What the hell happend to this team?

[mac]

It only causes bad blood if folks are uptight...which means it causes lots of bad blood here. Personally, I don't mind dishing out a little crow or eating a little crow when appropriate. If it's not being done in a mean spirited way, i don't see the problem. It can also be kind of interesting to see how things have changed in six months, how opinions have evolved, etc.

You know, if you've been around long enough you would know that a lot of the regular posters do admit when they are wrong. If Tyreke doesn't improve after 2+ seasons playing with DMC and Thornton do you really think anyone will still be saying that we can count on him to run our offense?

What doesn't help is this attitude that you guys are the only smart ****s around, and everyone else is wrong. It's funny how when a poster's opinion/argument is attacked by so many people he can be thick skinned enough to say that it's because KingsFans is some awful place that's just full of blind homers. Well, no one is keeping you or anyone else here, so if you don't like the culture find another community.

I can think of two posters who blatantly dislike Tyreke (over say Rubio or some other guys), have made their opinion clear, and yet are still widely accepted here for their opinions and contributions - Section101 and Gary. It's fine to criticize a player, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What builds up bad blood is when people start to develop the whole me against the world thing. Disagreements are part and parcel of any forum, and I think the back-and-forth arguments between posters contribute largely to making this place interesting.

Kingsfans is a community for fans around the world to SHARE, share in joy when the team plays well, share in disappointment and frustration when they play like they've been playing. It's a place for fans to express their thoughts about the team, and no one can predict the future. When someone makes a thread or a post, they should be prepared to receive responses with an open mind. If you're not going to listen and consider others' stands, what's the point in expressing yours, since others will do the same? If you want a place to show off and prove to the world that you're always right, if you're always looking for a bone to pick and always holding a ME VS REST OF FORUM attitude, kingsfans is simply not for you.

It's funny how these posters that I'm referring to seem to think they have some sort of entitlement here. Yet, none of these guys are contributors to keep the community running. The least one could do is to be more appreciative of the people who allow us to have this place to go to every day to talk about the team we love and support. These people don't give a **** about anything other than proving that they are always right.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

You know, if you've been around long enough you would know that a lot of the regular posters do admit when they are wrong. If Tyreke doesn't improve after 2+ seasons playing with DMC and Thornton do you really think anyone will still be saying that we can count on him to run our offense?

What doesn't help is this attitude that you guys are the only smart ****s around, and everyone else is wrong. It's funny how when a poster's opinion/argument is attacked by so many people he can be thick skinned enough to say that it's because KingsFans is some awful place that's just full of blind homers. Well, no one is keeping you or anyone else here, so if you don't like the culture find another community.

I can think of two posters who blatantly dislike Tyreke (over say Rubio or some other guys), have made their opinion clear, and yet are still widely accepted here for their opinions and contributions - Section101 and Gary. It's fine to criticize a player, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What builds up bad blood is when people start to develop the whole me against the world thing. Disagreements are part and parcel of any forum, and I think the back-and-forth arguments between posters contribute largely to making this place interesting.

Kingsfans is a community for fans around the world to SHARE, share in joy when the team plays well, share in disappointment and frustration when they play like they've been playing. It's a place for fans to express their thoughts about the team, and no one can predict the future. When someone makes a thread or a post, they should be prepared to receive responses with an open mind. If you're not going to listen and consider others' stands, what's the point in expressing yours, since others will do the same? If you want a place to show off and prove to the world that you're always right, if you're always looking for a bone to pick and always holding a ME VS REST OF FORUM attitude, kingsfans is simply not for you.

It's funny how these posters that I'm referring to seem to think they have some sort of entitlement here. Yet, none of these guys are contributors to keep the community running. The least one could do is to be more appreciative of the people who allow us to have this place to go to every day to talk about the team we love and support. These people don't give a **** about anything other than proving that they are always right.

You're preaching to the choir there, man. I'm not some arrogant know-it-all fan who thinks he's never wrong, far from it. I gladly listen to what others have to say. I pretty much treat people as I feel they're treating me. If I feel I'm being condescend to for my opinions, which happens fairly frequently here, then I'm not going to be very nice. When people are respectful to me though, I give it right back. Not sure why you felt compelled to direct that rant at me because it's way off base.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You're preaching to the choir there, man. I'm not some arrogant know-it-all fan who thinks he's never wrong, far from it. I gladly listen to what others have to say. I pretty much treat people as I feel they're treating me. If I feel I'm being condescend to for my opinions, which happens fairly frequently here, then I'm not going to be very nice. When people are respectful to me though, I give it right back. Not sure why you felt compelled to direct that rant at me because it's way off base.

I would say posting a video that implies you have to be a homer to think Tyreke is elite at getting to the rim is pretty inflammatory, especially in the face of crippling evidence to the contrary. This is by far the best Kings forum there is, and opposing views are generally accepted and engaged with fairly. It is when nonsense is repeated that things get heated. People have all sorts of agendas here, which is bizarre. Clearly people are disillusioned with the way the team is playing and rightly so, but the finger is being consistently pointed in the wrong direction, and it gets very tiring.

EDIT: The above is not directed solely at you Rookie, lest I offend you unintentionally. It's a general post.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I would say posting a video that implies you have to be a homer to think Tyreke is elite at getting to the rim is pretty inflammatory, especially in the face of crippling evidence to the contrary. This is by far the best Kings forum there is, and opposing views are generally accepted and engaged with fairly. It is when nonsense is repeated that things get heated. People have all sorts of agendas here, which is bizarre. Clearly people are disillusioned with the way the team is playing and rightly so, but the finger is being consistently pointed in the wrong direction, and it gets very tiring.

EDIT: The above is not directed solely at you Rookie, lest I offend you unintentionally. It's a general post.

OK, man, I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but it seems like you didn’t even bother to read what I posted the video in response to.

It was the comments...

“I don't see Tyreke anywhere near the OP”

“I simply don't see this "Top 5" ability to drive”

“Until I see more out of him, I don't see him as a center piece of any NBA offensive scheme”

That the video was a response to.

 

[Dime Dropper]

OK, man, I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but it seems like you didn’t even bother to read what I posted the video in response to.

It was the comments...

“I don't see Tyreke anywhere near the OP”

“I simply don't see this "Top 5" ability to drive”

“Until I see more out of him, I don't see him as a center piece of any NBA offensive scheme”

That the video was a response to.

Ah, apologies then. There's so much Tyreke discussion going on that I got mixed up!

 

[pshn80]

Just read a few of these posts. Just wanted to confirm that I am a regular poster on some threads. You should know, too, that I am an expert. In my two years plus on here I have never been wrong (although I misspelled a few words). And you're right, if I was ever wrong I would admit it. All of us regulars are this way. Oh, also, I am a homer. Why else would I post only here. I agree about Tyreke and Salmons and Outlaw. I am thoroughly objective, involved and I believe all my fellow posters are too. We are always right unless we admit we are wrong. More later.

 

[rainmaker]

uh..... you're welcome...?

Yep! Sure did.
You know what? It's kinda fun seeing how wrong some of you "expert KF's" who make thousands of posts through the years and baffle all us more lurker-types who don't care to trawl 82games and make up statistical evidence to blind us to what we see on the court on a nightly basis.

Make up statistical evidence? Show me an example, please. I was in the group who hated getting Salmons and disagreed with our off season moves from the start, yet did not see any posters making up statistical evidence in an attempt to blind me.

You may think that many KF's being very wrong in regards to offseason moves is irrelevant - on the contrary, I feel it is important to remember. It suggests that their all-knowing beliefs about what the team should do to fix things aren't necessarily accurate, either.

Where did I say it was irrelevant? I did say I think there's a better way to go about it, as I explained previously, where you actually quote them and respond personally to them, so they know what the hell it is you took issue with.

You twist words frequently, don't you? Point out where I said people being wrong was irrelevant? Funny how you blame others for inaccuracy, while you twist words into quite inaccurate responses. And I didn't see you quoting the named posters and pointing out what you thought was inaccurate. I never said you shouldn't hold them accountable. I said you should personally respond to them so we know exactly what it is you're holding them accountable for.

And if I'm the only person that will spend his time to show who proved who did and didn't know this Kings team, than I'll gladly take that "childish" mantle.
I didn't toot my horn, there were lots of people who were clearer than me about the off-season moves (Showtime's post in particular NAILED it).

Do you seriously think you just proved that guys like Brick, Baja or Carolija don't know the team? I disagree with almost everyone from time to time, yet I don't become delusional enough, nor is it my objective, to think I somehow have proven to the forum they don't know the team. Because you disagree with someones opinion about the off season, you somehow think they don't know the team?

I'm on the same side of the fence as you in regards to my opinions on the off season, and no they weren't popular at the time, but in no way does that mean others I disagreed with all the sudden don't know the team as you are implying. Many of the people you called out have proven over the years they do know this team and sport extremely well, whether or not you or I agree with their stance on a particular off season.

So you go ahead and post your way, I'll post my way.
I coulda posted exactly what each person said that proved to be wrong, but then you'd have a problem with that, too.

You know what I'll have a problem with before it occurs? Quite an asinine assumption. Where have I ever criticized a poster for quoting another? I suggested you quote the people you disagree with, and your response is I'd have a problem if you did that, too? Quite odd logic you're using here.

 

[VF21]

What the hell happend to this thread?

Geez, people. We're here because we're Kings fans. Right now, with the team looking like a random bunch of guys who found a box of uniforms and decided to put them on, things are tough. Add in the seemingly unending drama about the arena, the revolving door coaching position and the Arco curse, and of course people are going to be tense.

One thing has always endured here at KF...we're KINGS FANS and we're here to talk about the team. Disagreements? Oh yeah! Personal attacks, diatribes and calling out other posters? Nope, not here. Other boards went that way, constantly preaching about us being too strict, and where are they now?

There's nothing wrong with good debate and solid arguments but there is no call for the chest-pounding, smug posturing some of you - especially some newer members - have decided will be your style.

If the Air Jordan fits, wear it. Please don't take offense where none was meant, but look upon this as a reminder about why we're here and leave it at that. There's a lot to talk about without every thread boiling down to the same old thing.

 

[Glenn]

What the hell happend to this thread?

Geez, people. We're here because we're Kings fans. Right now, with the team looking like a random bunch of guys who found a box of uniforms and decided to put them on, things are tough. Add in the seemingly unending drama about the arena, the revolving door coaching position and the Arco curse, and of course people are going to be tense.

One thing has always endured here at KF...we're KINGS FANS and we're here to talk about the team. Disagreements? Oh yeah! Personal attacks, diatribes and calling out other posters? Nope, not here. Other boards went that way, constantly preaching about us being too strict, and where are they now?

There's nothing wrong with good debate and solid arguments but there is no call for the chest-pounding, smug posturing some of you - especially some newer members - have decided will be your style.

If the Air Jordan fits, wear it. Please don't take offense where none was meant, but look upon this as a reminder about why we're here and leave it at that. There's a lot to talk about without every thread boiling down to the same old thing.

It has to do with frustration and testosterone.

As to the newbies, they want to change a successful forum and that won't happen. Might as well give up that idea. Adapting to the style of the forum doesn't mean you have to adapt your beliefs. This idea that there is a "group think" on this forum is true to the extent that we are fans of a team and not individual players. As to the idea that people have to adjust their thinking or be blasted by a select few, I happen to think the select few have great basketball minds and you might pay a little attention to what they have to say. You might learn something.

 

[IfAt1st]

I really wish there was a "KF's Site Forum" to properly address these issues - but since there is no official outlet for site issues, I'll assume I can reply since everyone else is putting in their 2 cents.

(Please let me know if I am not allowed to have an opinion about the way this board is run)

VF21 - the long-time KF's are the primary culprits of personal attacks.
rainmaker on this very page called me delusional, asinine, childish, inaccurate, and that I twist words.
Why don't you stop him from going personal?

A personal attack is when someone attacks the person, not the idea.
Me pointing out who's posts were proven wrong about this Kings roster is not a personal attack, and the only way it could be construed as such is if you have too much testosterone tying your opinion to your self-worth.

I have no problem accepting if and when my predictions were wrong - that's what's fun about predictions, it's guessing about the effect on this team, and seeing if you were right or wrong.
I thought that the more established posters would be big enough to admit when they were wrong about their opinions/predictions.
Apparently, accountability of previous posts is such a scary thing that now it's being warped into being a personal attack...?

I'll admit when I was wrong about this team - when Adelman was let go, I guaranteed my coworkers that Musselman would win at least as many games with that squad as Adelman. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

VF21 - the long-time KF's are the primary culprits of personal attacks.

Yep. That's the thing, many "in power" here don't practice what they preach. They often go around being snarky, condescending, etc. but then flip out when someone gives them a dose of their own medicine. This is a good forum but it can be very much like a high school clique at times. "Outsiders" generally aren't met with a very warm welcome.

 

[sidney]

 

[Glenn]

I really wish there was a "KF's Site Forum" to properly address these issues - but since there is no official outlet for site issues, I'll assume I can reply since everyone else is putting in their 2 cents.

(Please let me know if I am not allowed to have an opinion about the way this board is run)

VF21 - the long-time KF's are the primary culprits of personal attacks.
rainmaker on this very page called me delusional, asinine, childish, inaccurate, and that I twist words.
Why don't you stop him from going personal?

A personal attack is when someone attacks the person, not the idea.
Me pointing out who's posts were proven wrong about this Kings roster is not a personal attack, and the only way it could be construed as such is if you have too much testosterone tying your opinion to your self-worth.

I have no problem accepting if and when my predictions were wrong - that's what's fun about predictions, it's guessing about the effect on this team, and seeing if you were right or wrong.
I thought that the more established posters would be big enough to admit when they were wrong about their opinions/predictions.
Apparently, accountability of previous posts is such a scary thing that now it's being warped into being a personal attack...?

I'll admit when I was wrong about this team - when Adelman was let go, I guaranteed my coworkers that Musselman would win at least as many games with that squad as Adelman. Boy, was I wrong.

I KNOW some long time posters get away with personal attacks. I suppose it depends on what you expect to be done. I know that if I was a long time poster (oh, wait, when did I sign on?) I would say they have earned a pass or two by what they have offered. Most problems are solved by PMs and you have no idea when that is occurring.

It would be nice if life was black and white but it isn't.

I am sensitive to personal attacks and wish there were none. I don't know if I have attacked anyone personally and am on your list. I know I try not to do that.

To say that the long time KFs are the long time culprits of personal attacks is absurd. If you have opinions, write to the mods or complain about the note that bugged you. That idea was recently suggested by a mod. Don't blame the mods if you make no use of that forum function.

Certainly you have the right to have an opinion and that little bit of passive-aggressiveness you opened this note with is as nasty as a flat out attack. My opinion of course.

The place to complain of an abusive post is in the lower left of the post.

 

[kupman]

What the hell happend to this thread?

Losing often leads to locker room bickering. A few Kings wins will likely clean this right up.

 

[Posta Boy X]

Losing often leads to locker room bickering. A few Kings wins will likely clean this right up.

Not likely.

This team can win 5 straight games yet they will still suck and discussion will continue.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Not likely.

This team can win 5 straight games yet they will still suck and discussion will continue.

Sadly that could be true. I remember they had a 4 game win streak in 2009/2010 and another one on 2010/2011. That's too small a sample size to really prove anything. This team needs to play near .500 ball for a prolonged stretch before we can even think about saying they no longer suck.

 

[IfAt1st]

Most problems are solved by PMs and you have no idea when that is occurring.

If you have opinions, write to the mods or complain about the note that bugged you. That idea was recently suggested by a mod. Don't blame the mods if you make no use of that forum function.

I HAVE PM'd the mods.

I have been threatened by the mods when I quoted the forum rules and asked them to stop their behavior (I am not naming names, because I've been threatened with a ban if I do).
I have been denied ANY discussion or even explanation as to what forum rules I have violated.

BTW, I don't think you habitually attack and misrepresent people.

There is no site forum or suggestions forum or complaints forum to have a discussion about these aspects of forum moderation.
When the mods and longtime members of KF's are the problem, they have not allowed me to discuss these issues, even when they are violating their own posted rules.
You say I should use the report a post feature, but that would just be bothering the mods more and I would rather not bother them as they've made their stance pretty clear to me.

I'm frankly shocked that a longtime KF such as yourself is not aware of this entrenched situation.
Not everyone here is allowed to have an opinion.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I HAVE PM'd the mods.

I have been threatened by the mods when I quoted the forum rules and asked them to stop their behavior (I am not naming names, because I've been threatened with a ban if I do).
I have been denied ANY discussion or even explanation as to what forum rules I have violated.

BTW, I don't think you habitually attack and misrepresent people.

There is no site forum or suggestions forum or complaints forum to have a discussion about these aspects of forum moderation.
When the mods and longtime members of KF's are the problem, they have not allowed me to discuss these issues, even when they are violating their own posted rules.
You say I should use the report a post feature, but that would just be bothering the mods more and I would rather not bother them as they've made their stance pretty clear to me.

I'm frankly shocked that a longtime KF such as yourself is not aware of this entrenched situation.
Not everyone here is allowed to have an opinion.

You're allowed to have opinions, just not dissenting ones. Metallica said it best. "You can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say."

 

[Dime Dropper]

"Dissenting" opinions are welcome as long as they're not nonsensical. If someone wants to post rubbish, they can expect their opinion to be ridiculed (not to be confused with personal attacks). The problem is that people think they can s**t all over certain players with ridiculous comments and not have people call them out on it. Hiding behind the "subjectivity" of an opinion does not mean it deserves respect or is valid. I could argue that Jimmer is going to be better than Jordan. It's all about opinions, right? Well, if you want to be philosophical then theoretically there's nothing wrong with what I'm saying. In reality, I'd be an idiot to think so and would be deservedly shot down for it.

Last night is a perfect example of the insanity that was the argument of Tyreke not being an elite penetrator. And people actually believed the junk they were posting. Newer members have ALWAYS been met with a warm welcome here, but Jimmer has unfortunately brought with some strange fans. Some who appear to not even follow basketball.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

"Dissenting" opinions are welcome as long as they're not nonsensical. If someone wants to post rubbish, they can expect their opinion to be ridiculed (not to be confused with personal attacks). The problem is that people think they can s**t all over certain players with ridiculous comments and not have people call them out on it. Hiding behind the "subjectivity" of an opinion does not mean it deserves respect or is valid. I could argue that Jimmer is going to be better than Jordan. It's all about opinions, right? Well, if you want to be philosophical then theoretically there's nothing wrong with what I'm saying. In reality, I'd be an idiot to think so and would be deservedly shot down for it.

Last night is a perfect example of the insanity that was the argument of Tyreke not being an elite penetrator. And people actually believed the junk they were posting. Newer members have ALWAYS been met with a warm welcome here, but Jimmer has unfortunately brought with some strange fans. Some who appear to not even follow basketball.

I could argue that Jimmer is going to be better than Jordan. It's all about opinions, right?

Yeah. Did you think I’d change my position? I’ll honestly entertain any argument. Doesn’t mean I won’t think someone is a little wonky, but I won’t just ridicule or dismiss someone outright because they express an opinion I think is asinine.

"Dissenting" opinions are welcome as long as they're not nonsensical.

The problem with that is everybody has a different idea of what’s nonsensical. I’ve seen plenty of valid, well articulated opinion dismissed as nonsense on the board just because they ruffled the feathers of the resident clique.

Last night is a perfect example of the insanity that was the argument of Tyreke not being an elite penetrator

Actually, no one made that argument that I saw. People were objecting to the idea of him being a “top 5 driving ability” and other hyperbole in the OP.

With that said, it’s still silly that the board would go into a hissy fit just because they thought some folks didn’t agree that Tyreke was elite at penetrating.

I can see people obviously disagreeing, it’s the getting all flustered and flummoxed about it that I don’t relate to.

 

[pshn80]

I've seen no lack of dissenting opinions on these threads. Maybe it's something else.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I've seen no lack of dissenting opinions on these threads. Maybe it's something else.

It's not that you can't stray from the herd...it's that you can't stray TOO FAR from the herd. You're allowed your own view, as long as it remains within the acceptable parameters of the herd. Drift outside those parameters though and you'll be promptly ostracized.

 

[Warhawk]

It's not that you can't stray from the herd...it's that you can't stray TOO FAR from the herd. You're allowed your own view, as long as it remains within the acceptable parameters of the herd. Drift outside those parameters though and you'll be promptly ostracized.

If you mean ridiculed by those who know what they are talking about, yeah.

You can post whatever opinions you like regarding the Kings, etc. But be prepared to back them up. And don't spam the board with posts in doing so. And don't be a jerk. You follow those rules and you will generally not have any problems. You start posting stupid s***, you are going to be called on it. You start spamming the board with stupid, petty arguments over and over, we're going to have problems. Simple.

Edit: And, for the record, I frequently agree with what you post!

And for EVERYONE: this discussion isn't about the individual posters, it's about the posts themselves. Any other questions about the moderation here? Go to PMs. Doesn't belong on the board.

Again, any other "insights" into the moderation here - take them to PMs.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

If you mean ridiculed by those who know what they are talking about, yeah.

You can post whatever opinions you like regarding the Kings, etc. But be prepared to back them up. And don't spam the board with posts in doing so. And don't be a jerk. You follow those rules and you will generally not have any problems. You start posting stupid s***, you are going to be called on it. You start spamming the board with stupid, petty arguments over and over, we're going to have problems. Simple.

Those doing the ridiculing always think they're the ones who know what they're talking about, at least. I'd agree to that. In response to your other points, I'm not sure why you're telling me, as I've never done those things. I've never once spammed the board. I generally always back up my opinion with either facts or some reasoning. Granted, I can be argumentative, but I don't see why that in itself should be a problem. I try and keep it civil and refrain from personal attacks. Not because those are the rules but because that's just the way i am.

 

[Glenn]

I'll borrow some words from Dime Dropper. If you are writing a note when flustered and flummoxed, finish it, but then re-read it. Then edit it because it may be expressing something aggravating to the readers. Can't believe I am saying this but at times I feel a little sorry for people who can't recognize when their anger seems to ooze out of the note. I feel sorry for us all as we have to read that stuff. It ends up with the poster being bewildered that he/she said something that aggravated people. It's probably a pattern of the way people are relating that they are not aware of.

Now there are some posters I just can't stand. Very, very few. I just Ignore them. They hit buttons on me that bring out the worst in me. I am not so self centered as to think that people remember how I used to be but I was one angry dude at certain people. The Ignore feature has changed me from a guy who frequently had to back away from the screen for a day to get my composure to someone who I think seldom is seen as angry. I know I rarely feel angry anymore. Ignore the people that set you off. Life is too short and for some of us, it is shorter than others. There are always plenty of other people to discuss issues with.