Maloofs Remain Stubborn

RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#31
#31
Arco Arena said:
Also, I guarantee you all of it was tax deductible, and that they took full advantage of that.

Still... better than not doing anything at all, no?
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Definitely. I'm not saying it wasn't good. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense to expect folks not to dislike the Maloofs for how they've handled things over the last few months just because they gave to charity. it's a totally separates issue. They're good actions of the past don't somehow magically erase their bad actions of late.
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#32
#32
Section 101 said:
No they did not. The load to Thomas saved the team. It guaranteed they had to stay 10 years.
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That's right - I could have worded that part differently. So basically that was ten years of City Hall dithering which only freed Maloofs up around 2008 to start looking at other possible cities for relocation. Even then, they didn't do anything threatening like set a deadline (maybe they should have) and didn't make their proposed move until just past few months. Again, I have hard time dumping ONLY on the Maloofs with what they were faced with.
 
Jim Les

Jim Les

G-League
#34
#34
They're stupid. That's really the only way to describe them. I really can't sympathize for them, because they have been completely incapable of making educated long-term decisions.

They're stupid. They arrived in Sac in the late '90s and rode the wave of success that Petrie had already started (people love to hate on Petrie, but I maintain that he's been handcuffed by the Maloofs for over half a decade now). Things were rolling, and it's obvious that they didn't have the foresight to save for a rainy day. They even thought, very briefly, that they knew how to run a basketball organization better than the man (Petrie) who made the Kings a household name, and they began to mettle in affairs that they were woefully unsuited for.

They're stupid. Everything they touch, they ruin. They lost a casino and a beer company to retain an NBA franchise. They literally had two in the hand, and gambled it all for one in the bush, and it's going to cost them the wealth they inherited. They live in a vacuum where strategic business moves can be made in the blink of an eye, and they don't bother reading the fine-print.

They're stupid. They don't know when to shut-up and when to stay behind the scenes. They don't work hard, and they don't put forth the due diligence required to maintain an empire. They think they're entitled to prosperity and can't fathom a world where bone-headed decisions can lead to serious repercussions.

They're stupid. They are grown men who highlight their hair and wear shiny shirts underneath leather jackets.

They're stupid. They thought that Sacramento would just give them an arena in exchange for peanuts, and then thought that the city would sit idly by as they left for another town.

They're stupid.
 
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gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
Jim Les said:
They're stupid. That's really the only way to describe them. I really can't sympathize for them, because they have been completely incapable of making educated long-term decisions.

They're stupid. They arrived in Sac in the late '90s and rode the wave of success that Petrie had already started (people love to hate on Petrie, but I maintain that he's been hancuffed by the Maloofs for over half a decade now). Things were rolling, and it's obvious that they didn't have the foresight to save for a rainy day. They even thought, very briefly, that they knew how to run a basketball organization better than the man (Petrie) who made the Kings a household name, and they began to mettle in affairs that they were woefully unsuited for.

They're stupid. Everything they touch, they ruin. They lost a casino and a beer company to retain an NBA franchise. They literally had two in the hand, and gambled it all for one in the bush, and it's going to cost them the wealth they inherited. They live in a vacuum where strategic business moves can be made in the blink of an eye, and they don't bother reading the fine-print.

They're stupid. They don't know when to shut-up and when to stay behind the scenes. They don't work hard, and they don't put forth the due diligence required to maintain an empire. They think they're entitled to prosperity and can't fathom a world where bone-headed decisions can lead to serious repercussions.

They're stupid. They are grown men who highlight their hair and wear shiny shirts underneath leather jackets.

They're stupid. They thought that Sacramento would just give them an arena in exchange for peanuts, and then thought that the city would sit idly by as they left for another town.

They're stupid.
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You forgot about them wanting to move the team to Anaheim. That is pretty dumb. May have saved the Kings though.
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#36
#36
Jim Les said:
They're stupid. That's really the only way to describe them. I really can't sympathize for them, because they have been completely incapable of making educated long-term decisions.

They're stupid. They arrived in Sac in the late '90s and rode the wave of success that Petrie had already started (people love to hate on Petrie, but I maintain that he's been hancuffed by the Maloofs for over half a decade now). Things were rolling, and it's obvious that they didn't have the foresight to save for a rainy day. They even thought, very briefly, that they knew how to run a basketball organization better than the man (Petrie) who made the Kings a household name, and they began to mettle in affairs that they were woefully unsuited for.

They're stupid. Everything they touch, they ruin. They lost a casino and a beer company to retain an NBA franchise. They literally had two in the hand, and gambled it all for one in the bush, and it's going to cost them the wealth they inherited. They live in a vacuum where strategic business moves can be made in the blink of an eye, and they don't bother reading the fine-print.

They're stupid. They don't know when to shut-up and when to stay behind the scenes. They don't work hard, and they don't put forth the due diligence required to maintain an empire. They think they're entitled to prosperity and can't fathom a world where bone-headed decisions can lead to serious repercussions.

They're stupid. They are grown men who highlight their hair and wear shiny shirts underneath leather jackets.

They're stupid. They thought that Sacramento would just give them an arena in exchange for peanuts, and then thought that the city would sit idly by as they left for another town.

They're stupid.
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and City Hall is soooo incredibily smart - right? The esteemed city fathers (and mothers) who have kept this place permanently a cowtown mostly for themselves, jealous of outsiders (especially from despised private sector), fanatically jealous of so-called "rich playboys", even jealous of EACH OTHER with all their political backstabbing, infighting, and turf wars. Sacramento loves class warfare I guess, as it remains stuck in its own little small-minded world of stinking do nothing pettiness. Now KJ is trying to change all that - what a monumental task to try and turn around.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#37
#37
PurpleHaze said:
and City Hall is soooo incredibily smart - right? The esteemed city fathers (and mothers) who have kept this place permanently a cowtown mostly for themselves, jealous of outsiders (especially from despised private sector), fanatically jealous of so-called "rich playboys", even jealous of EACH OTHER with all their political backstabbing, infighting, and turf wars. Sacramento loves class warfare I guess, as it remains stuck in its own little small-minded world of stinking do nothing pettiness. Now KJ is trying to change all that - what a monumental task to try and turn around.
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Thumbs up.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#38
#38
Jim Les said:
They're stupid. Everything they touch, they ruin. They lost a casino and a beer company to retain an NBA franchise. They literally had two in the hand, and gambled it all for one in the bush, and it's going to cost them the wealth they inherited. They live in a vacuum where strategic business moves can be made in the blink of an eye, and they don't bother reading the fine-print.
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I wonder how their decision making process would have changed if they had kids? The only one who's getting whatever is left is the sisters kids.
 
Jim Les

Jim Les

G-League
#39
#39
PurpleHaze said:
and City Hall is soooo incredibily smart - right? The esteemed city fathers (and mothers) who have kept this place permanently a cowtown mostly for themselves, jealous of outsiders (especially from despised private sector), fanatically jealous of so-called "rich playboys", even jealous of EACH OTHER with all their political backstabbing, infighting, and turf wars. Sacramento loves class warfare I guess, as it remains stuck in its own little small-minded world of stinking do nothing pettiness. Now KJ is trying to change all that - what a monumental task to try and turn around.
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Politicians? Back-stabbing each other for their own political gain? WELL I NEVER?! You act as if that is somehow exclusive to Sacramento. And class warfare? Just about every city has some level of class warfare. The only ones that don't are cities whose voting blocks only consist of one class (Anaheim, much?). I'm surprised you didn't find a way to squeeze in your tired mantra of Sacramento politicians being "business obstructionists," or perhaps even another right-leaning talking point that you don't fully grasp.

And even if, for the sake of argument, that everything you said was true, what bearing does it have on the Maloofs being stupid? Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Palms is under water. Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Maloofs sold their only real profitable business. Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Maloofs folded the Monarchs. And Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Maloofs are in debt up to their ears. So what exactly is your point?
 
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PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#40
#40
Jim Les said:
Politicians? Back-stabbing each other for their own political gain? WELL I NEVER?! You act as if that is somehow exclusive to Sacramento. And class warfare? Just about every city has some level of class warfare. The only ones that don't are cities whose voting blocks only consist of one class (Anaheim, much?). I'm surprised you didn't find a way to squeeze in your tired mantra of Sacramento politicians being "business obstructionists," or perhaps even another right-leaning talking point that you don't fully grasp.

And even if, for the sake of argument, that everything you said was true, what bearing does it have on the Maloofs being stupid? Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Palms is under water. Sacramento politicans aren't the reason why the Maloofs sold their only real profitable business. Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Maloofs folded the Monarchs. And Sacramento politicians aren't the reason why the Maloofs are in debt up to their ears. So what exactly is your point?
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That if the arena plan had been in place none of this would be happening. But this is Sacramento. That's the point.
 
Jim Les

Jim Les

G-League
#41
#41
PurpleHaze said:
That if the arena plan had been in place none of this would be happening. But this is Sacramento. That's the point.
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And its solely the politicians responsibility to get an arena done? Gee, you think it might have been easier to do if the owners of the team were at least willing to meet them halfway to work out a reasonable plan?
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#43
#43
MDM said:
When an arena is being built next year, are you still going to be saying "But this is Sacramento?" The problem was never Sacramento itself.
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Of course, I will be jumping for joy if it happens - a pulled out of the hat incredible miracle. But if it doesn't happen, I will continue to point to the Byzantine, Balkanized, fractured, bureaucratic wasteland that has been the sad script Sacramento has written for itself going back decades.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#44
#44
We got some apparently good news, can we take the weekend off from sniping and enjoy it for a change? Watch the playoffs or something. :)
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#45
#45
kennadog said:
If we get that extra year, our energies need to be on really supporting our team and getting an arena built. I see no benefit to wasting time and energy holding grudges. In reality, this team in Sacramento matters to me, not who owns them.
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This, this, this, and this. If the team stays, all that matters is the arena. If that gets done, and they're guaranteed here long term, then I'm certainly willing to forgive and forget. This is bigger than the Maloofs, bigger than the city pols. It's about the Kings, and it's about Sacramento.
 
ArcoKings

ArcoKings

Starter
#46
#46
Jim Les said:
They're stupid. That's really the only way to describe them. I really can't sympathize for them, because they have been completely incapable of making educated long-term decisions.

They're stupid. They arrived in Sac in the late '90s and rode the wave of success that Petrie had already started (people love to hate on Petrie, but I maintain that he's been handcuffed by the Maloofs for over half a decade now). Things were rolling, and it's obvious that they didn't have the foresight to save for a rainy day. They even thought, very briefly, that they knew how to run a basketball organization better than the man (Petrie) who made the Kings a household name, and they began to mettle in affairs that they were woefully unsuited for.

They're stupid. Everything they touch, they ruin. They lost a casino and a beer company to retain an NBA franchise. They literally had two in the hand, and gambled it all for one in the bush, and it's going to cost them the wealth they inherited. They live in a vacuum where strategic business moves can be made in the blink of an eye, and they don't bother reading the fine-print.

They're stupid. They don't know when to shut-up and when to stay behind the scenes. They don't work hard, and they don't put forth the due diligence required to maintain an empire. They think they're entitled to prosperity and can't fathom a world where bone-headed decisions can lead to serious repercussions.

They're stupid. They are grown men who highlight their hair and wear shiny shirts underneath leather jackets.

They're stupid. They thought that Sacramento would just give them an arena in exchange for peanuts, and then thought that the city would sit idly by as they left for another town.

They're stupid.
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Your comments are STUPID. Why don't you buy the Kings and put up an arena since you are better. If not, STFU.
 
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TehSwimGuy

TehSwimGuy

Bench
#47
#47
PurpleHaze said:
That if the arena plan had been in place none of this would be happening. But this is Sacramento. That's the point.
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The taxpayers might have been more likely to contribute with a winning product on the floor that it looked like the Maloofs put some money into, rather than the lowest payroll in the NBA.

It's called the economy. We have more important things to be funding in California, and especially in Sacramento that are falling apart to worry about than solely a new arena. It's not just Sacramento...it's all of California that is hurting in terms of economy. The only reason you can say "But it's Sac" is because we're the only place even trying to build a new arena with things going down the crapper the way they have been.
 
TehSwimGuy

TehSwimGuy

Bench
#48
#48
ArcoKings said:
Your comments are STUPID. Why don't you buy the Kings and put up an arena since you are better. If not, STFU.
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That probably wins for stupidest post of the day. He probably can't because he's most likely not a millionaire or billionaire. Doesn't mean he can't anaylze or criticize the Maloofs for how they run things. Alot of people could probably do better, given the opportunity.

Example: Burkle could buy the Kings outright and fund a new arena all out of pocket. Doesn't mean he's the only person with the right to call the Maloofs stupid.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#49
#49
TehSwimGuy said:
The taxpayers might have been more likely to contribute with a winning product on the floor that it looked like the Maloofs put some money into, rather than the lowest payroll in the NBA.

It's called the economy. We have more important things to be funding in California, and especially in Sacramento that are falling apart to worry about than solely a new arena. It's not just Sacramento...it's all of California that is hurting in terms of economy. The only reason you can say "But it's Sac" is because we're the only place even trying to build a new arena with things going down the crapper the way they have been.
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The taxpayers weren't willing to pay a dime for that product while it was still winning and while everybody was still drunk on bubbles and deregulation.
 
vikinginferno

vikinginferno

Starter
#50
#50
TehSwimGuy said:
The taxpayers might have been more likely to contribute with a winning product on the floor that it looked like the Maloofs put some money into, rather than the lowest payroll in the NBA.

It's called the economy. We have more important things to be funding in California, and especially in Sacramento that are falling apart to worry about than solely a new arena. It's not just Sacramento...it's all of California that is hurting in terms of economy. The only reason you can say "But it's Sac" is because we're the only place even trying to build a new arena with things going down the crapper the way they have been.
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Orlando's new arena begs to differ.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#51
#51
It really scares me at this point that they are THIS stubborn.. my loyalty is not to them, its the players and the city the team represents.. don't really care who the owner is.. what I care about is how an owners skill and management would affect a product, and the willingness to stick it out with the city.

they just dont want to be in Sac anymore with them saying they are still exploring other options, they fan the flames of that burning bridge. what I worry about is if there is a next season what kind of product would they be putting out. Winning and bringing an entertaining product is no longer their concern, rather it is to save money, they are financially tied to whatever liability they have. and that affects the team, spending and if they truly stay the support for the arena.

its never going to be the same if the kings play in sac this coming season, there will be that awkwardness between fans and the maloofs. we will see how they changed their tune in the following weeks, the pressure is on them the most. but. KJ and the rest better keep the pace up.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#52
#52
PurpleHaze said:
That if the arena plan had been in place none of this would be happening. But this is Sacramento. That's the point.
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There was a problem with that though. the Maloofs wanted for Sac taxpayers to flip more than 70% of the bill with the Maloofs getting ownership of the arena. Most deals that came along the Maloofs wanted to own the arena outright, and they wanted the taxpayers or Sacramento City to may for most of it. They can't have it both ways.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#53
#53
Aenadin said:
It really scares me at this point that they are THIS stubborn.. my loyalty is not to them, its the players and the city the team represents.. don't really care who the owner is.. what I care about is how an owners skill and management would affect a product, and the willingness to stick it out with the city.

they just dont want to be in Sac anymore with them saying they are still exploring other options, they fan the flames of that burning bridge. what I worry about is if there is a next season what kind of product would they be putting out. Winning and bringing an entertaining product is no longer their concern, rather it is to save money, they are financially tied to whatever liability they have. and that affects the team, spending and if they truly stay the support for the arena.

its never going to be the same if the kings play in sac this coming season, there will be that awkwardness between fans and the maloofs. we will see how they changed their tune in the following weeks, the pressure is on them the most. but. KJ and the rest better keep the pace up.
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What I WORRY about is there being a lockout next year, and the whole arena issue gets ignored because there isn't any basketball going on to "hype" them up. Why supposrt an arena for Basketball when there isn't even basketball being played? The lockout couldn't have come at a worse time for us, so IF there is a lockout we got to keep the people fighting for that arena. The sad part is if there ISN'T a next season and we don't get the arena deal done then that last game against the Lakers would have been the last game here.
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#54
#54
Gary said:
What I WORRY about is there being a lockout next year, and the whole arena issue gets ignored because there isn't any basketball going on to "hype" them up. Why supposrt an arena for Basketball when there isn't even basketball being played? The lockout couldn't have come at a worse time for us, so IF there is a lockout we got to keep the people fighting for that arena. The sad part is if there ISN'T a next season and we don't get the arena deal done then that last game against the Lakers would have been the last game here.
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Yes, but it's not a Kings arena that we're aiming for. It's an entertainment complex that is used by entertainers and different groups. Also, we want the NCAA tournament to come back to Sacramento right? The arena isn't just for the Kings.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#55
#55
The Maloofs are no longer in the position of power to control their destiny. The league is exploring their activities and if they deliberately tank a season for a selfish reason, the liklihood of them getting support from the league to move further decreases.

All of this ignores that the Maloofs have promised to spend money on the team this summer and it ignores the team's situation in that it will be better no matter what. It is popular to jump on negative utterings from them and ignore positive utterings. Logic has gone out the door in a flood of emotion. The team is better now than the one that started the season. The liklihood that fans will not go to see this better team is remote.

The taxpayer will be in worse shape if the 25th largest employer in this city leaves and tax money from them is lost - tax money that can be used on police, fire, and schools.
 
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RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#56
#56
Gary said:
What I WORRY about is there being a lockout next year, and the whole arena issue gets ignored because there isn't any basketball going on to "hype" them up. Why supposrt an arena for Basketball when there isn't even basketball being played? The lockout couldn't have come at a worse time for us, so IF there is a lockout we got to keep the people fighting for that arena. The sad part is if there ISN'T a next season and we don't get the arena deal done then that last game against the Lakers would have been the last game here.
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I read or heard somewhere that they're hopeful that they can prevent a lockout.
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#57
#57
Gary said:
There was a problem with that though. the Maloofs wanted for Sac taxpayers to flip more than 70% of the bill with the Maloofs getting ownership of the arena. Most deals that came along the Maloofs wanted to own the arena outright, and they wanted the taxpayers or Sacramento City to may for most of it. They can't have it both ways.
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I've read different reports on that. Some say the Maloofs wanted to pay 3-4 million per year for 30 years, and they would pay off the existing loan to Sacramento. They then asked the city to raise $470 million through taxes. In return, they would essentially own the arena and take in all profits from Kings and non-Kings related events, parking, concession, etc. However, I remember that the city would be required to pay for any cost overruns, and arenas always cost more than initially believed--for example, Cowboys stadium cost 100% more than the original estimate, except Jerry Jones agreed to pay for all cost overruns.

Some posters on here say the Maloofs offered to pay $10 million/year on a 30 year lease. May have been an empty offer as they knew prop q and r would have been defeated anyways.
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#58
#58
Glenn said:
The Maloofs are no longer in the position of power to control their destiny. The league is exploring their activities and if they deliberately tank a season for a selfish reason, the liklihood of them getting support from the league to move further decreases.

All of this ignores that the Maloofs have promised to spend money on the team this summer and it ignores the team's situation in that it will be better no matter what. It is popular to jump on negative utterings from them and ignore positive utterings. Logic has gone out the door in a flood of emotion. The team is better now than the one that started the season. The liklihood that fans will not go to see this better team is remote.

The taxpayer will be in worse shape if the 25th largest employer in this city leaves and tax money from them is lost - tax money that can be used on police, fire, and schools.
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They said they would spend after owners and players agreed on a new CBA, but the Maloofs thought they would be in Anaheim by then.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#59
#59
jpsls said:
I've read different reports on that. Some say the Maloofs wanted to pay 3-4 million per year for 30 years, and they would pay off the existing loan to Sacramento. They then asked the city to raise $470 million through taxes. In return, they would essentially own the arena and take in all profits from Kings and non-Kings related events, parking, concession, etc. However, I remember that the city would be required to pay for any cost overruns, and arenas always cost more than initially believed--for example, Cowboys stadium cost 100% more than the original estimate, except Jerry Jones agreed to pay for all cost overruns.

Some posters on here say the Maloofs offered to pay $10 million/year on a 30 year lease. May have been an empty offer as they knew prop q and r would have been defeated anyways.
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Where did you read this.
 
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