Tyreke Evans not likely to recieve extension

[Kingster]

As mentioned I don't want to take away from Tyreke's ability to run the floor and score in transition. You likened him to a mini-Lebron in transition and I don't disagree with that assessment.
The problem I have is focusing the offense on being a running team because of his ability in this area. The reason I have a problem with that is due strictly to playoff basketball. Having success in the regular season means nothing if you are not setting yourself up to succeed in the post season.

And here is the issue which really dominates my thought process. What percentage of LeBron's points came in transition against the Celtics in that fantastic 7 game series we just had?
I don't know the answer, but I'd guess maybe 15%, perhaps 20% as a high number just eye-balling the game. (If that is a stat which is tracked on a site somewhere, I'd love to get the true percentage.)

So if LeBron is considered the best in the league in being unstoppable in transition, and he just finished a grueling 7 game series where less than 25% of his points came in transition, why would you dedicate your offense to a scheme which isn't going to really work in the later portions of the play-offs?

The transition game can be an important piece to the puzzle, but if you're making it your primary piece you're never going to be good enough to win an NBA chamionship because it's just too easy for the opposing coach to take that away in a 7 game series.

Don't you find it odd that you're talking about an NBA championship when the Kings just finished 5th from the bottom? The Kings are light years away from an NBA championship. There are years that would have to occur before they ever got there. Along the way there would be numerous roster changes. And there are things they must learn along the way, like how to run a set up offense in crunch time and how to defend a pick and roll and all kinds of fun stuff. But they've got to start where they are - 5th from the bottom. And that doesn't mean bashing your head into the wall repeatedly with a set up offense at this embryonic stage of development. That means doing what you can do to win now so that the players, coaches and fans will give a damn. That means starting with what you do best - a running game - while at the same time bit by bit improving on the stuff you don't do very well. Yes, eventually the Kings are going to need to become outstanding at the set up offense, but it's totally unrealistic to have the baby start out running the marathon when the baby can barely walk.

PS I did find a silver lining last year: the Kings actually started running fast breaks pretty well. This was in part due to IT at the point, and I also think in part due to the coaching of Smart. And as an aside, the slow walk-up offense went away; very nice. Considering they were gawdawful in the previous few years running the break, I find that tidbit encouraging. At least it has been demonstrated that they can improve in one aspect of their game. So if they can improve in that one aspect maybe we can have hope that the same can occur in other aspects.

 

[mac]

Don't you find it odd that you're talking about an NBA championship when the Kings just finished 5th from the bottom? The Kings are light years away from an NBA championship. There are years that would have to occur before they ever got there. Along the way there would be numerous roster changes. And there are things they must learn along the way, like how to run a set up offense in crunch time and how to defend a pick and roll and all kinds of fun stuff. But they've got to start where they are - 5th from the bottom. And that doesn't mean bashing your head into the wall repeatedly with a set up offense at this embryonic stage of development. That means doing what you can do to win now so that the players, coaches and fans will give a damn. That means starting with what you do best - a running game - while at the same time bit by bit improving on the stuff you don't do very well. Yes, eventually the Kings are going to need to become outstanding at the set up offense, but it's totally unrealistic to have the baby start out running the marathon when the baby can barely walk.

I disagree. You are right in saying that if the goal is to run a marathon one should start by first walking. But that's exactly what Uncia is advocating. We should be trying to slowly implement a system that wins championships. And maybe at the start we don't execute it so well (i.e. walking instead of running), but the point is we're working on it and building towards a point where everything runs smoothly. In contrast, just telling the team to run and hoist up shots is like swimming instead of running or walking - it's going a completely different path. Both ways will allow you to move a distance (winning some games), but you're wasting time practising how to swim when your aim is to run.

I am in no way advocating any pre-Smart offense that just involved isolation after isolation plays. But how bout getting some off the ball movement, getting guys to set better screens, cross screens, staggered screens, pick and rolls etc. I don't know about you, but as a fan if I saw some systematic effort to get the team playing in a style that wins basketball games, developing a 1-2 tandem with Cuz and Evans I'd be pleased.

Put it this way - what you're pulling for is to do what we can do best at that point in time right? How's that worked for us so far? Evans' rookie year he was our best offense, and now we are reaping the results of not teaching him to run a proper offense and just telling him to go score. How has our winning% changed in 3-4 years? How can you possibly say that we're helping the team for the future and playing to our strengths when the number of games we've won says otherwise? So it's like, we're not preparing for championship basketball, nor are we winning games NOW ("so that the players, coaches and fans will give a damn"), so what the hell are we doing? I'll tell you what we're doing, we're playing pretty fast-paced basketball. Oooo woww our players run so fast and get out in transition so much. Wowww Isaiah Thomas is the next coming of Magic Johnson with all his passes in the open court. W-L record? Fail.

 

[Kingster]

I disagree. You are right in saying that if the goal is to run a marathon one should start by first walking. But that's exactly what Uncia is advocating. We should be trying to slowly implement a system that wins championships. And maybe at the start we don't execute it so well (i.e. walking instead of running), but the point is we're working on it and building towards a point where everything runs smoothly. In contrast, just telling the team to run and hoist up shots is like swimming instead of running or walking - it's going a completely different path. Both ways will allow you to move a distance (winning some games), but you're wasting time practising how to swim when your aim is to run.

I am in no way advocating any pre-Smart offense that just involved isolation after isolation plays. But how bout getting some off the ball movement, getting guys to set better screens, cross screens, staggered screens, pick and rolls etc. I don't know about you, but as a fan if I saw some systematic effort to get the team playing in a style that wins basketball games, developing a 1-2 tandem with Cuz and Evans I'd be pleased.

Put it this way - what you're pulling for is to do what we can do best at that point in time right? How's that worked for us so far? Evans' rookie year he was our best offense, and now we are reaping the results of not teaching him to run a proper offense and just telling him to go score. How has our winning% changed in 3-4 years? How can you possibly say that we're helping the team for the future and playing to our strengths when the number of games we've won says otherwise? So it's like, we're not preparing for championship basketball, nor are we winning games NOW ("so that the players, coaches and fans will give a damn"), so what the hell are we doing? I'll tell you what we're doing, we're playing pretty fast-paced basketball. Oooo woww our players run so fast and get out in transition so much. Wowww Isaiah Thomas is the next coming of Magic Johnson with all his passes in the open court. W-L record? Fail.

Doesn't it go without saying that we should slowly implement a system that wins championships? Do you think anybody disagrees with that? Do you think Smart disagrees with that? Also, do you really think Smart says, "Guys, go jack up shots, the more the better; just F the plays we have; and F the set up offense. Run and jack up shots." Do you really think he's giving them those words of wisdom? Personally, I think that is off the deap end stuff. Simplistic. Unrealistic. A caricature. An attempt at ridicule, not an attempt at understanding.

Your argument that building off our improved running game, the strongest point of our team, is not the right way to go because we lost last year, is illogical. It assumes that there is only one reason for failure - that because Smart emphasized running, the Kings lost. It also assumes that by improving the Kings running game, they will not be able to improve their set up offense. All or nothing thinking. It also views history through a straw - looking only at the short tenure of Smart, not at the failure that preceeded Smart or the slow down styles of play and the lineups that preceeded Smart.

 

[Bricklayer]

Never heard of Petrie working with a player.

That would be a great sign if true. Given that Petrie would be the guy trading him, I don't see how Petrie working with Reke and Petrie trading Reke in the same offseason compute. Be nice to put that particular possibility to bed and get back to concentrating on building around Reke and Cousins .

 

[Spike]

Doesn't it go without saying that we should slowly implement a system that wins championships? Do you think anybody disagrees with that? Do you think Smart disagrees with that? Also, do you really think Smart says, "Guys, go jack up shots, the more the better; just F the plays we have; and F the set up offense. Run and jack up shots." Do you really think he's giving them those words of wisdom? Personally, I think that is off the deap end stuff. Simplistic. Unrealistic. A caricature. An attempt at ridicule, not an attempt at understanding.

Your argument that building off our improved running game, the strongest point of our team, is not the right way to go because we lost last year, is illogical. It assumes that there is only one reason for failure - that because Smart emphasized running, the Kings lost. It also assumes that by improving the Kings running game, they will not be able to improve their set up offense. All or nothing thinking. It also views history through a straw - looking only at the short tenure of Smart, not at the failure that preceeded Smart or the slow down styles of play and the lineups that preceeded Smart.

How about the slow paced lineup implemented in Smart's early tenure that actually won games? I know they didn't score many points, but it was suited around everyone's strength. Shame that people prefer points.

 

[mac]

Doesn't it go without saying that we should slowly implement a system that wins championships? Do you think anybody disagrees with that? Do you think Smart disagrees with that? Also, do you really think Smart says, "Guys, go jack up shots, the more the better; just F the plays we have; and F the set up offense. Run and jack up shots." Do you really think he's giving them those words of wisdom? Personally, I think that is off the deap end stuff. Simplistic. Unrealistic. A caricature. An attempt at ridicule, not an attempt at understanding.

Your argument that building off our improved running game, the strongest point of our team, is not the right way to go because we lost last year, is illogical. It assumes that there is only one reason for failure - that because Smart emphasized running, the Kings lost. It also assumes that by improving the Kings running game, they will not be able to improve their set up offense. All or nothing thinking. It also views history through a straw - looking only at the short tenure of Smart, not at the failure that preceeded Smart or the slow down styles of play and the lineups that preceeded Smart.

Sigh. You just don't get it. If we are building off our STRONGEST point, which is apparently running according to you, then how the balls is it possible that a team with a soon to be all star, a former ROY and Isaiah dazzling Thomas wins you just as many games as having Tyreke Evans and DMC go 1 on 1 every possession?

There were ZERO steps towards building a half court offense. We did not even make an effort to run well designed plays in the halfcourt. Which in other words is saying that we don't care about halfcourt offense, we are just going to run. Fine, run, if it helps us get wins (like you said). Then where are these magical wins hiding?!!

You are the illogical one if you expect us to somehow implement or progress to a proven playoff basketball offense while at the same time see the entire team not run anything remotely close. All the while not even improving from previous years.

 

[Section 101]

Sigh. You just don't get it. If we are building off our STRONGEST point, which is apparently running according to you, then how the balls is it possible that a team with a soon to be all star, a former ROY and Isaiah dazzling Thomas wins you just as many games as having Tyreke Evans and DMC go 1 on 1 every possession?

There were ZERO steps towards building a half court offense. We did not even make an effort to run well designed plays in the halfcourt. Which in other words is saying that we don't care about halfcourt offense, we are just going to run. Fine, run, if it helps us get wins (like you said). Then where are these magical wins hiding?!!

You are the illogical one if you expect us to somehow implement or progress to a proven playoff basketball offense while at the same time see the entire team not run anything remotely close. All the while not even improving from previous years.

Really? No half court offense? None at all?

 

[mac]

Really? No half court offense? None at all?

Not unless you call throwing it to Cuz to go 1 on 1 a designed play.

I've yet to get an answer as to why we would play a certain style for a season if we didn't intend to do the same for the next few years. For example, you wouldn't make Tyreke Evans keep shooting in game spot up corner 3s if you didn't intend to use him as a spot up 3 point shooter. Or maybe you'd do it to win games now, which again didn't happen.

Now if you feel that our style of play can win in the playoffs its a different matter altogether.

It's really closer to an all or nothing than you'd expect. Practice time is limited. This is the real world, you can't have your guys playing a certain way for half a season and think that they're getting better at other things at the same time. Another example: your goal is to have your soccer team eventually win basketball games by improving their basketball skills. Instead of having them play basketball, as bad as it may be, you choose to keep telling them to play soccer, and then you delight in the fact that they are honing their coordination skills, or reaction times etc. But why not just play basketball from the very beginning? Isn't that the most efficient way to do things?

If we had actually improved in our W-L record then I'd accept the argument that Smart just wanted to give the team some satisfaction with the season and the number of games they won.

 

[Sac.1989]

That would be a great sign if true. Given that Petrie would be the guy trading him, I don't see how Petrie working with Reke and Petrie trading Reke in the same offseason compute. Be nice to put that particular possibility to bed and get back to concentrating on building around Reke and Cousins .

it would be a final step towards figuring tyreke out if he is thinking about trading him - seeing what skills he has for yourself and seeing where theres potential/scope for improvement by getting involved yourself.

 

[Bricklayer]

it would be a final step towards figuring tyreke out if he is thinking about trading him - seeing what skills he has for yourself and seeing where theres potential/scope for improvement by getting involved yourself.

No way. If Petrie is working with him its as an attempt to save the relationship. Its also a fairly direct rebuke of the coaches really. As far as I know he has never before felt compelled to do this. And you wouldn't come down and take such an unprecedented step, to get personal with a player, then dump him same offseason. Now could it form the basis for a trade sometime in the future? Sure. But if Petrie is truly doing this its not because he comes down and works out all his players just before he trades them.

 

[Section 101]

If we had actually improved in our W-L record then I'd accept the argument that Smart just wanted to give the team some satisfaction with the season and the number of games they won.

They did improve their W-L record.

I think people need to remember this was also Smart's first year as a Kings coach. It's not like he has been around the team a few years and knew the personnel real well.

Smart said they were running for a few reasons one was pace the other main one was to get the players into better shape. I don't think the second one should be taken lightly.

 

[Tetsujin]

They did improve their W-L record.

I think people need to remember this was also Smart's first year as a Kings coach. It's not like he has been around the team a few years and knew the personnel real well.

Smart said they were running for a few reasons one was pace the other main one was to get the players into better shape. I don't think the second one should be taken lightly.

Getting the players into better shape for what exactly? By the time they were "in shape" the season was already over.

 

[Section 101]

Getting the players into better shape for what exactly? By the time they were "in shape" the season was already over.

To know where they need to be in the future. They can't come into camp the same way.

 

[Uncia03]

Smart said they were running for a few reasons one was pace the other main one was to get the players into better shape. I don't think the second one should be taken lightly.

The main reason they were running is because Smart said that the team wasn't good in the half-court.
And so if the team isn't good in the half-court you have 2 options:

1.) Work with the kids to get better in the half-court
2.) Go with a different style of offense (Usually a running style which adds more pace and therefore more opportunities to score and more opportunities to score before the defense gets set)

Smart went with option 2.

Now I understand that there was no training camp and limited practice time (especially early in the season with all the road games), but going with the running style did absolutely nothing to set up the team for future success.

The announcers had a quote from Scott Brooks during game 1 of the finals. When referencing that terrible year of Durant/Westbrook where they only won 20-odd games Scott Brooks said, "They weren't losing all those games, they were learning how to win."

The running style in conjunction with going small did nothing to prepare this team to learn how to win games. It basically amounted to too few wins and a wasted season with little to build upon.

 

[Glenn]

No way. If Petrie is working with him its as an attempt to save the relationship. Its also a fairly direct rebuke of the coaches really. As far as I know he has never before felt compelled to do this. And you wouldn't come down and take such an unprecedented step, to get personal with a player, then dump him same offseason. Now could it form the basis for a trade sometime in the future? Sure. But if Petrie is truly doing this its not because he comes down and works out all his players just before he trades them.

It is also a rebuke of the owners who extended Smart. I think more it is to salvage the Kings relationship with Tyreke. What Smart did with him was assinine and I doubt if Reke's agent, a darn powerful one, BTW, came to Sacramento for an idle chat. Perhaps even more acurately it was a plea to GP to right this floundering ship. Petrie drafted Reke, Petrie watched the last two years where nothing happened to improve Tyreke's game, and now has stuck his nose in to do the right thing. As Petrie was a darn fine SG with range and a former ROY himself, who better to repair what Smart and Westphal have failed to do?

How do you improve your game when you don't have a clue what your coach wants of you?

As an extension of what Brick was saying, I also might think this was a message to Smart that he has to listen to his GM more than the befuddled owners who don't seem to have basketball on their minds.

 

[Sac.1989]

No way. If Petrie is working with him its as an attempt to save the relationship. Its also a fairly direct rebuke of the coaches really. As far as I know he has never before felt compelled to do this. And you wouldn't come down and take such an unprecedented step, to get personal with a player, then dump him same offseason. Now could it form the basis for a trade sometime in the future? Sure. But if Petrie is truly doing this its not because he comes down and works out all his players just before he trades them.

of course he doesnt but tyreke is such a unique talent that you want to evaluate all points prior as much as possible prior to making any decision. I dont think were trying to trade him but its getting to the point where this season upcoming is make or break time for us in terms of really getting that upswing in terms of Ws and synergy on court. If you feel involving yourself in his development/getting a closer look firsthand enables you to better develop an action plan then so be it.

Ive been harping on for awhile about how theres a disconnect between smart, the owners and GP. If this is a push to get GPs blueprint back up then ill be glad. He should have steped in much earlier last season when the whole 3 guard lineup was rolling. It might have been strong handed but tyreke is so vital to us that i feel we really lost a good season playing that small ball rubbish when we could have been further building chemistry on court and really making a push for some more wins