Kings owner: No contact with group behind Sacramento arena plan

[Peter_Gibbons]

http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2011/03/kings-owner-no.html

"Kings co-owner Joe Maloof said today he hasn't spoken recently with the two men trying to pull together a last-ditch arena plan designed to keep the team from leaving Sacramento.

"I spoke to them in the past, but not recently," Maloof said. He declined further comment."

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

"R.E. Graswich, an aide to Mayor Kevin Johnson, said Van Dusen and Haight floated a proposal late last fall to remodel Arco Arena, now known as Power Balance Pavilion. The estimated cost was $80 million to $100 million."

So apparently Arco (I refuse to address it by the new name) CAN be remodeled. Though $100 million seems like way too much to just remodel and have the rest of the building fall apart later.

 

[pshn80]

I applaud any ideas and efforts to keep the Kings here. I don't have a better plan so let's go with theirs.

 

[ArcoKings]

So this is the big fuss behind Wednesday night's Fox report? The article above mentions:

"... But he said city officials, after consulting with a construction contractor, decided a retrofit still wouldn't bring the building up to NBA standards".


A remodel of the building is still not good enough for the NBA.

 

[Glenn]

What are NBA standards? There is another discussion that happened and may be going on that the modern NBA arena is a mini city. It has restaurants, places to dance and in essence are self sufficient. They aren't the kind of place that would rejuvenate anything because people would not leave the building and also might not watch the game beteween textings. The economy has changed. The NBA can't continue with this "bigger is better" attitude. No building will change the experience of watching the team and I could argue easily that the cramped ARCO is an advantage to the Kings because it is a living hell to the opposition.

Why is that bad?

This simply said the Maloofs haven't talked with these two people. No comment further. Why not?

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

What are NBA standards? There is another discussion that happened and may be going on that the modern NBA arena is a mini city. It has restaurants, places to dance and in essence are self sufficient. They aren't the kind of place that would rejuvenate anything because people would not leave the building and also might not watch the game beteween textings. The economy has changed. The NBA can't continue with this "bigger is better" attitude. No building will change the experience of watching the team and I could argue easily that the cramped ARCO is an advantage to the Kings because it is a living hell to the opposition.

Why is that bad?

This simply said the Maloof's haven't talked with these two people. No comment further. Why not?

I would assume that the NEW PLAN would be for an actual new arena instead of a plan to remodel Arco. Because if it was for remodeling, I don't see why they would report it thinking the Maloofs would accept.

Unless they just want to put in some motions to show they did try. But I doubt it. I'm still assuming its to build a new arena, though no one knows why the plans are yet.

 

[JB_kings]

I would assume that the NEW PLAN would be for an actual new arena instead of a plan to remodel Arco. Because if it was for remodeling, I don't see why they would report it thinking the Maloofs would accept.

Unless they just want to put in some motions to show they did try. But I doubt it. I'm still assuming its to build a new arena, though no one knows why the plans are yet.

This is pretty much what I have been trying to say. The retrofit deal last year was rejected. It's already been established. So I'm assuming this one is a different proposal. I guess it's hard for some people to notice the difference or make that assumption that they possibly have another plan. Because I would be the first to call them foolish for even bringing it up again. I'm waiting for details on what this plan is all about.

 

[Glenn]

I would assume that the NEW PLAN would be for an actual new arena instead of a plan to remodel Arco. Because if it was for remodeling, I don't see why they would report it thinking the Maloofs would accept.

Unless they just want to put in some motions to show they did try. But I doubt it. I'm still assuming its to build a new arena, though no one knows why the plans are yet.

Don't get angry at me. What in your first paragraph makes sense. Why is new arena better than a remodel that may actually create something that looks like a new arena.

You weren't part of a discussion involving Jim Les (designer and urban planner) who taught me a lot. There is more to an arena than what you are mentioning. The acceptable standard may have more to do with the needs of the neighborhood than what the NBA wants.

Sigh!!!! Does the NBA require a restaurant, a gear shop, a dance hall, a room for a quickie, a Wolfgand Puck's, custom apparel shops, hamburger joints, etc. What's the standard? As I understand it, an arena can be anything from a self sufficient city to a place like Arco. Can an NBA quality arena be a basketball court surrounded by all the above privately owned businesses? Does the neighborhood help define what should be built?

A little more clear: what beyond a basketball court, nice seats, adequate male and female bathrooms (not in the original design eh, ladies), a hardwood floor and functioning shot clocks, enough beer to keep people in a raucous mood and a little popcorn and nachos defines an NBA quality arena. Point me to the info or tell me and state your sources.

Part of what has made us fans so famous and the place a hell for opposing teams is the fact that Arco is not an NBA quality arena. It is small. Do we have to take away what has made our arena's experience famous? Does the image replace the experience in order of importance?

Does an owner or community have to go broke to satisfy the NBA? We cannot build a Staples Arena and should not.

Shut up Glenn. Anyway, an arena built in Natomas, the original area, should be a self sufficient city. A building built downtown should not.

 

[Superman]

The NBA won't go for a barebones arena. It's all about money. What they make back from sponsorships, vendors and businesses who set up shot in the building more than makes up for the extra expense associated in building the facility. It doesn't have to be Staples Center, but it can't be a box with a hardwood floor and some bleachers, either.

Also, despite all the nonsense inside Staples Center, that building set in motion a major redevelopment in downtown LA that has included business, luxury apartments, restaurants, parking, etc. The businesses inside the arena don't prevent businesses from setting up outside the arena. In fact, Staples Center attracts businesses to the area.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

This is pretty much what I have been trying to say. The retrofit deal last year was rejected. It's already been established. So I'm assuming this one is a different proposal. I guess it's hard for some people to notice the difference or make that assumption that they possibly have another plan. Because I would be the first to call them foolish for even bringing it up again. I'm waiting for details on what this plan is all about.

Yes, another issue I'm wondering.. Why hasn't the Maloofs been in contact with this group? If they were ready to release the new to Crandell and a meeting supposedly could've happened as early as today, how can they not have contacted the Maloofs?

I hate to say it, but someone is lying or not telling the entire story.

 

[Glenn]

The NBA won't go for a barebones arena. It's all about money. What they make back from sponsorships, vendors and businesses who set up shot in the building more than makes up for the extra expense associated in building the facility. It doesn't have to be Staples Center, but it can't be a box with a hardwood floor and some bleachers, either.

Also, despite all the nonsense inside Staples Center, that building set in motion a major redevelopment in downtown LA that has included business, luxury apartments, restaurants, parking, etc. The businesses inside the arena don't prevent businesses from setting up outside the arena. In fact, Staples Center attracts businesses to the area.

This is Sacramento. I understand what you are saying or perhaps, writing, but this is not LA. Downtown LA didn't come alive because of Staples. I didn't know it was dead. It came alive for a good camera shot of Brittney or Paris or Brad or any other silicone injected scantily clad and identifiable female, etc, etc. I am NOT going to hang around anything built in Sacramento for the off chance I can mingle with Jerry Brown.

And, no, I cannot prove anything I just wrote except that this is Sacramento and that is LA.

 

[Glenn]

Yes, another issue I'm wondering.. Why hasn't the Maloofs been in contact with this group? If they were ready to release the new to Crandell and a meeting supposedly could've happened as early as today, how can they not have contacted the Maloofs?

I hate to say it, but someone is lying or not telling the entire story.

We know they haven't talked with two people and after that there was no comment. Have they talked with Angelo or Greg or THE Mr. Spanos. We don't know. No comment.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Don't get angry at me. What in your first paragraph makes sense. Why is new arena better than a remodel that may atually create something that looks like a new arena.

You weren't part of a discussion involving Jim Les (designer and urban planner) who taught me a lot. There is more to an arena than what you are mentioning. The acceptable standard may have more to do with the needs of the neighborhood than what the NBA wants.

Sigh!!!! Does the NBA require a restaurant, a gear shop, a dance hall, a room for a quickie, a Wolfgand Puck's, custom apparel shops, hamburger joints, etc. What's the standard? As I understand it, an arena can be anything from a self sufficient city to a place like Arco. Can an NBA quality arena be a basketball court surrounded by all the above privately owned businesses? Does the neighborhood help define what should be built?

A little more clear: what beyond a basketball court, nice seats, adequate male and female bathrooms (not in the original design eh, ladies), a hardwood floor and functioning shot clocks, enough beer to keep people in a raucous mood and a little popcorn and nachos defines an NBA quality arena. Point me to the info or tell me and state your sources.

Part of what has made us fans so famous and the place a hell for opposing teams is the fact that Arco is not an NBA quality arena. It is small. Do we have to take away what has made our arena's experience famous? Does the image replace the experience in order of importance?

Does an owner or community have to go broke to satisfy the NBA? We cannot build a Staples Arena and should not.

I hear you. And frankly, for most middle class folks who most likely won't be able to afford to dine at the expensive restaurants or hang out in those $20 a cocktail lounges in arenas, it really doesn't matter if those things are there.

Its got to do with what the Maloofs and Stern wants. They are aiming at the big $ and upholding the forward thinking principle. Its sad that ticket prices for Laker games average around $98. Add in parking, a coke and a hot dog, we are looking at $140 on the average for one person to go to 1 game. Who can afford that these day?

The modern day NBA is really built for the rich. At least when it comes to going to games. People here and there have talked about lowering player salaries so the ticket prices can go back down. I'm not sure if the owners will pass on the savings to us though even if they lower the salaries.

 

[hrdboild]

You weren't part of a discussion involving Jim Les who taught me a lot. There is more to an arena than what you are mentioning. The acceptable standard may have more to do with the needs of the neighborhood than what the NBA wants.

Sigh!!!! Does the NBA require a restaurant, a gear shop, a dance hall, a room for a quickie, custom apparel shops, hamburger, joints, etc. What's the standard? As I understand it, an arena can be anything from a self sufficient city to a place like Arco. Can an NBA quality arena be a basketball court surrounded by all the above privately owned businesses? Does the neighborhood help define what should be built?

A little more clear: what beyond a basketball court, nice seats, adequate male and female bathrooms, a hardwood floor and functioning shot clocks, ebnough beer to keep people in a raucous mood and a little popcorn and nachos defines an NBA quality arena. Point me to the info or tell me and state your sources.

Does an owner or community have to go broke to satisfy the NBA?

It's more about competition with the other franchises. If other teams are now pulling in $50 million or more from additional arena amenities like restaurants and luxury boxes, it makes it difficult to compete with them unless you do the same thing. That gives the NBA an excuse to now raise their standard of what is acceptable or required in any new arena deal. It's the Yankee stadium effect. The idea that a sports arena/stadium should be a part of it's community rather than a revenue generating island to itself is dead or dying.

Which is a big reason why it's so hard to get a new arena in Sacramento. Obviously the city is interested in supporting a development of that magnitude if it's going to benefit the city as a whole. But sometimes those interests are at odds. The parking issue that came up before, for instance, is an extension of that same problem. A huge parking structure charging $20 per car per game is a nice boost to the team's bottom line, but public transportation is an overall better option for the city because it's cleaner and doesn't clog up the freeway system.

It's not a very forgiving business. As much as I want the Kings to stay in Sacramento, the reality of the situation is pretty dire. The price of having NBA basketball in your city as gone up astronomically over the past 15 or 20 years. Sacramento doesn't have seemingly unlimited resources like New York or Los Angeles. And anyway, if the price keeps going up, is that price still worth paying? I think it's pretty clear what the majority thinks in this case. And as long as there are other cities like Anaheim who are willing to pay anything to get in the game, David Stern gets to demand whatever he wants.

 

[Superman]

This is Sacramento. I understand what you are saying or perhaps, writing, but this is not LA. Downtown LA didn't come alive because of Staples. I didn't know it was dead. It came alive for a good camera shot of Brittney or Paris or Brad or any other silicone injected scantily clad and identifiable female, etc, etc. I am NOT going to hang around anything built in Sacramento for the off chance I can mingle with Jerry Brown.

And, no, I cannot prove anything I just wrote except that this is Sacramento and that is LA.

That's the thing. Downtown LA DID come alive, and it started with Staples. It may not have been dead, but it was on life support. There was nothing worth mentioning in downtown LA except the Coliseum, the convention center, and the courthouse. It was dark, dangerous, and in vital need of some attention. There's the business district and a few bars and clubs, but it's not this super glamorous mecca like people make it out to be.

The development began with Staples, and is still going on. I hadn't been there in about five years, and went for the car show a few months ago, and was blown away. There's a reason they call it LA Live. To quote Joe Biden, it's a BFD. It's meant a ton to the area.

People don't hang out down there because they might meet someone famous. They hang out down there because there's things to do: restaurants, bars, movie theatres, etc. They used to get in their cars and sit in traffic after a game. Now they go to the ESPN Zone. They'd do the same thing in Sacramento. IF you build it... Don't fall victim to small-time thinking, Glenn.

 

[Glenn]

That's the thing. Downtown LA DID come alive, and it started with Staples. It may not have been dead, but it was on life support. There was nothing worth mentioning in downtown LA except the Coliseum, the convention center, and the courthouse. It was dark, dangerous, and in vital need of some attention. There's the business district and a few bars and clubs, but it's not this super glamorous mecca like people make it out to be.

The development began with Staples, and is still going on. I hadn't been there in about five years, and went for the car show a few months ago, and was blown away. There's a reason they call it LA Live. To quote Joe Biden, it's a BFD. It's meant a ton to the area.

People don't hang out down there because they might meet someone famous. They hang out down there because there's things to do: restaurants, bars, movie theatres, etc. They used to get in their cars and sit in traffic after a game. Now they go to the ESPN Zone. They'd do the same thing in Sacramento. IF you build it... Don't fall victim to small-time thinking, Glenn.

Me? I'm not the small towner in this group. This is Sacramento. Do you believe that a downtown arena will restore the downtown area and people will go there to spend their evenings? There are a lot of ex-military retirees here.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Me? I'm not the small towner in this group. This is Sacramento. Do you believe that a downtown arena will restore the downtown area and people will go there to spend their evenings?

I do, might not happen overnight but it could. LA didn't, I wouldn't go anywhere near Staples when I lived there except to go to Staples or the Convention Center. But having lived in cities with downtown or near downtown easy to access arenas I can say for certain that people tend to stick around before and after and the local businesses thrive.

 

[bajaden]

Gotta disagree with you a little bit. Having been to some other newer arenas, it can make a difference. Las Vegas became a destination city when it totally revamped its product by rewraping it in a family atmosphere. Sacramento should be treated equally with LA or New York when it comes to presentation. You can't have a, go to the back of the bus where you belong attitude. If you've been to Staples, and I have, that arena is the center piece of that part of the downtown area. People arrive early and frequent the resturants and shops, and many stay and hang out at the local pubs in the area. Don't get me wrong, having a good team certainlly helps, but the arena adds to the experience.

 

[Superman]

Me? I'm not the small towner in this group. This is Sacramento. Do you believe that a downtown arena will restore the downtown area and people will go there to spend their evenings? There are a lot of ex-military retirees here.

If you build it...

Like pdx said, it doesn't happen overnight. Took about ten years in downtown LA, as a matter of fact. But it's huge now. And it has nothing to do with Hollywood. LA Live is its own attraction.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Before I moved to LA and was still living in Santa Barbara I went to a show in downtown LA/Staples area. It was a friggin' ghetto and I literally feared for my safety. No, I don't do that regularly and that includes walking the streets of pre-Giuliani Manhattan at 3am or the old combat zone in Boston.

Downtown Sac actually seems to finally have some things going for it last time I was there (for the first time in like ever I could hit 3 or 4 bars that were actually worth being in), but it still needs a draw to get those who aren't in the immediate vicinity to come and stay a while.

 

[Glenn]

Before I moved to LA and was still living in Santa Barbara I went to a show in downtown LA/Staples area. It was a friggin' ghetto and I literally feared for my safety. No, I don't do that regularly and that includes walking the streets of pre-Giuliani Manhattan at 3am or the old combat zone in Boston.

Downtown Sac actually seems to finally have some things going for it last time I was there (for the first time in like ever I could hit 3 or 4 bars that were actually worth being in), but it still needs a draw to get those who aren't in the immediate vicinity to come and stay a while.

Then I think the citizens of Sacramento are damn fools for not doing this. Not being a citizen makes this easy for me to say. The fact I don't live in Sacto and would never go downtown colors my opinions. I am sure it colors the opinions of the majority of fans who just happen to NOT live within the city limits. I don't care how the city does. Build it in Elk Grove. Makes no difference to me.

Is there a game tonight? Are the Kings still playing? I forgot.