What the hell happend to this team?

P

ppine

Starter
#91
#91
The Kings are starting to remind me of the Cleveland Indians in the movie "Major League." The lame duck management has an overwhelming effect on the team and their morale, not to mention the shortened season. Smart seems like a capable coach, but we all expected him to make a bad situation better. The adjustment by all of the young players on the team will take time. Sometimes, it feels like the Kings aren't that bad, but other teams have gotten better. If the Kings continue to lose by 25 on their own floor even the die hard fans will start ot lose interest.

I hate to admit it, but have watched the Warriors some, but I really enjoy watching the Clippers now.

Cisco looked scared to death last night, like a high school kid in a dome for the first time. Will we ever figure out defensive balance and start to defend fast breaks? I would start there. Then I would find a psychologist and figure out why the Kings are about to set a record for the worst shooting in NBA history. Team defense is really weak especially against teams that can pass. Salmons looks like a guy who wants to get fired. His play shows no interest much less skill. The rookies are doing fine, and can play pretty well in clean up time. I really miss Dalembert.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#93
#93
Bricklayer said:
I mentioned this in the last grades thread, albeit belatedly. But people have to remember that we have played the toughest schedule in the NBA thus far. 14 of our 19 opponents have had winning records. Against the 5 who have not, we are 3-2. We are also tied for the most road games in the NBA. Small sample size, but there is reason to believe that once the murderer's row is done and the team gets to finally start playing some games against teams at its level, that it will start to look better. That obviously will not make them a good team. But the extreme thumpings should subside and its possible we could even get in a rhythm as we start getting a lot of home games strung together against weaklings.
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And with it will come time to practice. This is where Smart gets his feet put to the fire because then we know what he's going to do with this squad.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#94
#94
Larry David said:
Last year they closed strong when, they played a point guard (Beno), with two other guards that like to chuck it, and two centers. That lineup worked together.

This year, they've got no point guard. Evens is back on the ball. Between Salmons and Jimmer, they've got 4 guys itching to chuck it in the backcourt and Cousins wants more shots.
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You missed the biggest point of what made it work though. Thornton came in and crushed it and they ran the offense through Cousins. All the other pieces were role oriented and far from catalysts when this team went from a crap offensive team to a pretty dang respectable one.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#95
#95
12 days ago we saw this team set a record for suckitude against the Mavs. We were ready to torch the place.

6 days ago we won our second game in a row by beating the Spurs on their home court. We were all giddy with excitement hoping that this team had turned the corner and "found themselves"

1 day ago the team lost their third game in a row giving up lay-up after dunk while taking horrible shots on our end. We are now wondering if it is time to clear the roster, fire the GM and force the owners to sell.

It has been a big week and a half.

I can't wait to see what happens next week.
 
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RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#96
#96
kupman said:
12 days ago we saw this team set a record for suckitude against the Mavs. We were ready to torch the place.

6 days ago we won our second game in a row by beating the Spurs on their home court. We were all giddy with excitement hoping that this team had turned the corner and "found themselves"

1 day ago the team had their third game in a row giving up lay-up after dunk while taking horrible shots on our end. We are now wondering if it is time to clear the roster, fire the GM and force the owners to sell.

It has been a big week and a half.

I can't wait to see what happens next week.
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I heard that the 92 points in the paint for Denver was a record as well. And they're on pace for a record low field goal % year. The Kings are becoming quite adept at setting records no one wants to have.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#97
#97
kupman said:
12 days ago we saw this team set a record for suckitude against the Mavs. We were ready to torch the place.

6 days ago we won our second game in a row by beating the Spurs on their home court. We were all giddy with excitement hoping that this team had turned the corner and "found themselves"

1 day ago the team had their third game in a row giving up lay-up after dunk while taking horrible shots on our end. We are now wondering if it is time to clear the roster, fire the GM and force the owners to sell.

It has been a big week and a half.

I can't wait to see what happens next week.
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I predict someone will say something dumb to the media, then apologize. We will beat a team that we shouldn't have, and lose to a team that we shouldn't have. Maybe even in that order. Someone from Anaheim will float an article about how they're still interested in the Kings, and everyone's feathers will get ruffled over Jimmermania once again.

Not bad in a week's worth of work.
 
whozit

whozit

Starter
#98
#98
RookieOfTheDay said:
I heard that the 92 points in the paint for Denver was a record as well. And they're on pace for a record low field goal % year. The Kings are becoming quite adept at setting records no one wants to have.
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During the days before the "Glory days," they were very adept at that. Look at who holds the record for most consecutive road losses ............................. that one will last.
 
S

Spok22

Bench
#99
#99
ppine said:
The Kings are starting to remind me of the Cleveland Indians in the movie "Major League." The lame duck management has an overwhelming effect on the team and their morale, not to mention the shortened season. Smart seems like a capable coach, but we all expected him to make a bad situation better. The adjustment by all of the young players on the team will take time. Sometimes, it feels like the Kings aren't that bad, but other teams have gotten better. If the Kings continue to lose by 25 on their own floor even the die hard fans will start ot lose interest.

I hate to admit it, but have watched the Warriors some, but I really enjoy watching the Clippers now.

Cisco looked scared to death last night, like a high school kid in a dome for the first time. Will we ever figure out defensive balance and start to defend fast breaks? I would start there. Then I would find a psychologist and figure out why the Kings are about to set a record for the worst shooting in NBA history. Team defense is really weak especially against teams that can pass. Salmons looks like a guy who wants to get fired. His play shows no interest much less skill. The rookies are doing fine, and can play pretty well in clean up time. I really miss Dalembert.
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Well, im starting to watch and like the Lakers now... Ya I feel like a traitor but it's refreshing watching a team where at least one guy shows up to every game, even if he's injured.
 
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SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#106
#106
kupman said:
12 days ago we saw this team set a record for suckitude against the Mavs. We were ready to torch the place.

6 days ago we won our second game in a row by beating the Spurs on their home court. We were all giddy with excitement hoping that this team had turned the corner and "found themselves"

1 day ago the team lost their third game in a row giving up lay-up after dunk while taking horrible shots on our end. We are now wondering if it is time to clear the roster, fire the GM and force the owners to sell.

It has been a big week and a half.

I can't wait to see what happens next week.
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And these are the days of our lives. And the trials and tribulations of the youngest team in the league! Oops, pardon my french.
 
RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#107
#107
SacTownKid said:
And these are the days of our lives. And the trials and tribulations of the youngest team in the league! Oops, pardon my french.
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Ah, there's that silly youth excuse again. They're getting demolished by 30 every other night because they're young! That's it! Yet, somehow, the Timberwolves, who are actually younger if you don't include Brad Miller and Luke Ridnour, are nearly playing .500 ball starting a rookie PG and Darko! Oh, and did I mention they've only lost by double digits four times and never by more than 15? That Adlemen really must be a miracle worker, eh?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#108
#108
RookieOfTheDay said:
Ah, there's that silly youth excuse again. They're getting demolished by 30 every other night because they're young! That's it! Yet, somehow, the Timberwolves, who are actually younger if you don't include Brad Miller and Luke Ridnour, are nearly playing .500 ball starting a rookie PG and Darko! Oh, and did I mention they've only lost by double digits four times and never by more than 15? That Adlemen really must be a miracle worker, eh?
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Uh yes, quite. Did you see how the Wolves did last year by any chance?
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#109
#109
Every time I hear Jerry Reynolds speak, I am reminded of how weak the upper management is on this team beyond Petrie. Today he was interviewed on the radio and spoke of being surprised at John Salmons' ineffectiveness.

How can a professional basketball personnel manager be surprised by this?

For the past three years, his production has dropped off. The evidence of him losing a step was apparent to people last year. It was written about, and I presume, it was a part of scouting reports. This is not something that happened this year, where the Kings can claim "OMG this came from out of nowhere." People and scouts knew this about John. The only people who did not know this seem to be the Kings. That trade is just a total breakdown in scouting and player analysis. So is the continual lack of a vet PG. So is thinking that the team was capable of surviving without a shotblocker. There is a huge gap in the Kings brain trust.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#111
#111
swisshh said:
Every time I hear Jerry Reynolds speak, I am reminded of how weak the upper management is on this team beyond Petrie. Today he was interviewed on the radio and spoke of being surprised at John Salmons' ineffectiveness.

How can a professional basketball personnel manager be surprised by this?

For the past three years, his production has dropped off. The evidence of him losing a step was apparent to people last year. It was written about, and I presume, it was a part of scouting reports. This is not something that happened this year, where the Kings can claim "OMG this came from out of nowhere." People and scouts knew this about John. The only people who did not know this seem to be the Kings. That trade is just a total breakdown in scouting and player analysis. So is the continual lack of a vet PG. So is thinking that the team was capable of surviving without a shotblocker. There is a huge gap in the Kings brain trust.
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I have heard that crap on Kings telecasts, with Grant repeatedly setting up Jerry with "well how much do you expect John Salmons to score once he gets going" type lines, and the little schmuck consistently replying 14-15ppg, as if that were even possible alongside Reke.Cousins/Thornton even if he wasn't in decline. Reynolds' silly conclusions have always bothered me on our telecasts, because this is a guy that presumably talks to Geoff and iis involved at some level in the personnel discussions. It always scares me to think that he speaks for management as a whole.

I've mentioend before that Geoff made a similar mistake with Nick Anderson back in '00.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#112
#112
Bricklayer said:
I have heard that crap on Kings telecasts, with Grant repeatedly setting up Jerry with "well how much do you expect John Salmons to score once he gets going" type lines, and the little schmuck consistently replying 14-15ppg, as if that were even possible alongside Reke.Cousins/Thornton even if he wasn't in decline. Reynolds' silly conclusions have always bothered me on our telecasts, because this is a guy that presumably talks to Geoff and iis involved at some level in the personnel discussions. It always scares me to think that he speaks for management as a whole.

I've mentioend before that Geoff made a similar mistake with Nick Anderson back in '00.
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You could also say he over-invested in Shareef, a player with bad knees, and now that same player is his assistant GM.
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#113
#113
Bricklayer said:
I have heard that crap on Kings telecasts, with Grant repeatedly setting up Jerry with "well how much do you expect John Salmons to score once he gets going" type lines, and the little schmuck consistently replying 14-15ppg, as if that were even possible alongside Reke.Cousins/Thornton even if he wasn't in decline. Reynolds' silly conclusions have always bothered me on our telecasts, because this is a guy that presumably talks to Geoff and iis involved at some level in the personnel discussions. It always scares me to think that he speaks for management as a whole.

I've mentioend before that Geoff made a similar mistake with Nick Anderson back in '00.
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Why does should we expect a broadcaster to be impartial when publicly discussing his opinions on the team, unless of course he wants to be reprimanded by the owners. You don't think broadcasters will be homers towards the team individuals and team they cover? If Geoff gets so easily pushed around by guys like Westphal and Reynolds, maybe Petrie is the problem. He's just a yes man attempting to please everybody. It seems like people are giving Geoff a pass based on a team he constructed a decade ago...
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#114
#114
jpsls said:
Why does should we expect a broadcaster to be impartial when publicly discussing his opinions on the team, unless of course he wants to be reprimanded by the owners. You don't think broadcasters will be homers towards the team individuals and team they cover? If Geoff gets so easily pushed around by guys like Westphal and Reynolds, maybe Petrie is the problem. He's just a yes man attempting to please everybody. It seems like people are giving Geoff a pass based on a team he constructed a decade ago...
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A lot of basketball neophytes who don't know any better learn whatever they can pick up from telecasts. You have a responsiblity not to be an idiot and confuse them.

But you misunderstand me if you think I am saying Reynolds runs the show behind the scenes. My concern is that he DOESN'T, that Geoff doesn;t listen to him but that he lsitens to Geoff, and that he would never make such stupid statements about a guy like Salmons if he knew from the front office meetings he sits in on that Geoff's opinion was radically different. For all that the dumb statements annoy me, its always been my sincerest hope that they are just dumnb statments by a TV color guy, and not the statments of a front office indsider trying to spread what he sees as the party line.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#115
#115
Bricklayer said:
A lot of basketball neophytes who don't know any better learn whatever they can pick up from telecasts. You have a responsiblity not to be an idiot and confuse them.

But you misunderstand me if you think I am saying Reynolds runs the show behind the scenes. My concern is that he DOESN'T, that Geoff doesn;t listen to him but that he lsitens to Geoff, and that he would never make such stupid statements about a guy like Salmons if he knew from the front office meetings he sits in on that Geoff's opinion was radically different. For all that the dumb statements annoy me, its always been my sincerest hope that they are just dumnb statments by a TV color guy, and not the statments of a front office indsider trying to spread what he sees as the party line.
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He's not talking to you, he's talking to me and I enjoy both of them and I'm long past judging them. Jerry more than meets the criteria, he knows the game and he adds color. They may be a little 'hicksville' and 'contrified' but they're just fine for me.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#116
#116
Jerry doesn't know the game that well. He is old and remembers well, and retells what he remembers. His analysis is rather dumb. For example, he remembers Salmons being a good defender, but he doesn't realize that such a quality ceased to exist a year ago, long before trading for him. That's not the point though. The issue is his closeness to decision making and how much he reflects a poor brain trust.
 
mcsluggo

mcsluggo

Starter
#117
#117
RookieOfTheDay said:
Ah, there's that silly youth excuse again. They're getting demolished by 30 every other night because they're young! That's it! Yet, somehow, the Timberwolves, who are actually younger if you don't include Brad Miller and Luke Ridnour, are nearly playing .500 ball starting a rookie PG and Darko! Oh, and did I mention they've only lost by double digits four times and never by more than 15? That Adlemen really must be a miracle worker, eh?
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god i wish we had Adleman here again :(
 
Uncia03

Uncia03

Starter
#118
#118
I'm not certain what all the fuss is about.

I'll admit that the losses have been extremely painful this year due to all the blow-outs, and that was one of the things that we could hang our hat on last year was that even though we were losing, we weren't getting blown out, but that's besides the point.

Westphal failed us in every way by trying to install an offensive system which had zero chance of succeeding.

Let's look at the facts
1.) We've played the hardest schedule to date.
2.) We've played the most road games to date.
3.) Other than the recently fired Saunders, we're the only team dealing with a coaching change in the middle of the season.
4.) The coach was fired because the system he wanted was inept, which means that what little training camp we had was completely worthless.
5.)Our new coach has had no time to practice implementing a new system due to having the most road games in the league so far.
5.) Our new coach has had the luxury of having his starting line-up on the floor for a total of 8 minutes and 40 seconds. Then Hayes goes out, then Thornton goes out.
6.) We are the youngest team in the league with the least amount of playing time together with what should be our core players. (Tyreke, DeMarcus, & Thornton)
7.) Of our two major off-season acquisitions: Hayes has been hurt a significant portion of the season and has had no time to work with the new coach or the new system. Salmons has basically shown that he's not up to being an NBA quality player and provides no veteran leadership to offset his lack of effective play.

So once again, I'm not certain what all the fuss is about. To be honest, we've probably won more games than we should have given the circumstances facing the team.


I had higher expectations coming into this season, but given what's been going on, I just can't jump on the doom-and-gloom wagon along with everyone else.

This year may end up being a castastrophe, but it's getting getting harder and harder to come around here and reading 5+ threads talking about how bad our team is after every loss.

Until we get our guys healthy, implement a new system, have time to practice the new system, and play a schedule which is slightly less murderous, the losses are going to continue to pile up. To think differently is just unrealistic at this time.

At this point in time, I'm trying to treat the Kings games like I do college basketball. I watch a ton of college basketball games, but I don't have any teams I root for, as I find the college game pretty boring. Instead, I focus on the players, what they do well, what they don't do well, which players can make it in the NBA, and especially which players might be a good fit for the Kings.

So taking the wins/losses out of it, there are a couple of bright spots that you can find while watching the Kings games.

Cousins has been playing like a monster and is a huge bright spot for this team.

Tyreke has shown that he can really run a team and be a great facilitator. As this change in focus in new to him, he needs to continue to grow in consistancy, and not get discouraged when his team is missing everything.

Jimmer is finally starting to shoot the ball well (There shouldn't be any surprises there.)

Thornton and Hayes both need to get healthy so we can see how our starters play in Smarts new system.

We're going to continue to lose a lot of games until some of the issues resolve themselves, and those issues just need time to be addressed. In the meantime, each loss is not the end of the world, nor does each loss call for blowing up the entire team.
We don't even have an idea of what this team will look like when fully healthly and up-to-date on Smart's new system, give it some time.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#119
#119
The fuss is historical. That is, these bad game outcomes challenge my experience of watching losing Kings basketball. I have never seen it so bad as Wednesday. If it were an isolated event, no big deal. But it wasn't. When you can't even come close to losing with pride it's time to see what kind of tennis these guys play. That's what the fuss is about.
 
RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#120
#120
pshn80 said:
The fuss is historical. That is, these bad game outcomes challenge my experience of watching losing Kings basketball. I have never seen it so bad as Wednesday. If it were an isolated event, no big deal. But it wasn't. When you can't even come close to losing with pride it's time to see what kind of tennis these guys play. That's what the fuss is about.
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This
 
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