Still mad we didn't draft Rubio? (split from arena thread)

[Agent23]

The year we drafted Evans was ranked as my #1 TDOS as I had to take a break for the forum for a couple months.

This TDOS will definitely surpass that year as the most agonizing

But then again this could turn into the greatest TDOS if we get the vote (which I believe we will).

Lol. It hurt that much for you that we drafted the more talented player instead of the overhyped point guard from Barcelona?

 

[Gary]

Lol. It hurt that much for you that we drafted the more talented player instead of the overhyped point guard from Barcelona?

Evans is a good player but I knew he wasn't a PG in the sense of the word that we drafted him to be. My dad went to Memphis so we followed the team very closely. I wanted a pure PG at that time, and Rubio was the purest PG in the draft imo. Also, Rubio has done really well in my opinion. He was injured this year but he still put up pretty decent numbers. He's a decent defensive player as well. But enough about that!

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I was very anti-Rubio going into that draft. Aside from the doubt over whether he'd leave Europe anytime soon, I just didn't think he'd live up to the hype when he did finally come to the NBA.

I was actually quite torn between Evans and Stephen Curry. I was hoping the Kings could find some way to draft both. Honestly, Evans impressed so much during his workouts that I was probably leaning a little more toward him when the Kings actually made the pick. But it's really frustrated me to see the difference between the two players now. Evans is a good player, even great at times, but Curry is at a different level.

 

[rhythmless]

I was very anti-Rubio going into that draft. Aside from the doubt over whether he'd leave Europe anytime soon, I just didn't think he'd live up to the hype when he did finally come to the NBA.

I was actually quite torn between Evans and Stephen Curry. I was hoping the Kings could find some way to draft both. Honestly, Evans impressed so much during his workouts that I was probably leaning a little more toward him when the Kings actually made the pick. But it's really frustrated me to see the difference between the two players now. Evans is a good player, even great at times, but Curry is at a different level.

The 5th pick Minne got from Washington was for Foye/Miller. They decided to go for "win now" mode, which was stupid then, and absurd now. Curry went 6th, and anyone in the league could have given more for a 5th pick. We could have grabbed 4/5, and taken Evans/Curry. Speaking of could have been factoids, we also could have had Klay instead of Jimmer, and Harrison Barnes instead of Thomas Robinson cum Patterson. Moral of the story: GP sucks and we could have been 3/5s of the Warriors' starting lineup.

As for Tyreke impressing in workouts, it really goes to show you why you can't base everything on those 1 on 1 workouts. Tyreke can probably beat any pg/sg not named Wade/Kobe in a 1 on 1 game. He just gets to the hole every time. But in a team setting this isn't always ideal. It also glosses over his ability to move without the ball, cut, make sound transition decisions, etc.

This isn't taking anything away from Tyreke's many incremental, but strong improvements over the course of this season. He was more than respectable on open set 3's, toned down his long 2s and got the ball in the right places more often than before. This all points to a more well rounded player and a guy who can fit with different pieces. The ceiling on Tyreke has always been burlier, more ground bound Wade. Hopefully Curry can keep his health up, but if he doesn't, and Tyreke makes another 1 or 2 good leaps in improving his game, it may end up close when it's all said and done. Right now, Curry is leaps and bounds above Evans.

 

[upinsmoke]

I would rather have Evans still, what makes me lose sleep is not taking K. Leonard but I guess the magoofs thought they could make more money off Jimmer merch after all that hand thingy with the three fingers up is pretty cool. In KJ we trust.

 

[pshn80]

I can see it must be fun to look back like this but not for me. We will be here next year and we have a handful of these guys under contract so we start from there. We will have president of basketball operations, we sign some of our own free-agents and maybe some other FAs. We will draft one or two. We will open camp in October, pick out a starting line-up and start playing. That's the part that interests me. I want no hand ,n makings any of those picks but I am sure interested in who is picked. I have to be patient but I'm not. In the meantime I will read these threads even though I know none of us know what we're talking about. Thanks everyone.

 

[Padrino]

people who still complain about evans' jumper, despite how much it has improved in a few short seasons, clearly haven't seen ricky rubio shoot much. dude makes 'reke look like ray allen. and, injured or not, bad team or not, there's not a lot of excuses for a starting caliber point guard in the nba to be shooting 36% from the field. rubio remains exceptionally creative with the ball in his hands, but, as of right now, i'd still pick evans over rubio ten times out of ten...

 

[Agent23]

I would rather have Evans still, what makes me lose sleep is not taking K. Leonard but I guess the magoofs thought they could make more money off Jimmer merch after all that hand thingy with the three fingers up is pretty cool. In KJ we trust.

The last two offseasons have stunted the growth of this team. Imagine if we still had Beno, drafted Leonard and drafted Drummond!?

 

[KingMilz]

Rubio is grossly overrated, can't shoot, injury prone and one of the worst finishers around the rim I have ever seen, while Rubio is a great passer it to often overshadows all his other floors. His game looks a lot nicer than what it actually is, he can do amazing things but again to the normal fan it might cover up all his floors but hes got to many atm.

 

[rekehavoc73186]

The 5th pick Minne got from Washington was for Foye/Miller. They decided to go for "win now" mode, which was stupid then, and absurd now. Curry went 6th, and anyone in the league could have given more for a 5th pick. We could have grabbed 4/5, and taken Evans/Curry. Speaking of could have been factoids, we also could have had Klay instead of Jimmer, and Harrison Barnes instead of Thomas Robinson cum Patterson. Moral of the story: GP sucks and we could have been 3/5s of the Warriors' starting lineup.

As for Tyreke impressing in workouts, it really goes to show you why you can't base everything on those 1 on 1 workouts. Tyreke can probably beat any pg/sg not named Wade/Kobe in a 1 on 1 game. He just gets to the hole every time. But in a team setting this isn't always ideal. It also glosses over his ability to move without the ball, cut, make sound transition decisions, etc.

This isn't taking anything away from Tyreke's many incremental, but strong improvements over the course of this season. He was more than respectable on open set 3's, toned down his long 2s and got the ball in the right places more often than before. This all points to a more well rounded player and a guy who can fit with different pieces. The ceiling on Tyreke has always been burlier, more ground bound Wade. Hopefully Curry can keep his health up, but if he doesn't, and Tyreke makes another 1 or 2 good leaps in improving his game, it may end up close when it's all said and done. Right now, Curry is leaps and bounds above Evans.

i wouldnt say curry is leaps and bounds over tyreke. If tyreke is given freedom to play how he wants and with the regular minutes he will put up great stats just like curry and with the right coach he would make this team a whole lot better. Mark Jackson gives the keys to curry and lets him do his thing and unlike smart if he gets hot he doesnt sit him. Ive never seen any other player get treated the way tyreke did this season its just inexcusable. Under smart curry still managed to play 33.6 mins a game, which isnt great and tyreke gets a whopping 31 min a game. How do u expect a player to excel getting jerked around by his coach. Even saying that, tyreke improved a whole lot this year and i cant wait to see what he does next year with a good coach and hopefully in a kings uniform. Curry attempted the 6th most shots in the league, more than harden and james. Is that winning formula for your PG to take that many shots? unless you are derrick rose b/c his game is much different than curry's. Warriors wont go anywhere with curry being their best player. You need your best player to be either a dominant big man or a slashing type guard/SG or in a lot of cases both. Lucky for us we got potentially 2 dominant players in the making.

 

[LWP777]

I was pretty happy with Tyreke on draft day but I would swap him for Rubio in a heartbeat now.

 

[beb0p]

I could understand if the what if is Curry or Holiday. But Rubio? He's basically giving you Brevin Knight's production but even worse at shooting.

While watching Rubio play, I've never ever found myself thinking, "Boy, wish the Kings have Rubio." I usually say to myself, "My God! Even Bobby Hurley could hit that shot!"

 

[upinsmoke]

Whoa a Bobby Hurley drop! You dont see that everyday... in regards to agent23's post that would make to much sense to ever fly as long as the magoofs are in charge.

 

[mac]

The last two offseasons have stunted the growth of this team. Imagine if we still had Beno, drafted Leonard and drafted Drummond!?

All that said, I still think Keith Smart has done more damage to the growth of the team than our draft picks/ trades have. While we wouldn't be as complete and well rounded (as if we had drafted certain guys), players TRYING to fill much needed roles is still better than having no roles.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'm mad we didn't pick leonard and drummond

we could theoretically have cousins, drummond, leonard, reke and beno in the starting line up..

3 role players with our 2 stars

 

[swisshh]

Rubio has been the bigger difference maker in the NBA. It's unfortunate about the injury for he was pushing Minny to a playoff chance before then. That entire team was decimated by injuries. Tyreke's game and impact has been nothing but empty stats for most of his career so far. He's turning into the Billy Owens of guards.

Guards drafted in the same draft that I'd rather have than Tyreke at this point or who have risen above Tyreke:

-Rubio
-Curry
-Holiday
-Harden
-Jennings*

*I don't want Jennings, but he's continued to produce and actually run a team.

Tyreke's problem is a lack of tools to function within a team. He suffers from a jumpshot that he doesn't have confidence in nor does the defense and he pairs that with a lack of court vision or PG-mentality. That has left him in the no-man's land of NBA play.

 

[Spike]

Harden is the only one on your list I agree with, who, oddly enough, was chosen before Evans.

Think about it this way. How would have:
-Rubio
-Curry
-Holiday
-Harden
-Jennings
Have done with our coaches? Those players have all had good, and, in some cases, great coaching. Jennings would have choked Smart by now, and there's no telling what Smart would have done with Curry...oh, wait.

As for the rest...

 

[Padrino]

Rubio has been the bigger difference maker in the NBA. It's unfortunate about the injury for he was pushing Minny to a playoff chance before then. That entire team was decimated by injuries. Tyreke's game and impact has been nothing but empty stats for most of his career so far. He's turning into the Billy Owens of guards.

Guards drafted in the same draft that I'd rather have than Tyreke at this point or who have risen above Tyreke:

-Rubio
-Curry
-Holiday
-Harden
-Jennings*

*I don't want Jennings, but he's continued to produce and actually run a team.

Tyreke's problem is a lack of tools to function within a team. He suffers from a jumpshot that he doesn't have confidence in nor does the defense and he pairs that with a lack of court vision or PG-mentality. That has left him in the no-man's land of NBA play.

blah blah blah... same nonsense the anti-'reke crowd have had billowing out of their ears since he was drafted. i can't believe people still criticize his vastly improved jumper, which he's shown significant confidence in, particularly after the all-star break. it's like some of you are quite literally wearing blinders to his growth as a player because you're still upset that rubio wasn't drafted by the kings. it's rather sad, especially given that rubio really hasn't shown the kind of promise in the nba that his dazzling euro play led so many people to believe. it was a lotta fool's gold, in my opinion, though i certainly believe he'll be a quality rotation player his entire career. that said, if evans' stats are "empty," as you say, then so are rubio's. neither team has sniffed the playoffs in quite some time, and there is not one shred of evidence to back up the assertion that rubio is a "bigger difference maker in the nba." not one. but here's a few to counter: he's a poor finisher at the rim. he posts very poor shooting percentages overall. and he is rather turnover prone. sure, he's got mad handles, and he passes the ball very well, but you're not going far with a guard who shoots 36% from the field, with kevin love or without him. truly, minny's playoff hopes were dashed the minute love went down with a season-ending injury, not because rubio's had trouble staying on the court, as well...

 

[HereWeBoogie]

ill take Tyreke over Rubio any day. its the last 2 drafts that screwed us. we should have had Kawhi Leonard instead of Jimmer, and thats not hindsight, there are plenty of Kings fans who wanted Leonard before the draft happened.

last years draft was almost as bad. Lillard, Drummond, Harrison Barnes, (since we didnt draft Leonard and STILL need a SF) are all people that we could, and should have picked.

 

[bajaden]

I was pretty happy with Tyreke on draft day but I would swap him for Rubio in a heartbeat now.

Thank god your not the GM!

 

[bajaden]

Here are the facts. Tyreke is just finished his 4th year in the NBA, and won ROY his 1st year. You can argue whether he should have won or not, but he did win. Rubio just finished his 2nd year in the NBA, so we would have lost his services the first two years. In the last two years, he's played in a total of 98 games out of a possible 164. That means you would have also lost his services for 66 games on top of the 1st two years. Sorry folks, but Tyreke is a no brainer by comparison. I know the grass always looks greeener, but in this case, its not.

 

[beb0p]

Some of us need to be reminded of who Petrie would have drafted if he had decided against Tyreke for whatever reason. Remember the player that GP had ranked behind Tyreke? No, not Rubio or Curry or Jennings or Holiday or Lawson. It was some 6'-0" PG out of Syracuse by the name of Flynn.

Yeah, be glad that it was Reke and not the other guy. And yeah, GP was that close to F-ing up that 2009 draft too.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Some of us need to be reminded of who Petrie would have drafted if he had decided against Tyreke for whatever reason. Remember the player that GP had ranked behind Tyreke? No, not Rubio or Curry or Jennings or Holiday or Lawson. It was some 6'-0" PG out of Syracuse by the name of Flynn.

Yeah, be glad that it was Reke and not the other guy. And yeah, GP was that close to F-ing up that 2009 draft too.

thank god his reign of terror in Sacramento is going to come to an end when Vivek takes over in a couple of weeks. (talking about Petrie)

 

[swisshh]

Some of us need to be reminded of who Petrie would have drafted if he had decided against Tyreke for whatever reason. Remember the player that GP had ranked behind Tyreke? No, not Rubio or Curry or Jennings or Holiday or Lawson. It was some 6'-0" PG out of Syracuse by the name of Flynn.

Yeah, be glad that it was Reke and not the other guy. And yeah, GP was that close to F-ing up that 2009 draft too.

The organization's evaluation of guard talent and team build is outright terrible. The team has had a question mark at PG ever since Bibby left, and even then, Bibby was a scorer in an offense ran through Webber/Vlade/Miller.

Let's look at PGs drafted in 2009 and beyond that the Kings passed on.

Rubio
Holiday
Jennings
Lawson
Flynn
Knight
Walker
Lillard

Two or three of those are lesser players or even players compared to what we have running, but some of them are huge misfires that show a lack of understanding in how to build a modern team. If you throw in Free Agents or minor trades of PG in the meantime, you get guys like Jarret Jack, Andre Miller or a guy like Grievas Vasquez (that I liked at the time) who were traded for spare parts. Compare that to the shoot-first scorers the Kings went after like Jimmer and Brooks, you see how far behind the curve the Kings are when it comes to PG evaluation.

Though them forcing Tyreke into PG for years was evidence enough that they were just sort of out of their wits.

Also, at some point, you know, like when all these other players have shown more in the allotted time, it's not more anti-tyreke nonsense. It's the reality of the situation. I have nothing against Tyreke. I want him to develop a shot and off-the-ball game so he can become an all around player. I knew he was not a PG and I was right. The team needed a real PG and he was not it. The time the organization AND FANS wasted trying to push that nonsense has turned Tyreke into a non-impact player.

 

[mac]

The organization's evaluation of guard talent and team build is outright terrible. The team has had a question mark at PG ever since Bibby left, and even then, Bibby was a scorer in an offense ran through Webber/Vlade/Miller.

Let's look at PGs drafted in 2009 and beyond that the Kings passed on.

Rubio
Holiday
Jennings
Lawson
Flynn
Knight
Walker
Lillard

Two or three of those are lesser players or even players compared to what we have running, but some of them are huge misfires that show a lack of understanding in how to build a modern team. If you throw in Free Agents or minor trades of PG in the meantime, you get guys like Jarret Jack, Andre Miller or a guy like Grievas Vasquez (that I liked at the time) who were traded for spare parts. Compare that to the shoot-first scorers the Kings went after like Jimmer and Brooks, you see how far behind the curve the Kings are when it comes to PG evaluation.

Though them forcing Tyreke into PG for years was evidence enough that they were just sort of out of their wits.

Also, at some point, you know, like when all these other players have shown more in the allotted time, it's not more anti-tyreke nonsense. It's the reality of the situation. I have nothing against Tyreke. I want him to develop a shot and off-the-ball game so he can become an all around player. I knew he was not a PG and I was right. The team needed a real PG and he was not it. The time the organization AND FANS wasted trying to push that nonsense has turned Tyreke into a non-impact player.

You had me somewhat agreeing with you right till that last sentence. Now say what you will about the TEAM's development, but as far as Tyreke's impact goes taking him off the ball has done the most damage. Dumping him in the corner as SF and pairing him with a PG that does not pass the ball.

 

[Dreadnought]

I have given up on Tyreke being a superstar type of player. Anyone that thinks he can still be at top NBA player is just expecting a little too much. I doubt he'll ever make an All-Star game.

I will say, his rookie season was really something. It was the best season of Kings basketball since the last time we were in the playoffs. Considering how many musical chairs were being played in the All-Star game that year due to injuries, I really think he should have made it on.

 

[swisshh]

You had me somewhat agreeing with you right till that last sentence. Now say what you will about the TEAM's development, but as far as Tyreke's impact goes taking him off the ball has done the most damage. Dumping him in the corner as SF and pairing him with a PG that does not pass the ball.

I should probably clarify at this point why I say non-impact player. There is far too much talent and ability in Tyreke for him to have as minor an impact on the game as he does. You can tell the big difference in the team when Cousins is on the floor and when he's not on the floor. That doesn't happen enough with Tyreke. There are situations where the coach has benched him for no good reason and he was flowing well, but there are also games where he plays 30 or so minutes and they're not all that memorable. As always, the main culprit for this is how he fades without the ball in his hands and how inconsistent his defensive effort is. Cousins' defensive effort is an issue as well, but you still notice how different the team is without him. Tyreke not so much.

 

[kingsnation]

The organization's evaluation of guard talent and team build is outright terrible. The team has had a question mark at PG ever since Bibby left, and even then, Bibby was a scorer in an offense ran through Webber/Vlade/Miller.

Let's look at PGs drafted in 2009 and beyond that the Kings passed on.

Rubio
Holiday
Jennings
Lawson
Flynn
Knight
Walker
Lillard

Two or three of those are lesser players or even players compared to what we have running, but some of them are huge misfires that show a lack of understanding in how to build a modern team. If you throw in Free Agents or minor trades of PG in the meantime, you get guys like Jarret Jack, Andre Miller or a guy like Grievas Vasquez (that I liked at the time) who were traded for spare parts. Compare that to the shoot-first scorers the Kings went after like Jimmer and Brooks, you see how far behind the curve the Kings are when it comes to PG evaluation.

Though them forcing Tyreke into PG for years was evidence enough that they were just sort of out of their wits.

Also, at some point, you know, like when all these other players have shown more in the allotted time, it's not more anti-tyreke nonsense. It's the reality of the situation. I have nothing against Tyreke. I want him to develop a shot and off-the-ball game so he can become an all around player. I knew he was not a PG and I was right. The team needed a real PG and he was not it. The time the organization AND FANS wasted trying to push that nonsense has turned Tyreke into a non-impact player.

I'm curious as to how the fans "pushing" Tyreke as a point guard has contributed in turning him into a "non-impact player?"

Do fans have that much power these days? Also, I'm curious to what you mean by "time" in your final sentence. IMO, the only time this franchise actually pushed Reke as a PG was during his ROY. Other than that year - this franchise has been more mismanaged than ever and have in turn mismanaged Reke and his role. Reke's been played at the 1, 2, 3 and 4 at times. Is he a 3? Is he a 2? Is he a PG? The Kings and coaching staff have no idea. The problem also is magnified because that's not the only thing the coaching staff has no idea about.

I definitely agree with you though regarding the team's poor evaluation of PG talent.

 

[LWP777]

Thank god your not the GM!

That's not very nice baja! Thank God "you're" not entering any spelling bees anytime soon!

Back to the topic. We have a problem at PG. Rubio is a pure PG. Sure, he has some limitations as far as his scoring but he looked great this year until the injury bug got the better of him. I agree with the previous poster who made some great points about Evans. He doesn't do anything to help his team win. He's not a leader. Great kid, but doesn't have that winning drive that will make him a difference maker. Rubio does to some degree. Evans is not a player to build around. He's a complimentary piece.

I'm disappointed in you that you don't see that baja.

 

[kingsnation]

That's not very nice baja! Thank God "you're" not entering any spelling bees anytime soon!

Back to the topic. We have a problem at PG. Rubio is a pure PG. Sure, he has some limitations as far as his scoring but he looked great this year until the injury bug got the better of him. I agree with the previous poster who made some great points about Evans. He doesn't do anything to help his team win. He's not a leader. Great kid, but doesn't have that winning drive that will make him a difference maker. Rubio does to some degree. Evans is not a player to build around. He's a complimentary piece.

I'm disappointed in you that you don't see that baja.

You say that so assuredly. Obviously evidenced by Minnesota's success. Please explain "some degree."