What the hell happend to this team?

[Uncia03]

The fuss is historical. That is, these bad game outcomes challenge my experience of watching losing Kings basketball. I have never seen it so bad as Wednesday. If it were an isolated event, no big deal. But it wasn't. When you can't even come close to losing with pride it's time to see what kind of tennis these guys play. That's what the fuss is about.

This season is historical.
Compressed schedule with all this time on the road, coaching change 10 games into the season, with basically no practice time for the new coach to try to implement a working system, combined with 2 starters out for the majority of the games after getting the new coach?

Again, this is a recipe for losing. Westphal's system that we spent our off-season working on was a complete failure, so we're having to start from scratch and we don't have the practice time to do it.

I mean, it's like people are expecting to have a nice tasty chocolate cake made for them when the ingredients available are vinegar and bone marrow and you don't have a working oven and have only 5 minutes to get it done. It shouldn't be surprising when you don't get a chocolate cake and to expect otherwise is unrealistic.

13 of our next 19 games are on the road, so if you're not happy now, you're really not going to be happy after we lose the number of games expected due to the road schedule. Fortunately the quality of opponent isn't nearly as hard as it has been in the past, but with-out the time to practice the new system, I don't think it's going to matter very much.

I believe we have the talent to win. But I get the feeling that people don't understand how important a working system is to winning basketball. Westphal was fired because his system was a failure of epic proportions.

Until we get our guys healthy and locked into a working system we are going to lose. Unfortunately for us, this compressed season and road games make it very difficult to get the guys into a working system.

 

[Larry David]

Wing players that require a live dribble to be effective: Evans, Salmons, Jimmer, Thornton

Of that group, players that are good at setting up their scoring without having the ball: none.

Of that group, players that are better when you use the pick and roll: none.

This wasn't a good team before, but the team's move to take Jimmer and jam Salmons into the mix is a killer. And it was called as much at the time.

 

[kupman]

I mean, it's like people are expecting to have a nice tasty chocolate cake made for them when the ingredients available are vinegar and bone marrow and you don't have a working oven and have only 5 minutes to get it done. It shouldn't be surprising when you don't get a chocolate cake and to expect otherwise is unrealistic.

I have seen some contestants on "Top Chef" do this successfully.

Just sayin'.

 

[gunks]

Wing players that require a live dribble to be effective: Evans, Salmons, Jimmer, Thornton

Of that group, players that are good at setting up their scoring without having the ball: none.

Of that group, players that are better when you use the pick and roll: none.

This wasn't a good team before, but the team's move to take Jimmer and jam Salmons into the mix is a killer. And it was called as much at the time.

For real. GP ****'d up. I forget who made that thread about the horrible offseason, but I (being optimistic and dismissive of the OP at the time) need to eat some crow infront of whoever it was that made that thread. Crow seasoned with tears....And maybe some rosemary.

 

[Lockehead]

We never had a basis for a team. We had something going with Beno/Reke/Thornton-Casspi-SF/Cousins/Dalembert. We threw out Beno, casspi, and dalembert who were glue players. No glue makes our team look like a bunch of scattered pieces. Added salmons to the starting lineup and hayes. Hayes has some glue, but salmons virtually nil. So we have Reke/Thornton/Salmons/Cuz/Hayes. Reke, thornton, and salmons are all individual players. LOOK at the beginning of the season. WHat do you envision when you recollect them getting the ball? Score first mentality- look for their own shot - ignore the rest of the team. There you go, 3/5 of the starting lineup are broken apart and are disconnected from the rest of the team. Cousins does both - does his own one on one thing, and has a bit of glue as well. The glue thing is pretty much all Hayes does. Thornton out, Jimmer in, and we have a bit of chemistry going. Not with all of our players, but moreso than we had before. Cisco gets thrown into the mix and we have a little bit more team play.

The point is we are FAR behind most in the league in terms of having a TEAM. I'm not talking about a group of players with talent, im talking a team where the single unit is greater than the sum of its parts.

WITH that said, WHO do we rely on for so much of our offense in these past 2-3 years. Tyreke. There is NO denying the fact that he is a HUGE part of our team. NO denying that. He's our ROY for goodness' sake. And our "PG" as well. BUT, Tyreke has shown he is probably THE biggest tunnel-visioned, score first mentality having, individual game guy on our team. At the same time he has been our primary ballhandler for some time now. And people are wondering why we arent a team? We had team players who tried and wanted to play as a team. Hawes complained, got suspended. Beno alluded to it in interviews, so did Casspi and Nocioni. but they're gone. So what do we do now. I guess we're far behind a lot of the teams in the league in terms of having cohesiveness. Our basis is still in shambles. We have the talent sure, but the chemistry? Let's work on that.

I think beginning from our Spurs game, we've started going for this team thing. Before that we were a total disaster for most of the season. We're going to look ugly, but that doesn't mean we should protect ourselves from it. Develop as a team and grow. Only way we're going to get better. THE fact that we have talent, special talent at that, in Cousins/Reke and possibly Thornton, only raises that roof on how high we can go. But it starts with developing as a team.

Well that's my rant. It's my own opinion and that's what i can see from watching the Kings for the past several years.

 

[Glenn]

For real. GP ****'d up. I forget who made that thread about the horrible offseason, but I (being optimistic and dismissive of the OP at the time) need to eat some crow infront of whoever it was that made that thread. Crow seasoned with tears....And maybe some rosemary.

Rainmaker. This was also during the period when many people were thrilled by or depth.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Wing players that require a live dribble to be effective: Evans, Salmons, Jimmer, Thornton

Wait a minute here. Can you make me a list of wing players in the NBA who are effective without a live dribble? Seems like it should be a pretty rare skill, as any competent defender will get right in your face once you pick up your dribble. Who is effective under those circumstances?

 

[gunks]

On the plus side:

Cousins' FG% in January is 48.8%! Still a bit low for a big, but a great improvement over last season! He's also averaging 11 boards in 28 minutes! Wow!

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

On the plus side:

Cousins' FG% in January is 48.8%! Still a bit low for a big, but a great improvement over last season! He's also averaging 11 boards in 28 minutes! Wow!

Another plus is that Jimmer's 3 point % is now up to 36% for the season.

 

[IfAt1st]

For real. GP ****'d up. I forget who made that thread about the horrible offseason, but I (being optimistic and dismissive of the OP at the time) need to eat some crow infront of whoever it was that made that thread. Crow seasoned with tears....And maybe some rosemary.

Well, the earlier thread that was about the Beno/Salmons thread, you were on the side that didn't like the trade.

Here's the people that were wrong and deserve some crow:
sactownfan, rookieofhteday, circ_1985_fan, (bajaden), King Baller, cuad, beb0p, OnYouLikeGlue, Entity, FaStRmAn , jcwkings, pilot305, sackings, pshn80, Carolija ("Oh and Salmons is VERY VERY good defender. Not above average but one of the best defensive players in the league. If anything, going by the stats from 82games his defense has improved since the last time he was here"), Smills91, Bricklayer, Heuge, The Hammer

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Well, the earlier thread that was about the Beno/Salmons thread, you were on the side that didn't like the trade.

Here's the people that were wrong and deserve some crow:
sactownfan, rookieofhteday, circ_1985_fan, (bajaden), King Baller, cuad, beb0p, OnYouLikeGlue, Entity, FaStRmAn , jcwkings, pilot305, sackings, pshn80, Carolija ("Oh and Salmons is VERY VERY good defender. Not above average but one of the best defensive players in the league. If anything, going by the stats from 82games his defense has improved since the last time he was here"), Smills91, Bricklayer, Heuge, The Hammer

Hold up... I'll gladly eat crow when I deserve it but i don't see what i said that warrants it. I didn't say anything positive about the trade that I can see.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

this franchise is such a mess, im honestly depressed in real life... my team is going to ****. its not like we were good before, but godamn, we arent even watchable anymore. Im a hockey fan all of a sudden "GO LEAFS"!!!! =) .. Fire Gp, get some new owners, make some trades, i dont effing care.. but for the love of the fans, please do something to make this team watchable THIS YEAR!!! its nt always about winning a championship, but sometimes just about watching the game you love, and im having a hard time even doing that....

sorry guys i always come on here and post beer filled rants,,, because of the state my Kings are in. I just miss it, i miss caring.. I want my squad back. CHUCK HAYES GO SUPER SAYIAN!! KAMAYAMEYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JIMMER CHNNALE JOHN STOCKTRON BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
DEMARCUS HULK SMASH SOMEONE!!!!!!!
THORNTON go CLInt eastwood on muh fu**** !!
IT MIDGET BALLLL, THINK MUGSY, THINK BOYKINS, THINK MINI MEES ACTING CARREERR!
SSMART DONT BE DUMB!

son of a mother duck. gonna go funnel some more muther efing beers to get rid of this feeling!


[/I]

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Here's the people that were wrong and deserve some crow:
sactownfan, rookieofhteday, circ_1985_fan, (bajaden), King Baller, cuad, beb0p, OnYouLikeGlue, Entity, FaStRmAn , jcwkings, pilot305, sackings, pshn80, Carolija ("Oh and Salmons is VERY VERY good defender. Not above average but one of the best defensive players in the league. If anything, going by the stats from 82games his defense has improved since the last time he was here"), Smills91, Bricklayer, Heuge, The Hammer

Here are the people who are behaving remarkably badly by trying to call out and shame others based on a six-month-old thread: IfAt1st

 

[rainmaker]

Well, the earlier thread that was about the Beno/Salmons thread, you were on the side that didn't like the trade.

Here's the people that were wrong and deserve some crow:
sactownfan, rookieofhteday, circ_1985_fan, (bajaden), King Baller, cuad, beb0p, OnYouLikeGlue, Entity, FaStRmAn , jcwkings, pilot305, sackings, pshn80, Carolija ("Oh and Salmons is VERY VERY good defender. Not above average but one of the best defensive players in the league. If anything, going by the stats from 82games his defense has improved since the last time he was here"), Smills91, Bricklayer, Heuge, The Hammer

That's quite ridiculous and childish behavior.

First, pretty sure gunks post was referring to my thread, not yours, yet you had to jump in a tweet your own horn.

Second, I definitely wouldn't, and I've never seen anyone else on here either, go back to an old thread, post it, and name by name call out everyone you think should eat crow. That means today you actually read through that thread, with the sole purpose of posting by name every poster who disagreed with you.

Wouldn't it be better to actually respond to particular posts to the members you disagree with, point out what they personally said, and let them respond? If _____ makes a post, and says something in conflict with what they posted previously, or you think they're wrong, then respond to _____, and let them defend themselves. What you did seems incredibly passive aggressive to me.

 

[swisshh]

Well, the earlier thread that was about the Beno/Salmons thread, you were on the side that didn't like the trade.

Here's the people that were wrong and deserve some crow:
sactownfan, rookieofhteday, circ_1985_fan, (bajaden), King Baller, cuad, beb0p, OnYouLikeGlue, Entity, FaStRmAn , jcwkings, pilot305, sackings, pshn80, Carolija ("Oh and Salmons is VERY VERY good defender. Not above average but one of the best defensive players in the league. If anything, going by the stats from 82games his defense has improved since the last time he was here"), Smills91, Bricklayer, Heuge, The Hammer

oh so much crow from both threads to be had

Showtime's post in the Beno trade thread is great.

 

[Larry89]

The Ron Artest Kings ran an offense better than this atrocity we are watching

 

[Bricklayer]

The Ron Artest Kings ran an offense better than this atrocity we are watching

Lost as usual in the offensive concerns is the fact that our offense may have been improving pretty much game to game for the last week. Percentages are up. Assists are up. What has gotten even worse have been the defensive woes.

 

[rainmaker]

Lost as usual in the offensive concerns is the fact that our offense may have been improving pretty much game to game for the last week. Percentages are up. Assists are up. What has gotten even worse have been the defensive woes.

It's quite amazing to hear Smart talk about needing to improve defensively and on the boards, yet he continuously goes to small ball, which hurts our chances of doing either. Don Nelsons style of play lent itself to poor defense, and if Smart follows his philosophy, then his small ball system almost by default will prevent us from being an even average defensive team. And that doesn't even get into Petrie's decisions, which I know you're well aware of.

 

[pshn80]

The happiest person around right now has got to be Westphal. He doesn't have to wish us ill to enjoy the fact he isn't coaching this team this year. Peace.

 

[IfAt1st]

Second, I definitely wouldn't, and I've never seen anyone else on here either, go back to an old thread, post it, and name by name call out everyone you think should eat crow. That means today you actually read through that thread, with the sole purpose of posting by name every poster who disagreed with you.

uh..... you're welcome...?

Yep! Sure did.
You know what? It's kinda fun seeing how wrong some of you "expert KF's" who make thousands of posts through the years and baffle all us more lurker-types who don't care to trawl 82games and make up statistical evidence to blind us to what we see on the court on a nightly basis.

You may think that many KF's being very wrong in regards to offseason moves is irrelevant - on the contrary, I feel it is important to remember. It suggests that their all-knowing beliefs about what the team should do to fix things aren't necessarily accurate, either.

And if I'm the only person that will spend his time to show who proved who did and didn't know this Kings team, than I'll gladly take that "childish" mantle.
I didn't toot my horn, there were lots of people who were clearer than me about the off-season moves (Showtime's post in particular NAILED it).

So you go ahead and post your way, I'll post my way.
I coulda posted exactly what each person said that proved to be wrong, but then you'd have a problem with that, too.

 

[IfAt1st]

Hold up... I'll gladly eat crow when I deserve it but i don't see what i said that warrants it. I didn't say anything positive about the trade that I can see.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised to see you were arguing for the trade at all, and you only weakly defended them, but I was referring to these comments of yours:

"It replaced a notoriously bad defender with a good defender. It addressed a positional need on the team. It cleared up room for Jimmer in the rotation."
"If they aren't in the playoffs this year or next, it will be largely due to Tyreke not fulfilling expectations. With Thornton, Cousins, Jimmer, Hickson, and Salmons around, you can't say Tyreke doesn't have plenty of help."

Actually, you CAN say Tyreke doesn't have much help.
I've got no problem with Reke when he actually gets around his man and sets up someone else for an open shot, and they miss. I mentally add 2 or 3 assists to his totals almost every game.

I'm beginning to conclude the entire drive-and-kick offensive system is broken for this team, and there's no way this team will ever be successful with it, so it should be dumped ASAP!
They should be working on drive-and-pass to slashing teammates (especially accompanying big men), give-and-goes, pick-and-rolls, high-post big man centered offense, etc instead.

 

[jpsls]

Calling out posters by name on a prediction they made months ago is uncalled for. Both sides had equally valid arguments.

 

[IfAt1st]

Calling out posters by name on a prediction they made months ago is uncalled for. Both sides had equally valid arguments.

That's funny -

KF's is as accountable as the Kings, then.

 

[Prince_XY]

It's kinda fun seeing how wrong some of you "expert KF's" who make thousands of posts through the years and baffle all us more lurker-types who don't care to trawl 82games and make up statistical evidence to blind us to what we see on the court on a nightly basis.

I agree. What you did was kind of fun.

Some of these so-called "expert KF's" sometimes have the nerves to call others "idiots/morons" or say you don't know basketball when you don't agree with them - as if they were infallible or they'd been an NBA owner, GM, coach, or player before and that they are all-knowing.

I think we should have more of this kind of post to trim the ego's of some of these arrogant so-called "expert KF's".

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, this sort of posting behavior is also going to stop. It serves no purpose but to build up terminally bad blood.

 

[Italics]

Okay, this sort of posting behavior is also going to stop. It serves no purpose but to build up terminally bad blood.

^ Listen to the expert on this

 

[The Hammer]

Granted our defense has been worse, but has anybody else tracked Orlando's epic meltdown of a week? Scored 57 points one game. Two games later blew a 25 point lead by scoring 25 in the second half. Game after that scored 67. AGAINST THE HORNETS. They were 11-4 going into that stretch.

This is a Van Gundy coached team here. Mostly veterans. With one of the best players in the league on it. 3 of their last 4 games have been meltdowns of horrific proportions.

This is a weird season, mostly due to the schedule.

Take solace.

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=320127003

 

[mac]

Okay, this sort of posting behavior is also going to stop. It serves no purpose but to build up terminally bad blood.

Oh please do ban some of them. It would make my life so much better

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised to see you were arguing for the trade at all, and you only weakly defended them, but I was referring to these comments of yours:

"It replaced a notoriously bad defender with a good defender. It addressed a positional need on the team. It cleared up room for Jimmer in the rotation."
"If they aren't in the playoffs this year or next, it will be largely due to Tyreke not fulfilling expectations. With Thornton, Cousins, Jimmer, Hickson, and Salmons around, you can't say Tyreke doesn't have plenty of help."

Actually, you CAN say Tyreke doesn't have much help.
I've got no problem with Reke when he actually gets around his man and sets up someone else for an open shot, and they miss. I mentally add 2 or 3 assists to his totals almost every game.

I'm beginning to conclude the entire drive-and-kick offensive system is broken for this team, and there's no way this team will ever be successful with it, so it should be dumped ASAP!
They should be working on drive-and-pass to slashing teammates (especially accompanying big men), give-and-goes, pick-and-rolls, high-post big man centered offense, etc instead.

I stand by "If they aren't in the playoffs this year or next, it will be largely due to Tyreke not fulfilling expectations." If he plays his A game even 3/4 of the time, the Kings have 2 or 3 more wins right now, at least. I will eat a little Crow for stating that Salmons would be any type of help at all, though. Wow, I never imagined he'd be THIS bad.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Okay, this sort of posting behavior is also going to stop. It serves no purpose but to build up terminally bad blood.

It only causes bad blood if folks are uptight...which means it causes lots of bad blood here. Personally, I don't mind dishing out a little crow or eating a little crow when appropriate. If it's not being done in a mean spirited way, i don't see the problem. It can also be kind of interesting to see how things have changed in six months, how opinions have evolved, etc.