A Sonics fan's point of view

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Ah, the Seattle mantra. Everybody else needs to understand them, but they don't want to understand what everybody else knows. YOU gave your team away. It wasn't "stolen". Your fans didn't rally to keep the team; your politicians didn't support the team, refused to partner for a new arena and even told the NBA to "take the money from the players"; your leaders passed legislation to prevent arena subsidies for the NBA after granting subsidies for NFL and MBL teams. Your "billionaires" didn't step up to buy the team when it went up for sale, even thought the two bidders were known to want to move the team.

Before pointing the finger, look in the mirror. It sucks that you lost your team, it sucks that you still don't have a team, and it sucks that it may take a few more years for it to happen. But to try to steal another city's team with the "we deserve it more" attitude is despicable. To stomp your feet and throw tantrums when it doesn't happen is childish. To want to declare war on the very league that you hope will bring a team back to your city is just plain stupid.

SEATTLE blew it in 2008. You'll get another team when the time is right. No sooner, no later. In the meatime, stop acting like stupid over-caffeinated brats with your "pee on everyone" attitude. Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get no sympathy from others.
Awesome post. Sums up everything pretty well. Sacramento shouldn't be held responsible for something Seattle messed up in 2008. We didn't mess up. We stepped up and worked with the NBA which is why we are going to keep our team. The people of Seattle love pointing fingers, but realize, the blame should be on them. Not Stern. Not the NBA. Tough luck sorry.

I also don't get the logic in wanting to go "nuclear" on the NBA. I hope they realize that going "nuclear" is just going to result in Seattle having no team EVER. The NBA has a right to approve relocation and sales, they can do whatever the hell they think is best for the league. But but but but it's binding. But Ballmer. Hansen knew the risks he was getting into when he made the purchase in the first place and the NBA can certainly justify the rejection of the Seattle deal if this thing does end up in court. If Seattle really wants a team, they need to get off their high horses and work with the NBA. They're like that spoiled rich kid that goes anal when he doesn't get what he wants. Calm down and think Seattle.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
Hoopester, I will not bother to copy your post. When you start with the phrase "you have to understand..." then do not address ANYTHING I actually said I don't even have to wonder what it is YOU have to understand. News flash to you and the rest of the people crying for lawsuits and even less likely scenarios up in Seattle. IT IS NOT ABOUT SEATTLE! It is about Sacramento. Micky Arison nailed it and there is nothing left to say. Sacramento did EVERYTHING the NBA asked to keep their team, so the team stays. Now if you want to go over old history (revised or not) and talk about why Seattle OUGHT to have another team go for it but be prepared to do something different or you can expect the same results. If you want to call for boycotts, law suites and ways to circumvent the will of the NBA then don't be surprised if it is a very long time before you go to an NBA game in Sea-town, and yes THAT was my point the YOU don't seem to understand.

BTW... Yeah Jose nailed it.
 
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Ah, the Seattle mantra. Everybody else needs to understand them, but they don't want to understand what everybody else knows. YOU gave your team away. It wasn't "stolen". Your fans didn't rally to keep the team; your politicians didn't support the team, refused to partner for a new arena and even told the NBA to "take the money from the players"; your leaders passed legislation to prevent arena subsidies for the NBA after granting subsidies for NFL and MBL teams. Your "billionaires" didn't step up to buy the team when it went up for sale, even thought the two bidders were known to want to move the team.

Before pointing the finger, look in the mirror. It sucks that you lost your team, it sucks that you still don't have a team, and it sucks that it may take a few more years for it to happen. But to try to steal another city's team with the "we deserve it more" attitude is despicable. To stomp your feet and throw tantrums when it doesn't happen is childish. To want to declare war on the very league that you hope will bring a team back to your city is just plain stupid.

SEATTLE blew it in 2008. You'll get another team when the time is right. No sooner, no later. In the meatime, stop acting like stupid over-caffeinated brats with your "pee on everyone" attitude. Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get no sympathy from others.
Great Post!
 
Hoopester, I will not bother to copy your post. When you start with the phrase "you have to understand..." then do not address ANYTHING I actually said I don't even have to wonder what it is YOU have to understand. News flash to you and the rest of the people crying for lawsuits and even less likely scenarios up in Seattle. IT IS NOT ABOUT SEATTLE! It is about Sacramento. Micky Arison nailed it and there is nothing left to say. Sacramento did EVERYTHING the NBA asked to keep their team, so the team stays. Now if you want to go over old history (revised or not) and talk about why Seattle OUGHT to have another team go for it but be prepared to do something different or you can expect the same results. If you want to call for boycotts, law suites and ways to circumvent the will of the NBA then don't be surprised if it is a very long time before you go to an NBA game in Sea-town, and yes THAT was my point the YOU don't seem to understand.

BTW... Yeah Jose nailed it.
Thank you. What hoopster doesn't understand is that it's not about Seattle Vs. Stern. It's about Sacramento Vs. the Maloofs, and SEATTLE got caught in the middle. Stating that this is somehow about Seattle and Stern, or not understanding how the NBA could leave for a city with just 1.5 million people tells me that you overvalue your own city. Seattle is a beautiful city. But being pretty doesn't make you a better market. Having a few extra people living within your city limits doesn't make you a better NBA market. It's more than that. Seattle is trying to get by on its looks and its bank account, but it's lacking substance. Lacking political support. Lacking class. The NBA can see right through it. When it comes time for expansion when this new TV deal is in play, Seattle is going to have to compete again. If they don't get their act together and they will be on the outside looking in again when a city with substance makes a stronger play.
 
So why DO you think Stern (or the NBA) moved the Sonics?

Cause he's an egotistical prick. Listen, Washington like California is a difficult state politically. There are a lot of lunatics up there, but also a lot of rational, business minded people. There is a reason Washington is corporate heaven, 0.2% business taxes, but its also extremely liberal....its an odd mixture of very business minded people, as well as people who are extreme leftist.

NBA wanted a new arena, which is fine, but they pushed a little too much in a short period of time. The city had remodeled the Key Arena in 1994, and 10 years later they were asking for more public funds (immediately after the city & state put up well over a billion in public funding for Safeco & Seahawks Stadium). If the NBA had been patient, like they were with Sacramento, they would have had their new arena by now. But because of the lefty extremists who have a voice in politics, they pissed off Stern at a meeting up here and he's been mad about it ever since. In a nutshell.
 
Thank you. What hoopster doesn't understand is that it's not about Seattle Vs. Stern. It's about Sacramento Vs. the Maloofs, and SEATTLE got caught in the middle. Stating that this is somehow about Seattle and Stern, or not understanding how the NBA could leave for a city with just 1.5 million people tells me that you overvalue your own city. Seattle is a beautiful city. But being pretty doesn't make you a better market. Having a few extra people living within your city limits doesn't make you a better NBA market. It's more than that. Seattle is trying to get by on its looks and its bank account, but it's lacking substance. Lacking political support. Lacking class. The NBA can see right through it. When it comes time for expansion when this new TV deal is in play, Seattle is going to have to compete again. If they don't get their act together and they will be on the outside looking in again when a city with substance makes a stronger play.
So okay, its two battles, Sacramento vs. Maloofs & Seattle vs. Stern. Both our two battles should have never been mixed together. Its not Seattle vs. Sacramento, and thats what I've tried to do over here speaking with you guys. I've never thought or wanted it to be Seattle vs. Sacramento, I've made my intentions clear, that I want this situation to pressure the league into expansion. I put all the blame on Stern for orchestrating this mess a long, long time ago to prove a point.
 
Hoopester, I will not bother to copy your post. When you start with the phrase "you have to understand..." then do not address ANYTHING I actually said I don't even have to wonder what it is YOU have to understand. News flash to you and the rest of the people crying for lawsuits and even less likely scenarios up in Seattle. IT IS NOT ABOUT SEATTLE! It is about Sacramento. Micky Arison nailed it and there is nothing left to say. Sacramento did EVERYTHING the NBA asked to keep their team, so the team stays. Now if you want to go over old history (revised or not) and talk about why Seattle OUGHT to have another team go for it but be prepared to do something different or you can expect the same results. If you want to call for boycotts, law suites and ways to circumvent the will of the NBA then don't be surprised if it is a very long time before you go to an NBA game in Sea-town, and yes THAT was my point the YOU don't seem to understand.

BTW... Yeah Jose nailed it.
I don't mind if the league doesn't come back if they don't expand to Seattle quite soon, Seattle has an arena plan which is what Stern wanted all along, along with all the money in the world. The league should award Seattle with a team. If they don't I have no problem burning bridges for good with the NBA, seeing Stern deal with a fat lawsuit from Ballmer would be enough closure for me.

It was ALWAYS about the arena for Seattle, always.
 
Ah, the Seattle mantra. Everybody else needs to understand them, but they don't want to understand what everybody else knows. YOU gave your team away. It wasn't "stolen". Your fans didn't rally to keep the team; your politicians didn't support the team, refused to partner for a new arena and even told the NBA to "take the money from the players"; your leaders passed legislation to prevent arena subsidies for the NBA after granting subsidies for NFL and MBL teams. Your "billionaires" didn't step up to buy the team when it went up for sale, even thought the two bidders were known to want to move the team.

Before pointing the finger, look in the mirror. It sucks that you lost your team, it sucks that you still don't have a team, and it sucks that it may take a few more years for it to happen. But to try to steal another city's team with the "we deserve it more" attitude is despicable. To stomp your feet and throw tantrums when it doesn't happen is childish. To want to declare war on the very league that you hope will bring a team back to your city is just plain stupid.

SEATTLE blew it in 2008. You'll get another team when the time is right. No sooner, no later. In the meatime, stop acting like stupid over-caffeinated brats with your "pee on everyone" attitude. Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get no sympathy from others.

Its much more complicated than that.

Sacramento has always had Stern on its side, Stern took sides against Seattle before Shultz even considered selling the team.

I never said I wanted to steal the Kings, I want expansion. I'm not stomping my feet, I'm still pissed about 2008 when the league torched the city, and our ***** leaders caved. I am not waiting around for another 7 years to get the Sonics though.
 
Sacramento has always had Stern on its side, Stern took sides against Seattle before Shultz even considered selling the team.
See this is the problem. Stern was on Seattle's side until his meeting with Chopp. This is when everything changed and Shultz decided to sell. Seattle's anger is directed at the wrong people. They should also be mad at the people who voted for I90 and tried to reverse it.

In fact, Seattle should be loving KJ right. If he wasn't the mayor the Kings would be in Anaheim right now and the Seattle issue would be way under the radar.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
hoopster - If there are any Seattle vs. Stern issues, then you need to look at Seattle for answers, not Stern. Stern didn't make the decisions that cost you the Sonics. Seattle did. You can't lay that at Stern's feet. And you can't just snap your fingers and wish an expansion team out of the air.

Had you taken care of business earlier you wouldn't be in this position. Going "nuclear" with the NBA is exactly the WRONG thing to do. Stern has said VERY nice things about Seattle now that you have your **** together about an arena and ownership group. Now it's a waiting game.

You seem to feel entitled to a team. By hook or by crook. Instead of realizing you can't go around trying to steal other people's stuff just to make yourself feel better, look in the mirror, OWN the fact that Seattle didn't step up previously, and realize it may be another few years to get the league owners to agree to award an expansion team.

All the hints are there, you just have to stop shooting yourself in the foot! Don't be so impatient! It's going to kill any chances you have of getting a team in the near future.
 
Its much more complicated than that.

Sacramento has always had Stern on its side, Stern took sides against Seattle before Shultz even considered selling the team.

I never said I wanted to steal the Kings, I want expansion. I'm not stomping my feet, I'm still pissed about 2008 when the league torched the city, and our ***** leaders caved. I am not waiting around for another 7 years to get the Sonics though.
Rather than saying "what can we do to keep the NBA in Seattle" Seattle basically told Stern to "GTFO then" and he called Seattle's bluff. That's where Sacramento and Seattle are different. We work WITH the NBA and through this whole process Seattle has worked AGAINST the NBA... Even up to this day with that back door crap that Hansen tried to pull it seems Seattle is trying to work against the NBA as if it deserves something for what happened in the past.

Look at the attitudes of the fans.... How were we acting when we thought the Kings were going to leave? Most people here (and you could go back to threads in January) got mobilized and tried to prove to the NBA why we shouldn't lose our team. Now that the tables are turned, people in Seattle are like children stomping their feet and wanting to boycott the NBA or try to sue the hell out of them..


FOR WHAT? What can Seattle sue the NBA for? Because they knew there had to be a vote before the sale. They can't just go moving teams wherever they want to.
 
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hoopster - If there are any Seattle vs. Stern issues, then you need to look at Seattle for answers, not Stern. Stern didn't make the decisions that cost you the Sonics. Seattle did. You can't lay that at Stern's feet. And you can't just snap your fingers and wish an expansion team out of the air.

Had you taken care of business earlier you wouldn't be in this position. Going "nuclear" with the NBA is exactly the WRONG thing to do. Stern has said VERY nice things about Seattle now that you have your **** together about an arena and ownership group. Now it's a waiting game.

You seem to feel entitled to a team. By hook or by crook. Instead of realizing you can't go around trying to steal other people's stuff just to make yourself feel better, look in the mirror, OWN the fact that Seattle didn't step up previously, and realize it may be another few years to get the league owners to agree to award an expansion team.

All the hints are there, you just have to stop shooting yourself in the foot! Don't be so impatient! It's going to kill any chances you have of getting a team in the near future.

Three years ago WE were Seattle. Our owners were ready to leave, had an agreement with an arena in Anaheim and all indications were that the Kings were lost. The NBA did the same thing it did in Seattle - gave the city one last chance to make something happen. In this case, however, the NBA was well aware that the issue was the Maloof's greed and incompetence so they sent in some folks to work with them in marketing and took over arena negotiations. The result was a massive increase in sponsorships, increase in sales and an arena deal with the city. If our city had told them to take a hike, or "take money from your players instead", they would have been gone. We would have had nobody to blame but ourselves. THIS is the difference between the Seattle story and the Sacramento story. Same issue with ownership (they need new arena or they're gone), same approach from the NBA (lets work with the city and try to make it happen before you leave), different attitude from the city (Sac: "let's do it"; Sea: "go f* yourselves").

Oh, and by the way, Seattle folks may change their tune now and say this is not about Sacramento, it's about Seattle vs Stern. The moment your leaders went behind everyone's back and tried to STEAL OUR TEAM, YOU made it about SACRAMENTO vs SEATTLE. The moment you started gloating and talking crap about our city, YOU made it about SACRAMENTO FANS vs SEATTLE FANS. As long as you continue to declare that Seattle deserves a team and it better be the Kings because <insert lame Seattle reasoning here>, YOU continue to make this PERSONAL and Seattle fans get ZERO sympathy from me.

I'm sure once the vote is done everyone in Seattle will say it never was about Sacramento. I'm sure once Seattle gets their expansion team (which they will if they stop acting stupid) everyone in Seattle will claim vitcory, say they never wanted the Kings, they're a crappy team, etc. and this was always about expansion.

Like I said in an earlier post, SEATTLE blew it. The sooner you all accept that, the better off you'll all be. The sooner you work with the league and show them you are a viable market, willing to get along with the rest of the owners, the sooner you'll get your team. But nooo... you had to go meddle on another city's affairs in order to "right" your "wrong" and stick it to Stern/NBA. Now you stuck your hand in the fire, got burnt and complain that things NEVER go your way.
 
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Ah, the Seattle mantra. Everybody else needs to understand them, but they don't want to understand what everybody else knows. YOU gave your team away. It wasn't "stolen". Your fans didn't rally to keep the team; your politicians didn't support the team, refused to partner for a new arena and even told the NBA to "take the money from the players"; your leaders passed legislation to prevent arena subsidies for the NBA after granting subsidies for NFL and MBL teams. Your "billionaires" didn't step up to buy the team when it went up for sale, even thought the two bidders were known to want to move the team.

Before pointing the finger, look in the mirror. It sucks that you lost your team, it sucks that you still don't have a team, and it sucks that it may take a few more years for it to happen. But to try to steal another city's team with the "we deserve it more" attitude is despicable. To stomp your feet and throw tantrums when it doesn't happen is childish. To want to declare war on the very league that you hope will bring a team back to your city is just plain stupid.

SEATTLE blew it in 2008. You'll get another team when the time is right. No sooner, no later. In the meatime, stop acting like stupid over-caffeinated brats with your "pee on everyone" attitude. Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get no sympathy from others.
Well said.
 
hoopser (and the rest of the Seattle folk) Stop blaming Stern and look in the collective mirror! I am so sick of Stern hates us, Stern has a Napoleon complex, Stern sold his soul to the devil at a cross roads in Mississippi, Stern eats babies, Stern peed in my corn flakes ad nausium. News flash kids, Stern went to Seattle to try to make an arena deal happen to SAVE your team, the STATE and CITY said no thanks. Stern did NOT tell Shultz/Bennet to build the arena themselves and pay for it out of players pockets, that was YOU (collectively) Stern did not TELL Shultz to sell to Bennett, NO ONE in Seattle including Hansen Balmer WANTED to buy the team from Shultz. STERN did NOT tell Bennet to move the team. SEATTLE could/would not make an offer to save their own team because the State/City would not spend a dime and Balemr for all his money would not go forward with out government subsidy.

This is where the LONG UGLY look in the mirror starts. So rather than look at what Seattle did WRONG in order to learn from their mistakes and maybe get another team, Chris Daniels and other local media cry babies immediately begin revisionist history claiming the Balmer offer was not allowed by the NBA and thus the BLAME STERN meme began. These yahoos would rather say something popular in their own backyard than tell the hard truths that might benifit their community. They would rather make this about some irrational, egotistical tyrant who hates Seattle and will do everything including Salmon kills and traffic jams to harm the city... in short the Stern that never was. Because the rational discussion of how do we go about getting a team in the shortest possible time will not sell add time on news 5. No one up there wants to hear that Hansen and Ballmer had a BAD strategy, and they trusted the the most notorious lairs in the NBA. Seattle needs to realize they trusted a den of snakes and got bit. The Maloofs KNEW that if Sac put a good offer on the table the Sea deal would fall apart BUT if they could con a couple of guys into setting the price at 200 mill above market value then they could walk with a profit. Hansen and Balmer were NOT heroes, they were chumps. They talked to lawyers, accountants, and leverage buy out guys but what they apparently did NOT do was get advice from the NBA or any the NBA owners (other than the Maloofs).

So go ahead and blame Stern for all your problems if it makes you feel good. But if you WANT an NBA team then wake up. Your enemy is NOT David Stern, If you want to know where the problem is look at Frank Chopp, Mayor Nickles, Chris Daniels, Dah_Knee, Brian at Stomachs-Rising, Softy Mahler and the host of other local sports/news folks that have mishandled the story. And yes you may well need to blame Chris Hansen and the fans that would rather make noise on line than in an arena. Seattle once was a great NBA city, I went to several games in the old Key, but I honestly fear that local news and on line hacks are poisoning the well to the point that the city may NOT be viable. I know if I was the Mayor or a buyer in Vancouver and I wanted to snag an expansion team I would be collecting tape (figuratively) and screen shooting online postings to establish how toxic the environment is in Seattle to give my city the edge.
 
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I don't mind if the league doesn't come back if they don't expand to Seattle quite soon, Seattle has an arena plan which is what Stern wanted all along, along with all the money in the world. The league should award Seattle with a team. If they don't I have no problem burning bridges for good with the NBA, seeing Stern deal with a fat lawsuit from Ballmer would be enough closure for me.

It was ALWAYS about the arena for Seattle, always.
I don't live in Sacramento, but I have been 100% on their side from I became a Kings fan in 2002. I also followed the Seattle story when it came out, though not in detail.

I would like to hear your opinion on the sequence of events that led to the Sonics leaving Seattle. Honestly, you have not said anything about that beyond cursing David Stern and saying it's all his fault. Many of the Sactown posters here have posted about how Seattle screwed the pooch by telling the league in essence to sod off, while Sacramento did everything it could to work with what the league wanted. Is that true? Why did Seattle tell the league to sod off back when the Sonics were sold and the arena deal was rejected by Seattle, if you are now saying it was always about the arena?
 
Hoopster, could you take a look at this timeline and incorporate it into your reply to my previous post please?
Having read this, my relatively unbiased opinion is that while Clay Bennett may have been a bit sneaky, he did not drop to Maloofian levels. If the Seattle city leadership team had made some sort of gesture to assist the Sonics rather than "hoping something might happen" and trying to keep the status quo, then they would have had more leverage to cry foul. By doing nothing, they made it easier for Bennett to plead his case to the NBA to allow relocation. It is clear that the fans got reamed in all of this. I won't even say "they should have mobilized like Sacramento fans did" because that is not a fair statement; fans will do what they can and feel motivated to do.

Plus, your mayor Nickels SETTLED with Bennett! How the heck can you be angry with the NBA and with Bennett, but you aren't angry with the man who settled and sold out the Sonics? If KJ had settled with the Maloofs to release all obligations and let them roll out of town with the Kings, he'd never be able to set foot in Sacramento again. Why haven't you mentioned that in this thread thus far?

I'm going to copy and past the last part of that link with the author's comments, with the moderator's permission:
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So what can a Sacramento Kings fan take from all of that?

The Citizens of Seattle who were actual Sonics fans rocked and showed unwavering support for their team, but it wasn't enough.

Schutz and Stern tried to get a state public subsidy for an amount MUCH less than had already been given by the state for MLB and NFL arenas. Had this been agreed to, or even negotiated on, the Sonics would still be in Seattle.

The City of Seattle never offered a new subsidy either, but they had put $74.5M previously into a renovation of Key Arena, even though the $7.4M a year for 10 years it worked out to for the renovation apparently was only able to keep the arena viable for 10 years.

Everyone in Seattle should have known from the beginning that Bennett's greatest desire was to have a team in OKC.

With that said, Bennett said from the beginning that he would only try to make things work in Seattle for 12 months and after that he would have to look at relocating.

Whether fans, media or public leaders felt Bennett's Renton arena plan was a valid plan or not, the truth of the matter is that NO alternative funding plan was ever consummated to counter Bennett's proposal, and in fact a new law was passed by a super majority of citizens stating they wished to make it even harder to publicly support professional sports arenas.

Bennett did wait over 12 months before trying to break the Key Arena lease in order to move the team.

There was no public support for subsidies nor city nor state leader support during the entire process.

Stern, from day one, made no bones about it that a subsidy would be necessary if the team were to remain in Seattle. To claim Stern somehow lied or misled about this is disingenuous. One may not agree that a new arena was actually necessary, but one can't say Stern didn't make himself clear on what the NBA's priority was on the subject.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Which leads us finally to what Sacramento did right.

As soon as the Maloofs made it clear that the team was actually for sale:

1)The Citizens of Sacramento who were actual Kings fans rocked and showed unwavering support for their team, but it wasn't enough.

2) Sacramento's Mayor made it clear he would do ANYTHING to keep the Kings in town.

3) The CA State legislature made it clear that they would support efforts to streamline keeping the Kings in town.

4) Sacramento City, encouraged by a strong grassroots presence, attracted multiple viable owners willing to pay substantial money to not only buy the team at a previously unheard of price to keep the team in town, but put $1 billion in total money into a combined arena plan and development around the arena and in the city.

5) Sacramento City agreed to provide a substantial public subsidy, not just a loan, to partner with the new ownership group.

In fact, not only did the mayor, citizens and City of Sacramento come up with all of this after the Maloofs indicated they were willing to sell, but they came up with a similar NBA approved plan BEFORE the Maloofs were willing to sell two years previously!

Where Seattle leaders believed they shouldn't have to do anything to keep their team, Sacramento leaders went above and beyond to meet every desire of the NBA.

And with the recent revelation by the Miami heat owner that keeping a team in their city is always the first desire of the NBA as long as the other needs are met, it is clear now why Sacramento, it appears, will keep their team while Seattle could not.

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It's that simple my brother. Remove the beam from your own eye, fix the problems in your own city, work with the league that will run whatever team comes there, and you shall get your hearts desire.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I know a few other (Kings Fans) lived in the PNW when the Sonics moved to OKC so hopefully they can remind me if I'm wrong or not. Because as I remember it the whole thing was accepted with an aura of inevitability. There was no pronounced fight to keep the team in Seattle. The whole time I was stunned thinking this couldn't actually be happening, this team with a good history, a promising future core and a strong regional rivalry in a big city just going off to OKC and yet there was pretty much nothing done to stop it.

I know the history is all in the books, but living in the region it was just surreal that this actually was happening and nobody seemed to even care.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I know a few other (Kings Fans) lived in the PNW when the Sonics moved to OKC so hopefully they can remind me if I'm wrong or not. Because as I remember it the whole thing was accepted with an aura of inevitability.
I wasn't in the Seattle area at the time, but it interesting that you say that. Seattle fans have certainly looked at this whole situation with Sacramento as if it was fait accompli from the moment Hansen struck a deal with the Maloofs.

I remember reading this article/open letter to Kings fans:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...o-kings-fans-from-the-producers-of-sonicsgate
less than a week after the news came to light and thinking how odd it was that the Sonicsgate producers would post something like that as if anything was set in stone. I almost NEVER post on Facebook but the first comment on that page is from me.

And Brian Robinson of Sonics Rising actually attended a Kings game a few weeks after the announcement and then posted that Kings fans were just like Sonics fans, hoping to keep their team but that he "knew" it would play out the same way for us. It was all bizarre. Almost like because of how the NBA allowed Bennett to move the Sonics that they assumed no one would even try to stop Hansen and the Maloofs from taking the Kings.

By the way, I can admit that despite the author's best intentions, there's some schadenfreude in rereading that open letter again today, but what I really enjoyed rereading was Tom Ziller's response.
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2013/...o-kings-seattle-sonics-sonicsgate-open-letter
 
Cause he's an egotistical prick.
Actually, I'd say Hansen comes across as an egotistical prick, and many Sea fans are following suit. It's all ego, thinking they're too good to follow the process KJ/Sac followed, and that they're somehow more entitled to a team than a city which actually followed the process and did every it was asked while refusing to look in the mirror and admit any mistakes. Re-writing history and blaming Stern for your own failures while throwing temper tantrums comes across as both egotistical and adolescent. Just this mentality that everyone is out to get you instead of asking yourself what could we have done differently is quite egotistical.

The amazing thing is Sea might not have learned from its own history and mistakes, and might tell the NBA to F off for the second time by considering lawsuits and suing. It would be a huge mistake, and it comes from being completely self absorbed instead of taking a step back and learning from what a guy like KJ did.
 
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Three years ago WE were Seattle. Our owners were ready to leave, had an agreement with an arena in Anaheim and all indications were that the Kings were lost. The NBA did the same thing it did in Seattle - gave the city one last chance to make something happen. In this case, however, the NBA was well aware that the issue was the Maloof's greed and incompetence so they sent in some folks to work with them in marketing and took over arena negotiations. The result was a massive increase in sponsorships, increase in sales and an arena deal with the city. If our city had told them to take a hike, or "take money from your players instead", they would have been gone. We would have had nobody to blame but ourselves. THIS is the difference between the Seattle story and the Sacramento story. Same issue with ownership (they need new arena or they're gone), same approach from the NBA (lets work with the city and try to make it happen before you leave), different attitude from the city (Sac: "let's do it"; Sea: "go f* yourselves").

Oh, and by the way, Seattle folks may change their tune now and say this is not about Sacramento, it's about Seattle vs Stern. The moment your leaders went behind everyone's back and tried to STEAL OUR TEAM, YOU made it about SACRAMENTO vs SEATTLE. The moment you started gloating and talking crap about our city, YOU made it about SACRAMENTO FANS vs SEATTLE FANS. As long as you continue to declare that Seattle deserves a team and it better be the Kings because <insert lame Seattle reasoning here>, YOU continue to make this PERSONAL and Seattle fans get ZERO sympathy from me.
That's the thing these delusional Sea fans don't understand. If we handled this the way they did, our team would have been gone and this board might not even be around. I'm completely dumbfounded at Seattle's collective inability to look in the mirror.

Intelligent people learn from the successes and failures of others. If there's any intelligence left in Sea, they'll take a few deep breaths, take a step back, realize they're still in a good position to get a team(start by building the arena) and will attempt to learn from KJ and work with the NBA, instead of going around its back. Is our team still here because KJ issued ultimatums and threatened lawsuits? No, then why exactly does the delusional Sea fanbase led by Hansen think that's a successful strategy?

Aligning themselves with the Maloofs instead of the NBA was one of the dumber strategies Sea could have partaken. All they had to do is work with the league, if KJ/Sac didn't do what was needed, they'd have set themselves up to get our team, and if everything did work out here, set themselves up to get a team in the not too distant future. But engaging in a shady business deal behind the NBA's and Sac's back, then throwing a tantrum when it didn't work out and threatening lawsuits has to be about the dumbest strategy they could have attempted.
 
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I didn't read the original Seattle "open letter" when it first came out, so I read it just now... and they wonder why everyone else thinks they're a bunch of arrogant, self-entitled pricks?

Ziller's response to their cocky "we'll share with you a blueprint on how to get a team back", is simply a masterpiece:

"We have a team.
We're trying to write
[h=3]A Blueprint for How to Prevent a Team from Leaving Your City[/h]We will upload it to the City of Seattle when completed, if it pleases you."
 
Actually, I'd say Hansen comes across as an egotistical prick, and many Sea fans are following suit. It's all ego, thinking they're too good to follow the process KJ/Sac followed, and that they're somehow more entitled to a team than a city which actually followed the process and did every it was asked while refusing to look in the mirror and admit any mistakes. Re-writing history and blaming Stern for your own failures while throwing temper tantrums comes across as both egotistical and adolescent. Just this mentality that everyone is out to get you instead of asking yourself what could we have done differently is quite egotistical.

The amazing thing is Sea might not have learned from its own history and mistakes, and might tell the NBA to F off for the second time by considering lawsuits and suing. It would be a huge mistake, and it comes from being completely self absorbed instead of taking a step back and learning from what a guy like KJ did.
Very well said. It seems like Seattle is making the same mistakes they did in 2008. It reminds me of my nephew (who is 4 years old). He needs everything to happen NOW! He does not want to do things correctly, even if they take more time, if there is something that's fun for him waiting in the wings.

Video games? YAY! But I have to clean my room. Maybe my parents won't notice that I just pushed everything under my bed. If they do then I will throw a fit as I am cleaning up the mess.
 
Very well said. It seems like Seattle is making the same mistakes they did in 2008. It reminds me of my nephew (who is 4 years old). He needs everything to happen NOW! He does not want to do things correctly, even if they take more time, if there is something that's fun for him waiting in the wings.

Video games? YAY! But I have to clean my room. Maybe my parents won't notice that I just pushed everything under my bed. If they do then I will throw a fit as I am cleaning up the mess.
Agreed, I was reflecting on some of the students I had when I taught High School. Inevitably they claimed I "gave" them an F because I did not like them. Never mind the fact that they retained little or none of the course material. I remember one parent being appalled that I told her little darling I did not think about them enough to like or not like them and that the F was earned, not given. You can Imagine why I decided to move on teach college.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
So okay, its two battles, Sacramento vs. Maloofs & Seattle vs. Stern. Both our two battles should have never been mixed together. Its not Seattle vs. Sacramento, and thats what I've tried to do over here speaking with you guys. I've never thought or wanted it to be Seattle vs. Sacramento, I've made my intentions clear, that I want this situation to pressure the league into expansion. I put all the blame on Stern for orchestrating this mess a long, long time ago to prove a point.
And that's where you lose me - and probably a lot of other Kings fans. It's not all Stern's fault. Until and unless you can accept that reality, we don't have much to talk about.

Dave Lack has done an excellent job in creating a timeline of events from Seattle. It's linked above. You and other Seattle fans really need to let go of the victim mentality. At least you guys knew what was going on and what might happen. We've been living under the sword of Damacles for years.

I appreciate that you've come here and maintained a civil discourse but, to be totally honest, the more you continue to point all the fingers at Stern, the less inclined I am to even want to support an expansion team for Seattle. We've worked our asses off to keep our team. It seems all you guys want to do is either steal a team or throw a big enough temper tantrum so that the NBA will toss an team your way just to get you to shut the **** up. Neither way is the right way.
 
... We've been living under the sword of Damacles for years.
I knew you were talking about the Maloofs, so my brain initially read that as "under the world of Dumbasses"... had to do a double-take... I guess it's still applicable.
 
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