I Are Torn! AKA The Beer thread

macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#1
#1
We are at an interesting spot this year. The team has gelled, finally playing more consistent and winning. Yet, we have no shot at the playoffs and every win gets us further away from the number one draft pick.

I really want the team to win, and was sitting on my couch drinking a lovely Lagunitas IPA yelling at the TV last night, when I realized, wins might not be so great.

What is better for this teams future; Wins to build confidence, or a top 5 pick vs. 7,8 or 9?

I JUST DON'T KNOW!

(Also, this site needs a super thread, so people like me stop making new threads every time they have a random thought. So, someone, get on that.)
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#2
#2
I learned my lesson on rooting for my team to lose in 2005 when the 49ers won the "Reggie Bush Bowl" against the Texans. I was so pissed... wanted Reggie so badly. We "settled" on Vernon Davis with the 6th pick... ended up working out great!

NBA draft is a lot different than the NFL but same principal applies.... there are no sure things. Root for your team to win and let the rest play itself out.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#3
#3
In years past I was a major woss advocate. Every time we linned I was very dissappointed. There was one lin in particular, against the Clippers, back about three years ago, with Theus at the helm, that so easily could've and and should've been a woss, and it ended up costing us Joakim freaking Noah. Not kidding. Got us Spencer Hawes vs. Joakim Noah.

That said, this is not the year to go for wosses. A star through the draft is not nearly as important as it has been in the past, simply because we have our 2/3 major pieces already. Of course somehow landing the number one would significantly help matters, but we're not near that position anyway. This year I'm not torn at all, I say just go for as many wins (and they are wins, not lins) this year as possible. Much more important to build team chemistry and confidence. All factors being at play, a major win streak helps us much more than a major losing streak.

In the back of their minds, I bet our players are even thinking "outside shot at the playoffs". Win the next 17 in a row and we're pretty much a shoo in.
 
jcwkings

jcwkings

All-Star
#4
#4
you try and win every game, we have our essential core, now it just about letting them grow and learnngi how to win, what good will it do to cousins, tyreke, isaiah, thornton to just tank the rest of the season, to maybe get a top 5 pick that isn't a gaurantee, that even if it is a good player, wont fully effect the game until a few seasons. I think our management firmly believes we should be in the playoff hunt next year, and it start by closing out this season well, it isn't going to be good for our young players mentally if we lose 15 of 20 games or whatever we have left on the schedule.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#5
#5
This team needs to taste winning ways now. We need to get Evans and Cousins on board with staying here as a desirable place to play. Winning does that (along with the new arena on the way). Do we need roster improvements? You bet. But we need to start winning and have an attitude change in the league about our team. We want people to want to come here again.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#6
#6
Warhawk said:
This team needs to taste winning ways now. We need to get Evans and Cousins on board with staying here as a desirable place to play. Winning does that (along with the new arena on the way). Do we need roster improvements? You bet. But we need to start winning and have an attitude change in the league about our team. We want people to want to come here again.
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The gist of all the preceding notes is great but this I like in particular. The bottom line is that we will never attract great FAs if it appears that we try to lose.
 
jcwkings

jcwkings

All-Star
#7
#7
a lottery pick isn't even the best option for this team, at this point it would be best to bring in a reliable vet(26-29 years old) that we know is effective in this league and knows how to win. bringing in another 19-22 year old that has to learn the game isn't exactly what we need, unless he is a very good fit. I even consider packaging some of our roleplayers and our draft pick, if it means we get the guy we need to put us over the top
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#9
#9
I have no such feelings. Win, win, win. Even the last week. I don't like the lottery. I hide my head when that's going on. And who knows whether you will be at five, eight, one or three. And when you are there, you have to wise and LUCKY to make a good dedision let alone the best decision. I guess I like basketball but I would rather gamble at Thunder Valley.

I'm sorry if some of you are suffering in that way now and for the rest of the season. And I'm not like baja, I don't know any players or where they might be, haven't seen any of them, won't look until after the season, I have enough to worry about with Cousins, Salmons, Fredette, Evans, Outlaw, Hayes, Thornton, Smart, Petrie, Bricklayer, Baja, etc etc etc.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#10
#10
i'm not torn in the least. i'm tired of seeing the kings in the lottery. SO tired of it. i'm tired of hoping that there's an answer waiting within the potential of another 20-year old player. as has been mentioned already in this thread (and by myself in several different threads), veteran talent is infinitely more useful to this kings team than another draft pick, no matter how much potential such a player might have...

if the kings finish this season anywhere between .400 and .500, i will be ecstatic. that would constitute a MAJOR improvement on the last several seasons' win percentage, and it would signal the possibility of the playoffs in '12-'13. ending the season significantly below .400 would hurt the team's morale, especially as they begin to find a chemistry together. tyreke and demarcus connected on a few different plays last night, and that was the most encouraging thing of all, in my opinion. you want those two guys to believe they can play together, and that they're future is with the sacramento kings...
 
xrzn

xrzn

Starter
#11
#11
We should look to improve before we can consider jumping into the playoff contention. We cant root for lins every year. If we improve from last season drastically, we can then look forward to maybe contending for a playoff spot next season or maybe even better. I'm pretty sure this is the logically step. It can't be common for one of the worst teams the previous season to be in playoff contention the following season.

We cant root for lins this season, end this season with one of the worst records, then hope to be in relevant next season so soon. We need a period in between where we improve to build some confidence in the players so they can look to making a splash in the playoffs next season.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#12
#12
xrzn said:
You need to improve before you can jump into the playoff contention. We cant root for lins every year. If we improve from last season drastically, we can then look forward to maybe contending for a playoff spot next season or maybe even better.

We cant root for lins this season, end this season with one of the worst records, then hope to be in relevant next season so soon. We need a period in between where we improve to build some confidence in the players so they can look to making a splash in the playoffs next season.
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Portland rooted for wins when they were up and coming and it netted them the number one pick. (Okay, so that's obviously outside the norm but still)
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
#14
Winning is more imprtant at this point..but only if we win a LOT. This wasn't true two years ago. I have said, and will continue to say, anybody who wanted us to "win" two years ago was actualy rooting against the Sacramento Kings winning anything. You need to lose to win long term in this league. But those days are largely past. The talent is here peeps. Cousins is here. Reke is here. Thornton is here. And so we have shifted to another phase where it becomes important that we start winning so that that talent buys in, gains momentum, and wants to stay here on an up and coming team. Just another step in the life cycle. But that's where I say it only makes sense if we win a LOT. It has to be game/culture changing. If so, you embrace it. The problem will come if we win to the tune of 7-13 down the stretch rather than 5-15 and it costs us 4 draft spots or some such. That's never smart -- that level of winning does nothing for you, but dropping those spots could cost you hundreds of wins in the future.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#16
#16
Tetsujin said:
Portland rooted for wins when they were up and coming and it netted them the number one pick. (Okay, so that's obviously outside the norm but still)
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more important is to look at their overall trajectory. a few seasons back, portland was one of the most exciting upstarts in the league. one career-ending injury to brandon roy, several near-career-ending injuries to greg oden, and one nate mcmillan firing later, and they're rebuilding once again. its certainly just bad luck that things panned out the way they did for portland, but winning the lottery is truly the lowest kind of victory. cleveland won the lottery and it netted them several great years with lebron james. but they never achieved the ultimate victory, and lebron bolted for greener pastures...

when you draft the kind of potential that can take you to the top (cousins, evans), you have to start winning, and fast. you can't wait around for fate to take a hand. if you do, chris webber's knee will blow out. or brandon roy's knee. or greg oden's knee. or lebron james will leave town. or tyreke evans and demarcus cousins will do the same. in the nba, your luck can change in a hurry. inside of a few seasons, the trailblazers went from being a future playoff contender to a returning lottery attender. inside of a few seasons, the thunder went from being a losing team in seattle with a young star to a playoff team in oklahoma city with several young stars. you need to be proactive, and you need a little bit of good luck...

as for the kings, they're starting to show signs of life. they're starting to flash the team wide potential that comes from talented young players seeing enough court time together. they're starting to win. they have a winning record at home. that success can spill over to the road, but not with more losing. not with more blows to a young team's confidence. you have to recognize a moment of actualization when it arrives, and you have to take advantage of such a window when it presents itself. strike while the iron's hot, and all of that ****. the owners have to shell out the money. the front office has to fill in the gaps. the coaching staff has to teach, prepare, and grow a talented young team. and a talented young team has to buy into the entire vision. its no easy task, especially for an organization in as much disarray as the kings have been the last several years. but its what's in front of the kings and their fans. i just hope they get it right, because, with a few tweaks and some elbow grease, this team can be a winner...
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
#17
macadocious said:
We are at an interesting spot this year. The team has gelled, finally playing more consistent and winning. Yet, we have no shot at the playoffs and every win gets us further away from the number one draft pick.

I really want the team to win, and was sitting on my couch drinking a lovely Lagunitas IPA yelling at the TV last night, when I realized, wins might not be so great.

What is better for this teams future; Wins to build confidence, or a top 5 pick vs. 7,8 or 9?

I JUST DON'T KNOW!

(Also, this site needs a super thread, so people like me stop making new threads every time they have a random thought. So, someone, get on that.)
Click to expand...
I think it is the job of fans to root for their team, regardless of what the standings may be. I think it's the job of the front office to do the strategizing about the draft. For the ultimate case of "be careful what you wish for" look at Portland. They got the first pick in the draft. They drafted the stud of the year. And what did it get them? Heartbreak.

This team needs to come together as a team, to learn what it feels like to win and to gain experience from winning and losing. That's a lot more important in the long run than drafting a couple of slots earlier in what looks to be like a deep draft.

Winning encourages the fans, it encourages the youth and it feels good. I strongly suggest that we forever forget about LINS and just enjoy how good it feels to see our Kings play with enthusiasm and commitment. It's been a long time.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#18
#18
macadocious said:
We are at an interesting spot this year. The team has gelled, finally playing more consistent and winning. Yet, we have no shot at the playoffs and every win gets us further away from the number one draft pick.

I really want the team to win, and was sitting on my couch drinking a lovely Lagunitas IPA yelling at the TV last night, when I realized, wins might not be so great.

What is better for this teams future; Wins to build confidence, or a top 5 pick vs. 7,8 or 9?

I JUST DON'T KNOW!

(Also, this site needs a super thread, so people like me stop making new threads every time they have a random thought. So, someone, get on that.)
Click to expand...
Ahh, my man!!! Prolly one of the BEST IPA's available on the market. Top 5 in my book. You have style bro!
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
#19
The Hammer said:
In years past I was a major woss advocate. Every time we linned I was very dissappointed.
Click to expand...
Clarification:

A woss was a win that was actually a loss because it put us lower in the draft process.

A lin was a loss that was actually a win because it gave us more ping pong balls in the draft lottery.
 
D13

D13

Bench
#21
#21
I'm mixed on this as well... Being a short season and near over. As long as we stay in the top 8 draft picks, and have some kind of odds for top 3, I'm good winning.. but no guarantees as other teams are already tanking. Accumulating another high draft pick is still a good asset for the future. So if we stay competitive, get some wins and finish the year out on a good note IMO its better to not get too many wins... somewhere in the middle please?
 
P

pdizo916

Bench
#22
#22
roasthawg said:
I learned my lesson on rooting for my team to lose in 2005 when the 49ers won the "Reggie Bush Bowl" against the Texans. I was so pissed... wanted Reggie so badly. We "settled" on Vernon Davis with the 6th pick... ended up working out great!

NBA draft is a lot different than the NFL but same principal applies.... there are no sure things. Root for your team to win and let the rest play itself out.
Click to expand...
THIS!! And also, we could end up with the worst record and still be royally screwed in the lottery. I think that has happened before and we ended up with Tyreke.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#24
#24
You win. But you hope it's with a style which can win down the road and in the playoffs. That, I'm not certain about, but we are somewhat stuck with our roster. But still, in high school would you develop study habits which wouldn't help in college or grad school? Maybe, if it gets you an A, but it will come back and bite you later.

Our guys still need to learn to win, get the fanbase behind them(11K was incredibly disappointing last night), and make a connection with the city. I'd love Davis, but one team is getting him and the chances aren't that great. Rumors are some other top picks might return to school. So win, build chemistry, get the guys believing, and if we don't get a great pick then consider packaging it for a vet. With guys stepping up and looking better, we have more attractive pieces which can be packaged with a player or two for something which would really help us. I'm not a proponent for getting younger anyway. We need a vet who can step in and start for us.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#25
#25
macadocious said:
I have been drinking a lot of Racer 5, Arrogant Bastard Ale and Double Arrogant Bastard Ale when I can find it. 7%, 7.2% and 9.2% respectively.
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Very familiar with those, yessir! Racer is bomb. AB will have you on one if you aren't careful Bear Republic, Stone Brewing, Lagunitas Brewing are all top notch. We got it good in Sac, if you have taste of course. We need a beer thread up in here!!! A 'What are you drinking' thread.

And as far as the OP (kinda got to contribute I guess), I want to see the team competitive and pull out some close games against good teams, and blow out the lower echelon teams. So I guess I'm rooting for wins, insofar as confidence building.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#26
#26
pdxKingsFan said:
Tanking hasn't worked for us, hopefully we bounce up instead of down wherever we land this year.
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People say that, but it really has in a huge way. Yeah, we did not get #1, but because our record was so bad even though somebody else got #1, #2 and #3, we didn't slip far and were still thee at #4 and #5 to pcik up our future cornerstones. If we had gone off and won 5 more games each year you're looking at a team that might ahve ended up with Johnny Flynn and Cole Aldrich instead, and then our future really would have been grim.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#27
#27
Warhawk said:
This team needs to taste winning ways now. We need to get Evans and Cousins on board with staying here as a desirable place to play. Winning does that (along with the new arena on the way). Do we need roster improvements? You bet. But we need to start winning and have an attitude change in the league about our team. We want people to want to come here again.
Click to expand...
Bingo! :)
 
Mass

Mass

Starter
#28
#28
I want the Kings to win right now. This year I don't care about ping pong balls and stuff like that. It's much more important to build confidence in these guys. They have to start believing that they can be a winning team. This is much more important than anything else. Then, I believe in a thing called karma (David Karma Stern...). Let's play the game the way it should be, let's play to win. I'm sure we will get a better pick in the next lottery. Every time we tanked we've always been unlucky. Let's try the other way.

At the end of the day, if we end up in the 9-11 range, we can always trade our pick for a legit and established player, something like what Indiana did in the last draft. They got George Hill for their pick, we could be able to find the SF we want (Batum?).
 
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