interested in seeing who's gonna be making the decisions than I am in what those decisions will be right nwo.

 

[King Baller]

I just finished watching the 90 minute show from Comcast from the Kings Rally last night. Every single owner was wearing a number 13 jersey with their own name on the back. Tyreke did make an appearance and was classy but reserved which is his way. The Rally was great and I suspect all the number 13 jerseys show that Tyreke will be with the Kings next season. Tyreke said he will be in Sacramento training for next season.

Go Kings!
KB

 

[Section 101]

I just finished watching the 90 minute show from Comcast from the Kings Rally last night. Every single owner was wearing a number 13 jersey with their own name on the back. Tyreke did make an appearance and was classy but reserved which is his way. The Rally was great and I suspect all the number 13 jerseys show that Tyreke will be with the Kings next season. Tyreke said he will be in Sacramento training for next season.

Go Kings!
KB

I believe the 13 was for the number of investors in their group.